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Why Drones Could Be the Future of Missile Defense

An anonymous reader writes "With North Korea's failed missile launch Friday, it is clear many nations around the globe are attempting to acquire missiles that can carry larger payloads and go further. Such moves have made the United States and its allies very nervous. Missile defense has been debated since the 1980's with such debate back once again the headlines. Most missile defense platforms have technical issues and are very expensive. One idea: use drones instead. '... a high-speed (~3.5 to 5.0 km/s), two-stage, hit-to-kill interceptor missile, launched from a Predator-type UAV can defeat many of these ballistic missile threats in their boost phase.' Could a Drone really take down a North Korea missile? 'A physics-based simulator can estimate the capabilities of a high-altitude, long endurance UAV-launched boost-phase interceptor (HALE BPI) launched from an altitude of approximately 60,000 feet. Enabled by the revolution in UAVs, this proposed boost-phase interceptor, based on off-the-shelf technology, can be deployed in operationally feasible stations on the periphery of North Korea.'"

44 of 167 comments (clear)

  1. SBX-1 by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not a drone, but the US Navy's Sea-based X-band RADAR (SBX-1) — a completely self-propelled (max speed: 8 knots), semi-submersible modified oil platform designed for use in high winds and heavy seas — is also part of the Missile Defense Agency's Ballistic Missile Defense System. It can track an object the size of a baseball from about 3000 miles away. SBX-1 sailed to the region to monitor the North Korean launch:

    http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/29/navy-ships-out-radar-system-ahead-of-north-korea-launch/

    A brief history of SBX-1 — great pictures: http://www.mda.mil/global/documents/pdf/sbx_booklet.pdf

    1. Re:SBX-1 by PPH · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It can track an object the size of a baseball from about 3000 miles away.

      How many baseballs can it track at one time? And once it has figured out which are the real baseballs and which are fake*, how quickly interceptors be launched after the real ones?

      *The details of which are highly classified. Because dummys and countermeasures are dirt cheap compared to the discrimination technology. Once you know what the SBX-1 is looking for, ICBM payloads can be updated inexpensively. And they are classified because we have publicly demonstrated how well we can see all this space junk. And how well we can shoot a piece of it down. But funding would be at risk should the public realize that an important piece in the middle is missing.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:SBX-1 by daveschroeder · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Quite right.

      And you've also demonstrated, even if not your intent, quite well why secrets are necessary, even in open and democratic societies — not to keep them from our own citizens, but to prevent adversaries from understanding our capabilities, techniques, sources, and methods.

    3. Re:SBX-1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
    4. Re:SBX-1 by PPH · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We can hope that those granted the clearance to perform the necessary oversight are honest enough to tell us the truth: Whether or not this missile defense system actually works. Without telling us how or showing us the evidence. I'd have more faith in them if their political lives didn't depend on repeated cash infusions from the very companies that build the stuff that may or may not work.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    5. Re:SBX-1 by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not to mention how long can you feed the thing gas? The wiki says that pig is sucking down on SIX 3.6Mw generators and there are plans to add two more of those hogs on top of those 6. i'm sorry but if there were EVER a case for nuclear power that giant power hog would be it. if we were in an actual war situation how long would we be able to keep feeding that thing with all the other fuel needs of the country and military?

      While i think drones are a good idea that thing is just too much of a piggy on conventional fuel. Instead we need more like that giant flying wing NASA was showing off, something solar powered that can stay up for weeks on end. park those suckers over anyone like NK that you are worried about, but sucking down as much gas as that oil rig radar? i just don't see that as a long term viable system, not with the cost of oil rising.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    6. Re:SBX-1 by deanklear · · Score: 2

      "One great engine to affect this in America would be a large standing army, maintained out of our own pockets, to be at the devotion of our oppressors. This would be introduced under pretext of defending us, but, in fact, to make our bondage and misery complete."

      --Alexander Hamilton

    7. Re:SBX-1 by Baloroth · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As for how many, the Aegis Radar system can track 100+, and this system is based on that, so at the very least it should be able to track a hundred of so. Realistically, if more than 100 missiles get launched, they would never be able to be shot down in time. An ABM shield is currently only useful against an accidental, terrorist, or rogue launch of under a few dozen missiles: any more and no missile-based defense system is going to be able to stop it.

