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Florida Thinks Their Students Are Too Stupid To Know the Right Answers

gurps_npc writes "Robert Krampf, who runs the web site 'The Happy Scientist,' recently wrote in his blog about problems with Florida's Science FCAT. The Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test is an attempt to measure how smart the students are. Where other states have teachers cheating to help students, Florida decided to grade correct answers as wrong. Mr. Krampf examined the state's science answers and found several that clearly listed right answers as wrong. One question had 3 out of 4 answers that were scientifically true. He wrote to the Florida Department of Education's Test Development center. They admitted he was right about the answers, but said they don't expect 5th graders to realize they were right. For this reason they marked them wrong. As such, they were not changing the tests. Note: they wouldn't let him examine real tests, just the practice tests given out. So we have no idea if FCAT is simply too lazy to provide good practice questions, or too stupid to be allowed to test our children."

25 of 663 comments (clear)

  1. The most important lesson in life being taught by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Who's right doesn't matter, who has the power does!

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    1. Re:The most important lesson in life being taught by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Who's right doesn't matter, who has the power does!

      Yes, but kiddies also need to be taught that it *ought* to work that way.

      Otherwise some of them will get uppity later in life.

    2. Re:The most important lesson in life being taught by causality · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is no power involved. The only FCAT that matters is the 10th grade one. You need that to graduate.

      It's the power to sow confusion which actually ends up making impressionable people more complacent and compliant. It's hard to stand up for yourself or generally to have a backbone when you aren't rooted in a solid foundation of fact. A generation of young people who don't know which way is up and which way is down is a tyrant's wet dream, for they will be needy and dependent and that's always been the ticket to real power.

      You don't think this, the side effects it will have, or the fact it comes from government is one great big accident do you? It's not so much a carefully planned conspiracy. It's more like, the same mentality that believes power for its own sake is a worthy goal is the same mentality that would believe this kind of institutionalized insanity is a good idea.

      Anyone who really had the students' best interests at heart would expect better of them than they expect from themselves and equip them to rise to meet or exceed that standard. Assuming from the start that they're just too dumb to be expected to understand some basic things comes from the belief that they're already under your thumb, right where they "should be", and will always be dependent, subservient and mediocre. No one expects excellence from cogs in a machine or blocks at the bottom of a pyramid. If any of you have taken the time to learn about how public schooling was established in America, then you are aware the industrial tycoons feared the poor and wanted to keep them stupid and created their own imitation of the Prussian schools and the Hindu caste system in order to do it. We still pay for that today.

      Ideally, adult people wouldn't have children they were not in a position to afford, both raising them and educating them. Since the bar for personal responsibility (and actual adulthood, which is marked by sound decision-making) has been lowered so much, government involvement is here to stay for the foreseeable future. If we're going to have government involved in the upbringing of children, it needs to be in a limited and controlled fashion. For this reason I would love a voucher-type system where the money follows the child, not the other way around (which do we value more?), and parents can move their children to other schools at-will instead of being stuck.

      But allowing government to directly administer the schools is a terrible, horrible idea. It breeds stupidity like this, and zero tolerance, and the total lack of justice (in a fistfight, the unprovoked attacker AND the defender are both punished equally?!) and it can do nothing else. That is in the nature of the situation when you hand your children over to these people. Seriously, stop acting surprised every time there's a story like this. I for one would never consider having children until I could make other arrangements -- private school if I have the money or homeschooling in a friendly community if I don't. But then I don't think I'm entitled to create life, I don't pretend that this is something that "just happens" as if it weren't the product of adult decisions, and I don't think I'm entitled to shift the burden of parenting onto other people. It's a situation I wouldn't be in unless I were truly prepared to handle it. No excuses, no bullshit, and no pretending like my actions have no impact on it.

      If you love your children and care for their well-being you don't make excuses about not subjecting them to such a suffocating and degrading environment as modern public schools. If you love your convenience more, and secretly regard your children as little more than property or sophisticated pets, another chore to be done, then you whine about how that's "too hard" or how it's so terrible that not everyone can do the same because they fail to plan ahead, have children they are not prepared to raise, etc. It amazes me how people say things like that as though more good examples wouldn't have a positive effect.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    3. Re:The most important lesson in life being taught by digitallife · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You know, I have 2 children, and I'm f'ing sick and tired of people here on slashdot standing on their pulpits preaching about how others should raise their kids, or what they would do if they 'love' their children. It's the hardest damn job in the world to raise kids, and every single parent (whether you think so or not) loves their children. They do the best they are able and know how. One thing I can practically guarantee: if you haven't actually DONE what you are preaching that others should, then it doesn't work like you think it will. That's a basic lesson in life.

