Microsoft Backs Away From CISPA Support, Citing Privacy

suraj.sun writes "CISPA, the hotly-contested cybersecurity bill making its way through Congress, has been supported by Microsoft since it was introduced. However, the company now tells CNET that any such legislation must 'honor the privacy and security promises we make to our customers,' while also 'protecting consumer privacy.' As you may recall, the U.S. House passed CISPA on Thursday. The Obama administration has threatened to veto the bill. Quoting CNET: 'That's a noticeable change — albeit not a complete reversal — from Microsoft's position when CISPA was introduced in November 2011. To be sure, Microsoft's initial reaction to CISPA came before many of the privacy concerns had been raised. An anti-CISPA coalition letter (PDF) wasn't sent out until April 16, and a petition that garnered nearly 800,000 signatures wasn't set up until April 5. What makes CISPA so controversial is a section saying that, "notwithstanding any other provision of law," companies may share information with Homeland Security, the IRS, the NSA, or other agencies. By including the word "notwithstanding," CISPA's drafters intended to make their legislation trump all existing federal and state laws, including ones dealing with wiretaps, educational records, medical privacy, and more.'"

Comments

Microsoft has always been pro-privacy

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsofts business is to sell software, not collect your data and violate your privacy like Google does. This lining goes well along with Microsoft's past behavior and respect towards users privacy.

Re:Microsoft has always been pro-privacy

[Penguinisto]

Please - the only reason Microsoft is backing away from it now is because they were caught supporting it. Look for them to happily support the next anti-consumer bill to come down the pike if the bill benefits them... and just like this time, and SOPA before it, they'll quietly hope that this time, nobody notices.

Re:Microsoft has always been pro-privacy

[betterunixthanunix]

Microsofts business is to sell software

They also have a substantial and growing online services division, and they are still in a precarious position when it comes to antitrust laws. Microsoft does not want to endanger its relationship with the government -- a relationship that basically resulted in the punishment for their previous antitrust case being completely ignored. They also sell technology to law enforcement agencies that helps in the gathering of computer evidence.

A business built on privacy violations? No, nobody can accuse Microsoft of that, at least not without some real evidence to back it up. A friendly and valuable relationship with the government, that has allowed them to continue to dominate various markets? Absolutely, and that is why they supported CISPA -- it basically gave them a free pass to cultivate that relationship.

Re:Microsoft has always been pro-privacy

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't believe this comment hasn't been judged as either flame-bait or trolling. Even if Microsoft wasn't interested early on in collecting data, since they began focusing on the Web, they've made every effort to facilitate the efforts of their customers (not end users) to do so.

Aside from this, what is Bing! if not another attempt to pigeonhole every end user by their habits, preferences and communications.

Pro-privacy... give me a break.

Re:Microsoft has always been pro-privacy

[symbolset]

Their complaint was that it was "not evil enough".

Re:Microsoft has always been pro-privacy

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah... they were "caught". Like how their PR department officially announced that they were initially in support of it. Wow.. what deception ! What a sneaky way to support something !

Google on the other hand is fully in support of this horrible bill. It gives them more power to snoop on their users. And they get complete immunity from lawsuits because they promise to share the data with the government.

Re:Microsoft has always been pro-privacy

[VanessaE]

So it's quasi-evil? It's the margarine of evil?

Re:Microsoft has always been pro-privacy

[Motard]

A Microsoft executive recently pointed out that they keep far less personal information than Google. So it seems that MS sees this as a handy hammer to smack Google with.

I don't think MS wants Google's business model (which is probably why they were looking to offload Bing to Facebook or another partner).

Re:Microsoft has always been pro-privacy

[Curunir_wolf]

So it's quasi-evil? It's the margarine of evil?

You're a little behind. Margarine is now known to be full-on Pure Evil.

Re:Microsoft has always been pro-privacy

[Anonymous Coward]

I kept waiting for the article to point out that omg margarine is just one molecule away from plastic!
Though it may have some truths, some of the arguing points read like the worst sort of propaganda (butter is 'more natural', margarine can't be digested, flies won't touch it, butter has been around longer, etc), so that it would be foolish to trust it.

Re:Microsoft has always been pro-privacy

[Penguinisto]

1) Microsoft happily supported it because at the time no one outside of Congress and a few tech giants knew what it actually was. Once its evils were divulged and the tech world at large began ringing the alarms, Microsoft scuttled back. I doubt you'll find those PR release in support of CISPA now, at least not without resorting to archive.org

2) Google actually took no position on CISPA. Their quote is as follows:

"We think this is an important issue and we're watching the process closely but we haven't taken a formal position on any specific legislation."

(The author of the CNET article posted that above-linked quote. Read the story for context).

In other words, Google is sitting back and not taking any position. Nice attempt to shill on your part, though.

Re:Microsoft has always been pro-privacy

[Tastecicles]

no, they wanted rid of Bing because it is a money pit.

Re:Microsoft has always been pro-privacy

[ozmanjusri]

Please - the only reason Microsoft is backing away from it now is because they were caught supporting it.

They haven't backed away from it. It's only one of their reputation managers in MSM adding some positive spin.

To quote a Reddit poster:

Ugh, this is the same pattern as SOPA. Microsoft supported SOPA (which is the house version of the PROTECT IP act, which they still support) for a month until it started to get bad press. Then they changed their position to "it needs more work". They never said they opposed it.

The person who interpreted that as "opposition" was... Declan McCullagh of CNet! The very same guy who is now trying to give the impression that Microsoft no longer supports CISPA.

http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/swdtn/microsoft_backs_away_from_cispa_support_citing/c4hl9xe

Re:Microsoft has always been pro-privacy

[spongman]

do you have a linked-in account?

Re:Microsoft has always been pro-privacy

[Motard]

Windows was a money pit for several years. But they saw a future for themselves there.

Re:Microsoft has always been pro-privacy

[Anonymous Coward]

I kept waiting for the article to point out that omg margarine is just one molecule away from plastic! Though it may have some truths, some of the arguing points read like the worst sort of propaganda (butter is 'more natural', margarine can't be digested, flies won't touch it, butter has been around longer, etc), so that it would be foolish to trust it.

Flies won't touch it? I'm coating all my food in margarine!

a first time for everything.

[bleedingsamurai]

This is a first for Microsoft, protecting users' privacy.

Re:a first time for everything.

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft != Google. They have always been good about making sure their services are opt-in and not selling everything to viagra spammers.

Re:a first time for everything.

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly! Microsoft never been accused of anything of the sort.

Why pêople hate microsoft is because of they excessive pricing scheme, you pay for a computer with WINDOWS license, then buy a server WITH A WINDOWS license AND WTF DO YOU KNOW NEXT, you have to fucking poay for a licence to ALLOW the computer to connect to the server.

