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Jury Rules Google Violated Java Copyright, Google Moves For Mistrial

eldavojohn writes "Details are thin, but the long-covered Oracle v. Google trial has at least partially been decided in favor of Oracle. The jury says Google violated copyrights with Android when it used Java APIs to design the system. Google moved for a mistrial after hearing the incomplete decision. The patent infringement accusations have yet to be ruled upon."

24 of 475 comments (clear)

  1. Time for the Judges ruling? by niado · · Score: 5, Informative

    Does the judge now have to rule on whether API's can be copyrighted?

    1. Re:Time for the Judges ruling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes.

    2. Re:Time for the Judges ruling? by bws111 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Those APIs are providing access to a service. They are not charging for using the API, they are charging for the service. Not the same thing at all.

    3. Re:Time for the Judges ruling? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Funny

      The real fun begins when Alan Turing's vengeful ghost returns to assert that his invention of the stack renders all implementors of push and pop infringing...

    4. Re:Time for the Judges ruling? by harrkev · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, I, for one, support Google.

      They are in the business to sell advertising. If you do not buy advertising, then you have probably never paid a dime directly to Google. I hate to say it, but invading privacy is just part of the business. How MUCH a part of the business is definitely open for debate, however.

      It is a balancing act. No invasion of privacy = no money. Too much = evil.

      I admit that everything that they have done has NOT been perfect, and there have been many mis-steps. However, for a company of their size, they do indeed manage to be the least evil. To me, Apple is very very evil. Microsoft is evil. Sony is evil. Google is fairly benign.

      Name another company that size that is as friendly to open source software. Name another one that gives you as much stuff for free (yes, I know -- paid for by advertising to you). Name another company that actually CARES about not being evil. Apple and Microsoft simply care about the bottom line -- period.

      No, Google is not perfect, but they could be a LOT worse, and they seem to actually care.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    5. Re:Time for the Judges ruling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      The real fun begins when Alan Turing's vengeful ghost returns to assert that his invention of the stack renders all implementors of push and pop infringing...

      ...only to have its ass kicked by the ghost of Ada Lovelace, who has an even lower ID.

    6. Re:Time for the Judges ruling? by flimflammer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The truth doesn't need to be pleasant to be informative.

    7. Re:Time for the Judges ruling? by binarylarry · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Google didn't, Apache did. Google just used Apache Harmony's standard library.

      What groups funded/helped with the Apache Harmony project? IBM and *Oracle*.

      Now Oracle is suing Google for using the software that *Oracle* helped develop, because they bought the original implementation and want a cut of the Android money.

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    8. Re:Time for the Judges ruling? by poetmatt · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Tons of laws? Tons of sanctions? Show em.

      Where did they break the law with the wifi thing? Hint: they didn't.
      Where did they break the law with the competitiveness thing with keywords? hint: they didn't.
      Where did they break the law with the Oracle case? Hint: it's not even over, and already indications show that they didn't. Also total liabilities in the $0 range are significant.
      Where did they break the law with the youtube case? Hint: they didn't.

      How many more do we need? Do you even know what you're talking about?

      If anyone's about to come into sanctions, it's going to be Oracle for the statements they made to acquire sun in Europe being completely contradictory to the claims they're making in the Oracle v Google case.

    9. Re:Time for the Judges ruling? by drakaan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Maybe so, but this case has nothing to do with those abuses. Google took Apache Harmony (you know, a free, open-source, Apache-licensed implementation of the Java APIs...not GPL, but still open source) and built Android.

      Sun was happy about it, Google was happy about it, the Java language got more widely used...

      Oracle had a different point of view, wanted money, and had trouble convincing a jury who was *told* to assume that the APIs were copyrightable that the few remaining copyright claims Oracle brought were valid.

      ...also, in Europe, they just decided rather definitively that APIs are not copyrightable.

      The worst part of this all is that now we go on to the "patent" part of the trial, which is just silly because we're talking about software (turning one number into another number based on a set of rules...aka an algorithm, which is not patentable subject matter).

      --
      "Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
    10. Re:Time for the Judges ruling? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well, according to RIAA math, that would leave Knuth with a net worth greater than the planetary GDP; minus legal fees for a litigation process so vast that every copyright lawyer on the planet would have to be conscripted in order to settle it...

    11. Re:Time for the Judges ruling? by Rennt · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, he directed to jury to find if Google is guilty of copyright infringement assuming the API could be copyrighted. If the jury found Google not did not infringe, the court would not have to rule on the validity of the copyright of API... saving the court's time.

  2. With the judge by phorm · · Score: 5, Interesting

    IIRC, the judge instructed to have the jury come to their decision based on the concept that the material in question could be copyrighted. The judge still has the final says as to whether the material *CAN* be copyrighted. That's still a big if for this case, so it's not over yet.

