Nano-SIM Decision Delayed

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Posted by timothy on Saturday March 31, 2012 @08:11AM from the sir-the-nano-decision-is-huge dept.

judgecorp writes "The decision on the next generation of even-smaller SIM cards for phones and other devices has been delayed by standards body ETSI, and the issue (which should have been settled this week) is nowhere near resolution. Apple wants to trim the existing micro-SIM further, Nokia wants to move to something like a micro-SD card which may involve patents. Meanwhile RIM has complained about Apple's approach."

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Re:Whats wrong with the current SIM? by ScislaC · 2012-03-31 08:24 · Score: 3, Informative

My guess is the amount of space they take up in the phone is the problem. Basically, between the SIM itself and the hardware for reading it, that's a good amount of real estate.

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Fingers by symes · 2012-03-31 08:24 · Score: 4, Insightful

I'm struggling to handle these things with my fat fingers already. And devices are getting so small that you have to wonder whether, if we want any foorm of interaction, we are on the edge of small enough. Now capacity and power, pile it on.
1. Re:Fingers by buybuydandavis · 2012-03-31 08:36 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Maybe that's the point - they don't want *you* to be able to change it yourself. That seems like Apple's style.
  I agree. Micro sim cards are bad enough already. If they get smaller, I'll need tweezers and a jeweler's loop to deal with them.
Why a SIM? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-31 08:26 · Score: 3, Interesting

I'd honestly prefer not to have a SIM and do some form of activation either OTA (over the air) or tethered. I do see the benefit of a card that can be swapped for obvious reasons such as going to a water park (where you take the ultra cheap, who cares if it dies phone), or travelling to a different country where you might buy a prepaid SIM on a local carrier. However we should be able to solve that OTA in some fashion. Perhaps the phones come up with the ability to connect to a clearing house for personalization similar to how they come up able to make emergency services calls? Enter your credentials and they get hashed and sent to the service which then presents back your options "activate device on existing plan, disabling existing phone", "purchase a travel pre-paid account", etc. Why must we have physical cards to prove identity?
1. Re:Why a SIM? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-31 08:35 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Because without a separate card, you get the Verizon/Sprint problem of refusing to activate devices that don't exist in their ESN database; i.e. devices that they didn't sell themselves at markup on extended contract. The SIM standard at least gives the telcos a (semi?)-secure method of identifying subscribers for billing purposes, while keeping them out of the business of dictating which devices are allowed on the network.
The real problem isn't that they are too big by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-31 08:35 · Score: 2, Interesting

It's that they aren't very usefull. Give them a bit more storage capacity, and make a proper, full-featured, standardized format for storing contact data and the like on it. Last time I moved a sim card from one phone to another, I ended up having to manually edit all of the contact details to fix things because phone manufacturers can't get their shit together.
Why do we even have SIM cards at all? by wanderfowl · 2012-03-31 08:37 · Score: 2

Why do we even have SIM cards at all? My impression is that they're basically read-only storage for a set of identifiers/credentials used by the carrier. Why not just allow the customer or company to input/transfer those credentials as needed? Or just allow a customer to fire up a new phone, input a username and password for their account, and then have the phone download the information needed to some bit of internal storage?
I'm actually asking, as I honestly don't know. What does the continued existence of a read-only SIM card which must be inserted into the phone win us?
1. Re:Why do we even have SIM cards at all? by msobkow · 2012-03-31 08:41 · Score: 2
  
  Plain and simple: to prevent fraud and impersonation.
  With a physical component, there is a 1:1 relationship between the phone and the account, give or take some swapping around. So you know who owns the SIM and who is to be billed.
  If you use software/configuration downloads, there's a significant potential for phone fraud, with people "hacking" your ID info and using it to get "free calls" at your expense.
  
