Slashdot Mirror


Avian Flu Researcher Plans to Defy Dutch Ban On Publishing Paper

scibri writes "Ron Fouchier, one of the researchers involved in the controversy over whether to publish research on mutant versions of H5N1 bird flu, has said he plans to submit his paper to Science without applying for an export control license as demanded by the Dutch government. Failing to get the license means he could face penalties including up to six years in prison. Whether the paper falls under export-control laws is unclear. The Netherlands implements European Union (EU) legislation on export controls, which require an export permit for 'dual-use' materials and information — those that could have both legitimate and malicious uses — including those relating to dangerous pathogens. But the EU law allows an exception for 'basic scientific research' that is 'not primarily directed towards a specific practical aim or objective,' which Fouchier says should cover his work."

26 of 118 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Sounds like a good STORY for a bioweapon releas by Thanshin · · Score: 2, Funny

    "everyone must take compulsory vaccine to avoid pandemic"
    "those refusing will be held in 'quaranteen'"

    Everybody else will become autistic.

  2. Good for him by AdrianKemp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I salute him for risking prison, he's doing the right thing. Censorship is evil, research perhaps most of all.

    1. Re:Good for him by DJRumpy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And if a terrorist group uses that research to kill thousands or millions? Will you still feel its justified?

    2. Re:Good for him by digitig · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And if a terrorist group uses that research to kill thousands or millions? Will you still feel its justified?

      Do you hold the Wright Brothers, Dr Hans Von Ohain and Sir Frank Whittle responsible for 9/11?

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    3. Re:Good for him by X0563511 · · Score: 3, Funny

      He would, but he probably doesn't know who they are.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    4. Re:Good for him by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 2

      Yes I would. You could say the same about any technology, but I have more likely worries than some terrorist plot.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    5. Re:Good for him by DJRumpy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The invention of flight had obvious benefits to the scientific community and the general population. Mutating a virus to be more deadly isn't quite the same. Although research could evolve from it that proves to be beneficial, the immediate result of this research is not. This is also potentially far more deadly than a plane flying into a building. It could have global consequences if misused with the potential to kill far more than 9/11.

      They are not the same.

    6. Re:Good for him by bmo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "And if a terrorist group uses that research to kill thousands or millions? Will you still feel its justified?"

      Fuck you and everyone like you.

      Yes it's justified.

      The benefits of scientific exchange by studying contagions outweigh whatever risks there are due to mythical terrorists behind every tree. Terrorists, I must add, who set fire to their shoes and underwear. We're not exactly talking about fucking genius. If they thought for one fucking second about what they were doing, they wouldn't try to fucking blow themselves up, would they?

      People like you would drag us back to the fucking dark ages because "technology can be used by terrorists" and there would be no fucking benefit to anyone except your fucking megalomania.

      There are far easier and effective ways of killing people than trying to weaponize a virus. Take your "doctor evil" bad movie script, print it out until it is all sharp corners, and shove it up your ass.

      Go confiscate someone else's nail clippers.

      --
      BMO

    7. Re:Good for him by digitig · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Pretty much any research (beyond that which puts the blindingly obvious on a formal scientific basis) has potential uses for terrorists -- look at the way bodies such as the USA and the EU include basic medicines in export bans because they might be used to heal the baddies. If this information is released worldwide then it could help a whole lot of other people working on a vaccine, not just the Dutch pharmaceutical companies, and so it could lead to earlier development of a vaccine and a resulting saving of lives.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    8. Re:Good for him by martas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And if said virus killed your family?

      I will never take anyone seriously who brings up the possibility of personal loss in a discussion like this. That is an argument that can be used in many contexts, to argue both sides of the issue. It is non-informative, and intellectually dishonest. Stop it.

    9. Re:Good for him by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Then at least they didn't die in abject fear of an unlikely bogeyman.

      And my daughter wouldn't have her tits groped on the off chance that the TSA agent will feel something other than her tits.

    10. Re:Good for him by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 2

      I'd still feel the same about releasing the knowledge. Granted I would probably want to string the individuals who released the virus by their own entrails (this is one of my less creative ideas), or pick them off at 400+ meters with my deer rifle. Your argument seems specious at best, it is akin to asking if I would be mad at some car company if a drunk plowed into my family killing them.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    11. Re:Good for him by tommituura · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And if said virus killed your family? It's easy to make off the cuff statements that 'censorship' is bad, when researchers also have a responsibility to think of the ramifications of their research.

      Wrong question.

      I'd be much, much more concerned if the scientists will discover a working vaccine before this mutation happens in the wild, and to that end, SCIENCE needs to be done. Suppression of research is clearly harmful to this goal. So, I'd be asking the question: "And if said virus, having mutated in wild, killed your family, and the vaccine wasn't ready in time thanks to idiots who wanted to make it harder to discover with their security theater?"

      And honestly, the way I see it, the harmful info is already out there. If the terrorists have a grasp of biology, and the resources at the level they would be able to actually do these things, the information that H5N1 can actually mutate into something this dangerous is enough. Suppressing this research is doing nothing else but letting the bad guys have all the weapons.

    12. Re:Good for him by repapetilto · · Score: 2

      What is the immediate result of having some crazy guy flying around your town in his contraption?