    4. Re:The most important lesson in life being taught by RazorSharp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm sick of bad parents bitching about the difficulties of parenting as an excuse for what a poor job they're doing.

      I'm not saying you're a bad parent - I don't know anything about you. But the fallacious excuse you just spewed is one that is far too often used by a parent to defend how they've raised their child who just got in trouble or just dropped out or became an embarrassment in some other way. It's one thing to believe that being a parent has given you some insights into raising kids, it's another to say that you're beyond reproach of any non-parent. I don't believe your claim that every single parent loves their children, but I would agree that most do. But love isn't much of a recompense for bringing a person into this world without being able to properly provide for them.

      The fact of the matter is that people who consciously choose not to have children tend to be the ones who realize what it takes to be a parent. It's the hopeless, short-sighted, optimistic, "I can do better than my parents!" ones who end up with kids they can't handle. They end up with a responsibility they never understood the magnitude of until it's too late to get out of it and then they say with astonishment, "Parenting is really hard!" Well, no shit.

      However, unlike the poster you're responding to I don't feel that having a child is irresponsible because of the public school system. I believe it's immoral because there are so many millions of orphans in the world, that if you want to raise a child selecting from that pool is the only moral option.

      --
      "From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
    5. Re:The most important lesson in life being taught by HapSlappy_2222 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't see where his "fallacious excuse" was. I also don't see where he said he was "beyond reproach of any non-parent". All I saw him say was most parents are doing the best they can, it's unfair for a non-parent (I think this should say "anyone", actually) to make "if you really loved your kids you'd do X, Y, or Z.... " arguments, and that raising kids is much, much different than you'd think it is prior to actually attempting it.

      As for your arguments:

      1) "... being able to properly provide for them." According to what standard? I provide the best I can for my kids, and I think I do a good job. You may not think so, others may think I give to much, and still others think any child not getting at least a Yale-level college fund is getting neglected. Your standards are not my standards, and if you want some kids to fit into your worldview go have your own.

      2) "Parenting is really hard!". I disagree with both you and the GP. It's not hard - it's easy. The hard part, as with anything worthwhile and long term, is the consistency. If you're consistent with your parenting, everything else tends to fall in line. Maybe I lucked out with awesome kids; or maybe they're awesome because I'm consistent. Either way; I look forward to raising my kids into full adulthood from mid-teenage years, and look back fondly on my successes and failures.

      3) "selecting from that pool [of orphans] is the only moral option." I've never understood this argument. I get what you're trying to say; namely "there are enough great kids out there already; why make your own?" but that's kind of a dumb argument when you remove the "starving, lonely kids" aspect. Why make your own furniture when there's plenty of furniture to buy from Ikea (obviously kids are not furniture, but the difference is one of - admittedly vast - scale)? Well, in both cases, because I made them, they come from me directly. There's a huge over-supply of starving kids, for sure, and I'm very sorry, but I don't have the 50 grand to adopt another child, nor would it prevent me from wanting my own child with my own genes if I did. Make those people start taking care of their kids (or stop having them in the first place) before you tell me I can't have kids myself. This may seem an immoral stance to you, but it's the same kind of "immoral" as not sending every penny you earn to the orphans in Africa, or sending your paychecks directly to Sara McLachlin. I help how I'm able, and it's on me, not you, to decide how much I should be helping. Besides, by your logic, YOU are the perfect person to adopt all the children you can afford to, since obviously know how to parent better than other parents do, especially if you are not currently encumbered with your own.

      The rest of your post I don't really take issue to, other than a general tone of contempt, to which you are entitled.

    6. Re:The most important lesson in life being taught by jedwidz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Disagree that parenting is inherently a hard job.

      The bar is set very low - you join the parenting club just by following your instincts, and after that the legal requirements for parenting aren't at all onerous.

