Slashdot Mirror
'First Base' In Greek Courts For ISP-Level Blocking
arisvega writes "At a first level (the lowest court level in the Greek judiciary system) an order has been issued (article in Greek, Google translation is fair enough) for a 'plan on behalf of Internet Service Providers regarding he implementation of technological measures to deny access to internet users for webpages through which illegal copies of copyrighted work are being distributed.' The order seems to be general and descriptive, and is a manifestation of the implementation process for an even more general and vague larger-scale EU directive, which is the common source that caused the rulings recently posted on slashdot regarding the UK, the Netherlands and Finland. This appears to be one of the reasons that prompted Anonymous to launch defacing attacks on Greek government websites some three months back."
For a country that is in economic turmoil and instituting extensive austerity measures, would it not make sense for these (presumably expensive) 'less urgent civil-type proceedings' to be dropped from the court system. Sure, the *IAA may be able to make a good case for why these rules (and court cases) are needed, but when you have many people going hungry and people setting themselves on fire on the streets, Greece has to ask itself where its priorities are.
At a first level (the lowest court level in the Greek judiciary system) an order has been issued
At the last level, you have to kill a boss and say "I'll rip your head off and shit down your neck" to win the court case.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
This is the most blatant expression of EU's anti-democratic face.
The Council is just a bunch of bureaucrats, removed from the constituents by two- to three levels of administria, who feel most cozy with all those lobbyists buying laws from them.
ISP Level blocking in China or arab spring countries: BAD BAD BAD
ISP Level blocking in Europe: WE LOVE IT. ++good..
What we see here is the way they are going to censor the Internet for when they go back to the dracma(people is going to loose a lot of money and is not going to be pretty).
"The order seems to be general and descriptive, and is a manifestation of the implementation process for an even more general and vague larger-scale EU directive, which is the common source that caused the rulings recently posted on slashdot regarding the UK, the Netherlands and Finland."
Can anyone point to the larger-scale EU directive referred to in the summary? I've missed the news on any such directive having been passed. To date I was under the impression at EU level, all such directives have been in quite the opposite direction so I'd be intrigued to see where this one came from.
Along with the rest of us. it is pretty obvious that the cartels are gonna take the Internet and turn it into a home shopping network. Of course the politicians will be happy to do this because not only will they get to cash some MAFIAA checks but after the Arab Springs they are naturally afraid that some tea party or occupy style movement might actually get all the screwed over public to demand they do more than bullshit and cash checks.
So what we need here isn't public outcry, we have seen how worthless that is. They will just sit and wait for the public to get tired and then cash the checks and do it anyway so that just doesn't work. What we need is more work on projects like Freenet and Tor so that we can simply bypass the Internet proper, otherwise the net is gonna end up nothing but astroturf and shopping channels.
What is sad to me is that the west is frankly becoming as much of a shitty, controlling, nasty, elite controlled craphole as the old USSR was. Kinda sad that we survived the cold war only to become the thing we were fighting against.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Idiomatic expressions like "First Base" are unfortunate for international readers. Oh, wait, I forgot we don't actually have editors. I'll retract my criticism.
.. this ever gets implemented. Even clear, unambiguous laws passed by Parliament for implementation by government departments take *years* to trickle down to local offices because the Greek system is so inefficient. And then there seems to be no such thing as an "unambiguous" in Greece. Greeks debate and argue everything. They argue vociferously with traffic cops giving tickets for 10 or 20 minutes in a manner that would have you thrown in jail in other Western countries. Greeks are enormously file of file sharing. Many people have enormous collections of pirated mp3s, movies and software.
And Greece has a civil law system in which rulings don't necessarily set precedents in the same manner of common law systems. Will other courts follow this ruling or it will it be ignored? Greek lawyers please inform us.
But I have to wonder what kissing/making out has to do with ISP blocking web site.
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visit randi.org
I see the usual pattern of passing evil laws / precedents when the people are too busy worrying about something else (say, like food and the roof over their heads). As the economic crisis in Greece continue to unfold, expect more unjust but relatively minor (from a purely survival point of view) laws to be passed, simply because the people don't care. It's okay if you take away some of our rights so long as we get food on the dinner table
The last paragraph simply states "similar decisions have been implemented by other member states that protect intellectual rights without restricting user rights "
... any child in primary/high school knows how to get around blocking Facebook and other sites. So effectively the message is
In any event, it is simply an arms war
"Good luck with that"
In fact the funniest part of the whole thing is that it appears that the public with their vote is actually pressuring governments to let them pirate, hence the last bit in that sentence. I wonder how the various RIAA will fight that ? Any wins are very short term.
Don't you guys get the feeling that we are moving backwards.
Instead of embracing new technology we try and kill it.
What really sadens me is that copying is such a fundamendal part of our human existence without it none of us would be able to survive. We cannot even learn language without copying. Now we want to artificialy control it.
Interesting but sad.
Greece is out of the Euro. Whenever so many politicians say, "We would like for Greece to stay in the Euro, but . . . ", they are really just wiggling around the truth a bit. It is similar when they say they all want peace, when the tanks are already rolling.
The whole matter is going to be rather unpleasant for all parties involved. And even for those not involved. The EU taxpayers (especially in France and Germany) will lose billions. The Greeks will need to readjust their wages to be internationally competitive again. In other words, right now they cost way more than they are worth. See "The Economist" for details on this: www.economist.com .