    1. Re:With the judge by elashish14 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Right. The EU has already decided that APIs are not copyrightable and wrote an extremely reasonable and balanced explanation as to why:

      The object of the protection conferred by Directive 91/250 is the expression in any form of a computer program, such as the source code and the object code, which permits reproduction in different computer languages. On the basis of those considerations, the Court holds that neither the functionality of a computer program nor the programming language and the format of data files used in a computer program in order to exploit certain of its functions constitute a form of expression. Accordingly, they do not enjoy copyright protection.

      To accept that the functionality of a computer program can be protected by copyright would amount to making it possible to monopolise ideas, to the detriment of technological progress and industrial development.

      So maybe there's still some hope left... otherwise we'll just have to hire lawyers to write the software of the future.

      --
      I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
  3. Not what it sounds like by rewt66 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The jury was instructed that APIs were copyrightable. They found that Google infringed Sun/Oracle's Java API. But the judge will actually decide later whether APIs are in fact copyrightable (which question will almost certainly go to the Supreme Court before it's all over).

    So what the jury actually decided doesn't mean much. It means that Google copied the Java API. Well, yeah, we knew that already.

  4. "In favor or Oracle?" by miltonw · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From Groklaw: "The judge has stated, pending judgment as a matter of law, that there is "zero finding of copyright liability" other than the 9 lines of code to which Oracle's damages report attributes no value."

    In other words, a very good day for Google, not Oracle.

    1. Re:"In favor or Oracle?" by stephanruby · · Score: 5, Informative

      In other words, a very good day for Google, not Oracle.

      Here is the link to the Groklaw updates about this case.

      It would have been a lot slimper and less confusing if Slashdot had just linked to that in the first place.

  5. Ugh, no, they didn't. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The JUDGE said "based on the assumption that SSO's are copyrightable" make your rulings.

    In no manner are SSO's (or API's) copyrightable at this point.

    It is all to give the Jury a baseline from which to make their own decision.

    Does anybody really read these things before making up headlines, or is sensationalism the only way to get eyeballs,
    nevermind understanding?

  6. Re:The Ruling Wasn't About Verbatim Copying by msobkow · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Copying the "structure, sequence, and organization" of the Java APIs is the definition of implementing an object-oriented interface, regardless of the specifics of the implementation.

    The article is also incorrect when it says Android is the "only" project/product impacted by the decision. There's this little Apache project that wrote the code Android uses, so every product or project which relies on that code is affected by this ruling. They just haven't been sued yet.

    The essence of this ruling is that publishing something under open source means nothing if the copyright holder later changes their mind. And that is the biggest blow to the software industry that could have been levelled by any company for any reason, because it affects over 75% of the systems which implement the infrastructure of the internet.

    When (not "if") this idea is propagated to the POSIX APIs, the C-library interfaces, the C++ standard libraries, and a host of other open source products and packages, the whole industry is fucked!

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  7. Re:The actual code infringed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Wow, copy and paste fail. Now with HTML entities
    From http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~martin/webrevs/openjdk7/timsort/raw_files/new/src/share/classes/java/util/TimSort.java, here are the 9 lines of code that google is accused of infringing:

            private static void rangeCheck(int arrayLen, int fromIndex, int toIndex) {
                    if (fromIndex > toIndex)
                            throw new IllegalArgumentException("fromIndex(" + fromIndex +
                                                  ") > toIndex(" + toIndex+")");
                    if (fromIndex < 0)
                            throw new ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException(fromIndex);
                    if (toIndex > arrayLen)
                            throw new ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException(toIndex);
            }

    The code boils down to: if (x > y || x < 0 || y > max) { error(); }
    Tell me how you'd write the code differently. (Keep in mind that the engineer who wrote this, Josh Bloch, used to work at Sun, then moved to Google. It's very possible he rewrote the code in the exact same way, given its triviality.)

  8. Another take on the verdict; glad I read Groklaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    A view with a greater understanding of the implications, Groklaw believes otherwise: "The judge has stated, pending judgment as a matter of law, that there is "zero finding of copyright liability" other than the 9 lines of code to which Oracle's damages report attributes no value. A good day for Google overall."

    Read it yourself and decide: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120507122749740

    Judge Alsup asked both parties to answer a list of questions, following the EU High Court decision that APIs are not copyrightable expression: "1. If the Copyright Act is meant to protect expression but not vocabulary, should the vocabulary and grammar of a computer language be copyrightable, as distinct from programs written in the language? In this regard, please comment on the May 2, 2012, decision of the High Court of the European Union." The Judge will rule as a matter of law whether the SSO of the APIs are copyrightable.

    The only website that seems to always get the legal pulse right is Groklaw.

  9. GNU/Linux by tepples · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The issue is that Google set out with j
    The Java API manual and recreated them ALL with the same names and function calls, etc... That's pushing it even for open source projects.

    As opposed to Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman starting with the UNIX manual and painstakingly recreating all the APIs?

    1. Re:GNU/Linux by Dracos · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or Miguel de Icaza starting with the .NET framework documentation and creating Mono?

  10. this is important actually by poetmatt · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is google's direct chance to get the whole software -> patents thing invalidated. Many have been unwilling to fight for getting such a ruling, but I would bet a lot of money on google setting this up to invalidate patents on software.