      Just make sure that the kids have a roof over their heads, food in their bellies, and no awkward bruises or breakages, and you're pretty much in the clear. You don't need a job, and you don't need to teach them jack. If your kids grow up to be lazy, stupid, obnoxious, criminal and/or bankrupt, that's not your problem.

      Good parenting may be hard, but that depends on what standard of 'good' you set yourself as a parent. If you think parenting is hard because you hold yourself to high standards and care about the outcomes of your parenting, I'm with you on that.

    7. Re:The most important lesson in life being taught by Penguinisto · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If what you claim were true, everyone would hold teachers in high esteem.

      ...you mean like how every time something goes 'bump' in the school budget, the teachers are the first to be held up as the martyrs? You name the political campaign, budgeting debate, or what-have-you, it's always the same old spiel about how the poor teachers need less students, more money, etc.

      Now here's the kicker: In any school, the teachers are the minority. Here's an extreme sample: When I taught, there were 210 employees of the (tech school, then state collegiate) campus, but only 42 faculty. Yep... forty-two actual teachers on a huge campus. The other 168 employees were administrators, student counselors, janitors, student aid, IT staff, Accounts (Payable|Receiving), fundraising/income specialists, marketing specialists, accountants, special-ed workers (not teachers), program managers, facilities (landscaping, electrical, plumbing, etc), curriculum specialists, bookstore staff, certification specialists (that keep track of teachers' certification requirements), legal staff (you betcha), receptionists, school district liaisons, high school (AP course) liaisons, cafeteria staff, union reps/shop stewards, a staff psychologist, nursing/medical staff, public relations staff, and assorted other positions.

      In most other schools, the same ratio holds... about 20-30% of a given school's employees are actual teachers. Sometimes that drifts up to 40%, but only in rare cases.

      OTOH, whenever a school budget is argued over, who gets thought of first? It ain't all those other positions I listed up there - just the teachers.

      The problem ain't the teachers per se (though an amazing number are incompetent beyond belief, yet the NEA would go ballistic and threaten a general strike if you tried to fire the bad ones). The problem is this monster army of administrators and middle-management that swallows any given school budget, leaving damned little for the actual teachers. Now I'm not talking about the janitors and IT folks, but the massive percentage of paper-pushers, make-work positions (usually granted as political favors), curriculum specialists, and all the bloat that a typical school district carries on its ledger.

      Trust me - it can stand a LOT of improvement, and having it run by an unaccountable, spend-happy, typically corrupt-as-hell city/state government agency? Umm, yeah.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    8. Re:The most important lesson in life being taught by Lost+Race · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm a parent, I understand, and I agree with both RazorSharp and causality. I sympathize with digitallife but I've found that the parenting advice of experienced parents is every bit as useless, unworkable, and inappropriate as that of the childless. Most parents are pretty crappy at parenting. What they're good at is compromising ideals and rationalizing inadequacies.

    9. Re:The most important lesson in life being taught by Omestes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Morality is objective.

      Damn you, you made me undo mod points with that phrase. How is morality objective? There are TONS of variants of what is moral out there, so how can you claim it is objective. Morality is an opinion, yes, and some opinions are more commonly held than others, but it is still an opinion. Opinions aren't objective. You BELIEVE your morality, but that still doesn't make it objective, it is still an opinion.

      It's not up to me to determine how much you help but doesn't invalidate my opinion on the matter.

      But it does, for him. He doesn't agree with your opinion, thus for him your opinion is invalid. I don't agree with your morality here, and thus, to me, it is completely invalid. You can live with it, your can think it is valid as the day is long, but that doesn't make it universal. It doesn't make it magically objective.

      Further, I'm sick of people saying that "appeal to authority is a fallacy, this your argument is automatically invalid", that too is a fallacy. If the soul basis of argument is "authority", then it is a fallacy, but claiming authority in itself isn't. I'm sorry, this guy is a parent, thus he is an authority, and thus he probably DOES know more about child rearing (at least the nuts and bolts of it) than I, a non-parent, does. I'm going to weigh his opinions more than yours on that topic. Just like I'm going to weigh a cosmologists opinions on the functioning of the universe over that of a television personality, or the Time Cube guy. Yes, if your follow up was true, you might be correct on your appeal to Wikipedia, but I didn't see what you saw.

