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How Accurate Were Leonardo Da Vinci's Anatomy Drawings?
antdude writes "BBC News answers how accurate were Leonardo da Vinci's anatomy drawings — 'During his lifetime, Leonardo made thousands of pages of notes and drawings on the human body. He wanted to understand how the body was composed and how it worked. But at his death in 1519, his great treatise on the body was incomplete and his scientific papers were unpublished. Based on what survives, clinical anatomists believe that Leonardo's anatomical work was hundreds of years ahead of its time, and in some respects it can still help us understand the body today. So how do these drawings, sketched more than 500 years ago, compare to what digital imaging technology can tell us today?'"
.. especially considering he's an anthropomorphised turtle.
OR...he was an alien.
Ezekiel 23:20
Has anyone seen his uncensored drawings? The ones that show human pollination. They are the height of Renaissance kink! I now understand "bees", but where do the birds come in to play?
Or he just cut up a lot of dead bodies to get the dimensions right. The only difference now is that we can look inside someone without them having to be dead first.
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The biggest insight I gleaned from the article was when the author described da Vinci's approach to anatomy as being that of an engineer's and an architect, and how that perspective allowed him to interpret the body structures he saw. Remember high school biology dissection labs? Or if you studied anatomy in college, remember the profound disconnect between seeing a perfectly laid-out diagram of an organism, versus actually going in and dissecting one in reality? You think that when you cut a creature open, that you'll see some version of those drawings just sitting there in front of you, labeled and color-coded and all structures clearly defined. Instead, I acutely remember my surprise when cutting open a rat, a frog, and an earthworm, that all I really saw at first was a jumbled pink/brown mess of innards. Things moved around, didn't have the shape I thought they would, and if someone hadn't already drawn the diagrams I would've been at a complete loss as to how to describe what I saw, let alone try to make an anatomically faithful reproduction of it.
That should give you a better understanding of just how amazing da Vinci's observational skills were.
Being dead has never been a prerequisite for that, mind you.
Ezekiel 23:20
What?
Betteridge's Law of Headlines is an adage that states, "Any headline which ends in a question mark can be answered by the word 'no'".
For the record, the article concludes that Da Vinci's drawings were better in some respects than the 19th century editions of Gray's Anatomy.
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Alien? I think he was a time-traveler unable to fix his machine and then just made the best of it.
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Can any headline which ends in a question mark be answered by the word 'no'?
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Yet another demonstration of how an illustration by a skilled artist can explain complex structures, mechanisms, and phenomena that cannot be readily photographed. Even computer rendering rely on modelers, animators,and lighters who can take messy, chaotic 3D scans and mocap data and clean up it , analyze and stylize it into a form that shows what's really vital. DaVinci's high accuracy renderings also serve as a prime example to refute David Hockney's outlandish claim that renaissance artists could not have achieve their results without the aid of optical projection tools.
The rule should be: "any headline which ends in a question mark and which starts with a verb (or a noun/pronoun perhaps also?) ..."
If the first word is "how", "why", "when", "where", "who"... the words "yes" and "no" make no sense as an answer. Oh, you knew that already?
Robert A Heinlen - "The Door Into Summer", the character was a grad student of the scientist who invented the time travel machine, named Leonard Vincent. Don't remember the scientist's name, don't remember the protagonist's name, just remember that the protagonist invented CAD - called it "Drafting Dan."
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
All this AND he came up with a whole code that 500 years later would make a bestselling book and movie.
AND he helped Ezio Auditore fight off the Templars....
The guy was truly prodigious.
How can i answer? Although i am a Doctor and from what i see in the BBC video and the article, the drawings are agreeably hundred of years ahead of his time. In my humble opinion the work done by Leonardo Da Vinci seeded the understanding of Antomy.
Seems like a lad with a gift like this would've amounted to something.
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Seems you can answer headlines starting with "when" with "no" as an answer that makes sense.
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I hate that fucking show, oh it was fine for a couple seasons but now were seeing dead boyfriends and supernatural experiences blah blah blah bullshit
Agreed, but she was talking about the 19th century editions of Gray's Anatomy.
Which is a new spin-off, taking place in a Victorian steam punk universe : They use morphine for almost any operation, but only if they like the patient, sniff cocaine to get rid of the cold, and discuss female hysteria in the break room. Oh and the dresses, you should see the dresses.
.. especially considering he's an anthropomorphised turtle.
Why would anyone mark this offtopic?
I remember watching a British mystery where a little kid told the visiting art expert that he liked Leonardo so much better than Michelangelo or Donatello.
The guy thought that the kid was a genius.
