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Statistical Analysis Raises Civil War Death Count By 20%

Hugh Pickens writes "For more than a century, it has been accepted that about 620,000 Americans died in the the bloodiest, most devastating conflict in American history. But now, BBC reports that historian J. David Hacker has used sophisticated statistical software to determine the war's death toll and found that civil war dead may have been undercounted by as many as 130,000. Hacker began by taking digitized samples from the decennial census counts taken from 1850-1880. Using statistical package SPSS, Hacker counted the number of native-born white men of military age in 1860 and determined how many of that group were still alive in 1870 and compared that survival rate with the survival rates of the men of the same ages from 1850-1860, and from 1870-1880 — the 10-year census periods before and after the Civil War. The calculations yielded the number of 'excess' deaths of military-age men between 1860-1870 — the number who died in the war or in the five subsequent years from causes related to the war. Hacker's findings, published in the December 2011 issue of Civil War History, have been endorsed by some of the leading historians of the conflict. 'The difference between the two estimates is large enough to change the way we look at the war,' writes Hacker. 'The war touched more lives and communities more deeply than we thought, and thus shaped the course of the ensuing decades of American history in ways we have not yet fully grasped. True, the war was terrible in either case. But just how terrible, and just how extensive its consequences, can only be known when we have a better count of the Civil War dead.'"

10 of 139 comments (clear)

  1. Either way by Andtalath · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Shitloads died.
    Let's focus on why it happened and how to prevent things like it to happen again.

    Like, for instance, the government not being hellbent on forcing it's will above the states.

    Not even written like an american, but as a person who saw what government trying to force it's will down upon unwilling states resulted in.

    And, yeah, the same thing is happening right now, both in Europe and in USA.

    1. Re:Either way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Shitloads died.
      Let's focus on why it happened and how to prevent things like it to happen again.

      Like, for instance, the government not being hellbent on forcing it's will above the states.

      Not even written like an american, but as a person who saw what government trying to force it's will down upon unwilling states resulted in.

      And, yeah, the same thing is happening right now, both in Europe and in USA.

      Some things are worth "being hellbent on".

      Like eliminating slavery.

      And all you "state's rights" morons can crawl back down into your hole. Because the "state's right" in question was the state's right to allow its citizens to own slaves.

    2. Re:Either way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oversimplifying does nobody any good.

      The right they were notionally fighting for was the right to secede.

      They wanted to secede for reasons pertaining to slavery, but not because the North was going to abolish slavery (at that point, they didn't have the numbers in Congress to do so); it was because new territories were being permitted to self-determine whether to be slave or free -- whereas the South wanted a forced one-for-one, to keep free states from getting the upper hand in Congress. In reality, this is obviously an anti-states'-rights position. (Naturally, it says something about the flimsiness of one's justifications when the only way to have people not oppose you is to forcibly impose your supposedly reasonable system on them from the beginning...)

      So, when you look at the whole picture, instead of your one-sentence simplification, the South wasn't principally motivated by a States' Rights ideal, and it's as unreasonable to hold their taint against States' Rights (including the right to secede), as to hold, say, Nixon against Democracy. In both cases, people with evil motives seized whatever justification was convenient to promote their evil ends.

    3. Re:Either way by stud9920 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, it would suck for people with 'problems' born in the wrong part of the country, but with 50 states you would have an option to move to likeminded area.

      *cough* Dredd Scott
      *cough* Fugitive Slave Act
      This being said, the South seceded BEFORE any of the state's rights were infringed, and they attacked Fort Sumter where, objectively, there were plenty diplomatic solutions available before firing a single cannonball. And anyway, it was not intended at that stage to abolish slavery; this only came as a way to wage total war two years later.

  2. Re:And so history becomes a science by u38cg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think it would be fairer to say systematically misunderstood. As soon as any project becomes even moderately complex, understanding causes of loss can become difficult.

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    [FUCK BETA]
  3. Re:Count still too low? by u38cg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The approach was a pretty sound one; take census counts before and afterwards, calculate the expected joiners (through aging and immigration) and leavers (through death, aging, and emigration), and then compare with the second count. We have enough knowledge to do this pretty accurately for a large population, so the death estimates should be pretty tight.