      Further, my parents were awesome, and yet I got in a shit-ton of trouble as a kid. Hell, I dropped out of high school, got hooked on drugs, and made more than my share of terrible decisions. I only managed to pull through thanks to the background my parents gave me, and their forgiveness and patience. I'm sick of this "blame the parents" bullshit, kids have free will, circumstances have pull, and peer groups are a bitch, these are just as important as parents once kids enter the real world. "Blame the parents" is overly simplistic, there are huge webs of causes and effects out there. Yes, there are bad parents, but there also are good parents with wild children. This has always been true, and always will be true.

      I think it's selfish that anyone could love one human more than another because they share the same genes.

      If only someone would write a book about that!

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
  2. No child left... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...educated.

  3. Excuse me, but what is this? by sixtyeight · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've been noticing stories that are covered much like this a lot on Slashdot lately. It's difficult to know whether it's journalism - which reports the facts and allows the reader to reach their own conclusion about them - an editorial piece - which is where blatantly opinion-laden writing is usually found - or tabloid reporting - which purports to be legitimate but is usually written for sensationalism.

    I realize that proper journalism went out when political pundits were brought in, but this weird crossbreed of online reporting is becoming a trend.

    --
    The Wolfpack Project: BitCoin + Crowdfunding = Political Accountability
    1. Re:Excuse me, but what is this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No. You're wrong.

      Assuming the author isn't batantly fabricating anything (i.e. the responses from the state) this is fact, not opinion.

      If you RTFA the sample questions listed clearly have multiple correct answers and that's the crux of the piece. One could argue that the official answers are "more correct" (e.g. frequency of bee arrivals may be easier to test than the softness of a petal), but the issues documented in the article are real and relevant to the public interest.

  4. Re:Common Misconceptions by forkfail · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you read TFA, you'll find that this isn't assuming that student's won't know something yet - it is defining a predator as an organism that gets its nutrients from consuming another organism (meaning a cow is a predictor).

    And even if it was the first, consider the impact on anyone with an advanced-for-their-age understanding, and the impact on them. It knocks down their confidence in their budding intelligence, reduces to the least common denominator.

    No, this is wrong in every way, and not defensible.

    --
    Check your premises.
  5. Re:Common Misconceptions by UnknowingFool · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I read the article and it seems to me that the practice test has major flaws in that those who wrote the practice tests were not precise. The definitions were off. The 3 of 4 example was one where the student of asked which of the 4 was testable:
    1. The petals of red roses are softer than the petals of yellow roses.
    2. The song of a mockingbird is prettier than the song of a cardinal.
    3. Orange blossoms give off a sweeter smell than gardenia flowers.
    4. Sunflowers with larger petals attract more bees than sunflowers with smaller petals.

    Softness is a physical property you can test. Sweetness when it comes to aromas is a chemical response. And size vs bee attraction is also testable. What the question intends is which of these is most plausible when it comes to cause and effect which the right answer is 4. 1 and 3 are right due to the way the question was asked.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  6. Re:Common Misconceptions by tolkienfan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is no excuse. When there is a multiple choice question where only one choice is allowed, (like most standardized tests), all correct answers should be counted as correct. If there are answers that are correct for subtle reasons, either put alternate (more obvious) incorrect choices, or allow them as alternative correct answers.
    No debate is necessary.

  7. Re:Not just florida... by forkfail · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If we want good education for our kids (and thus, to maintain our position as an economic world power), there's two things that need be done.

    First, hold teachers accountable. As you note, having the tenured gym teacher teach algebra because he can use a calculator must stop.

    But the other bit is that we have to pay the true professionals what they're worth. Look at the teachers in the nations that lead on the test scores (Finland, Japan, etc) - they're not only highly respected, they're highly paid.

    --
    Check your premises.
  8. Re:Common Misconceptions by Milyardo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The misconception this question enforces is stronger than that. 1 and 3 attempt compare the the measurement of physical properties while number 4 is a behavioural observation that can only be measured through correlation. Numbers 1 and 3 can be proven to be fact through measurement while number can only be a hypothesis(that can only be proven with a causation or disproven with a observation that states otherwise). From the TFA the purpose of the question is asses the student's ability to discern opinion/interpretation from a scientific observation. While number is undoubtedly a scientific observation, asserting number 4 is true after observation is still an opinion/interpretation, making it a poor choice to assert that student has a clear understanding of the difference between opinion and fact.