Re:a first time for everything.

[marcello_dl]

Or a token move.

How much they care for privacy is seen in the way they implement their OS and apps. I don't judge them in that regard, BIT before you judge, try to see how other players in the field, esp. Debian, tackle the problem of broadcasting the OS, the updates, and get optional feedback (popcon).

Re:a first time for everything.

[bleedingsamurai]

I want you to go home, turn off any thing on your network that might be sending broadcast traffic, fire up a computer running a freshly installed copy of a Windows that was legally obtained and theoretically shouldn't contain any rootkits or backdoors.

Then fire up a frame capture and watch all the odd traffic flowing from the box, even after you turned off things like automatic updates and netBIOS to ensure you aren't picking up legitimate services.

Re:a first time for everything.

[spire3661]

Umm no. The geeks rose up about Microsoft back in the day because they tried to own the entirety of computing through a long campaign of malicious acts. Sure we hate paying licensing and the MS scheme is egregious, but thats not what evoked retribution.

Re:a first time for everything.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't give a shit if microsoft get information from my installation, it's accepted by the user in the EULA.

I just don't want microsoft to sell these informations, and youre scenario don't prove anything of the sort.

Re:a first time for everything.

[Anonymous Coward]

Now get to the point where that network data contains private information being sold to who knows where. Before you reply, make sure you know what an argument from ignorance is and why it's a fallacy. Because I'm pretty sure that's where you are going with this.

Re:a first time for everything.

[Opportunist]

Erh.... you might want to read this.

Re:a first time for everything.

[satanclause]

This is a first for Microsoft, protecting users' security.

FTFY

Re:a first time for everything.

[bleedingsamurai]

If you can't pin down every data stream spewing from a "pure" install of your operating system, can you be sure it doesn't have private information? A system that obfuscates it's operation is a system that doesn't protect end user privacy, just the privacy of anyone with a backdoor installed on it.

Heck, I can search the registry to see what websites you've visited, remotely if I wanted too, even after you clear your browser history and temporary data. Maybe Microsoft itself isn't violating your privacy but they sure make it an easy job for others.

Re:a first time for everything.

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, don't forget your blood pressure medication

Re:a first time for everything.

[Isaac Remuant]

I'm on a mobile device right now but can you point me on examples of such type of analysis that you'd consider credible?

Re:a first time for everything.

[Anonymous Coward]

It makes sense once you realize that the government is the user, we are the product

Re:a first time for everything.

[Anonymous Coward]

I worked at Microsoft until recently, and although in general I don't have many good things to say about the company, I do think they care about privacy. In general at Microsoft they are very concerned about the letter of the law, and about public opinion. They don't necessarily care about these things out of idealism or very deep beliefs, but there is a great fear of overstepping legal bounds.

Re:a first time for everything.

[Artifakt]

But how could anyone prove what you ask? You know where your info is while it's on your box. You don't know where it is once somebody else has a copy, by definition. How can anyone prove or disprove that something is or isn't being done by some other party who has surruptitiously gained a copy of the information without knowledge of the original owner? I can't prove what somebody who stole my car did with it afterwards, just as I can't prove what somebody who legally bought my car did with it afterwards.
              The question of how the property was obtained is still relevant. If Microsoft is sneaky about gathering the information, then it seems likelier that they are also using that information in various ways that don't respect my privacy. If Microsoft doesn't respect some parts of the social compact, then the odds increase that they don't repect others, and not serving as an agent of the police without abiding by the same rules as the real police are supposed to is one of those parts.
            I can't logically prove that Person X molests children, just because Person X has been found guilty of treason, bank robbery, beating his wife, and mopery with intent to gawk. Not being able to prove something, there, does it mean much at all in terms of what I should do?
 

Re:a first time for everything.

[UltimaBuddy]

Even evil has standards.

Re:a first time for everything.

[symbolset]

So you've never used Hotmail then?

Re:a first time for everything.

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't logically prove that Person X molests children, just because Person X has been found guilty of treason, bank robbery, beating his wife, and mopery with intent to gawk. Not being able to prove something, there, does it mean much at all in terms of what I should do?

Yes, but nowadays you don't have to prove that someone molests children, its enough to simply insinuate that they do. And then God help you if you happen to be male. Because, of course, women NEVER molest kids, do they?

Re:a first time for everything.

[hairyfeet]

Lets see your data, because if what you said was true then frankly you'd have the story of the decade, but of course it is more likely you are talking out of your tinfoil covered ass. Looking at my own Win 7 HP box, which has been running pretty much 24/7 since Oct 09, I have the browser, Steam running an update...and that is pretty much it. i have MSE checking every few hours for an update, but I'm not seeing a single thing that isn't from software i installed or authorized.

Now if you want to complain that MSFT won't take the right to install dumbshit then that's true, you can pile on the toolbars and fill your taskbar with a huge pile of shitware, but if you actually pay attention to what you install there will be VERY little traffic coming from your machine and all of it pretty obviously things you authorize, such as Windows time service calling NIST.

Re:a first time for everything.

[Anonymous Coward]

I want you to go home, turn off any thing on your network that might be sending broadcast traffic, fire up a computer running a freshly installed copy of a Windows that was legally obtained and theoretically shouldn't contain any rootkits or backdoors. Then fire up a frame capture and watch all the odd traffic flowing from the box, even after you turned off things like automatic updates and netBIOS to ensure you aren't picking up legitimate services.

Define "odd traffic".

I certainly thought it strange that there was a DNS request and then traffic to http://www.msftncsi.com/ncsi.txt when I brought the machine up. Plug in an Ethernet cable, and every Win7 box will phone home to see whether or not "http://www.msftncsi.com/ncsi.txt" contains a string saying "Microsoft NCSI", even if you're not running a web browser.

It's the way the little network icon "knows" whether you (a) have TCP/IP connectivity, and (b) can resolve DNS. It's used for network location awareness - despite the Orwellian name, it means "does your PC know it's plugged into a network". NCSI isn't some spooky buzzword beginning with "National" and having some conglomeration of Newspeak words typically associated with "CSI", it actually stands for Network Connectivity Status Indicator.

/tinfoil Or does it :)

I hate the fact that it's hidden from the naive user, because it looks indistinguishable from evil. It's fully documented behavior to the public.

For an interesting time, check out HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\NlaSvc\Parameters\Internet\EnableActiveProbing

The problem is, Windows isn't geared towards the middle ground of technical users who are smart enough to know how to use a network sniffer, and who know why unsolicitied network traffic should be treated as evil-until-proven-good, but not so completely obsessive as to know every Microsoft TechNet and KB article.

