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DDR4 RAM To Hit Devices Next Year

angry tapir writes "Micron has said that DDR4 memory — the successor to DDR3 DRAM — will reach computers next year, and that the company has started shipping samples of the upcoming DDR memory type. DDR4 is more power-efficient and faster than DDR3. New forms of DDR memory first make it into servers and desktops, and then into laptops. Micron said it hopes that DDR4 memory will also reach portable devices like tablets, which currently use forms of low-power DDR3 and DDR2 memory."

21 of 233 comments (clear)

  1. Would have gotten a FP except by Barbara,+not+Barbie · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... I'm still stuck on good ole DDR2

    Realistically, while there are benefits for "faster", it's no substitute for reducing inefficient bloatware.

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    1. Re:Would have gotten a FP except by Dorkmaster+Flek · · Score: 5, Interesting

      True, but I'm actually more interested in the supposed power savings. These days, I think reducing power consumption is a higher priority than increasing speed, or at least it should be.

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    2. Re:Would have gotten a FP except by vyhd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "The most amazing achievement of the computer software industry is its continuing cancellation of the steady and staggering gains made by the computer hardware industry." - Henry Petroski

    3. Re:Would have gotten a FP except by Barbara,+not+Barbie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, one way we can reduce power consumption is to go to operating systems that aren't as bloated. If you've tried the Windows 8 Consumer Preview, you already know that Windows 8 isn't just the worst product Microsoft has ever made - it's also bloatware. Microsoft would be better off making an XP 2014 release and selling it.

      The same with LXDE as opposed to bloatware like KDE.

      Another thing is screen savers - not only not needed, but a total waste of energy. Just have the OS turn the stupid screens off ...

      There's no excuse for today's machines, with cpus that can execute more microcode per clock tick, being capable of executing 1,000 times more instructions per second than the original pc, to be as non-performing as they are.

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    4. Re:Would have gotten a FP except by eviljolly · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Luckily we're getting both. I just purchased a video card that's twice as powerful as my current one, and only uses 2/3 the power. I'm upgrading from a CPU using up to 130W to just 77W, but still gaining 20-25% performance.

      Those are some good jumps in performance, but great leaps in efficiency. Total power consumption is a big factor moving forward in trying to reduce what we need from the grid.

    5. Re:Would have gotten a FP except by cpu6502 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      LXDE == Lubuntu Linux?
      Good release.

      >>>capable of executing 1,000 times more instructions per second than the original pc

      Heh. More than that. The IBM PC was 4 megahertz? And now we have double-clocking where CPUs execute instruction on both rising & falling edges. And dual-core CPUs are now standard, so 3000*2*2/4 == 3000 times faster. And yet as you pointed-out we still have to deal with annoying "wait" states while the PC thinks or redraws a screen. Bloat.

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    6. Re:Would have gotten a FP except by Barbara,+not+Barbie · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I'm currently posting from LXDE+Knoppix (boot off the dvd image, load the actual runtime + persistent data off a hard drive image on /dev/sda1 because linux distros have a nasty habit of breaking stuff on updates). Set up with zero swap, and the only real problem is the memory leaks in Iceweasel, same as in firefox under every other distro.

      Instead of competing on features, why not have a 6-month moratorium where people just fix current bugs? It would make everyone more conscious of bad practices that lead to bugs in the first place, hopefully reducing future breakage (and slow/fugly code to work around buggy cruft).

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    7. Re:Would have gotten a FP except by CajunArson · · Score: 4, Informative

      How does crap like this get modded insightful? Oh wait.. it's because it plays up to the bigoted prejudices that prevail on this site.

      1. I've actually used the Windows 8 preview on a 4 year old PC and it is more responsive than Linux for desktop use. I don't like Metro, but everything under the hood in Windows 8 is in very good shape and some changes to the UI could make it a good successor to Windows 7.
            People on this website who brag about being Linux "experts" because they got Ubuntu to boot one time should know the difference between the UI presentation layer and the underlying OS services. Unfortunately a bunch of self-proclaimed "experts" who troll this site are anything but.

      2. I also use KDE on the desktop and I've used LXDE. Guess what? KDE is faster for my use because of the ability to reconfigure its setup. I don't want or need a taskbar to switch between apps, and because of KDE's flexibility I have a very efficient keyboard shortcut system in place to handle window management. Additinally, yakuake gives KDE a big edge for handling the konsole in a smart way and guake (which cloned yakuake) is still not as good.

          Firefox under KDE starts up in the same amount of time as on LXDE.. and so does every other application I try. Windows don't move faster across the screen on LXDE either and they resize at the same speed on both desktops!

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    8. Re:Would have gotten a FP except by Kongming · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually, I am running the Windows 8 Consumer Preview on the same hardware that I was previously running a clean XP installation, and Windows 8 is definitely snappier, plus has better search/launch functionality. I can't say that I am particularly fond of the Metro UI (I mostly use the Explorer-style interface), and I preferred the search UI in Windows 7 to the one in Windows 8. But saying that Windows 8 is a worse OS than such champions as Vista, 98, and ME is quite a stretch.

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    9. Re:Would have gotten a FP except by Intropy · · Score: 3

      Bloatware: software I dislike and wish to deride but for which I am unwilling or unable to give reasons why.

