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1 World Trade Center Becomes the Tallest Building In NYC
darthcamaro writes "On 9/11, terrorists took the lives of thousands of Americans — and removed a pair of icons from the New York City skyline. For the last 10+ years, The Empire State Building was the tallest building in NYC, but that changed today. 'Poking into the sky, the first column of the 100th floor of 1 World Trade Center will bring the tower to a height of 1,271 feet, making it 21 feet higher than the Empire State Building.'"
You mean, not forgetting the 3.000 people who died as opposed to the 100.000 who died in the shameless wars after? Fuck you.
I actually don't understand the importance of not forgetting. It seems like a nice enough thing to say, but I want a genuine justification for why it should be remembered, as opposed to mourned and then moved past? I know this sounds incredibly cynical, but I think the United States penchant for remembering tragedies and not achievements is unhealthy for the national psyche in the long run.
Why shouldn't this be forgotten?
I think it's high time we got over it.
I also think it's high time we got rid of the Patriot Act and the TSA
-- Like that would ever happen --
So go ahead shrieking "9/11 NEVER FORGET!" To remind us how we let the terrorists win.
Because they did.
Try not to feel like a criminal the next time you undress yourself at the airport while waiting in line to get your nads zapped with a healthy dose of radiation.
Yes being 21 feet taller than the tallest building in that city must have added so many huge technical challenges. Sure its impressive, but this isn't about impressive technical challenfes, its a nationalist hooray for us. Its drivel.
9/11 was a tragic event, but never forgotten? Why? what does remembering it teach us? I don't see any important lesson in it. Bad shit happens? Sometimes a few dedicated people will fuck shit up for other people?
Much more to remember is peoples terrible overreactions which continue to this very day. 9/11 was pretty forgetable compared to the backlash it caused. Compared to the massive expansion of govenrment securituy apparatus, compared to the exercises in airport security theater? Meh, 9/11 itself was just a few guys bringing some buildings down and killing a bunch of people.
There really isn't very much impressive about it, it wasn't even a repeatable strategy, as before the day was out. The ONLY reason it worked in the first place was because passengers were expecting a normal "hostage situation" hijacking, where it made sense to stay in their seats and wait for the situation to be resolved. By the end of the day the whole plan was useless to try again.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
There's a difference between "remembering" and "obsessing over".
We still "remember" Pearl Harbor. We still "remember" the Alamo. We still "remember" the Boston Massacre. But I'm pretty sure very few people are still angry at Japan/Mexico/Britain, and I'm pretty sure we're not going to use them as casus belli anytime soon.
Britain still "remembers" the Gunpowder Plot. France still remembers the Bastille. Both of those events are centuries in the past, yet they are still worth *remembering*.
There's nothing wrong with *remembering* that these things happened. There *is* a problem with obsessing over it and continuing to use it as justification for everything from invasions to the TSA. For example.
PS: We *do* remember achievements (the Apollo program, etc), even some we didn't really accomplish (who single-handedly beat the Nazis? We did!).
Many of those 10,000 supported the demise of the 3k, so I'm just fine with that.
The perpetrators were mainly Saudi, they trained in Afghanistan and the US public links all this with the war in Iraq - where a shitload of innocent people died, probably all of whom had nothing to do with 9/11. And even in Afghanistan a bucketload of innocent people died.
Iraq body count
Civilian Casualties in Afghanistan
But I can't seem to find a link for a war in Saudi Arabia, or the number of civilian deaths there.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
Many of those 10,000 supported the demise of the 3k, so I'm just fine with that.
That's a morally problematic stance to take. First of all, what's "many of those 10.000"? 1.000? 5.000? Let's say 5.000 for the sake of avoiding harder math. Ok, so the next step would be to take you and 16.665 like-minded individuals (plus a midget), put them in a group with 16.666 random people (plus a midget) and kill the whole group.
And I think the bluntness of the AC didn't really convey what I find to be a valid point: you should remember the ramifications. The most important lesson to learn, here, is that 9/11 didn't end with the building coming down. It resulted in much more people (including a lot of non-combatants) getting killed in two wars, an enourmous economic crisis, creation of the Patriot Act and the TSA etc. The reaction to the event was arguably worse than the attack itself, and if people forget about that and only think "honor our 3.000 and fuck the terrists", they are only fostering the kind of exploitable us v. them mentality that led to this political and economic nightmare to begin with.