So please, define "odd traffic". It's very difficult to keep a Windows machine quiet on a network. I'd like to hear what others have discovered, so I can cross some of the others I've missed off the list. (I know there are other things that make routers wake up in the night.) But the quieter our LANs can be made, the less noise we need to filter out, and the louder we can set the alarm bells on the router or IDS.

Re:a first time for everything.

[DeathFromSomewhere]

If you can't pin down every data stream spewing from a "pure" install of your operating system, can you be sure it doesn't have private information?

Well good thing you read the link. I was starting to think I would have to explain it for you.

Re:a first time for everything.

[cavreader]

He uses the term "odd traffic" because he is too stupid to analyze and actually understand the traffic contents or purpose.

Re:a first time for everything.

[Anonymous Coward]

Irony, being that Microsoft's software is designed to log everything you do with the intent of using the "hidden files" on your hard drive to give a map to government officials, for what you have been up too... Same BS it always is.............Because the public is aware of this bill, MS will worry about attacks from hackers or john/jane doe public outcries..

I believe you pretty much said that.. Wanted to give an opinion on this!

It is always laughable to watch a company complain about privacy, when the company itself has destroyed countless software start-up innovations..... In the name of profit, or monopoly of an industry..

What is wrong with you americans?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously? What is wrong with you guys? How in the fuck did you even come up with a system where non related shit can be tacked on to a bill? Is it bullshit that got added on later or were your vaunted founding fathers slightly retarded?

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[bleedingsamurai]

A democracy only works when the public isn't mainly comprised of morons. I blame shitty public education.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[PPH]

I'm not sure this is a case of unrelated crap being tacked onto a bill (not that this doesn't happen all too often). This is a bill that deals with information sharing between law enforcement and private businesses. It's scope may prove to be much wider that what its authors claim. But its more a matter of unintended consequences of the legislation rather than some extra language being slipped in.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[Anonymous Coward]

It happened because the public is too involved making sure their party gets elected, right or wrong, to give a fuck about what their party is actually doing. This kind of thinking has all the trappings of a high school football game. The sooner that people abandon their party the sooner we get back to being where we need to be. The current division in American trust is split along party lines and even when both "sides" agree they refuse to come to terms because they see it as taking on the banner of the enemy.
 
People planet wide will suffer for what has happened for decades to come.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[betterunixthanunix]

I blame the fact that most Americans have no idea why their rights are important, or what life would be like without those rights. We are already starting to get our feet wet with this, but people need to be tossed in head first before they really understand the issues. When people are being asked for their papers before being allowed to cross state lines, when their search histories are scrutinized whenever they try to spend money, when it becomes impossible to live without breaking laws and bribing cops, then people will understand -- but by then it will be too late anyway.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[tommasorepetti]

yo anonymous coward, troll much?

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[Anonymous Coward]

A democracy only works when the public isn't mainly comprised of morons. I blame shitty public education.

you can't have shitty public education without shitty parents who see how shitty they are and still they refuse to homeschool.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[Anonymous Coward]

Here at work we refuse a lot of "homeschooled" they are most of the time egocentric moron whos superior education lack the social part.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[bbecker23]

Having met "homeschool parents" (I was homeschooled for a bit, growing up) I can honestly say that no matter how shitty the schools are, they are far and away better than most homeschoolers. It can be done well and with those people I have no complaint, but, in my experience, those parents are less concerned with quality education that with isolating children from "corrupting influences" or more thoroughly impressing religious doctrine in the guise of education.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[bleedingsamurai]

But I feel this can still come back to poor public education.
I was only required to take one "Civics" class really didn't have anything coherent to say.
It stead of forcing us to memorize the Bill of Rights they should have actually explained what they did for citizens. We didn't even break down the Constitution and discuss what powers are given to the Federal government and are reserved for State governments. ect. ect.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[Anonymous Coward]

It ain't a troll.

While that post was pretty flamebait-ish, the fact remains that there is a HUGE legal loophole that lets any fruitloop or someone with a lot of power to throw in unrelated laws to other laws before it gets signed off.
If done, it becomes law and can be enforced immediately.
It has been done before.
CISPA was amended and hurried in to a quick vote.

It sorta reminds me of that fruitloop admin on wikipedia who pushed so hard to get back at OldManMurray and done a quick vote in the deletion area and got it removed, and another I forgot the name of, all because his website made fun of him OVER A DECADE AGO. Man that was some pathetic nonsense.
Still, not as bad as CISPA people, they done pretty much the same thing here since the first attempts never worked out (just like that idiots first attempts to delete it for not being notable were)

It happens in the UK as well. In fact it even happened just there at Easter if I remember correct.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[the eric conspiracy]

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[rrohbeck]

As long as you have guns to defend yourself, what does it matter?

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[alexgieg]

I blame the fact that most Americans have no idea why their rights are important, or what life would be like without those rights. We are already starting to get our feet wet with this, but people need to be tossed in head first before they really understand the issues.

I remember a political text I read years ago in which the author was of the opinion that every democracy should experience a few years (or decades, as is wont to happen) of fascism to both fully appreciate the value of what's been lost as well as to learn what stupid mistakes to avoid next time around...

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[Opportunist]

The only problem I have with that is that it will be watered using the wrong fluid.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the biggest problem is that nobody agrees on what the problems and solutions are. Almost everyone agrees that there is a problem, but each of us has a different interpretation. Even here, where most are at least average intelligence, very few agree.

Some say the problem is the system, that it's corrupt from bottom to top. Some say the problem is the people, too engaged in bread and circuses to even realize that things around them are a crumbling. Some say the problem is that even if those people weren't distracted, they're too retarded to participate in political discourse anyway. Some say the problem is that the system isn't enough, some say the problem is that the system is too much. Some say the media is the problem. Some say that corporations are the problem. Some say that there's a shadow government pulling all the strings. Some say the banks are the problem. Some say the legal system is the problem. Some say politicians are the problem.

Each of these has some grain of truth to them. But the biggest problem is that if nobody agrees on what the problem is, no solution can be made. Diversity is actually more paralyzing than any of the forces above in this case. We're so far removed from the idealism that founded this country that it's questionable whether it's even possible to reconcile.

So what's wrong with Americans? Incidentally, the same thing that made us a potent global force. Diversity.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice one eh? As original troll, the dumbass responses are quite amusing. Duh uh what do i care we all got guns anyways? And meep meep if we just gave up our economic power to homeschool our precious children meep meep.

haha lol. Country of muppets lol

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[roman_mir]

We are already starting to get our feet wet with this

- starting? The only obvious difference between what's been going on for about 100 years in USA now and what's been happening since 9/11 is that before the transgressions against individual rights only hit minorities (employers and investors mostly but also other individual property owners), while what's happening now is hitting the majority (everybody else).

