Slashdot Mirror
Universities Hold Transcripts Hostage Over Loans
Hugh Pickens writes "Dave Lindorff writes in the LA Times that growing numbers of students are discovering their old school is actively blocking them from getting a job or going on to a higher degree by refusing to issue an official transcript. The schools won't send the transcripts to potential employers or graduate admissions office if students are in default on student loans, or in many cases, even if they just fall one or two months behind. It's no accident that they're doing this. It turns out the federal government 'encourages' them to use this draconian tactic, saying that the policy 'has resulted in numerous loan repayments.' It is a strange position for colleges to take, writes Lindorff, since the schools themselves are not owed any money — student loan funds come from private banks or the federal government, and in the case of so-called Stafford loans, schools are not on the hook in any way. They are simply acting as collection agencies, and in fact may get paid for their efforts at collection. 'It's worse than indentured servitude,' says NYU Professor Andrew Ross, who helped organize the Occupy Student Debt movement last fall. 'With indentured servitude, you had to pay in order to work, but then at least you got to work. When universities withhold these transcripts, students who have been indentured by loans are being denied even the ability to work or to finish their education so they can repay their indenture.'"
And the bubble continues to press against the thumbtack.
I have a feeling this collapse is going to be bigger than anything we've seen yet. Dot Coms or Real Estate be damned.
This is the kind of thing that happens when you allow the government to get in the middle. I am just glad that I didnt make the mistake of getting into the mess of student loans. There really is no excuse for what is going on here
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Considering almost no one pays for college without loans today, any college whose students could not get loans would be dead in the water. That gives a lot of leverage for banks to "ask" colleges to play along.
Then there is the unspoken truth that most of these degrees are worthless. If banks ever released official statistics on what degrees from which colleges resulted in the most defaults, it would hurt a lot of programs. (and immensely help out prospective students, but who cares about that?)
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
You can't work until you start paying us back and you can't pay us back until you start work.
Seems a bizzare way of organising things. In the UK you can't pay back your student loans until you earn a certain minimum wage and then it starts to come out from your pay like a tax as a percentage of your wage. And like the summary says it is the government who hold the debt, not the individual Universities/colleges. If they really want to stop the problem of defaulting then surely it would make more sense to reduce the number of degress that didn't have much job prospects, rather then block the people with degrees from getting jobs.
This seems like a great way to get alumni to donate when they eventually do start making good money. The affected alumni are not going to harbor any resentment at all.
If I was a lawyer I'd look at this as a Great opportunity to file a class-action lawsuit. As the summary states the colleges are not owed any money, therefore they hve Zero grounds to hold hostage the record of the students 4-5 years. They are committing a crime (charged money but did not provide the final document promised in the contract).
Go for it Mr. Lawyer.
Rape the bastard colleges.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
She concedes it's a difficult issue but says that "it's the only tool we have to make them pay."
A music major ... was making payments on his $62,000 student debt after graduation while working as an adjunct professor for Temple.
So we have institutions lending $62,000 to majors that have terrible job prospects, then when they can't get jobs they don't know how to get the money back... okay. How about don't lend that much money to someone who you can be pretty sure won't pay the money back? I know higher education should be accessible to all and this and that, but perhaps 62 grand for a degree in music should give us pause to reconsider a) why does a degree in music cost 62 grand and b) why does someone want to spend 62 grand for a degree in music.
I can partiall answer b). I was at a advisory board meeting for my university's CSE department recently, and some undergrads were asked the question: "So what is tuition now?" No one could answer. They don't even KNOW that they are paying $40k+ a year in tuition. This is because they don't even look at their bill. They fill out the fafsa, press a button, sign some papers, and get free money that gives another year of partying. The reality only hits them AFTER they graduate and look back at their full bill. This attitude on the student's side has got to stop
There's also the attitude on the institution side, that they can loan someone $60k for a degree in basket weaving and reasonably expect to get it back. This has to stop as well, but I don't know how to fix it.
