Will Write Code, Won't Sign NDA

itwbennett writes "John Larson hears a lot of 'ideas' from a lot of entrepreneurs who want his programming expertise, but says he 'will almost never sign an NDA.' He has plenty of reasons for refusing to sign, but one that really resonates is that, regardless of what your lawyer may say, demanding an NDA upfront starts the relationship off on the wrong foot. The bottom line: If you want a programmer to hear you out, don't start by assuming that they'll steal your great idea."

Comments

Re:Naive, because most investors (especially VCs).

[Endo13]

I suggest reading TFA. I did, and his stance makes a lot more sense.

One of his reasons, in a nutshell, is so he's not faced with the possibility of lawsuits due to overly broad and vague NDAs.

did you read the article?

[Chirs]

The complaint is that most NDAs are not specific about what they cover, how long they last, etc. Alternately, they cover stuff already known by the programmer, or obvious to one skilled in the art. If I sign an overly-broad NDA, then if I take it seriously it may prevent me from discussing things that I really should be allowed to discuss.

Some selected bits from the article:

"Are there some situations where NDAs are appropriate? You betcha. They are appropriate when there exists something both significant and tangible to disclose, representing more than just whatever popped into your head in the shower. The 10 page business plan alluded to above makes a reasonable cutoff, necessary but probably not sufficient.

The importance of having something significant and tangible is that it’s something you can point to and say “there, THAT’S what is confidential”. ...An NDA that is not highly specific nor describes boundaries to what it applies is not worth signing: sloppy legalese at best, a malicious trap at worst.

An NDA should also be dependent upon the signer being compensated in some non-trivial way, as in a condition of being hired or part of terms of a sale."

No NDA/NDC? Meet your new competitor

[Ronin Developer]

Yes, it happened to me. Employment contract in hand, I had to sign an NDA/Non-compete protecting them. The hiring contract required I disclose my own efforts and ideas AND give up my own ventures. To prevent my perspective employer from asking my ideas and personal work, I had to list each of my ideas, business models. They wanted more details on two I was actively developing,

In good faith, I gave them some information. That wanted more - including my designs. I asked for them to sign an NDA and Non-Compete. They wouldn't. I lost the position.

Two months later, a business cropped up that implemented the features I discussed in good faith. Coincidence???? Maybe.

There was nothing protecting me, my products, and my business ideas from someone at that company taking my IP and giving it to someone else to develop. I am a single inventor and developer who made a major mistake.

Sadly, a new employer holds the cards when an unemployed individual seeks employment. I am still unemployed and have a competitor that I hadn't planned on as I job search and try to launch my business.

Yes, someone may have come up with the same idea...but, for the past two years, there was no one in my space. Two months after I revealed my plans, I had a competitor out of nowhere. Can't prove anything and have no recourse.

So, yes, I will require an NDA and Non-Compete when I disclose critical information.

Re:Naive, because most investors (especially VCs).

[Pentium100]

Loser pays in my country and I don't think that there are too many people abusing the system like you say. Then again, people in my country do not sue each other over small things. Maybe this is one reason why - if you sue for some stupid thing (like the lady who sued McDonald's because hot coffee was hot), the defendant, if he believes that he can win, can hire a good lawyer and when he wind you will pay for his services. So, it would be impossible for RIAA to sue people here like they do in the US ("settle and pay us or spend more money paying your lawyer even if you win"), because they would lose money for each lost case and people would not be as quick to settle.

Re:Naive, because most investors (especially VCs).

[mysidia]

So, with that in mind, I'm curious how an expired NDA is more protection than not having signed the NDA in the first place.

It eliminates the possibility that there was an "implied" or "verbal" NDA, because instead: there is an explicit written NDA, with an expiration date.

Re:That was a perfectly reasonable suit.

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

Unless McD made that coffee over 100C.

You know, if you could bother to take 10 seconds to do some basic research, you would have found out that they did make their coffee at nearly double the temperature you make your coffee:

Over the course of the trial, Liebeck’s team established that McDonald’s had a policy of serving its coffee at temperatures ranging from 180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit to enhance flavor and ensure that to-go cups were still warm when they reached their destinations. (The coffee that you brew at home probably comes out at around 140 degrees, so there’s a significant difference.) Moreover, experts testified that skin can burn quickly when contacted by liquids at these temperatures.

More damning, though, was McDonald’s own testimony. The company admitted that in the decade before Liebeck’s incident, upwards of 700 customers had filed complaints about its coffee causing burns.