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2. Re:Why do we even have SIM cards at all? by SuricouRaven · 2012-03-31 08:49 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  The SIM isn't just a memory card. It also has onboard processing. Not much, but just enough to perform a handshake: The network actually authenticates the SIM itsself, with the phone just acting as a network interface and power supply. That way it is practically impossible to clone a SIM (There are ways, but they are far beyond the abilities of even most specialists in the field). As for why they are used, it's a regulatory thing intended to decouple the network operators from control of the devices, which could be seen as a conflict of interest or as a way to prevent customers from moving to a new operator (If they couldn't just move the SIM, they'd have to buy a completly new device).
3. Re:Why do we even have SIM cards at all? by TheRaven64 · 2012-03-31 10:03 · Score: 2
  
  Why can't this be done via software programming? Just upload a data file to your phone.
  Security. If it's just a file, then you compromise the OS and you can copy it. Then you can just copy it to another phone and start running up that user's phone bill. With a SIM, you need physical access to the phone to clone it.
  
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4. Re:Why do we even have SIM cards at all? by YoopDaDum · 2012-03-31 10:14 · Score: 2
  
  It's not read-only, the SIM content is upgradable over the air using the SIM Toolkit system. It's a protocol allowing the SIM, which is a small computer (can be programmed in Java nowadays, see the JavaCard specs), to talk to a provisioning system in the operator backbone through the modem, independently of any support on the phone application processor.
  
  In addition to the private user credentials, the SIM also contains some operator private information like roaming partner operators and their priority/preference order, and information driving the network selection process. Operators want to keep all this confidential. So operators that can control the full phone (common in the US) may not care about a SIM. But if they can't control the phone, because some users can buy unlocked phones on their own, then the SIM becomes useful. It allows the operator keeping all this information private as the SIM is secure. And the SIM belongs and is chosen by the operator itself, so they can trust it.
5. Re:Why do we even have SIM cards at all? by Whuffo · 2012-03-31 17:47 · Score: 2
  
  The ability to switch out SIM cards is actually quite useful. But those who think that America is the whole world won't understand that.
  I live in Asia; we've got a larger population than the US, and many, many more cell phones. They're all GSM phones and every one has a SIM card (or two, maybe three).
  Here's how it comes in handy: cell carrier X decides that all calls to customers on cell carrier X are free. What if you're a customer of cell carrier Y? Just swap in a X SIM; they're available everywhere for a buck or so. Need to make a long call to someone on carrier Z? Swap the SIM and away you go.
  That's called "freedom of choice" - too bad that Americans have forgotten about it. We pay about $5 per month for our cell service - why are you paying so much for the same thing on a locked down phone with a two year contract?
  When they tell you that it costs that much to provide the service they're lying to you. It actually costs that much to provide the service, and also provide an ultra-luxurious lifestyle to the executives of the cell phone company.
Re:Fuck Apple. by DurendalMac · 2012-03-31 08:41 · Score: 4, Insightful

Yeah, fuck Apple! They're trying to get a royalty-free standard for a tiny SIM card established! How dare they!
Re:Slashdot hypocrites by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2012-03-31 08:42 · Score: 4, Informative

Tme for all the hypocrites to come out against apple who is offering a free, perpetual license for the relevant patents, in favor of those who won't do the same, only because they have an irrational hatred of apple. Just look at the first post.
The are offering a 'free' license only to anyone who licenses their patents under the same conditions. That's not really 'free' that's 'Apple is tired of getting charged license fees by people who've been doing phone R&D rather longer than they have'...
Re:Slashdot hypocrites by DurendalMac · 2012-03-31 08:43 · Score: 2, Funny

Yeah, fuck Apple because a bunch of unfounded speculation!
Re:Fuck Apple. by erroneus · 2012-03-31 08:49 · Score: 4, Interesting

Except that Apple didn't do anything except trim down the current version of the SIM card leaving only the metal contacts. There's nothing in the proposal by Apple that Apple actually created. They are essentially saying "I'll license 'trimming a normal SIM down to size with a razor blade' for free! All we ask is that you offer the same deal if your proposal is adopted."
It's... weird.
Of course it's "royalty free." There's nothing about it which is worthy of collecting any royalties.
Re:Fuck Apple. by DurendalMac · 2012-03-31 08:52 · Score: 3, Insightful