      As far as interceptors go, it would be launching Patriot missiles, and the US has over 1000 launchers for them in service, so taking out a half-dozen missiles wouldn't really be a challenge. Again, in the case of a major launch by China or Russia, no missile shield even close to being built is going to do anything at all to stop it.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    8. Re:SBX-1 by PPH · · Score: 2

      You're missing the point of catching the ICBM during the boost phase.

      Oh, we can see it during boost phase well enough. But with a mid-course interception missile system, we'll also watch one booster separate into dozens of who knows what before we can reach them. And then, what is what? Hence the need for viable boost phase interception. The airborne laser was one approach. Hit it while its still one piece and blindingly obvious what it is (no high tech X band radar needed here to spot the rockets). The airborne laser is (was) expensive. And fragile. 747s are easy to knock down in those parts.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    9. Re:SBX-1 by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

      Anytime drones come up, I usually see a "so I just whip out my Glock19 and have some target practice" response from the peanut gallery. I just found this, suggesting that you'd better have more than one clip, and a clear field behind the target, if you really want to take a small drone down from any distance.

      Missile defense has been debated since before there were practical missiles. It was a particularly hot topic in the late '60s, with the conclusion at the time very similar to the result demonstrated in the video - hitting moving targets is hard.

      Patriot missile batteries and similar have given a credible demonstration of missile defense, but the defensive missile is usually far more expensive to develop, build and deploy than the offensive missile it can effectively defend against.

      The article seems focused on using drones as a high endurance mobile defensive missile deployment platform, which they doubtlessly can be... what I'm far more worried about is North Korea developing and deploying a cargo ship launchable drone large enough to carry a nuclear weapon, I'm not sure the US Navy has enough coverage to scan every incoming commercial vessel for nukes before they get within striking range of the coast. And, with all the Air Force base closures, air to air response time to take out a drone that you may not detect until minutes before landfall is.... less than comforting.

    10. Re:SBX-1 by jafiwam · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The drones are not just tracking during the boost phase, they are killing the target during the boost phase. Which is nice, because it falls right back down near or on the folks that launched it. Your bloviating about other stages of flight are meaningless because you clearly did not understand what the discussion is about.

      Anyway, a boost-phase intercept is tricky because of the need to get the intercept vehicle there fast. That problem could be solved with a beam-weapon or by moving the intercept vehicle to a stand-off position much closer to the launch point. Thus, the drone equipped with it.

      I have the feeling the 747 you think you know about is only the tip of the iceberg, it isn't used anymore because as a proof of concept, it worked poorly. However, it worked. The rest is engineering.

    11. Re:SBX-1 by PPH · · Score: 3, Informative

      Decoys of warheads are for the re-entry phase.

      Decoys don't work during re-entry. Chaff, mylar balloons and lightweight dummies won't survive atmospheric drag.

      Decoys are useful during the mid course 'coast', after the booster stages have separated but before warheads return to the atmosphere. Just after booster separation, it is possible to maneuver warheads to a small degree. This allows independent targeting by warheads from a single missile (MIRVs). Its also possible to spread some decoys between them so as to make mid-course interception more difficult as well as obfuscate the identity of the actual targets and confuse terminal defense systems (if any).

      Mid course is where the SBX-1 and GMD are expected to work.

      The re-entry phase is the trickiest to defend against. Warheads are moving fast and may not be differentiated from decoys until they hit the atmosphere. From this point, there may only be seconds until a warhead reaches its target. And in those seconds, defense systems need acquire their target, calculate trajectories and the ABMs accelerated to target. If the targets are 'hard targets' (missile silos, bunkers, etc.) the job is somewhat easier in that the warhead must strike within a few hundred yards laterally and at a low altitude. This gives ABM systems a smaller footprint to protect and a shorter flight to target. Populations targets are large and can be attacked with high altitude blasts. So terminal ABM systems have to get up higher, cover larger areas and have much less decision time to work with. Guess which types of targets North Korea will most likely select.

      In general, the sooner you can knock an ICBM down, the easier a job it is. Knocking them out in their silos is best.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    12. Re:SBX-1 by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      That's not the gas to move the thing, read the wiki its just the gas to run the fricking radar dome! At least with your jet aircraft once it gets to the area it can use missiles without using more fuel to fire it but with this thing with every single second of use, even when its just parked, its literally blasting through pounds of fuel per minute....and THIS is supposed to be what we use in case of a war with a power that has enough tech to launch multiple MIRVs at us? How are you gonna feed this thing?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  2. International Airspace/Space/Waters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    It looks like that will be the new battleground.