The rights of individuals were been compromised in USA for a long time now and when I say that I include the right to pursuit of happiness, as in - get the fucking government out of people's way to do what they can as long as they are not hurting other individuals in the process and that's what State criminal courts and civil courts are for. Everything, from government backing unions, printing currency and income taxes to minimum wage to SS and Medicare to wars to regulating every aspect of property and ownership under the sun, all of this has been compromising the principles of individual freedom, it's just that the majority was in silent agreement with those transgressions. Well guess what, eventually they come after you as well.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[bmo]

The quote doesn't say *whose* blood.

--
BMO

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[ColdWetDog]

I remember a political text I read years ago in which the author was of the opinion that every democracy should experience a few years (or decades, as is wont to happen) of fascism to both fully appreciate the value of what's been lost as well as to learn what stupid mistakes to avoid next time around...

Right. Because the US Civil war was such a wonderful experience and improved 'democracy' for all citizens.

Sorry, it's just a bit more complex than that. You just don't hit CTL-ALT-DELETE and reboot a society.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[BlueStrat]

I blame the fact that most Americans have no idea why their rights are important, or what life would be like without those rights. We are already starting to get our feet wet with this, but people need to be tossed in head first before they really understand the issues.

I remember a political text I read years ago in which the author was of the opinion that every democracy should experience a few years (or decades, as is wont to happen) of fascism to both fully appreciate the value of what's been lost as well as to learn what stupid mistakes to avoid next time around...

No generation of people, once their freedom has been lost, has ever recovered that freedom during that generation. The only hope at that point is to pass to the next generation a love and desire for freedom such that they rise up to defeat those who prevent it's flourishing.

Strat

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[BakaHoushi]

I'm not exactly fond of my memories in public school, but having met a number of homeschooled kids, I'm so very, very thankful I was not among them.

You hit it right on the head with the religious indoctrination. Most of these kids aren't taught by parents who, let's face it, are even LESS qualified than normal, public teachers. And they're not taught at home because public schools teach to the test, don't give all the resources and attention to students in trouble, or because of the lack of proper coverage of fields such as law (for at least a basic understanding of it).

It's because the science class covers the EVIL science of evolution. And because if there is, miraculously, a class on ethics and philosophy, it doesn't consist entirely of "God said this, therefore it is so."

I'm not trying to pick on anyone who considers themselves religious. You can believe in whatever deity or spirit or whatever as you please. But when you deny a child a standard-if-flawed education because it doesn't cater to YOUR beliefs (and let's face it, these people don't care that OTHER faiths aren't covered, just theirs), well, I don't quite have the words to express my horror here.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[BlueStrat]

Having met "homeschool parents" (I was homeschooled for a bit, growing up) I can honestly say that no matter how shitty the schools are, they are far and away better than most homeschoolers.

Hey look!

I can wave my hands around on Slashdot and make unsubstantiated and broad generalizations based on nothing more than anecdotal evidence that may or may not even be true.

But hey, if it fits the political group-think...

Strat

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[shoehornjob]

Seriously? What is wrong with you guys? How in the fuck did you even come up with a system where non related shit can be tacked on to a bill? Is it bullshit that got added on later or were your vaunted founding fathers slightly retarded?

We don't care that our government has been stripping away our rights and privacy for years because we are too concerned with stupid shit that happened on tv last night. I could go on but you all know the story.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[shoehornjob]

Actually the founding fathers had it right because they had to fight for their liberty. Now we only fight when the president declares war without approval from Congress. Fucking bush should have been impeached for that shit. All Clinton did was get a blow job and put his cigar where it didn't belong. Bush got several thousand people killed and they still hate us in the middle east.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[bbecker23]

I'm hardly hand-waving. Read the rest of my post (the part you didn't care to quote).

It can be done well and with those people I have no complaint, but, in my experience,

As a college educated individual in a STEM discipline, I'd feel perfectly confident with homeschooling in science or math courses. Have me try to teach a history class and the results would be comical at best. The idea that John Q. Public, with nothing more than a textbook for the class, can be as effective at education as someone with Masters (required in my state, YMMV) is indicative of the dismissive attitude we tend to take towards education.

Some notable stats: among homeschooling fathers, ~32% have "Some College/No Degree" or less. Mothers do slightly worse with ~33% having the same education level. If we include through BA/BS (which is unlikely to be in something relevant to teaching) the numbers are even more stark. At a time when we are demanding more of our teachers, are we also going to say that a few classes at the community college is sufficient to teach high school calculus?

Source

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[Dragonslicer]

The only obvious difference between what's been going on for about 100 years in USA now and what's been happening since 9/11 is that before the transgressions against individual rights only hit minorities (employers and investors mostly but also other individual property owners)

Because when I look at the history of the United States, and I consider the minorities that have at various times had their individual rights trampled, business owners and venture capitalists are the first on my list.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[Anonymous Coward]

It kinda does.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm with you brother! Can you spare dime? If you can I'll see if I can raise another 40 cents so I can call someone how might be able to explain the Unequal Protection afforded artificially incorporated business entities who now hold far greater sway over the U.S. so-called democratic republic than any feudal lord ever held over serfdom.

Since we don't teach European history very well, we may be doomed to reiterate it. Few people seem to remember that the Bill of Rights were the 1st 10 amendments to the Constitution which were the expressed limitations placed on the federal governmental power and authority or that they came out of legitimate concerns about the history of governmental abuse of power. Even fewer stop to realize that at the time, women, slaves and those that did not own 'property' weren't really considered citizen stakeholders.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[shutdown -p now]

... with Brawndo. Cuz it's got electrolytes.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[Anonymous Coward]

So because you had a single class that didn't explore things that would help you out later in life, you think that all public education is bad?

And, if you think public education is so bad, perhaps you can offer a better alternative that is available to all children/students for the same cost?

No? That's what I thought. Public education is exactly like anything else - [garbage in] students allergic to learning and a culture that doesn't appreciate being smart, [garbage out] graduates that don't want to apply themselves to any worthwhile endeavors like a post-secondary education or cutting edge research to advance their own standing among their peers, contributing to keeping their nation safe and free, and pushing the boundaries of human knowledge.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, employers and investors have been so hard done by in America.

Idiot.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[BlueStrat]

As a college educated individual in a STEM discipline, I'd feel perfectly confident with homeschooling in science or math courses. Have me try to teach a history class and the results would be comical at best.

So, because you find it too difficult to do the work to put together a competent lesson plan in History, nobody else can?

he idea that John Q. Public, with nothing more than a textbook for the class,...