I'm not saying that it isn't just a trimming of the normal SIM, but Christ, they probably could try to get royalties on it some way if they wanted to, which is sad, but that's the state of the business. Even if it is just a trimming, well, it's a smaller SIM, which means more room in smartphones for battery or other goodies. Sounds good to me.
Re:Slashdot hypocrites by willy_me · 2012-03-31 08:57 · Score: 3, Informative

The are offering a 'free' license only to anyone who licenses their patents under the same conditions. That's not really 'free' that's 'Apple is tired of getting charged license fees by people who've been doing phone R&D rather longer than they have'...
Not really, they are offering the design for 'free' to the standards committee so long as all others with possible patents covering the design do the same. If they get their way, anybody who wants to utilize a the new standard would be free of licensing costs. In no way is Apple trying to get a free ride, they want the ride to be free for everyone.
Re:Slashdot hypocrites by TheRaven64 · 2012-03-31 09:04 · Score: 3, Informative

Do you have any idea how irrelevant that amount of space is? The standard Mini-SIM is 25x15mm. It's tiny. The Micro-SIM is 15x12mm. It's about as small as it can be without getting lost instantly when you remove it from the phone. The Nano-SIM is 12x9mm. Your phone would save 6x12x0.76mm. A typical smartphone has far more wasted space than that in various places. For applications where that much space actually is important, there is the embedded SIM, which is only 5x6mm.

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Re:Fuck Apple. by narcc · 2012-03-31 09:04 · Score: 3, Interesting

The space trade-off isn't significant.
Tiny SIM's do punish people who use multiple SIM's, common in the third-world. If you're going to trim down the SIM, you'd better use that space to add extra spots for SIM cards!

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Re:Whats wrong with the current SIM? by icebike · 2012-03-31 09:13 · Score: 5, Interesting

My guess is the amount of space they take up in the phone is the problem. Basically, between the SIM itself and the hardware for reading it, that's a good amount of real estate.
Exactly.
But the problem is the insane rush to thinness. Devices are already too thin, and making them thinner just makes them harder to use, hold, and keep rigid enough to prevent glass breakage.
The problem is that current battery technology wants to be in regular shapes, and in order to allow for a sim socket you have to surrender the entire width of the phone even though the sim only takes a portion of that width. I suspect Apple would like to insert the sim in a slot that sits perpendicular to the slab. These nano-sims are also thinner.
Molded batteries would allow the use of irregular areas inside of a device, and such batteries could better use empty space.
Linear sims (toothpick) are another possible design. The phone need only read them upon insertion via a collar around the insertion hole. Nobody bothers to write to the sim any more.

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Re:Slashdot hypocrites by Richard_at_work · 2012-03-31 09:52 · Score: 2

And as the "new standard" is little more than a smaller version of the "current standard" (read the proposals), Apple looks like they are trying to do an end run around the other patent holders and get a nice license from them for free...
Re:Whats wrong with the current SIM? by Gerzel · 2012-03-31 10:55 · Score: 2

The point is to make you buy a second phone rather than trade out sims.
Ideally companies like Apple will make a brighter future where the physical hardware of a phone is connected to a contract seamlessly and the only way to change things is to by a whole new unit.
Re:Fuck Apple. by milkmage · 2012-03-31 11:11 · Score: 3, Insightful

true, but it does make it so any FRAND licensing from the IP holders for current SIM tech becomes worthless.
http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/03/apples-us-patent-application-61481114.html
As long as Nokia adheres to FRAND licensing obligations, the Finnish company's position that it wants to cash in on its SIM card-related patents is just as legitimate, from a shareholder value point of view, as Apple's proposal that everyone adopt a royalty-free standard. But Nokia's desire to monetize standard-essential patents is not in the public interest unless its proposal offers major advantages that offset the cost of licensing and the higher transaction cost (which in connection with FRAND patents sometimes involves litigation as I see all the time now).
Nokia could really use the money. no wonder they're fighting against it.. even pomoting their own "standard" which I'm sure they have no intentions of giving away. RIM is also against the nano-SIM - wonder why.. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-29/rim-earnings-sales-fall-short-as-blackberry-demand-wanes.html