    13. Re:Good for him by X.25 · · Score: 2

      And if a terrorist group uses that research to kill thousands or millions? Will you still feel its justified?

      First, it's government of the "developed world" that go most of the killing (or turn blind eye when their 'strategic allies' do it). Not the terrorists.

      Second, do you hold inventors of gun powder responsible for deaths of thousands or millions?

      I am more scared of governments than terrorists. I really am.

    14. Re:Good for him by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      I know they are, I voted against them in the last election!

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    15. Re:Good for him by adamchou · · Score: 2

      There are far easier and effective ways of killing people than trying to weaponize a virus

      really? how is it far easier to kill millions of people than to weaponize a deadly and highly contagious virus?

  3. Agreed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Government will try to paint a picture where the consequences of free association are worse than the consequences of oppression (yes, I said oppression) -- but those of us who think for ourselves already know the truth.

    I'm guessing this respectable man (the scientist) thinks for himself. We need more of his type in this world, and less of the government type. MUCH less of the government type.

  4. Re:Sounds like a good STORY for a bioweapon releas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not like the guy is saying,

    "Tomorrow at 8:00AM I'm going to rob the First PanNational Bank of Metropolis and there's nothing you coppers can do to stop me."

    Rather, he is saying,

    "I am going to submit my scientific research to a well respected journal in my field. I do not consider that an illegal act. I do however understand that my research is considered dangerous by some, so I want to appear to be the reasonable person in this situation."

  5. Licenses on dual use? by tlhIngan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wouldn't that be most technology out there?

    I mean, take anything and there's always a malicious use for it. A car can serve as transportation for someone (good), or as a quick getaway after committing a crime (bad).

    The computer can be used to educate and communicate, or to create misery for others and steal (real cybercrime here). And that doesn't even involve the murkiness of copyright.

    A camera can be used to document a crime, or to commit one (e.g., pedophillia creation).

    A book can be used to educate, inform or provide entertainment, or to spread ugly rumors and how to make say, bombs to kill people.

    Really - where's the line? This research can be used to spur new advances in medicine, or be used to create a mass plague.

    Practically everything has a malicious use to it.

  6. Limited distribution by jamesl · · Score: 3, Interesting

    " ... he plans to submit his paper to Science ... "

    Where it will be hidden behind a paywall

  7. Re:Sounds like a good STORY for a bioweapon releas by gl4ss · · Score: 2

    Seriously, why the fuck would he announce beforehand that he is planning on doing something illegal. If he was so hell-bent on releasing the info, wouldn't he be concerned that forewarning the authorities might cause them to act first and prevent the release?

    This story does not add up.

    well, if the authorities stop him from releasing the information, it's not his fault, not his choice to bow down before vague pressure to not publish - then at least there would be court about it, if it's legal and where such research could be done and who can do it and which scientists end up with gagging orders for what reasons.

    --
    world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  8. Civil Disobedience by alexander_686 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I am reading this not as a narrow legal dodge (it falls outside the laws) but as a broad claim of researching being able to freely publish scientific data without prior censorship, and thus a campaign of Civil Disobedience.

    The point of Civil Disobedience is not to break unjust laws, it’s to change them. Read up on the theorist of your choice, but I am picking Gandhi’s Salt March. The idea is to state your case on why you think your action is just, announce you are doing it, then do it. The authorities then must public arrest you. Do it long enough, loud enough and the capricious law will crumble.

    Anonymous Pirates take note. If you think IP laws should change (which I do), stand up and be counted, just don’t download the latest whatever. If you don’t do what you do with pride, people will just assume you are cheap unemployed people ripping off starving artistic.

  9. Re:Sounds like government censorship to me by 0a100b · · Score: 2

    And fuck the Americans too?

    Initially the Dutch government had no problems with the scientists publishing their research.
    It was the US government didn't want the paper to be published and they somehow made the Dutch government take the same stance on the issue.

    (In Dutch) Article from University of Wageningen about the issue

  10. Re:Sounds like a good STORY for a bioweapon releas by Idbar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Furthermore, because what prohibits anyone else to do research on the topic?

    So for one... terrorists for sure won't try to publish their research.
    And second, he probably has spent a good amount of time researching to be scooped by another researcher in another country that may not have the "exporting" issue.

    Still, that doesn't mean is going to be published, and peer-reviewing will be in place, very likely if some consider is very interesting it will be published. Unless other hands wave at the paper and never gets published. (Yes, submitting doesn't mean publishing)

  11. Re:Sounds like a good STORY for a bioweapon releas by interkin3tic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "rogue scientist unwittingly gives the terrorists their dream weapon"

    Terrorists generally aren't too adept at molecular biology. Knowing the DNA sequence does not mean you'd be able to will it together in a functional virus. I'm a molecular biologist, and I wouldn't know where to start making this flu. Terrorists aren't even that advanced with conventional bombs. The 9/11 attacks, they didn't even actually HAVE a bomb, they just had box cutters and a promise that they did have a bomb.

    While some government bent on censoring the internet obviously wouldn't care about the truth and might use it as an excuse anyway, it's also true that voters aren't too concerned about censoring the net anyway.

    Why worry about science as an excuse, when saying "Child porn!" is a more effective cover for taking away free speech anyway?