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Cash For Tweets and Facebook Posts? Aussie Startup Pays You to Astroturf

Posted by Unknown on from the mcdonalds-makes-the-tastiest-burgers dept.

An anonymous reader writes "While the celebs are already charging big money for their Tweets, an Aussie startup is ranking everyday people and turning them into product salespeople. After a successful start Down Under they have now hit Silicon Valley, but will Americans embrace selling to their friends?" From the article: "In a nutshell, individuals sign up to the Social Loot website and are assigned companies to promote to their circle of online friends. They are then paid on a sliding scale based on the amount of traffic their posts generate, and the quality of referrals and number of resulting sales. This is tracked by a code embedded in the links promoted by Social Loot’s spruikers."

34 of 156 comments (clear)

  1. This should be considered illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is advertising. It is also a lie. That's fraud, plain and simple.

    1. Re:This should be considered illegal by niftydude · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You make a good point. When the Alan Jones cash for comments scandal broke, he got absolutely slammed in court for not disclosing who was paying him to promote various things on his show.

      The same should apply to tweets. They are broadcasts, and so the people making them should disclose whether it is advertising or not.

      --
      You can never know everything, and part of what you do know will always be wrong. Perhaps even the most important part.
    2. Re:This should be considered illegal by Cryacin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sounds like the Twits and Facepalmers have a Web 2.0 version of Amway to me. Friends selling to friends (about to be former friends).

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    3. Re:This should be considered illegal by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 2

      Since when is pitching products illegal. It's not something I'd do to my friends for products I don't believe in though.

    4. Re:This should be considered illegal by Endovior · · Score: 2
      If it worked as well as all that, you might have a case for 'fraud'. But in practice... it really doesn't. It's a fundamental principle of marketing... though people are pretty stupid, they aren't quite as stupid as you'd like them to be. If you go around advertising to your 'friends' on a regular basis, they WILL catch on, even if you try to be sneaky about it. And then you'll have less friends, and you'll have less people to advertise to. You can mitigate this somewhat by being selective, and not bothering everyone you know every time you get an offer... but if you do that, then you're seriously limiting your own effectiveness, and probably not making worthwhile money, unless you're VERY good at the selectiveness, and have particularly rich and gullible friends (unlikely). So you either crash and burn right away by doing too much or too little, and even if you try to strike a balance, you'll scare a bunch of people away regardless. As such, your job really ends up being a little bit of "think up clever advertising strategies", but mostly "make lots of new friends quickly to replace the ones you've alienated by vomiting ads all over them". This latter is called 'networking', and in practice, the other people who are doing it are in more or less the same line of work you're in. This is, not incidentally, why most of these things wind up becoming multi-level deals; networkers are inherently parasitic, and they can't really succeed without having some way to take advantage of the contact circles of lesser networkers. To actually make a living off this line of work, your job has to be "sucker other people into alienating their friends by pushing services on them for your own personal profit"; to get rich off it, your job has to be "find people who are good at suckering other people, and sucker them into working for you".

      Given all that, you might argue that MLM's should be illegal (a worthy argument, but too much money behind them to make it stick). Compared to such juggernauts, small fries like Social Loot, that offer neither the multi-level structure nor all that much in the way of payouts, are hardly a blip on the radar. Seriously, they're hiring people to put more spam on Facebook. It's like pissing into an ocean of piss. It works, of course, because they only pay for results. Like with any internet ads, there won't be all that many. Essentially, their business model is "convince people to betray their friends for pocket change". And there'll always be more then a few assholes out there willing to do just that.

    5. Re:This should be considered illegal by similar_name · · Score: 4, Funny

      What's the problem. This sounds like a revolution in web 2.0 synergies. You win and your friends win by getting vital decision making information regarding the brands they already love. For more information just follow this link?spammer=on&friends=off

    6. Re:This should be considered illegal by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This has nothing to do with selling product. This is all about corruptly flooding forums with trolls, thousands of them. The marketing and promotional lie is selling products to friends the reality is poisoning every possible social network with an endless stream of bullshit marketing.

      How long will an social site's last when you have a couple of hundred thousand trolls flooding the site with links, desperate to collect a couple of cents per click.

      The guy is nothing but another mass trolling pig. Doesn't give a crap about people's social interactions, quite happy to bring them all crashing down, basically he wants to become a social forum spammer and that's what the arse hole is selling to corporations.

      You can filter out some IP's but not hundreds of thousands of scattered ones, you can block robots but not hundreds of thousands of pathetic greedy ignorant trolls.

      A purveyor of lies on a mass scale. Of course the trolls he employs will become the most hated people on the internet, kicked out of social network after social network.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    7. Re:This should be considered illegal by million_monkeys · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You make a good point. When the Alan Jones cash for comments scandal broke, he got absolutely slammed in court for not disclosing who was paying him to promote various things on his show. The same should apply to tweets. They are broadcasts, and so the people making them should disclose whether it is advertising or not.