Irrespective of their quality, Da Vinci's drawings did little at the time to challenge the use of Galen's work (which was based on dissection of animals and therefore quite inaccurate). That particular bit of heavy lifting was done by Andreas Vesalius, who not only debunked Galen, but was also the first to publish a comprehensive work on anatomy (De Humani Corporis Fabrica). His work has repeatedly been found to be highly accurate, especially considering the conditions under which it was produced. An amusing side note is that it was so well regarded it was extensively pirated.
;) since Galen studied it.
Vesalius made a lot of enemies by going against what amounted to the medical establishment of the time. After repeated challenges his critics actually resorted to the howler that the human body must have changed (evolved?
Vesalius has always been a personal hero of mine - a guy who developed an interest in an an important area (anatomy), and pursued it, at great personal cost, with as much thoroughness and rigor as could be had at the time.
The drawings of da Vinci influenced our understanding of how the body is put together.
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Actually due to religious beliefs at the time if he was caught dissecting corpses he would have been imprisoned and most likely executed. So his research was done at much peril.
"Don't Panic!"
Clearly you've not done much dissection. Besides being perhaps the greatest artist of his age, virtually invented from whole cloth 2 and 3 point point perspective, hyper-realistic painting, chiaroscuro, anatomically/proportionally correct artwork (look up the "Grotesques"), he was probably one of the greatest scientific minds of all time. His vision, perception was unrivaled. He sketched water flowing over rocks and captured eddies and micro-currents that we can see today only in super high speed stop motion photography. He broke down the relationships between math and the universe. He observed that art was science and that science was art and that everything was mathematics. His inventions are brilliant even by today's standard. He invented the glider, the helicopter, the tank, the submarine, and a thousand other things we'll never know about.
His dissection and further record of human anatomy was inspired because he saw the engineering of the human body, and appreciated the brilliance of its design. He was able to discern function from form and so rather than simply capturing an amorphous blob of body matter (what you or I might see), was able to distinguish critical structure and functional anatomy and record it in such a way that the information imparted rivals techniques and illustrations based on technology 500 years later. More than a genius, he transcended his own time by centuries, and points to a human potential that is at once shocking and exciting.
he's still around. this happened to him:
http://xkcd.com/810/
I imagine if a doctor went around digging up bodies without permission and dissecting them, he would be imprisioned even today.
I think ultimately I agree with you. But I was wondering about this question today, having seen it on Slashdot.
How is it the da Vinci was able to get over the "gross factor"?
Most of us living in modern times would, given the chance, not want to cut up corpses. This must serve as a sort of deterrent to the activity of studying anatomy at all. Maybe you can say that for centuries we didn't understand anatomy because centuries worth of would-be da Vincis were too grossed out to cut open these people.
And yet da Vinci seems to have managed it. What does that say about him as a person? I'm not sure it's all good. I'm thankful that today we can look inside of a person without them being dead.
Or he just cut up a lot of dead bodies to get the dimensions right.
It's not as easy as you think. Think of spaghetti code made flesh: Spaghetti nerves, spaghetti arteries, veins everywhere... And then there are the variations. No two bodies are wired exactly the same, especially after they've been cut open. Even with modern references and anatomy books, it takes a lot of studying to make sense of a cadaver.
The summary exaggerates a bit by implying we can still learn anatomy from Leonardo's sketches. Sure, they're prettier than the sketches adorning the walls of my dorm room (I'm a medical student) but they're nowhere near as accurate as, say, Netter's Atlas of Human Anatomy. Leonardo had a lot of systems wrong, especially where female anatomy was concerned. His work was amazing for its time, but we've done much better since then.
My absolutely uneducated guess is that people were more used to disgusting smells and sights in those days. People would slaughter, skin and butcher their own animals. Meat was stored for a long time. People shat everywhere. People didn't know how diseases were transmitted.
So I think it wasn't as gross to him as it is to us.
His work was amazing for its time, but we've done much better since then.
As they say in the article, his work was 300 years ahead of its time. However, its time was 500 years ago, so we've advanced well beyond it.
This is assuming it's actually being run by them, and not by someone who for some reason wants to kill them off via this exact reaction. (disclaimer: I know nothing about this "gamemaker", so I could be horribly wrong).
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Vivisection is such an interesting word, isn't it?
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Hell, there might have been a tanner down the street. I'm sure he wouldn't have known if there was shit on his nose, what with that overpowering odor prevailing.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
So what they're saying, is that using modern technology, they can confirm that these drawings, long known for their accuracy and detail, are, in fact, accurate and detailed. Amazing.