    We will be staring at a future where we have crowded areas outside countries where international law allows activities, but those activities are expressly designed to create a defensive blockade around a particular country. As the original poster has said, the cost for a semi-autonomous blockade is becoming lower and lower.

    While I don't have sufficient understanding of international law, nor the science fiction authors that most likely have talked about these in the past. I expect a future where we have major battles, skirmishes and wars not about sovereign land and rights, but about operations within international spaces.

    The endpoint I can see as one of two places. Lots of "badland" style scenarios where nations cannot operate outside connected national corridors, or rewriting of international reducing the international areas in favour of a larger buffer.

    Our rock is now getting a lot smaller.

  3. Parent post written by anti-US propagandist by daveschroeder · · Score: 3, Informative

    Missile defense, as the name implies, _is_ defensive. It gives _us_ the advantage, which is a good thing — unless, of course, you don't want us to have that advantage.

    1. Re:Parent post written by anti-US propagandist by sideslash · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you are so indoctrinated into "USA USA USA USA..." that you cannot see how this is a bad thing, well there is probably no hope for you, nor point in trying to have a conversation with you.

      I

      Clearly, parent was vaporized by a nuclear weapon in mid-sentence. Maybe even a "nukular" one launched by rednecks. RIP AC.

    2. Re:Parent post written by anti-US propagandist by vux984 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The major powers already have enough offensive to destroy anyone else.

      However, they can't use it because of mutual assured destruction. Or put another way, they can use it, but the retaliation would be too devasting to contemplate.

      On the defense side, a missle defense system disables the enemies ability to first strike on us. This is a good thing, and is the defensive aspect to a missile defense system.

      However, a missile defense system disables the opponents ability to retaliate our first strike, and is a crucial element to enabling us to first strike with impunity. That is a very VERY offensive element to missle defense systems.

      That said, we still should participate in the missile defense race, it would be beyond foolish to let our opponents develop missile defense while we have none.

      However, the humanist in me would argue that the minute we developed strategic missile defense that we should give it away. The world will be a better place if NOBODY can first strike on anyone.

      The world will not be a better place if any nation, including the US, can first strike with impunity.

    3. Re:Parent post written by anti-US propagandist by daveschroeder · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, I understand all too well. The doctrinal notion of MAD, even if absurd, only works when your enemy fears or cares about destruction (as we do).

      To paraphrase The Peacemaker, I'm not afraid of the man who wants a hundred nuclear weapons — I'm terrified of the man who only wants one.

    4. Re:Parent post written by anti-US propagandist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, It is not defensive when its presence is the only way a nuclear first strike would be contemplated.

      nuke = can't use as first strike weapon without risk of destruction of self by retaliatory strike.
      "missile defense" = now I can use nuke as first strike weapon without concern of retaliatory strike.
      "missile defense" is a first strike weapon
      QED

      If someone in the US government thinks he can use nukes without consequences of a counter-strike, he might actually vaporize a few million people, set off a chain of events that results in nuclear winter which wipes out many millions more-- even you.

      If you are so indoctrinated into "USA USA USA USA..." that you cannot see how this is a bad thing, well there is probably no hope for you, nor point in trying to have a conversation with you.

    5. Re:Parent post written by anti-US propagandist by HornWumpus · · Score: 2, Funny

      Do I worry you? I want three!

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    6. Re:Parent post written by anti-US propagandist by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Two of the biggest cold warriors in history, Nixon and Brezhnev, decided that missile defense systems were a Really Bad Idea (TM). Down the road of "missile missile anti missile missile" madness lies. Unilateral changes in these kinds of policies are very unwelcome and destabilizing. Imagine the US reaction if China started to pursue this sort of technology.

    7. Re:Parent post written by anti-US propagandist by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      However, a missile defense system disables the opponents ability to retaliate our first strike, and is a crucial element to enabling us to first strike with impunity.

      Only if you are sure it is going to work 100% perfectly... Or maybe 98% perfectly if you are willing to accept a few cities and millions of deaths as acceptable losses. Against an opponent with many missiles a missile defence isn't that useful.