Who is muddying these waters?
The schools have been paid, have they not? That's the whole point of a loan - lender pays now, and you pay the lender.
And, as others have said, it's a little short-sighted to stand in the way of those in debt, since the best way for them to pay off those loans is to be successful. Again, that's the whole point.
Any institution engaging in this sort of behavior is way out of line. In fact, it's rather rare to see such a clear-cut case of wrongdoing when it comes to financial/political entanglements.
Back off, universities. You are not moral guardians, gatekeepers, or creditors. You are educational institutions, and your obligation is to the students, not to whatever twisted group of people suggested you monitor you alumni for credit score violations.
A declining credit score is already one hell of a millstone - like weight gain, it's much easier to damage your score than improve it. The last thing we need is universities undercutting those students who need their credentials the most - those who essentially gambled a portion of future success on the hopes of a beneficial education. Do they want us to pay our loans off or not?
they should have no interest in doing so
They have a very big interest in student loans; without affordable loans the number of students would drop dramatically. Students who don't pay back their loans are costing everyone who does make their payments extra in the form of higher interest rates. Instead of getting a big attitude, try working with the system instead of against it.
Wow 60% huh? I'm guessing because you're shunning ignorance and embracing science, that you simply hit enter before actually providing us with the source for a number. I mean, what kind of a idiot would base such a bold statement on his mere feelings.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Seriously, show me the debtors prisons..
The American education system itself isn't that bad. It's not the best, but it's not the worst, either.
One huge problem is that the schooling (schooling, not education) centers around rote memorization and teaching to the test. How things work, why they work, how to apply them... those kinds of questions are nonexistent in most cases.
you really need to think things a few steps further down the road.
I think it's you who need to think more.
Universities are in the business of educating.
How the hell is anyone supposed to be educated in anything, if they can't get any hands on experience?
Washing the dishes in the University food court is just as valuable of an educational experience as sitting in the classroom taking notes. Working in the university printing room is certainly worthwhile. So is maintaining a university email system....etc etc. Outsourcing all this stuff is absolutely the wrong thing for an institution of higher learning to do, if they actually value education.
I put all three kids though the UNC system, Chapel-Hill, NC State and Greensboro + grad school with no debt to me or to them. Maybe NYU and the Ivies and Columbia and all the rest need to re examine the efficacy of charging ridiculous sums of money especially in this economy. And increasing rates at 2x the rate of inflation year over year over year every year for the last 30 years. Maybe students need to re examine the efficacy of getting an MFA in post modern Marxist-Anarchist-Lesbian critical literary theory when literally the only job they can get is teaching that to the next crop of like minded students. Maybe parents need to stop enabling their kids to do whatever they like wherever they like for whatever it costs when it doesn't cost the students anything or they've convinced themselves that going a hundred thousand dollars in the hole is no big thing because they're a special snowflake and somebody somewhere will swoop in to bail them out. I got news for you. Anyone who MARRIES someone with huge student debt is an enormous idiot. So all the snowflakes should all work that crap out before they move on to the next phase of their lives, which no doubt will be moving in with their parents for Adolescence II, The New Beginning.
I have zero sympathy for anyone involved in this, just like the janitors who took out liar loans on half million dollar houses and now cry to Mother Government to bail them out because the banks went broke selling smoke and bullshit to EACH OTHER. Jesus Christ in a shopping cart does ANYONE bother with due diligence anymore?
See, the thing is ... you don't know what you're talking about. As it turns out, maintaining e-mail, groupware, etc., is mind-numbingly tedious and incredibly difficult to do right with a high level on uptime for thousands of folks in dozens of departments. There are pitfalls everywhere. And the one thing you absolutely can't do is let students anywhere near this infrastructure. Seriously, are you nuts? There's so much protected and confidential data all over these systems, that letting any random student near it is asking for a disaster. And are you really advocating letting untrained, inexperienced students (Otudents? Really? Are you even thinking at all?) maintain mission-critical services?
