'First Base' In Greek Courts For ISP-Level Blocking

arisvega writes "At a first level (the lowest court level in the Greek judiciary system) an order has been issued (article in Greek, Google translation is fair enough) for a 'plan on behalf of Internet Service Providers regarding he implementation of technological measures to deny access to internet users for webpages through which illegal copies of copyrighted work are being distributed.' The order seems to be general and descriptive, and is a manifestation of the implementation process for an even more general and vague larger-scale EU directive, which is the common source that caused the rulings recently posted on slashdot regarding the UK, the Netherlands and Finland. This appears to be one of the reasons that prompted Anonymous to launch defacing attacks on Greek government websites some three months back."

Comments

What happened to austerity measures?

[Anonymous Coward]

For a country that is in economic turmoil and instituting extensive austerity measures, would it not make sense for these (presumably expensive) 'less urgent civil-type proceedings' to be dropped from the court system. Sure, the *IAA may be able to make a good case for why these rules (and court cases) are needed, but when you have many people going hungry and people setting themselves on fire on the streets, Greece has to ask itself where its priorities are.

Re:What happened to austerity measures?

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

That's a bit silly. It's like telling a kid who has terminal cancer he doesn't need to carry on going to school because there's no point. Cancer kids and Greece have a right to fully functional lives.

There is another issue: if people knew **AA shenanigans could be put on hold if their country was in dire straights, that would be reason enough for people to demand that the government bankrupt the country. Just for the joy of sticking it up the **AAs' collective ass, ya know...

Re:What happened to austerity measures?

[buchner.johannes]

The EU works like this: ministers from all countries come together and decide on certain directives -- a description of how the laws of all countries should behave. Then they make a contract on behalf of their country with each other to adjust the laws of their country to adhere to this standard.
The contracts say that you have a certain time for implementation, and whoever doesn't implement the law is being fined (there is a chain of measures, which you can also appeal to).

Since Greece agreed to the contract, they have to implement it.

With the (expensive) data retention directive -- which has been ruled unjustified in some countries already -- countries have a chance to make a good case to the EU for rejecting it. But then the directive has to be overruled and the contracts have to be cancelled in some way -- ideally without anyone losing face.

When the ministers agree a directive would be a good idea to implement, and then when it's time to implement the consensus is that the directive is a bad idea, the blame has to go somewhere. Usually the ministers make themselves small in the country, and everyone blames the EU for imposing bad laws on the innocent countries -- disregarding that the countries agreed to the very same law and made a specific contract with each other.

Re:What happened to austerity measures?

[Anonymous Coward]

I notice something you never mentioned in the process - citizens voting. Presumably this is because the entire process is antidemocratic.

Re:What happened to austerity measures?

[SuricouRaven]

The no-school argument actually makes some sense. If a kid is going to die in a year, school really serves no purpose. Why not make it optional, and at least let him enjoy the time he has left more? It isn't as if he needs to study for a career.

Re:What happened to austerity measures?

[Znork]

If anything, invalidating intellectual property laws is a good way to increase competitiveness, something that Greece needs badly. It's also a very cheap and painless way to go about it.

It's not random chance that economies like China or India that don't cater as much to the monopoly damage of IPR tend to grow much faster. The odd thing is that many supposedly free-market proponents actually seem to believe that implementing what is in effect a significant private taxation system on the economy is somehow going be beneficial.

Re:What happened to austerity measures?

[kdemetter]

Comparing piracy to childhood cancer, that's pretty low.

Be real : Greece doesn't need this now, they first need to get back on their feet.
There is nothing copyright groups can achieve by this : if you don't have enough to buy food, you are not going to buy music/videos just because you can't pirate them.

I suspect a different reason : using the 'piracy' excuse to block websites, it opens the door for blocking any website. For example any website which provides a dissident voice to the government, or is used announce protests/rallies , etc... As the country is in chaos, they will have no problem doing this, and the EU will turn a blind eye on this one, as it suits them well.

Re:What happened to austerity measures?

[gnasher719]

Comparing piracy to childhood cancer, that's pretty low.

He wasn't comparing piracy and childhood cancer. He was comparing the state of the greek economy with childhood cancer. There's a chance of survival, put it is a painful and frightening experience.

Re:What happened to austerity measures?

[Kjella]

Well, first of all your process better describes the EU under the previous Maastricht Treaty than under the current Lisbon Treaty that came into effect in 2009. Now both the European Commission and the European Parliament - which is voted in directly - has to approve of directives. Secondly, there is a problem here with time. For example here in Norway we're required to implement the Data Retention Directive that was passed in the EU in 2006 but we still haven't done it. And no matter how much we vote now for different politicians and new ministers it's impossible for us to get out of this agreement. Our own parliament has been effectively neutered so it can't actually do anything. If the government passes a bad law, we can elect a new government and change the law. If they agree to a bad EU directive, we're fucked.