      Against countries with only a few missiles though it is viable. So given that it would probably be best not to develop missile defence systems because it will only force countries like North Korea to build larger and larger arsenals to defend themselves against the US, while affording the US itself no real protection.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:Parent post written by anti-US propagandist by Darth+Snowshoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      However, a missile defense system disables the opponents ability to retaliate our first strike, and is a crucial element to enabling us to first strike with impunity. That is a very VERY offensive element to missle defense systems.

      Nobody wants to risk everything on a worldwide missle defense system that's never been operationally tested. Nobody wants to live in a world where several other continents have been nuked into radioactive ash. Believe me, the people planning and building missle defense systems sincerely hope that they never have to be used. Nobody's imagining it as an enabler for a first-strike capability.

    9. Re:Parent post written by anti-US propagandist by RajivSLK · · Score: 3, Informative

      Exactly. Close 100% of North Korean GDP is going towards military uses whether the US has missile defense or not. Forcing North Korea to use up a large part of that budget building a larger, yet less effective, arsenal is a win.

    10. Re:Parent post written by anti-US propagandist by poity · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I find these rebuttals humorous in the sense that opposition to missile defense comes in two opposing forms: 1) missile defense should not be implemented because it is a waste of money since it is such an immature a technology that even if widely implemented a few MIRVs can still penetrate, and 2) missile defense should not be implemented because such an effective shield would make the shield bearer more willing to nuke another country.

      In criticizing ballistic missile defense, these systems are made out to be at once completely ineffective and completely effective. I think this contradiction points to a conclusion somewhere in the middle: that ballistic missile defense partially effective, and that it really has only one use, which is to safe guard against errant launches and rogue groups in possession of at most a handful of missiles. In other words, it fails as a strategic threat.

      This is why, in addition to the US, Russia and China, along with many regional powers around the world, have active anti missile systems in place, and why the US isn't moving against existing or new systems in those countries (which it would if it in fact wanted to "strike with impunity").

      --
      your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    11. Re:Parent post written by anti-US propagandist by hey! · · Score: 2

      This whole "defensive==good, offensive==bad" assumption is ridiculous. You can't separate one from the other.

      Let's say your country is threatened by another country with nukes. You obtain your own nukes and delivery systems, which are *offensive*, but they accomplish a defensive goal: to prevent an attack. Now let's say you've got your MAD scenario going, and you somehow obtain completely effective missile defense. You have now gained an *offensive* capability: the ability to strike without fear of consequences.

      So in strategy, you can't separate offense and defense, at least so far as saying defensive weapons are automatically benign and offensive weapons are automatically evil. You have to look at the state of affairs before and after acquiring the weapons in question.

      Let's examine the assumption that missile defense is evil, because it destabilizes the strategic situation; Russia is more likely to choose to shoot first because it's use it or lose it. Fair enough, but does that mean boost phase anti-missile capability is destabilizing? Not necessarily. Arguably it reduces the incentive for a country like Iran to obtain a small nuclear arsenal and the associated delivery systems, because the political losses won't be offset by strategic gains.

      That of course assumes you've got other means of delivering nuclear weapons covered: commercial shipping, drone boats (like drug dealers use), even commercial airliners. The problem with strategy is that opponents don't just give up when you block one avenue of attack.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    12. Re:Parent post written by anti-US propagandist by Cigarra · · Score: 2

      How infinitely arrogant one has to be to decide their "enemies" are not even capable of acting rationally.

      --
      I don't have a sig.
    13. Re:Parent post written by anti-US propagandist by DesScorp · · Score: 3, Informative

      How infinitely arrogant one has to be to decide their "enemies" are not even capable of acting rationally.

      Some aren't. It wasn't very rational for Hitler to start a two-front war. Seemed like a great idea to him, though.

      --
      Life is hard, and the world is cruel
    14. Re:Parent post written by anti-US propagandist by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

      Is it time for the "Mineshaft Gap" speech yet?

    15. Re:Parent post written by anti-US propagandist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "The major powers already have enough offensive to destroy anyone else."