In what world is "John Q. Public" limited to only "a textbook for the class"? There are tons of sources for course material, lesson plans, etc etc in nearly every conceivable subject and at nearly every level, many if not most done by those with Masters and PhD's.

Some notable stats: among homeschooling fathers, ~32% have "Some College/No Degree" or less. Mothers do slightly worse with ~33% having the same education level. If we include through BA/BS (which is unlikely to be in something relevant to teaching) the numbers are even more stark. At a time when we are demanding more of our teachers, are we also going to say that a few classes at the community college is sufficient to teach high school calculus?

Source [ed.gov]

Never mind the stats you quote are from the Federal Dept. of Education, and with the government's track-record of "massaging" data and stats making those numbers not entirely trustworthy, what about the stats (graduation rates, literacy/math skills, etc etc) for what all the wonderful Masters and PhD's have accomplished for all our massive spending sunk into public education? Shouldn't we then have the best education results if we've got such brilliant public school educators, if the fact of the teachers having a Masters or PhD is the determining factor in how good the results are?

Nobody is saying that having specific education in a subject doesn't help someone who teaches, all other things being equal, but it's not necessary, not by a long shot.

Between the Dept. of Ed's "one size fits all" policies and mandates, the NEA and teacher's unions advocating only for better pay and benefits for teachers with politicians who are spending other people's money and will be out of office before the results catch them up, but none of them advocating for or really caring at all for the students, it's small wonder that a modest effort by reasonably-intelligent parents who have the motivation of actually loving the child and wanting the best for them routinely for the majority far exceeds the results of the average public school education...your personal experiences, political ideologies, contempt for most people's intelligence and ability, and biases notwithstanding.

Strat

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously? What is wrong with you guys? How in the fuck did you even come up with a system where non related shit can be tacked on to a bill? Is it bullshit that got added on later or were your vaunted founding fathers slightly retarded?

Our vaunted founding fathers are DEAD. So who cares what they wanted? Right? Besides that was then, this is now. Them who has the gold rule. That's the golden rule.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[Tastecicles]

Newsflash: the Chinese now have most of the gold.

(in case you missed it, the last UK Government under Gordon Brown sold the 310 tons of gold in reserve to the Chinese at the 1925 Bullion Standard, which is £3s20d10.5/oz (or when he did it, a hair under £4). Nobody seems to know where that money has gone. I wonder if either the US preceded with a similar act or followed soon after?).

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[symbolset]

There's no such thing as a political system that doesn't become corrupt over time. It's the nature of men. The founding fathers were aware of this, and took steps.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[NeverSuchBefore]

So because you had a single class that didn't explore things that would help you out later in life, you think that all public education is bad?

Public education is awful because of the mentalities that rote memorization and teaching to the test are effective forms of learning. They're not, even if there is no other solution (but other solutions have been proposed).

Honestly, it isn't difficult to figure out why so many people don't find "learning" (really, it's "schooling") fun.

for the same cost

How lazy and short-sighted. Not even willing to consider an alternative that might drastically improve the public education system just because it costs more? No wonder no one cares about education.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[NeverSuchBefore]

they are far and away better than most homeschoolers.

[citation needed]

It can be done well and with those people I have no complaint, but, in my experience, those parents are less concerned with quality education that with isolating children from "corrupting influences" or more thoroughly impressing religious doctrine in the guise of education.

Honestly? With the focus on rote memorization and teaching to the test so prevalent in public schools, just about anything is better.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[VortexCortex]

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time.

With Brawndo! - It's what Plants Crave!
(It's got Electro-lights)

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[VortexCortex]

Teachers & Professors could easily be replaced by Youtube... Online discussion forums could replace classrooms -- We have the technology. Sadly, the bottom line is: People that want to learn will. People that don't won't... (...shouldn't have to?) It's kind of strange to me -- Do kids in other countries make fun of you for making good grades? I mean, making bad grades and being feared as a "hardcore thug", having a "fat roll" of money and many "bitches and hoes" for sexual parters was actually preferable to the kids in my neighborhood -- Those that scored good grades everyone made a point to pick on, even if they had a sex life and knocked a few skulls when needed (or if those poking fun made good grades themselves). I think it was part envy, but it was also part something else...

Perhaps we could start with the media industry -- I mean, I'm not using this as a cop out, truthfully -- The kids in my "hood" were certainly influenced by the glamorisation of an uneducated and morally corrupt criminal lifestyle by the celebrities in the media they consumed -- They literally idolized such figures even if they saw 1st hand what it meant to live in such a way. Identifying with the culture is one thing, but to a large degree I do believe it's the GIGO phenomena. I tried to understand why a thug's life was so glamorous that some of my friends wouldn't ever get tutoring, study, or even try to participate in class. There was plenty of poverty, hopelessness, and hardships, and everyone's done things they're not proud of, but there were also opportunities left untaken. It would be interesting to re-live that part of my life without the negative social pressures associated with education...

These same people who idolized thugs also frequently had a deep respect (or at least fear) of their parents. I wonder if their parent's were more directly involved with their education (with the backing of online resources) if they could have a greater influence than peer pressure? Perhaps if it were easier for the parent to administer the education at home? I mean: Some knowledge is better than none.

Then again -- Aside from reading and basic mathematics, most people I knew didn't learn much from high school -- Education beyond grade 9 was essentially worthless to even the successful of my peers. We rarely finished 1/2 a course's book by the end of the year, and I taught myself nearly everything I know without instruction (including programming and calculus). I wanted to learn.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[VortexCortex]

The current division in American trust is split along party lines and even when both "sides" agree they refuse to come to terms because they see it as taking on the banner of the enemy.

I see. So, it's quite clear... What we need is a common enemy. One who will unite the nation as one against the undefeatable diabolical foe....
-- Don't you see the Terrorists are TRYING to help?!

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[skids]

Ironically, one large reason we have public education here in the U.S. is to make voters competent to vote and self-govern.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[Anonymous Coward]

Never mind the stats you quote are from the Federal Dept. of Education, and with the government's track-record of "massaging" data and stats making those numbers not entirely trustworthy,

Oh well, if you feel that way then I guess it's true. Personally I don't know you so I'm not sure if your opinion should be considered equal to or better than government stats either. Fuck it, it's a free country and we can choose to believe what we want, right or wrong.

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[catprog]

as they are not hurting other individuals in the process

Employes say work all 7 days or your fired. Unions step in and protect the workers. the unions need protection too.

printing currency/income tax: how else are you going to build the infrastructure to run the country.

Minimum wages,SS and medicare stop people from being forced to work for low pay in bad jobs

Wars I probably would agree with you on.

property/ownership , I am not sure which regulations you have in mind. .