    10. Re:Would have gotten a FP except by pla · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's not what I've heard. I've read that Seven, like Vista, precaches everything into RAM that it believes you will need and makes it full. This of course means if you access something new (or unexpected), it has to first swap out something from RAM to the HDD in order to make room for the new item. Slooooow.

      You say that like a bad thing? Low-end machines today have 8GB. My desktop at work has 32GB. I want Windows to "waste" as much memory in an effort to minimize physical I/O as it possibly can! Needing to go to even the lowest-latency-on-the-market SSDs means potentially "wasting" 250 thousand CPU cycles. An HDD, more like 25 million. And if you actually need to wait for an idle HDD to spin up or a network request... Ouch!

      In any case, keep in mind that flushing the FS cache doesn't mean hitting the pagefile. You may need to actually hit the disk if you then go to access something that got dumped, but you would have needed to anyway if Windows hadn't cached it in the first place.

  2. Great by demonbug · · Score: 4, Funny

    I predict a 33% performance increase going from DDR3 to DDR4 based on my own super-secret analysis of the press release.

  3. Latency? by ruiner13 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What is the expected latency of this new RAM? I've noticed that as the RAM technology has progressed, it has favored pure throughput to latency, but this is not always ideal. Is DDR4 going to help with this, or is this yet another advance that comes at the expense of added lag? Just curious on this. I didn't think RAM bandwidth was a problem, but latency could starve these current ultra-fast processors.

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    1. Re:Latency? by demonbug · · Score: 4, Informative

      13 clock cycles according to the all-knowing Wikipedia, so similar to the latency increas going from DDR2->DDR3; theoretically it will be made up for by increasing clock frequency, I guess, with DDR4 starting at 2133 MT/s (unfortunately I'm not clear on how transfers/s translates to MHz for DDR4 - is it the same two transfers per quad-pumped cycle?).

    2. Re:Latency? by rgbrenner · · Score: 4, Informative

      Latency has significantly decreased, thanks to higher clock frequencies. See the chart on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAS_latency

      But RAM will always be slower than L1 and L2, simply because of the size of the memory.

    3. Re:Latency? by beelsebob · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually, RAM latencies have slightly improved over time, it's just not as fast as transfer rate, so the units (number of missed transfers) make it look like it's getting a lot worse. The main reason that RAM latencies haven't improved much is because they're not that important in the grand scheme of things.

      In reality, it takes around 200 transfers to get from the CPU asking for something to getting it, of that, only about 7-9 are the RAM. An improvement of one transfer, makes that 199 transfers, instead of 200 – yay, we gained 0.5%. Except that in reality, the gain is not 0.5%, because in reality, most of the CPU's requests are in level 1 cache... Make that 0.005%. Except that in reality, the gain is not 0.005%, because in reality, most of the CPU's requests that are not in level 1 cache are in level 2 cache... Make that 0.00005%... You get the idea.

      The real way to sort out the latency issue is via tighter integration of things onto the CPU (hence why we've seen memory controllers move on board, and more levels of faster cache), not in skimming one or two cycles off how quickly the RAM responds.

  4. Re:Isn't it time to drop the "D"? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 3, Informative

    Double the memory bus clock frequency. DDR runs two transfers per clock cycle.

  5. You can all thank me for this by eln · · Score: 5, Funny

    I just bought a new computer with DDR3 in it yesterday.

  6. Re:DrrDrrArr by tlhIngan · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'll be impressed when they finally get around to changing DDR to TDR or QDR.

    QDR's already around. In fact, a popular console already uses it. It's still heavily patented though, so it's not very appealing.

    The Playstation 3 has 256MB of XDR-DRAM by RAMBUS (yes, that RAMBUS). It does QDR - two bits on falling edge, two bits on rising edge (using multi-level signalling).

    It's tricky for memory because the bus speed is high, signalling ovltages low, and motherboard traces bad enough that the eye window is very small, so a lot of (patented) tricks are needed to "open up" the eye and recover the bits from it. Impedance mismatches are a killer (and they happen at connectors especially).

  7. Re:DrrDrrArr by beelsebob · · Score: 4, Informative

    DDR2 effectively *is* QDR –it transfers 4 words per clock cycle... It just doesn't do it in quite the same way that true QDR RAM would. DDR3 effectively is ODR (octa-data-rate) RAM. DDR4 will effectively be HDDR (hexa-deca-data-rate) RAM.

  8. Re:Tell me again how this improves my life... by gman003 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The initial DDR4 models will be only marginal increases over DDR3, true. But remember how the original DDR3 models were only marginally better than DDR2, or even how some initial DDR2 modules were *worse* than DDR?

    DDR3 is hitting a wall, where increasing the frequency any further is causing exponentially higher power usage and heat. I can't find any air-cooled DDR3-1866 or DDR3-2133 - every module I can find is water-cooled, because that's the only way to dissipate the heat. DDR4 begins at DDR4-2133, apparently without even needing a heat sink. And it's expected to scale to double those speeds, over time. And *those* you *can* upgrade - if you buy a DDR4-2133 device now, you can upgrade to DDR4-3200 or DDR4-4266 whenever you wish, if your memory controller supports it.

    DDR4 is also making a rather significant shift in architecture, going from a dual/triple/quad-channel-memory paradigm to a point-to-point system. So better scalability with multiple modules.

    Oh, and one quote cited a 40% decrease in power usage compared to an equivalent DDR3 module. That's hardly "slightly" lower.