      Not true and it shows your blind spot on the subject. If you only view Russia, a single possible enemy, as the intended target. We are dangerously low, if not below the threshold, of not being able to strike every military target of interest. Just military targets mind you. The reality of today, with many decades of understanding the threat of nuclear weapons many people have built nuclear secure complexes that are large weapon sinks if you want to try and brute force their destruction with nuclear weapons. For starters, you should research Yamantau mountain. Try to figure out how many weapons it would take to penetrate this one facility and guarantee destruction. Now start to multiply by how many such facilities might exist. The last estimate I saw was 200 such facilities in Russia, and that was old. Look at the size of our stockpile. Suddenly it doesn't look so big.

      Multiple enemies? We do not have the weapons to do that, sir. You gotta make more, or use conventional stuff. In the reality of nuclear war, without underground production facilities (AFAIK we don't have those) we will be incapable of producing more. You get what you brought, and nothing more (hence the desire for stockpiles).

      As for our stockpiles, we have many weapons on standby. The MX system (the best in the US) was dismantled under the Bush administration and is currently in storage an uncomfortable distance from my house (a primary and relatively easy target). We have a sizable Minute Man force, and our subs, 50% of which we keep in port by mindless self directive. Otherwise we depend on our bombers. The deployed forces or could-be-deployed in hours (subs and planes) are sizable, but we're dangerously close to being incapable of MAD, if not already below the threshold, with our principle possible opponent, ignoring other possibilities (like, say, China). Also, if you research the tech and the policies, it also means that most of our primary nuclear weapons are sitting in known locations, an interesting anti-thesis to our reliance on stealth and evasion for many of our expensive and important gear.

      Make of it what you will, but, our policy and planning trajectories have been moving away from MAD for a long time now. Does that make nuclear war more likely or less likely?

    16. Re:Parent post written by anti-US propagandist by Alex+Belits · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Do your homework. Do you remember what happened to the Soviet Union? They did produce a large amount of excellent hardware but ultimately they could not keep up economically.

      Except it's a myth created to justify the excesses of US military-industrial comples. Military-related production was very cheap in USSR because government owned it directly and ran it, just like the rest of the economy, as a giant nonprofit. At the same time US was stuffing the pockets of military contractors with profits, and now continues so under pretenses of fighting Muslim terrorism and similar bogeymen.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    17. Re:Parent post written by anti-US propagandist by Alex+Belits · · Score: 3, Funny

      All governments are rational actors. Even those, your propaganda paints as irrational ones. If they were not, they would be overthrown long ago.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    18. Re:Parent post written by anti-US propagandist by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is all still a waste of money. They are autocracies, the only way to effectively defend against them is to convince 'Dear Leaders' and their cronies that they are number one on the hit parade and they will be targeted and eliminated as the first priority.

      'Dear Leader' and his pals do not give a crap about their country or it's citizens they can all burn as long as it feeds the ego and lusts of 'Dear Leader' and his pals.

      So all you need to do is convince 'Dear Leader' and his pals, that they will die should they initiate a conflict, no negotiation, no truce, no peace until they personally have been eliminated. Whether by direct conflict or assassination.

      The idea that political leaders should be spared from direct personal attack during conflicts is crap. They should be the first on the firing theirs and ours, for their failure to achieve diplomatic resolution and save their citizens lives. Top down attack will see many more diplomatic resolutions and many fewer even zero conflicts.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  4. What if I told you by eap · · Score: 3, Insightful

    a guided missile is just a disposable drone?

    1. Re:What if I told you by PPH · · Score: 2

      a guided missile is just a disposable drone?

      I'd ask you how long your guided missile could loiter over a launch site.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:What if I told you by WindBourne · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Can a guided missile loiter at 50-70K undetected by enemies for 24-48 hours?

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    3. Re:What if I told you by element-o.p. · · Score: 2

      Can a guided missile loiter at 50-70K undetected by enemies for 24-48 hours?

      50-70K? That's seems unusually cold to me. Is it really necessary to supercool the drone to such an extent? >:]

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
  5. Not sure this makes anything easier or cheaper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The technical challenges and cost of BMD is mainly in the interceptor and tracking/targeting which has to be there weather launched from the ground or a ship at see or drone. Yes a done can be located near a country like DPRK and therefore hit at boost phase easier than intercepting further down range (Mid Course or Terminal) however this can be achieved by a ship off the coast in the same way using SM-3. Not sure the first stage of SM-3 is the complex or expensive part? ??

