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Free Desktop Software Development Dead In Windows 8

benfrog writes "Microsoft has decided to restrict Visual Studio 11 Express, the free-to-use version of its integrated development environment, to producing only Metro-style applications. Those who would like to produce conventional desktop applications or command line -based applications are stuck with Visual Studio 2010 or buying the full version. Microsoft announced the Visual Studio 11 lineup last week."

7 of 462 comments (clear)

  1. Is Apple really that great role model? by hydrofix · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems like with this move and generally the Metro and Windows 8 walled garden stuff, Microsoft is going more and more "the Apple way". Is it really in their best interest? Is it just me, or hasn't the open-ish (compared to Apple) Intel + Microsoft Windows ecosystem served a desktop market niche that is different from the Apple universe? Does Microsoft have an exit strategy in case they fail in closer competition with Apple at Apple's game?

    1. Re:Is Apple really that great role model? by BenJeremy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It seems like with this move and generally the Metro and Windows 8 walled garden stuff, Microsoft is going more and more "the Apple way". Is it really in their best interest? Is it just me, or hasn't the open-ish (compared to Apple) Intel + Microsoft Windows ecosystem served a desktop market niche that is different from the Apple universe? Does Microsoft have an exit strategy in case they fail in closer competition with Apple at Apple's game?

      I wish I had mod points today....

      This nails the point EXACTLY.

      Microsoft is in such a rush to try and capture their own share of the mobile market and stay relevant, they are dumping 30 years of solid R&D in desktop user interfaces for an unintuitive tablet-centric UI, and in an effort to drive developers into the walled garden, they are now enforcing Metro development with their free tools.

      The short-sighted idiots driving this nonsense at Microsoft are forsaking the desktop world with this move, though. As bad as we thought Vista was, it still sold well enough (tied to new systems) - but the user furor over Windows 8 will make the Vista flap seem like a blip in comparison. It's a wrong-headed approach to try and shove the genie back into the bottle, Microsoft... and worse, trying to do it by creating a hybrid UI that does no specific job particularly well for users of either environment. Compromises that sacrifice millions of dollars of very good research into user interfaces will end up costing you far more in the long run. ....and if consumers will be rebelling against Windows 8, what do you think will happen in the enterprise world? It's just starting to deploy Windows 7 desktops, warily approaching it after the nightmare that was Vista. Windows 8 demands retraining that will cost some organizations MILLIONS to implement. The introduction of Metro will also likely introduce a whole new firestorm of exploits for IT admins to face.

      Congrats, Microsoft, for turning into a dumbass company overnight.

      Do yourselves a big favor, Microsoft.... dump everybody in the company who thought Win8 Metro was a good decision for the desktop. FIRE THEM, and scrap the launch before it's too late. Pretend it never happened and begin working on Win9 with a Start Button and the improvements users WANT (like a new file system, for example, DLNA that works, improved stability and app fault recovery), instead of forcing limitations and touchscreen UIs down their throats.

  2. Re:Wait, what now? by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If Microsoft is so bad then why the hell there isn't better open source versions of these things??

    Because Microsoft controls the APIs and can release new versions of Visual Studio simultaneously with the new releases of Windows? Because anybody who wants to do an open IDE for Windows has to wade through the craptastic Microsoft documentation to be a year behind the curve, right about time for the next set of API changes?

  3. Re:Why Forbes name Ballmer one of the worst CEO? by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not a fan of his personality but since Gates has left: XBox, .Net, Windows server ~3X gain in market share, dido database solutions. Dominant in most large corporations for email as well. They've done some good things, they've done some bad things like all companies. In pure business sense they are doing pretty good: http://ycharts.com/companies/MSFT/earning_yield#series=type:company,id:MSFT,calc:earning_yield&zoom=&startDate=6/30/2002&endDate=5/25/2012&format=real&recessions=false earnings yield went from ~1.75% to ~10% since 2002 (couldn't get a chart out to 2000 when Gates left) while they traded ~flat since the dot com boom. So MS today has the earnings to back up the valuation versus MS of Gates day. They might have boggled the phone, screwed the pouch with Vista etc but they earn money, at least now. Consumer software isn't the only source of revenue.

    I think CEOs that need to be crapped on are the ones that gave them selves bonuses when they were getting government bailouts and losing money. Or the second they got out of government ownership decide to reward themselves with 10's of millions as deferred payment for all those hard years of ~1M/yr salaries.

  4. Re:Why Forbes name Ballmer one of the worst CEO? by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The problem here is the TV problem. Visual Studio 11 is free to use, but not free to produce. You're not the customer, you're the product that Microsoft is buying. And Microsoft wants you to produce metro applications, that drive demand for their new products (and phones/tablets), not drag users back to their previous products that people have already bought.

    It's as simple as that.

    Don't like being used ? Pay for what you need. It'll be a whole other story, even with the very same Microsoft products.

    Btw: as a developer I thought I'd add that Visual Studio is a fast, usable and well-integrated IDE, it's also a very, very industrial one. It is much less elegant than most of the alternatives.

  5. Re:Wait, what now? by causality · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And is there any actual reason for why you would not pay for Visual Studio?

    You know that among modern OSes, Windows is unusual in that it doesn't come with a compiler as a standard feature.

    You don't have any actual point apart from "I don't want to pay for the tools I use to get money".

    If there's one thing Microsoft is smart about, it's that they try to please developers. People developing software that runs on Windows is good for Microsoft. It gives others a reason to want to use Windows. How many people are unable to fully switch to Linux (but would like to) because some software they must use is Windows-only?

    This decision by Microsoft means that, up until now, Microsoft has considered such effects to be valuable enough to justify giving away Visual Studio. Now they are asking for money in addition to this effect. Complaining and trying to convince Microsoft to change their minds is standard haggling.

    Besides which, not everyone who programs on Windows is selling the software they produce. Some of them are developing FOSS. They would naturally be more reluctant to pay than someone who is actually engaged in a commercial use and considers it a cost of doing business.

    What part of this is so absurd to you?

    --
    It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
  6. Re:Wait, what now? by peppepz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People here are "crying" because Microsoft has stopped providing an official way for building native Windows applications without paying money. This is the news. The fact that there might be alternate development environments (which will always lag behind the official ones, even if you pay 1E+9 $ for them) or that you could hack your way into compiling a native application by extracting some compiler binary from some other Microsoft product (legally?) is completely secondary. What we are discussing here is this clear decision from Microsoft, whether you see it as a "fault" or not.