      Or you could just not be friends with people who will spam you with crap so they can earn 8 cents a week.

    8. Re:This should be considered illegal by joocemann · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You dont understand ho astroturfing works. The goal is transparency and deception. Astroturfing appears as opinion, but is actually scumbag capitalism.

    9. Re:This should be considered illegal by EzInKy · · Score: 2

      I admit I'm very impressed! I know I'm sticking my neck out depending on the eyes of many others to verify that open source programs such as libreoffice respect privacy, but you relying on the output of a disasembler to reveal all potential downfalls of a program all by your lonesome far exceeds my meager abilities. My hat is off to you!

      --
      Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    10. Re:This should be considered illegal by MiG82au · · Score: 2

      Oh fuck no. Don't you start making "site" a homonym for seeing things (sight).

    11. Re:This should be considered illegal by wannabgeek · · Score: 2

      Are you telling me that this is gonna kill Facebook and Twitter? Really? REALLY?
      Naa, you're just saying it to make me happy!

      --
      I'm much more funny, interesting and insightful than the moderators think
    12. Re:This should be considered illegal by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2

      The point is that the entire of goal of astroturfing is to make it as hard as possible to distinguish astroturf from genuine opinion. If you can't tell the difference then you can't unfriend only the astroturfers. Especially when the astroturfer realyl is genuine 90% of the time and only schills on rare occasion.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    13. Re:This should be considered illegal by Plunky · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Are you telling me that this is gonna kill Facebook and Twitter? Really? REALLY?

      In previous years, usenet was a social gathering ground on the internet.. being unmoderated was its strength, but also its weakness and Canter & Siegel started a movement that killed it eventually. This has the capability to kill off twitter and facebook sure, but since they both have a controlling entity who could institute moderation then perhaps they can stave off demise by some quick thinking..

    14. Re:This should be considered illegal by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 3, Informative

      This one relies on embedded codes in their URLs to measure their effectiveness ; it wouldn't be difficult to detect.

    15. Re:This should be considered illegal by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative

      How do you know Microsoft Office respects your privacy, do you have access to the source?

      You don't need it. It runs on your local machine, so you can check every network connection that it makes and, more importantly, you can trivially prevent it from making any network connections.

      From what I've heard Microsoft at the very least keeps track of the hardware on which you run its software.

      And the reason you know this (it's related to Windows Update, not MS Office specifically) is that people did intercept the data sent to Microsoft from Windows Update and found out exactly what was being sent.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    16. Re:This should be considered illegal by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      It's just a matter of time til everyone knows twitter is for suckers that want to read a bunch of really short astroturf

      About minus four years?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    17. Re:This should be considered illegal by tbannist · · Score: 2

      The guy is nothing but another mass trolling pig. Doesn't give a crap about people's social interactions, quite happy to bring them all crashing down, basically he wants to become a social forum spammer and that's what the arse hole is selling to corporations.

      The world you're looking for is capitalist or "job creator" if you're Republican. This is practically the history of corporations. Find a new untapped resource and spoil it for everyone else by monetising it in the filthiest way possible until the "evil government" steps in to protect people from the "upstanding businessman" who is "creating wealth".

      I fully agree with you, Facebook and Twitter will be entering a war with companies like this if they know what's good for them. This is really no different from the endless SEO war that is waged against Google's search engine. There are always people willing to ruin it for everyone else so they can personally benefit.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    18. Re:This should be considered illegal by jpapon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Right, because there are only two alternatives, pure capitalism and communism. Brilliant.

      --
      -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
    19. Re:This should be considered illegal by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      You don't have to, there's various "un-shortening" and "URL lengthening" services, along with plugins for pretty much every browser, available that do it for you, often fully transparently.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  2. on a totally unrelated unbiased note by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Social Loot has the best service to offer so far. We testet all the available options besides Social Loot and Social Loot is the winner for us. Social Loot.

    1. Re:on a totally unrelated unbiased note by Chuck+Chunder · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If only there was a website where you could pay people with mod points to mod for you.

      --
      Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
  3. Ah, excellent... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    According to TFA, this 'social loot' nonsense requires some sort of affiliate ID baked in(presumably to the usual bit of gibberish at the end of the URL) for tracking the spamming performance of their little minions.

    With any luck, this should allow automated recognition of people who are astroturfing for these guys and it's always good to have a new way of identifying awful people. At a service level, the astroturf can then be removed, downranked by search engines, etc. At a personal level, we can each do our part by reminding those culprits we know that spammers are abhuman scum who go to the special hell, and deserve it.

  4. In Britain... by DemonGenius · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... this kind of business would be called "Shilling For Shillings".