Re:What is wrong with you americans?

[BlueStrat]

Fuck it, it's a free country and we can choose to believe what we want, right or wrong.

Hello, that's precisely the point! Thank you!

The government wants to take away the freedom (that "free country" bit) to choose to not send your kids to a public school, to believe that yourself or someone of your own choosing can do a better job than the local public school with gangs and drugs and mediocre teachers.

The politicians get campaign contributions and other re-election assistance in exchange for highly union-friendly teacher's union contracts the public at large who pays for it would never agree to, but end up paying for, as the politicians are spending someone else's money. If people can simply walk away from the system, that hurts both the unions and the politicians, and limits their ability to siphon money out. They want to keep people locked in.

Strat

Microsoft can capitalize on this.

[tommasorepetti]

With corporate backers of CISPA including Facebook, there is room for tech giants to secure some quick PR gains in the tech community with this. I think many people found the Windows 8 developer/consumer preview underwhelming, if not annoying. Seriously, Windows without a Start menu? I'm starting to believe the Mayans about what's supposed to happen in December. What was more alarming about this Windows 8 business, is how closed Microsoft was to popular opinion. The Windows 7 RC generated massive contributions. (It actually did... I am not just citing the "Windows 7 wsa my idea" ad campaign.) It seems that Windows 8 was entirely Microsoft's idea. If they want to be numb to the complaints of their own fanbase and turn Windows 8 into the bastard child of a currently non-existent Windows tablet and a Windows 7 PC, that is cool... I run Linux anyway. I was only responding to the developer preview to help them out. I do not think political PR stunts like this can change the fact that Microsoft is turning into a corporation more and more out of touch with their own customer base. Seriously, try to explain to corporate America why a clusterfuck start screen of different apps helps productivity. Windows 8 may be the greatest giveaway to RHEL ever, and not even appealing to populist disgust with CISPA is going to change that.

Re:Microsoft can capitalize on this.

[Sique]

I'm starting to believe the Mayans about what's supposed to happen in December.

Completely offtopic, but you actually wouldn't believe the Mayans, because no single Mayan ever claimed that the world would come to an end, if a Long Period ends. This is just made up by some guys in other countries wanting to make a quick buck by selling "old myths of the navite people" books which predict dire doom to everyone.
If anything, the Mayan Calendar Doom is just intellectual colonialism - stealing some cultural artefacts and reselling them out of context to others.

On the other hand, Microsoft plans to sell their Cloud Services to Europeans too, and if they want to do that they have to make sure that their services follow European Law, and that means that they can't at the same time follow CISPA. If anyone of their european customers ever notices that their data is copied from the Microsoft Cloud, be sure that a big shitstorm of legal action will arise and deplete Microsoft of some serious money as a compensation.

Re:Microsoft can capitalize on this.

[betterunixthanunix]

On the other hand, Microsoft plans to sell their Cloud Services to Europeans too, and if they want to do that they have to make sure that their services follow European Law, and that means that they can't at the same time follow CISPA

They could just operate one data center in the USA and one in Europe, and serve both markets with the same software. In the early 90s, Microsoft was worried about Europeans not buying their products because the NSA was pushing for back doors; this time around, Microsoft only needs to separate their customers by region. They might not even need two data centers; just one, with a region column in each table that dictates which laws and privacy rights need to be respected.

Re:Microsoft can capitalize on this.

[Anonymous Coward]

Right...so basically you're a concern troll and a Linux user who thinks that Win 8 basically sucks. And you were modded up to 3 why?

Re:Microsoft can capitalize on this.

[game kid]

They can capitalize on this, if they try; they haven't tried yet. What they've said now isn't a reversal at all, just a clarification at best. They probably already think CESSPOOL^WCISPA "helps to tackle the real threat of cybercrime while protecting consumer privacy", or can be massaged a bit to do so--especially if it helps make them look tough on "piracy" of their software.

How does MS cap on this, to regain whatever goodwill they bled from their customers and not look like they'll happily whore themselves out to any anti-"piracy" bill (as long as they can arbitrarily pick who's an MS "pirate") or to any "social", "app", or "tablet" trend? Simples.

• Firmly and fully reject CISPA, ideally through a statement written and read in a public video by the CEO....ok, maybe not ideally by the CEO.
• Remove the OS-level Facebook integration (FB supports CISPA, after all). Bonus points if they include an easy-to-use Facebook domain blocker. (It's not like FB was paying them to do that...right? Right?)
• Announce that the released Windows 8 will be Metro-optional, and not have it on by default. (Forcing people to call tech support to figure out a dumb new interface Creates Jobs(tm) for all the wrong reasons.)
• Make a binding promise they'll never pull or abet something like what happened to that nonprofit group in Russia with the licenses, especially as part of a government's campaign against free speech or political opponents.
• Avoid doing silly patent shit, broadly defined.

Re:Microsoft can capitalize on this.

[tommasorepetti]

No, I like Windows 7 and still have an unwrapped copy of XP in case the world ends. Perhaps I should have said I use Linux and Windows. And yes, I think you will find that many people here believe that Windows 8 "basically sucks".

Re:Microsoft can capitalize on this.

[ColdWetDog]

still have an unwrapped copy of XP in case the world ends.

OK, I'll bite. I know a number of doomers / survivalists and they hoard all manner of odd things. But an unwrapped copy of XP?

Do Zombies really go apesehit over the buffer overflows? Will we need the unpatched security holes to traverse the now-radioactive Internet? Can you eat the packaging?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Re:Microsoft can capitalize on this.

[Sique]

No. CISPA requires (in its current reincarnation), that a U.S. company allows access to all its servers on a request based on CISPA, may they be domestic or overseas.
As such, CISPA collides with european requirements.

Re:Microsoft can capitalize on this.

[Anonymous Coward]

I was only responding to the developer preview to help them out.

Why the fuck would anybody want to do that? Micro$oft is not a very nice company in case you haven't noticed...

Re:Microsoft can capitalize on this.

[silentcoder]

>No, I like Windows 7 and still have an unwrapped copy of XP in case the world ends.

I don't see how the wrapping will help... there aren't many world-end scenarios where anybody will be enforcing copyright licenses anymore... well unless you take yours from the more extreme corporate-rule cyberpunk stories of the 80's - but those don't exactly count as "world ended" in my book, they are just "world radically changed for the worse".
Either way they didn't happen and probably won't. They were based on a premise of the governments disappearing (or at least becoming irrelevant) and corporations ruling the world - but that didn't happen, if only because the corporations found the government to be much too useful as a tool.