  9. Re:Common Misconceptions by wisty · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In multiple choice questions, the "most correct" answer is the right one. Otherwise, all answers can be correct, if you argue hard enough (if it's at all subjective).

    The problem is, they used a stupid question - you can scientifically test the "softness" or "sweetness" of a flower. There should be one that's obviously "most correct".

    For in-class quizzes, it's not so important (as the student can challenge it), but for a state-wide test there shouldn't be any wriggle room.

  10. Re:Common Misconceptions by amicusNYCL · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The response to his questions was pretty telling also. The official agreed with the science, that 3 of the answers were testable, but he said that students who learned about mineral hardness couldn't be expected to realize that applied to other materials, and that students couldn't be expected to realize that you can use a chromatograph (or anything else) to test the qualities of a smell.

    The obvious solution is to choose other properties that are actually non-testable instead of list testable properties and assume the students won't know, but they refused to change those responses.

    --
    "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  11. Re:Common Misconceptions by jd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When it was found that the British GCSE examiners were marking salt as something you couldn't melt, it was considered a national disaster and the media ripped the examining authorities a new one.

    In Florida, marking something that scientists test everyday as untestable is more likely to get you a promotion and a hefty bonus.

    Standardized exams are EVIL and worthless (exams should be tailored to as small a group as practical and should test that group's ability to acquire and understand knowledge, it's the only way you can establish anything of value) but standardized exams that are also factually wrong should be burned at the stake. There is no excuse for them. Ever.

    It doesn't matter what the examiner "expects" the students to know. A "C" grade should be what you "expect" the students to know. "A" should be reserved for people who know things you DIDN'T expect them to know. If you run out of grade letters, as the UK's A-level group did when they added A* to the mix, then that's for people who know things you didn't even know yourself.

    If you restrict people to boxes, expect them to have boxes for brains when they leave school. Maybe that works "just fine" in everglade country in the middle of a recession, but it should still not be acceptable. Anywhere. Ever.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  12. A little Orwellian? by MDillenbeck · · Score: 4, Insightful

    'How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?'

    'Four.'

    'And if the party says that it is not four but five -- then how many?'

    'Four.'

    The word ended in a gasp of pain. The needle of the dial had shot up to fifty-five. The sweat had sprung out all over Winston's body. The air tore into his lungs and issued again in deep groans which even by clenching his teeth he could not stop. O'Brien watched him, the four fingers still extended. He drew back the lever. This time the pain was only slightly eased.

    'How many fingers, Winston?'

    'Four.'

    The needle went up to sixty.

    'How many fingers, Winston?'

    'Four! Four! What else can I say? Four!'

    The needle must have risen again, but he did not look at it. The heavy, stern face and the four fingers filled his vision. The fingers stood up before his eyes like pillars, enormous, blurry, and seeming to vibrate, but unmistakably four.

    'How many fingers, Winston?'

    'Four! Stop it, stop it! How can you go on? Four! Four!'

    'How many fingers, Winston?'

    'Five! Five! Five!'

    'No, Winston, that is no use. You are lying. You still think there are four. How many fingers, please?'

    'Four! five! Four! Anything you like. Only stop it, stop the pain!'

    Abruptly he was sitting up with O'Brien's arm round his shoulders. He had perhaps lost consciousness for a few seconds. The bonds that had held his body down were loosened. He felt very cold, he was shaking uncontrollably, his teeth were chattering, the tears were rolling down his cheeks. For a moment he clung to O'Brien like a baby, curiously comforted by the heavy arm round his shoulders. He had the feeling that O'Brien was his protector, that the pain was something that came from outside, from some other source, and that it was O'Brien who would save him from it.

    'You are a slow learner, Winston,' said O'Brien gently.

    'How can I help it?' he blubbered. 'How can I help seeing what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four.'

    'Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to become sane.'

    I can understand the viewpoint given in the summary - how can a 5th grader possibly know the answer to such a challenging question? After all, are not all children ranked by their grade and set to be equal to their peers in that same approximately 1 year category? It defies their understanding of "abstract though begins at age x", and they forget that their is variance within that spectrum. There may be a child in 5th grade that understands advanced scientific topics, but since the probability of that is far, far lower than the probability of selecting the answer at random when given 1 of 4 or 1 of 5 choices, they have assumed the child just guessed.