Yet April 19th came and went without a mention. On April 19, 1995, the Alfred P. Murrah Building was destroyed when 4 American terrorists exploded a cargo van full of explosives. 169 people died including 19 children under the age of 6 and over 680 people were injured.
People said we shouldn't forget the Oklahoma City bombing... yet we did...
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
--George Santayana
That is why. Also, I don't know what history books you read, but the US history books I studied included the achievements too. They just aren't brought up as often (and usually are associated with tragedies, since those are the times when achievements become the most significant).
But leave out the things that cast the U.S. to unfavorably, unless it is politically correct to do so (as with slavery). For example, the British burned the White House, but you'll rarely see a word in U.S. history books about the U.S. burning the houses of parliament in Canada first.
-- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
You kill 3,000 of ours, we'll kill 100,000 of yours.
When did we kill 100,000 Saudis?
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Did you see the interview with the architect?
He looked like his kids had been killed, and I suppose they were. He was talking about how it was actually designed to withstand the impact of a 707, which was the biggest plane at the time. Building it to withstand a 747 would have been the equivalent of designing to withstand the impact of the Space Shuttle.
I did see that, and I thought he got the raw end of the deal.
It was designed to withstand a fully fueled 707 at 250 knots speed (maximum legal speed under 10,000 feet). This accounts for accident scenarios, airplane lost in fog, etc. Design request was partly due to a B-25 Mitchell bomber that actually hit the Empire State Building in similar conditions, impaled itself in the building.
It actually withstood the impact of a fully fueled 767 at over 300 knots speed (maximum ramming speed). It remained standing for several hours.
Neither tower toppled over immediately after impact.
In both towers, people below the impact point were able to exit, and rescue workers were able to enter and try to evacuate the injured.
Had there been enough helicopter support, it might have been possible to extract some of the people above the impact point.
It was not able to withstand the impact plus the fire, including failure of the fire pipes and the division of fire personnel between multiple damaged buildings.
Had it been an accidental impact from a cargo 707 in the fog, I doubt that the stricken tower would have been left unscathed, needing only paint, windows and new carpeting. It would have taken a partial to complete rebuild of that damaged tower, and there would undoubtedly have been deaths / entrapment for occupants.
In short, show me a building that can take the impact of a modern airliner without being completely obliterated immediately. Then show me one that is still standing after being on fire for several hours. I think the original WTC did a great job of staying upright as long as it did. A design failure would have been the top third landing on the street, while the people were still figuring out which way to run.
In fact, thinking back, the building's foundation was strong enough to withstand a truck bomb in a van, several years prior. So I personally think the designer got it right, it's just that the terrorists raised the stakes higher than ever imagined.
This is a perfect example of the root cause of everything that is wrong with the USA: supremely arrogant, utterly self-deluded, smugly imbecillic and profoundly ignorant feeling of the Universe revolving around your ass.
From what I've seen traveling around the world (something that I am sure you did not deem necessary to form your opinion) is that if anything, your numbers are actually reversed: for every naive goofus who sees USA as a potential saviour, 5 see it for what it is: a self-important empire whose distinguishing feature is hypocritical pontification about "freedom" and "democracy" while depriving anyone who has something it wants of freedom, property and frequently life all the while propping up convenient dictators and absolute monarchs (see also: Saudi Arabia) all over the world.
And your general attitude just illustrates the point gloriously.
Comedy gold. What was the last time anyone other than thieves and would-be robber barons hoping to profit from misery of their fellows actually asked you to show up and blow their country to smithereens in the name of "saving" it?
Or were you trying to be sarcastic by pointing out how USA rigged the world financial markets for its own benefit? Or more precisely for the benefit of its top 1%, who - amusingly enough - are these days busy abandoning what they sense is soon to be a rotting corpse of a has-been empire for some greener pastures...
You kill 3,000 of ours, we'll kill 100,000 of yours. Do that often enough, maybe people will learn not to fuck with us.
It's when both sides start using this logic that things get really fun.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.