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    [FUCK BETA]
  4. Re:And so history becomes a science by HBI · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I actually dislike this kind of numeric analysis. I don't think it is appropriate for history. So there are 'missing people' from the 1860s...those missing people could easily have gone to Canada or Mexico. They could have emigrated to Europe. They could have headed out West and been out of touch with US authorities for years at a time, missing censuses and the like. They certainly had motivation to flee...there was a huge war with drafts on both sides going on, why not head out?

    This study is certainly using census data, with all of its warts and flaws.

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    HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
  5. Numerical analysis not appropriate? by Kupfernigk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, you are entitled to your opinion. But as the analysis did its best to allow for immigration and emigration, and did comparisons with other periods, your argument needs a bit more beef than "dislike". In my own field of interest, naval history, things like manning levels, pay rates, construction, weights of shot, water capacity, access to navigational equipment and the like turn out to be far better predictors of outcomes than the "Great Man" ideas of historians of the past. The outcome of the Battle of Britain was almost entirely determined by engineering factors - radar, and the fact that the British fighters were developed a little later than the German ones and so benefited from better engineering. The massacres in Rwanda and El Salvador can be better understood by analysing population density, land use and economic power than by speculation over tribal or political conflict. Proper statistical analysis of history - not numeric analysis, whatever that is - is not only illuminating in itself but could eventually give models with predictive power.

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    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:Numerical analysis not appropriate? by wfolta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, it appears that the study did a reasonable job, and its findings jibe with the opinions of many historians that deaths were undercounted.

      At the same time, a one-off historical event is not quite the same as a physics experiment, or chemistry, or even psychology. Exactly what other time period or event could you compare the Civil War to in order to estimate war-time emigration/immigration rates? Doesn't seem like you can control very well for that. Considering the enormity of 600,000 dying, the scorched-earth tactics of the Union, draft riots, etc, I doubt that there really is a comparable, well-documented period to be found.

      Also, I can't find the actual article, but the press didn't report any error margins, which might in fact be huge. (Not even sure how accurate those estimates would be.) If you know anything about statistics, a number with no error margins (confidence intervals, whatever you call them) is meaningless.

      The fact that the press talks about a "sophisticated statistics package" is a red flag, but it may be due to reporters and not the actual study. (You can easily obtain, for free, a statistical package that can do whatever calculations they did. It's not the package that matters, it's the skill of the analyst.)

      Yes, statistics and modeling can be useful in any field. But your unbridled enthusiasm isn't warranted. As you point out, in the past historians have had pet theories that were essentially Appeals to Authority (i.e. "I'm a famous historian and this is what I think"), but you have to be careful of the other side of the Appeal to Authority coin: "I used a sophisticated statistics tool to prove ...".

  6. But your unbridled enthusiasm by Kupfernigk · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Straw man? I was responding to someone who objects to statistical analysis on the highly logical grounds that (s)he "dislikes" it and thinks it "inappropriate", and was trying to put the other side a bit.

    I think it was Jay Gould (and if not I apologise to his shade) who observed that the usual distinction between "hard" and "soft" science is completely backward. Physics advanced faster than chemistry, and chemistry faster than biology, because in fact it is physics that is "not-hard", and especially the social sciences and economics that are very hard indeed. We had a model of dynamics that was "good enough" by 1700AD, but the causes of infectious diseases wouldn't be understood for roughly another 150 years. (We've just seen what happens when a load of bankers think physicists are capable of writing financial models).

    However, as the originators of CERN would probably agree, because something is difficult is not a reason not to try it.

    In my own experience, most of the people who object to statistical modeling do so because the results confound cherished beliefs. For instance, the arts graduates who run the British Home Office despise statistics because so many studies have shown that their approaches to crime don't work, and don't want to know about medical and psychological studies of the effects of various drugs because the results do not suit the agenda of the Daily Mail and the drinks companies. During WW2, the High Command of the RAF had a statistical wing that was demonstrating that (a) carpet bombing was a failure and (b) air crews did not become safer with experience. So what did they do? Ignored them, of course. But that is all the more reason why they should be done, and done as rigorously as possible.

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    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."