Actions do have consequences. Letting students anywhere near University infrastructure is an incredibly bone-headed and naive mistake just begging for random outages, data loss, and horrifying lawsuits.
Asshat.
When education, to escape the McDonalds job's pay...
Step 1: Finish highschool
Step 2: Pick a trade, something fun but challenging.
Step 3: Get ticket, and work for someone for awhile.
Step 4: Quit, use all those contacts you've been building up for the last 6-7 years and start a business of your own.
Step 5: Hire an apprentice or two, then run the business.
Step 6: Enjoy the money.
I still find it funny that the majority of people on /. think that the only way to get good money is to have a university education. Skip it, get a trade.
Om, nomnomnom...
Woah... That was an epic Slashdot circle jerk. You managed to bag on all the elitist neckbeard enemies in one post. Hipsters, gangstas, religious fanactics all in one post and blame them for something completely unreleasted you got upvoted to Score:4 Interesting! Congratulations!
When a society fails, fear is created. Fear of failure, unemployment, homelessness, destroyed relationships and depression. We are now seeing the results of our government's change to the laws that favored wall street and moneyed interests. The last bastion for personal confidence after all has failed is religion. What we are seeing now is just the tip of the iceberg for the chaos that is coming .
If students at the University of Utah where I studied Physics can run one of 33 teaching nuclear reactors in the U.S., I'm pretty sure letting them near an email server would probably be OK. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705368841/University-of-Utah-has-own-nuclear-reactor-tucked-away.html
When I was working on a CS degree, one of the work study jobs a number of people in CS could get was computer operator on the campus computer system, which in fact gave them the keys to the kingdom. Unsurprisingly, the world didn't end as a result, nor were the operators grades ever 4.0 across the board.
-- Terry
Golly. That's quite scary. 60% - or more! - of Americans who deliberately reject a useful education? Naturally, you have the statistics and references to back this up, unlike those other fools.
Actually, could you please provide your references for, umm, well, basically everything after the first three sentences?
without affordable loans the number of students would drop dramatically.
Without student loans, the price of education would drop dramatically.
Inexpensive, readily available student loans have the same effect on the cost of education as inexpensive, readily available home loans did on the cost of property during the housing bubble - they give the purchaser far more purchasing power than they would normally have, resulting in the price of the product being bid up much higher than its value.
We're trapped in a vicious cycle - education is perceived as "too expensive", so we give out loans to students so they can pay for education. Then prospective students, collectively armed with more money to pay for education, then bid up the price of education, making it too expensive.
A good way to look at this is imagine someone is selling a car that you want to buy. The car costs $10,000, an you only have $2,000 but you need it to get to work, so you'll take out a loan to buy the car. Then, the government comes along and decides to give a free $10k loan to whoever buys the car. What happens? Now a whole bunch of other people can buy the car too, so the dealer raises the price to say, $12,000.
So now instead of a $8k loan with market interest, you have to get a $10k loan with discount interest. Didn't make the car any cheaper for you, but the car dealer made an extra $2k off the taxpayer.
Student loans are working the same way - they use taxpayer dollars to inflate the cost of education, raising the costs to both students and the taxpayer.
What's worse is, just like we had no standards on housing loans leading into the housing bubble, we have no standards on student loans either - virtually any student can get a loan, even if the school they are going to go to is a degree mill where graduates see no increases in employement opportunity (as measured by low loan repayment rates), or they are getting a degree where the expected salary can not justify the loan cost. (i.e. tens of thousands of dollars in loan debt for a degree in a career path with $30k top pay.)
We would be far better off if we eliminated student loans entirely, allowing the costs of education to fall and people would once again be able to afford to pay for an education with a job while they are in school, instead of having to pay for their education for 20 years after school.
paintball
"...the University can reduce its costs by outsourcing email. That in turn increases the amount that the people working for the university can pay themselves."
FTFY
Unless you can show that this actually results in lower student fees, which I doubt.
blindly antisocialist = antisocial