    1. Re:In Britain... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Funny

      In the US, we can call it 'Prostituting for Pennies'.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  5. Block It by LordLucless · · Score: 4, Informative

    I don't know about Twitter at least, but on Facebook, all the posts came from the Social Loot application. It took all of 5 seconds to "block all posts from Social Loot" to my wall, and now I need never know of its existence (except for Slashdot - thanks guys).

    --
    Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
  6. No more trust. by ZorinLynx · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Great. So now when a friend or acquaintance says something nice about a product or service, I won't be able to trust their opinion because I won't know if they were paid to say it or not.

    Nice job polluting Twitter and other sites with stupid marketing and more distrust in what people say. It's freaking bad enough already.

  7. Good for them! by Guppy06 · · Score: 2

    If social media websites are making a mint off of harvesting personal information, it's high time their users started seeing some money as well.

    It's up to the service providers to police their own services, and I feel no pity for them.

  8. Just unfriend such so called "friends" by grantspassalan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    After politely warning them to cease such activity. I cannot understand why there are so many people that want to involve the government in everything, which is what happens when you advocate something you don't like should be made illegal.

    --
    A sufficiently advanced simulation is indistinguishable from reality.
  9. Cash in no matter what? by zAPPzAPP · · Score: 2

    Anything I write must tickle at least someone's fancy.

    Either I like a product, it makes the company happy, or I don't like it, it makes their competition happy.

    So either way, I should get my money right? No need to get influenced by money.

    Can I cash in retrospectively for all the things I ever wrote? There must be a lot of money in there. Just need to pitch it to the right 'clients'. $_$

  10. Quickly Squelched by silverhalide · · Score: 3, Insightful

    People have a very low tolerance personal space intrusions. People on the whole have a pretty decent intuition on whether someone genuinely is recommending something vs. is being paid to do so. People also have a pretty good intuition on figuring out who is a paid shill. Anyone who seriously tries to make money from this will quickly find themselves without friends. I can't think of a single friend of mine that would tolerate this shit on their feeds. I hope this gains traction as it will be a quick and easy way to thin out the online social circle.

    If this catches on (it won't), you'll just end up with a circle of technically ignorant folks circle-jerking each other for ad revenue while the rest of us get on with our lives.

  11. Let the advertisers know what you think by mb.72 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I just emailed Minidisc Australia and Social Loot sales this email:
    ---
    Hi guys

    I'm a previous customer of yours (I purchased a Cowon J3 a couple of years ago, order no 40580), and previously I've recommended other people buy stuff from you.

    I note that you are now using Social Loot advertising (having come across this company via slashdot post):
    http://www.socialloot.com/minidisc_australia

    My opinion is that the kind of 'shill advertising' promoted by Social Loot is about as low as it gets. As a result, I will:
    a) no longer be recommending you, in fact I will be recommending against purchasing from you (and will explain my reasoning regarding the use of Social Loot)
    b) no longer consider you for future purchases for myself

    I realise I'm just one person. However, I am the 'go to guy' for a number of relatives and friends for technology matters, and based on past experience I am pretty sure that this will cost you a sale every three months or so. Over the course of one year I would estimate lost revenue at AUS$500 - AUS$1000.

    If you stop using Social Loot advertising I will be happy to reverse my decision on this matter. Please note I've also cced this email to the Social Loot sales email address - unlike them, and apparently you, I am fine with being honest about my opinions.

    Regards

    Mike Both
    ----
    If enough people do this, it could make a difference.

  12. This is obviously spam-for-hire by Arrogant-Bastard · · Score: 4, Informative

    I recommend taking the following steps to defend your operations against spammer Gary Munitz:

    1. Block all email to/from socialloot.com. (This might need updating if they register additional domains to avoid blocking. A very common spammer tactic is to use sequentially numbered domains, e.g., example01.com, example02.com, example03.com.)

    2. Firewall out 122.252.6.0/24. Make the block is bidirectional so that nobody on your network can reach their allocation. (This will probably need updating if they receive an additional allocation.)

    3. If you run a DNSBL or RHSBL, list the domain and the network allocation. If you maintain a list of spammer/phisher/abuser domains, add the domain.

    4. If you run an ISP or similar operation, make it a policy that any user participating in this scam will be terminated immediately. Same for mailing lists, web forums, newsgroups, etc.

    5. Do not hire anyone who has ever worked for socialloot.com. Make sure that words spread that working for spammer Gary Munitz is toxic.

  13. Re:oh no here come shills, by MrAngryForNoReason · · Score: 2

    I don't see how any of that is different from having an annoying friend who constantly goes on about his business or keeps handing you leaflets every time you see them. Just tell them you aren't interested, if they keep doing it then tell them it is annoying and ask them to stop. If they don't stop then they are obviously so obnoxious you are probably better off not being friends with them anymore.