    However, there is something frightening about assessing the right answer as incorrect. Perhaps the testing needs to be redesigned to eliminate the ease at which randomly guessed right answers can be assessed. Unfortunately, scantrons are cheap ways of correcting thousands of tests - thus the write your answer and have a human correct will probably never be reimplemented. (Sorry for the ramblings - I'm cramming for a Linear Algebra midterm while slashdotting.)

  13. Re:Not just florida... by roc97007 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In fairness, sometimes you have to teach a topic on which you are not an expert. My daughter was homeschooled for a few years (she's now about to graduate 12th grade at a magnet school) and I don't mind telling you, I had one hell of a time with biology, which I had skipped in school. (My school allowed you to take physics instead if you had already passed chemistry.) I wasn't even a chapter ahead of her; often I was only two or three pages ahead of her. (Geeze, biology is hard! I now have a profound respect for people in that field. As an engineer, I always thought of organisms as "really complicated machines". Now I think of organisms as "impossibly complicated machines".) And because I did not know the subject (as was the case with your teacher) I did not unquestioningly believe the textbook. If we found something questionable, we looked it up on the internet, found three or four sources, and saw if they agreed. (Not a sure thing, but better than having only one source.) We never found an actual error, although in a couple of cases I'd argue that some parts violated the "correlation is not causation" rule.

    And then, we got into US History at her current school, and wow! Talk about logical fallacies! In reading the text to her, I'd have to stop every second paragraph and remark "those two things are actually unrelated". or "that's demonstrably untrue" or "that's a false dilemma". It was hard to get through the materials, find answers that passed the course, and still leave her critical thinking skills intact.

    In summary, it's not necessarily how well the teacher knows the material, it's how well the teacher is engaged as a teacher.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  14. Re:Not just florida... by j-beda · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not quite the same, but I've seen college exams where the professor had it wrong, marked me wrong, and would not fix the mistake.

    One professor (computer graphics exam) thought the Sun behaved like a point light source on Earth. It does not, it behaves like a plane light source because it is much larger than the Earth and the light arriving from the sun is for all computer graphics purposes arriving with the same vector direction. He would have none of it.

    Humm, he wanted to treat the sun as a point source at 1 AU (93 million miles, 49,597,870.7 kilometres from wikipedia), while you wanted to treat it as a point source at infinite distance (thus generating plane waves)? Any "plane wave" like behaviour of sunlight is not because the sun is huge, but rather because the sun is far away. The larger the sun, the LESS its light behaves like a plane wave.

    From a shadow casting point of view, both plane wave illumination and distant point source illumination result in sharp shadows, with very little to distinguish them. For a point sources at 1AU, the difference between angles on different sides of person-sized objects at for person-sized distances where the shadow is formed, is pretty minimal. To get a 1% increase in shadow size, you would need to have the shadow be 1% longer than the distance from the point source to the object casting the shadow, or about one million miles - which is probably not the type of thing you are trying to represent with your computer graphics.

      I've never done any computer graphics involving scene lighting or anything like that, but I doubt the difference between point source and plane wave would be noticeable in modeling sunlight.

    In actual fact, the sun is not a point source, it is an extended object about 1/2 of a degree in size, which means that shadows cast by sharp edges in sunlight have a "penumbra" of 0.5 degrees. Here is an image showing the formation of this type of shadow:

    http://www.pnas.org/content/96/9/5239/F2.expansion.html

    For a shadow cast on something a meter behind the object, using good old trig (1m) x tangent(0.5 degrees) = 0.00872686779 m or almost 9 mm. Thus sunlight shadows are fuzzy edges for real-world distances (albeit not really very fuzzy), compared to the sharp edges that plane waves or point sources would cast.

    It may well be that the professor was "wrong" to model sunlight as a point source, but it seems at least as wrong to model it as a plane wave, when there is up to 1/2 of a degree in difference between different directions of the light from the source.

  15. Test taking skills by JazzHarper · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not about knowing which answers are accurate--it's about passing the test. Perceptive students learn very quickly how to provide the answers that are required, regardless of whether they are technically true or not. There is new about that--I learned it 40 years ago and scored much higher on standardized tests than I really deserved. It is utterly naïve to cast that in terms of recent politics.