So leaving the Euro, will also mean repudiating international debts to fund the new Drachma. And nationalizing industries, including foreign owned ones. This has all been threaten by Alexis Tsipras, leader of the radical left Syriza party, who will probably end up leading Greece after the elections next month. The Greeks can't bear the austerity measures any more. They want the Euro, but they can't afford the cost of staying in. Unfortunately for the Greeks, they don't realize that things will be worse with the Drachma, because the government will have no money to pay them. Since the foreign banks won't lend them any more money, they will just have to print more, causing inflation, and making the currency worthless on the international market.
So what will they care about claims of piracy? Go ahead and try to collect any money from them. The simply will not be able to pay.
This is all not going to sit well with the rest of the EU. The repudiation of debts will lead to private law suits, and Greece will find itself afoul of EU laws. So a bigger danger, is if they will be able to stay in the EU itself any longer.
So this legal issue is just like "fireflies before the storm," when compared what is to come.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
I think you'll find that only applies to American readers, not international readers. You do understand that "First Base" means nothing to people outside the US?
First base in itself is just confusing, first level would be a better description for this article.
Greece is in the Euro, for good, there is no doubt as far as the leaders of France and Germany are concerned. This is their goal and what they paid for.
The Greek people themselves also want to stay in the Euro.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18115664
Your speculation is far from certain.
greeks are gonna not allow this mark my words and its an attempt to cut off communications when they fake and steal the election and hten no one knows what happened
Okay - I barely ever post... but I saw this and just thought... "Really?" With the current Eurozone crisis, the fact that Greece have practically already defaulted on their debts, and the ever increasing likely hood that they will exit the Euro, is this really something which they should be working on? Personally, I'd just like to see them put a little bit more effort into reclaiming the billions of Euro in taxes owed due to a majority who aren't declaring their income... Just my 2 (euro)cents...
Short term payouts aren't worth long term loss of EVERYTHING.
Unfortunately for the Greeks, they don't realize that things will be worse with the Drachma, because the government will have no money to pay them. Since the foreign banks won't lend them any more money, they will just have to print more, causing inflation, and making the currency worthless on the international market.
Your forgetting something very important, something Tsipras understands better then you do. If Greece as one of the oldest EU members, drops out of the Eurozone, it will push more people to do the same.
Fact is the way the Euro dollar was introduced was flawed from the start, having a pan-European currency and everyone's prices regulated to make them equal, and yet wages were never adjusted, nor was the conversion between the various currencies and the Euro to make things more evenly adjusted.
The Greek drachma was valued at 350 drachmas to the Euro dollar, people kept the same wages based on this conversion, so were their pensions, making Greece the lowest paid country in the Eurozone, and yet, the prices for the basics such as food were standardized under the law, which meant selling food for less then what was regulated was illegal and many got punished for it at the start of the Euro dollar. So a German making a average of 45,000 Euros a year has nearly the same cost of living as the Greek average of 23,000 Euros.
A cup of coffee in Greece before the Euro, was 80 drachmas, with the introduction of the Euro and the regulations to level prices, it became 1 Euro, or 350 drachmas, or 4 times the cost over night, without any kind of government method to allow people to deal with this jump in prices.
Beyond the costs of living jump, one must remember that the Germans and the French stood to profit the most from the loans the smaller governments were taking out. When the Greek PM "started" this entire "problem", it was not to ask for money, but to ask for a lower interest rate. A interest rate that between Eurozone countries was to be prime, and yet at the time the prime was 2%, and German and French government loans and private investment loans undersigned by both of those governments to Greece were at 6%, all he asked for was 4%, not bail out money, not support, just a interest rate that was still above what was the initial Euro agreements for. Only when the PM made the German parliament look like idiots over this did Germany start talking about "bail outs".
Fact is, unlike the then PM, Tsipras knows that he can push the Eurozone and actually get what is best for Greece, they wont allow Greece to drop the Euro dollar and all of this "push Greece out" talk is thin threats, the kind of threats that the former PM bowed down to, and accepted a worse faith then just economic collapse, a faith of being pushed down and kept down by the people who have meddled into Greek political affairs constantly for the last 200 years. If Greece leaves the Euro so will others, so far since before the introduction of the Euro, Greek politicians only cared about lining their pockets, and it is easiest when your a "yes man" to the people willing to give you the money.
Tsipras may be somewhat foolish playing a game of poker, but he isn't the one bluffing at the moment.
...time to vote for the Pirate Party of Greece: http://www.pirateparty.gr/
See "The Economist" for details on this: www.economist.com .
"The Economist" is not exactly a beacon of objectivity. They've been trashing the eurozone any way they can for years.
Unfortunately for the Greeks, they don't realize that things will be worse with the Drachma, because the government will have no money to pay them. Since the foreign banks won't lend them any more money, they will just have to print more, causing inflation, and making the currency worthless on the international market.
You are buying right into goverment & systemic propaganda, 100% of the money in the assistance package go to the banks and for repaying the debt. Salaries and pensions have for years being paid by tax money and other income. All these years the borrowed money was channeled to banks and dubious private investments. The fear of being unable to pay public sector salaries and pesion is fueled by the goverment and the ruling class in order to limit resistance towards the austerity measures.
Given the fundamental financial issues Greece faces, it is amazing they would fall for the red herring offered by RIA and others.
Oh! Are we making facts up now?
Fact is, Greece needs to get its shit together. They are a bunch of tax dodgers and panhandlers.
Fact is, they will need to give up entitlements in order to get their debt under control
Fact is, they are fucked. Their populace will not accept a drop in government services, they also will not fund it.
Fact is, I spent just as much time and backed the above with just as many 'facts' as you did.
agreed.. although, IMHO anybody that's that incredibly dumb so as to OK drive by installers is way too thick to be on /. anyways, It's a giveaway in that first sentence..