  6. It avoids weaponization of space for now. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2
    The alternative bandied about since Star Wars by Lt Gen Abrahamson in Regan admin, was anti missile satellites. This avoids storing ABM assets in orbit. So to that extent it avoids weaponization of space. And since the drones would have limited range, Russia would not feel threatened. (Russia holds all ABM technology as arms race tipping the balance of power). It is moving from having nuclear armed bombers on 24/7 patrol on the northern Canadian border to having drones encircling North Korea/Iran 24/7. Limited area, non nuclear weapon, these are the good things you can say about this technology.

    But, inevitable consequence of this would be to avoid the boost phase of ICBM. One way is cruise missile instead of a ballistic missile. The other way is to move the whole damned payload up into orbit. That would be a very dangerous development. Since countries with large area would not be at a big disadvantage here, this might be half decent solution against rogue regimes of smaller land area.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  7. Re:Wrong place by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

    You need to know where it is (difficult in case of a mobile launcher) and/or be able to penetrate a hardened shelter. Or a pre-emptive strike might not be politically feasible (clever dictators will build their launchers in the "nursery home and children's hospital" district) And if you wish to strike with when a launch is detected, you will need to have aircraft ready on CAP (continuous air presence). Dangerous and expensive with regular aircraft when your air superiority is iffy; but doable with drones.

    --
    If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
  8. Nothing to see here... by Guppy06 · · Score: 2

    can defeat many of these ballistic missile threats in their boost phase

    "Boost phase" means "shortly after launch," which means being close to where it was launched from, which often means violating their airspace. So your anti-missile technology relies on giving your enemy legal justification to fire to begin with.

  9. The real question. by Nethead · · Score: 3, Funny

    Could a drone really take down a North Korea missile before it self destructs.

    --
    -- I have a private email server in my basement.
  10. Countermeasures? by PeterM+from+Berkeley · · Score: 2

    So, how well will this drone system work against countermeasures? Like, for example, simply shipping the nuke to the target location?

    --PM

  11. A technical fix for a political problem by Required+Snark · · Score: 2
    The international powder keg that is N. Korea is a political problem. No technical fix will "solve" it.

    The regime exists because of draconian internal control. It is not self sustaining, and gets the extra resources it needs (mostly food) by blackmailing the international community. The blackmail is not solely based on their nuclear capabilities.

    For S. Korea and the US, conventional warfare is a meaningful threat. At a minimum the north could take Seoul, and it would be very bloody and costly to push them back to the DMZ. This could cause the collapse of the N. Korean state, so the leadership knows it is likely a suicidal act.

    For China, a collapse of the N. Korea regime would be a nightmare, because of the wave of refugees that would pour over the border. They are currently dealing with a low level refugee problem with defectors, and it is a destabilizing force in their border area with N. Korea. This is how the regime blackmails China.

    China also wants to avoid having a land border with a modern Western capitalist style state. A takeover by the south is the certain outcome of the end of the northern state, just like east and west Germany. Even with the Chinese embrace of capitalist economics, the Communist Party is still the sole source of political power, and they want to keep it that way. A functioning modern Democracy on a land border would be a direct challenge to their political legitimacy. China needs a functioning N. Korea.

    None of this is directly caused by N. Korea nuclear weapons. The elite leadership knows that they would be personally doomed by the use of nuclear weapons. Even if they escape alive from the conflict that would follow, there is literally no place in the world they could hide.

    Nuclear weapons in N. Korea are an bargaining chip for their game of blackmail. Without them the world world would not pay them nearly as much attention, so their ability to manipulate events would be seriously diminished.

    Ballistic missile defense is a US political issue first and foremost. This has been true ever since Regan's Star Wars program. Despite all the money spent and all the claims, the chances that the system works is virtually zero. The "tests"that have been done are exercises in organized lying.

    Remember the first Gulf War and the Scuds? After all the claims of success, the truth finally came out, and the Patriot system was a failure. The current versions are just as broken. How do we know this? Because the number of tests needed to prove a system like this is in the hundreds, or thousands. The number of tests they actually run is in the tens. And they are all rigged to succeed. Just think of how much testing they do on jets or other missiles. And if they did real meaningful testing, then potential adversaries could observe the results and have all the information they would need to defeat it.

    So this done system is ultimately more DOD pork. Therefore, we'll end up building it despite the fact that it will be completely unreliable. A non-working solution to the wrong problem.

    --
    Why is Snark Required?