This is the same old pattern

[olsmeister]

They will keep putting forward bill after bill, chipping away privacy rights a little at a time if necessary. Any setback is merely temporary for them. Time (and money) is on their side.

What someone should be doing is introducing legislation that enumerates, codifies, and protects specific rights and expectations of privacy that citizens have, and then work the anti-terrorist/copying/IP laws around that framework. (I know, we shouldn't need to do this, but it's our system apparently.) This is bass-ackwards.

Re:This is the same old pattern

[betterunixthanunix]

What someone should be doing is introducing legislation that enumerates, codifies, and protects specific rights and expectations of privacy that citizens have

You would have to amend the constitution for that. Here is how I would word such an amendment:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Of course, there is no way anyone would dare to include such language in our constitution, at a time when we are surrounded by enemies who are hell-bent on destroying our nation. We could be attacked at any time; how can we even think of codifying such a right in our constitution?

Re:This is the same old pattern

[davester666]

Evidently, the gov't is incapable of properly crafting laws (or, more likely, intentionally leaving loopholes through which they can do anything they want).

http://it.slashdot.org/story/12/04/27/1529239/who-needs-cispa-fbi-has-a-non-profit-workaround

If it's this simple to 'get around' laws preventing the transfer of certain types information from business to government (by sending it through a third-party), or route internet traffic through Canada so the FBI can process everything (where they can't do it in the US). With phone calls going to IP, what prevents the FBI from doing EXACTLY the same thing with all phone calls (just route the packets to the nearest border, and all laws suddenly don't apply).

Re:This is the same old pattern

[Anonymous Coward]

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

For those of you who didn't get the reference, that is the 4th Amendment of the US Constitution, proposed in 1789, and enacted in 1791.

Re:This is the same old pattern

[Anonymous Coward]

Would people please stop pretending that ISPs are the same as their customers? Nothing that protects you or your stuff protects information held about you by some third party private entity. Pretending that this isn't "evil overreaching freedom destroying" legislation to restrict private entities from sharing data about you is foolish. Swallow the reality of the situation and admit that freedom is a balance, not an absolute of action.

Re:This is the same old pattern

[Anonymous Coward]

If it requires an amendment to your constitution you might as well give up all hope. A document like that is impossible for the american government to write in this day and age.

(Hint: If they tried to write it today, it would be much MUCH different.)

Re:This is the same old pattern

[Anonymous Coward]

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

(..."on the Internet" or "with a computer")

If the US Patent Office is any indication, our government has this strange ideology that meatspace isn't the same thing as virtual space.

Microsoft and Law Enforcement Agencies

[betterunixthanunix]

https://www.microsoft.com/industry/government/solutions/cofee/default.aspx

Note that this is exclusively for law enforcement -- law abiding citizens would presumably have difficult obtaining technical information or copies of this product (I doubt that criminals will have much trouble). The last line on that page is telling:

If it's vital to government, it's mission critical to Microsoft.

Re:Microsoft and Law Enforcement Agencies

[DeathFromSomewhere]

So you are going to point out some 1 line marketing snippet, take it completely out of context, and then extrapolate it to mean that Microsoft is selling private consumer data to various governments. Please elaborate because I feel like I'm missing something here.

Re:Microsoft and Law Enforcement Agencies

[betterunixthanunix]

Perhaps you missed the part about technology given only to law enforcement, which allows them to take forensic data from live systems -- technology that criminals will be able to study, but which is deliberately hidden from law abiding citizens. The point is not that Microsoft is actively handing data over, the point is that Microsoft is not going to stand up to law enforcement and say, "No, we are not voluntarily helping you." The opposite is true: Microsoft is giving away technology at no cost to help law enforcement gather data from computers.

Microsoft did show an iota of backbone when it came to the clipper chip, but times have changed. Now Microsoft wants to cultivate a friendly relationship with the government. Perhaps the OP was a little strong with calling this a "first" for Microsoft, but it is not exactly something that we should expect either.

Re:Microsoft and Law Enforcement Agencies

[Anonymous Coward]

I just read the link and saw the words "on the scene" multiple times. That means the police would already have a warrant.

  It sounds like this is just some USB stick with an autorun script that takes a dump of the memory. There might be more to it then that in fact I'm pretty sure there is; but the fact that you need physical access to the computer makes it a non issue as far as privacy is concerned for me.

Re:Microsoft and Law Enforcement Agencies

[blowdart]

Of course Apple and Google do the same things for their phone OSes. And then there's those god damn open source commies who want an authoritarian government - they must do, there are rather a lot of Linux based forensics tools. Microsoft is giving away technology at no cost to help law enforcement gather data from computers? So is open source. Get over your bad self.

Re:Microsoft and Law Enforcement Agencies

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Microsoft is giving away technology at no cost to help law enforcement gather data from computers? So is open source. Get over your bad self.

OSS forensics tools are available to everyone, and provided by people who generally believe in giving away their code. COFFEE is available only to law enforcement, and provided by a company which generally makes money from selling closed-source, proprietary software. Please don't try to pretend that the two situations are even remotely comparable.

Re:Microsoft and Law Enforcement Agencies

[Anonymous Coward]

And trying to pretend that this is somehow a privacy issue is misleading at best.

Ok If no one knows

[fermion]

To be sure, Microsoft's initial reaction to CISPA came before many of the privacy concerns had been raised. An anti-CISPA coalition letter (PDF) wasn't sent out until April 16, and a petition that garnered nearly 800,000 signatures wasn't set up until April 5.

So in other words MS was perfectly willing to allow the US government access to all it's customers data and machines without a warrant or any kind of reasonable probable cause as long as it was on the down low. But when it is publicized, they decide it is not such a s good idea. This situation leads credence that MS might already supply customer data on demand to the US government, so this is really SNAFU.

One Down

[Anonymous Coward]

How many to go?

Facebook suppots CISPA

[xiando]

other terrorist organizations who fully support this bill include IBM, Boeing, AT&T, Oracle, Symantec, Verizon and Lockheed Martin. I wrote a blogpost about the corporatoins being CISPA ages ago.

Re:Facebook suppots CISPA

[Anonymous Coward]

do you even know what terrorism even is? or do you just use scary words to get sheeple to your jackass blog? btw nice porn ad right in the middle of your article

Re:Facebook suppots CISPA

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck you, troll. Symantec is a terrorist group? Whom have they murdered, Motherfucker?

Too little, too late

[Anonymous Coward]

and of course, much like politicians, they need someone else to point out that the results are decidedly contrary to their customers' (or voters') interests.

the real sign that Mayans where is the cubs wining

[Joe_Dragon]

the real sign that Mayans where is the cubs wining but that does not look like it will happen this year.