Platform judiciary system

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

At a first level (the lowest court level in the Greek judiciary system) an order has been issued

At the last level, you have to kill a boss and say "I'll rip your head off and shit down your neck" to win the court case.

Winston, are you listening?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

ISP Level blocking in China or arab spring countries: BAD BAD BAD
ISP Level blocking in Europe: WE LOVE IT. ++good..

Re:EU's anti-democratic face

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

You just noticed? How quaint.

I have news for you: in pretty much every country, politicos and powers-that-be mostly care about (1) lining their pockets and (2) being reelected to carry on lining their pockets for a few more years. Oh and yes, a sizable bunch of them also get off on power and control, and seeing their own faces on TV. At any rate, precious few care about their constituents...

Which directive?

[Xest]

"The order seems to be general and descriptive, and is a manifestation of the implementation process for an even more general and vague larger-scale EU directive, which is the common source that caused the rulings recently posted on slashdot regarding the UK, the Netherlands and Finland."

Can anyone point to the larger-scale EU directive referred to in the summary? I've missed the news on any such directive having been passed. To date I was under the impression at EU level, all such directives have been in quite the opposite direction so I'd be intrigued to see where this one came from.

First Base

[DerCed]

Idiomatic expressions like "First Base" are unfortunate for international readers. Oh, wait, I forgot we don't actually have editors. I'll retract my criticism.

Re:First Base

[Anonymous Coward]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_metaphors_for_sex

First base – mouth-to-mouth kissing, especially open mouth ("French") kissing involving the tongue.

Pass evil laws when the people are down

[Anonymous Coward]

I see the usual pattern of passing evil laws / precedents when the people are too busy worrying about something else (say, like food and the roof over their heads). As the economic crisis in Greece continue to unfold, expect more unjust but relatively minor (from a purely survival point of view) laws to be passed, simply because the people don't care. It's okay if you take away some of our rights so long as we get food on the dinner table

Greece is out of the Euro, maybe the EU is next?

[PolygamousRanchKid]

Greece is out of the Euro. Whenever so many politicians say, "We would like for Greece to stay in the Euro, but . . . ", they are really just wiggling around the truth a bit. It is similar when they say they all want peace, when the tanks are already rolling.

The whole matter is going to be rather unpleasant for all parties involved. And even for those not involved. The EU taxpayers (especially in France and Germany) will lose billions. The Greeks will need to readjust their wages to be internationally competitive again. In other words, right now they cost way more than they are worth. See "The Economist" for details on this: www.economist.com .

So leaving the Euro, will also mean repudiating international debts to fund the new Drachma. And nationalizing industries, including foreign owned ones. This has all been threaten by Alexis Tsipras, leader of the radical left Syriza party, who will probably end up leading Greece after the elections next month. The Greeks can't bear the austerity measures any more. They want the Euro, but they can't afford the cost of staying in. Unfortunately for the Greeks, they don't realize that things will be worse with the Drachma, because the government will have no money to pay them. Since the foreign banks won't lend them any more money, they will just have to print more, causing inflation, and making the currency worthless on the international market.

So what will they care about claims of piracy? Go ahead and try to collect any money from them. The simply will not be able to pay.

This is all not going to sit well with the rest of the EU. The repudiation of debts will lead to private law suits, and Greece will find itself afoul of EU laws. So a bigger danger, is if they will be able to stay in the EU itself any longer.

So this legal issue is just like "fireflies before the storm," when compared what is to come.

Re:Greece Is Not Out Of The Euro

[arisvega]

To leave the Euro they must first leave the EU, as there is no other method for leaving the Euro.

You got yourself confused- I wont even link wikipedia because it is trivial to click a bit, read and see for yourself that the Eurozone, the Euro, and the EU are not connected the way you might think.

E.g. an area may use the Euro without being part of the Eurozone and/or the EU; a country may be part of the EU without being in the Eurozone; a country may have special trading agreements with EU countries without using the Euro OR being in the Eurozone, or without even being a member of EU; and perhaps a few other details that I don't really have the time now to check on your behalf.

A major reason why Greece won't just "leave the EU" is because it is one of the community's oldest members (1981), back from the 'veto days', where EVERY member state had veto powers. Also, "leaving the Euro" is not an option, since if this happens fingers can be pointed saying "see? It didn't work. The Euro didn't work": no technocrats upstrairs want this to happen.