But windows 8 is fast becoming windows ME 2. ME sucked so bad that people wanted 98se over it.

I do hope that some of the new under the hood stuff get's back ported or shows up in a Unofficial Service Pack like how the Unofficial Windows 98 SE Service Pack adds some of new stuff that was in windows ME.

I think...

[Anonymous Coward]

"notwithstanding any other provision of law,"

Find the person that wrote that part in the bill and shoot them as a trator!

End of story...

New Motto?

[formfeed]

Don't be evil all the time

Superceding all other laws

[Anonymous Coward]

This bill supercedes the US constitution. Its a blank cheque to the content industries. For Americans wanting anything left of their civil liberties, they should fight this. Americans send missiles, guns, ships, and bombs to other countries to protect their interests. Why is no one sending these materials to the content industries that have effectively enslaved them? The content industries can commit capital crimes (murder, slavery, torture, anything they like) because of this bill. They crossed the line. Its a disgrace to all those who fought in any war in the US. The gutless legislators who supported this sold the farm. They don't deserve citizenship. The US can no longer be called a democracy, because it isn't.

Re:Superceding all other laws

[Anonymous Coward]

The constitution doesn't protect your from third parties talking to the government. How about understanding the issue instead of defending what you imagine the constitution is?

Re:Superceding all other laws

[Anonymous Coward]

*sigh*

You've never heard of the spirit of the constitution, have you? The constitution isn't there just so the government can find loopholes that allow them to do what the constitution was blatantly intended to stop.

The first amendment is not interpreted literally. Otherwise, we wouldn't have laws on slander, libel, or any speech whatsoever. Why should the rest of it be interpreted literally?

Re:Superceding all other laws

[VortexCortex]

*sigh*

You've never heard of the spirit of the constitution, have you? ...

The first amendment is not interpreted literally. Otherwise, we wouldn't have laws on slander, libel, or any speech whatsoever. Why should the rest of it be interpreted literally?

Why? Well, since you asked: It's due to the one party system. You see, the Federalist party supported the spirit of the law, while the Democratic-Republican part (yes singular, "party") wanted the laws interpreted quite literally. Since the only major opposition to the Democratic-Republican party is gone, only the the literal interpretation party remains, and it happens to have a virtual monopoly on votes, so there's no way to vote them out. (They removed the hyphen so it wouldn't seem like a 1 party system).

Corporation != Voter

[Anonymous Coward]

Last I checked a corporation couldn't vote, so I am sick to death of "them" supporting and even writing Bills and donating money to politicians. So until a corporation can actually go to prison for it's misdeeds (like bribing public officials), they should stay the hell out of politics.

BE GLAD OF IT THEN... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

I am, it's actually GOOD to see they have enough character to 1st support something, then to see that users DO NOT WANT IT, & to back clear away from it too.

* See subject-line, if that's what you really feel is a "1st" from them then...

APK

P.S.=> You've got to understand that BIG & POWERFUL as M$ is (& I am definitely a 'fanboy' of theirs + everyone around here knows that much), that YES, they too, have been "hassled" by government & know what THAT's about, & turning THE REPUBLICANS http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2012/roll192.xml this way as they have?

Admirable!

It also proves they don't just "stay the course" when the OBVIOUS MAJORITY OF US DO NOT WANT THIS CISPA/SOPA/ACTA BULLSHIT...

As especially when our own politicians don't write it, & BIG MONEY DOES & they just "champion it" @ Big Money's behest, like a good dog would... wait until taxes don't get paid anymore & the big companies refuse to foot the bill & keep offshoring jobs... then, the politician dogs WILL TURN ON THEIR "PUPPET STRING MASTERS", mark my words on it...

(Which that type of CRAP? Yes, it has been going on forever, but seems to be coming to a halt because people ARE BECOMING CONSCIOUS OF IT & SCRUTINIZING THE HELL OUT OF CRAP JUST LIKE THIS - God Bless those folks!)...

... apk

Trust tech stories lately?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone else think it was one of the riders? One was attached to the bill that while proclaims to "protect privacy" actually expands CISPA even FURTHER than what was actually introduced. Jeez.

See #6...

um, what?

[Tastecicles]

Microsoft pro privacy? Last I looked their mainstay platform was vulnerable to keyloggers, backdoors (some installed during development at the behest of the US GOVERNMENT), over a quarter million malware strains... with those kind of numbers I don't think it was sloppy coding that did it, I think it was done deliberately. If they were concerned about security and privacy we wouldn't have an anti-malware industry that sucks in more money than the SOHO industry because it'll've been done right at RTM and there'd be no need for Symantec, Sophos, AVG or McCrappy.

Commence to modding down, but you know I'm right.

This is the #1 problem in America right now

[jonwil]

Forget the 1% vs 99% debate.
Forget the economic debates.
Forget the debates over healthcare, abortion, contraception, the environment, climate change, trade, copyright, patents or anything else.

The #1 issue in the United States of America is that there is a government and congress in Washington that continues to pass laws and carry out acts that violate the civil liberties and constitutionally protected rights of ordinary Americans, rights that George Washington and 100s of Americans fought to preserve.

And the American people are too brainwashed by TV news, newspapers and political propaganda to notice it and too busy watching Reality TV, and eating Big Macs to care.

Re:This is the #1 problem in America right now

[VortexCortex]

And if you do anything about it -- You're a terrorist.

Microsoft Backs Away From CISPA Support

[Turnerj]

"CISPA, the hotly-contested cybersecurity bill making its way through Congress, has been supported by Microsoft since it was introduced..."

Ok, I will admit that I am a Windows user and I don't find Microsoft the worst company on the planet though something seems weird with this. Just because they have stopped supporting it now citing "privacy", we are meant to applaud them? They initially supported it so while it might seem like a good move now, the didn't have this problem a week ago.

It might be an attempt at clever marketing or something to take the talk off what doesn't seem like a good new version of Windows but this is stupid. They knew exactly what they were doing when they started supporting it. Not that I don't think companies wouldn't do a move like this, it is just annoying how dumb they think we are.

Consequences for Anti-Public bill

[CarlosOnline]

A list of every congress person and senator who votes for this bill should be compiled and put onto a Black List. Then informed voters can let them know that they will be voted out of office next elections for actions against the People of the United States

No it doesn't

[Anonymous Coward]

The bill itself is simply illegal. Language like "notwithstanding any other provision of law," can't be included because of the fact that it goes against pre-existing laws. You can't just make up a bill that invalidates all other laws, that's not how it works. I'm surprised that it's gotten this far.

Microsoft denies softening of CISPA support

[Anonymous Coward]

http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/224587-microsoft-denies-softening-of-cispa-support