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Dungeons & Dragons Next Playtest Released
New submitter thuf1rhawat writes "For a certain type of geek, nothing is more important than Dungeons & Dragons. In January, Wizards of the Coast announced that the next iteration of the game (referred to as D&D Next) was under development, and now they've released an open playtest. They hope to gather as much player feedback as possible to help refine the new rules."
So, AD&D used to try and simulate real-world conflict as closely as possible, leaving it up to the players to come up with "cool moves", provided their attributes and GM would support it. The modern versions of D&D are more in line with Video Game Design, in that they're trying to mimick a mechanic that is fun to play, balanced, but has nothing to do with realism.
I miss that realistic twist from the old rules, without "feats" or "powers" or other abstract concepts that are more just bootstraps to their specific world. I haven't been a table-top RPGer for 30 years, so I don't know what else is really out there, but I'm curious if there were any other properties that went the opposite direction, instead choosing to refine their rules in favor of keeping them out of the way of the experience of playing the game, and simulating a fantasy space. AD&D lost me completely with their 3.0+ versions because of that. Anything out there today that fits my criteria of interest?
Oh, and what's with D&D Next relative to AD&D? Did Wizards of the Coast just fold everything into a straight "D&D" branding (which makes sense to me)? Or do they still have a separate AD&D line of games?
Are they kidding here? Fourth edition is will turn 4 years old next month, and they're already actively developing the next set?
It takes at least four years just to fully develop a new edition of a major tabletop game, with all the adventures and campaign settings and stuff that come out. And forget how long it takes the publishing to catch up, what about the players? All the rule and supplement books are at least $20; the most basic set of stuff for running a campaign is $70+, and that doesn't include any "toys" like campaign manuals or power-gaming goofy shit like epic-level character rulebooks / setting-based weapons and spell guides, etc. That shit's expensive, and it takes time to get used to.
Releasing a new edition of D&D every five years is just as much a slutty cash grab as releasing a new Call of Duty annually. They're not even letting the new version settle in before they prepare to shove it out the door.
The playtest is pretty limited. Lots of little minor changes. But what I can make out so far:
4th Edition Base - Limited Power System + New simplified math system for positive or negative modifications to circumstance + Vancian Casting (kinda)
If you're expecting a huge shift or one back to 3rd you're better off sticking with Pathfinder at this point.
Not if the servers have anything to do with that.
There is no d3. The lowest die is d4.
d6/2, round up. Turn in your geek card.
Greek? To me it is.
d6/2, round up. Turn in your geek card.
d2. Come on man, if you don't know the damage for blowguns and pixie bites what good are you?
My advice is to try Pathfinder, Castles and Crusades, or Microlite20.
M20 is free. Pathfinder and Castles and Crusades have cheap PDF/eBook alternatives to buying expensive books.
They all seem more intent on maintaining a usable rule set than simply releasing new rule sets every few years in order to convince people to rebuy all their books.
(rattles die....) 20! Veni, Vidi, Vici!
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
There is no d3. The lowest die is d4.
As an ancient D&D player, I must say you are wrong. The Three Sided Die is shaped like a football with three ridges. The football shape keeps it from standing on either end, and you read the top ridge.
You can use: "d6 divided by two, rounding up" in a pinch, but prepare to be pointed and snort-chuckled at.
I spent way too much of my teenage years playing D&D...very enjoyably.
But...
D&D is a crappy game system. Every fifth-level fighter is the same as every other fifth-level fighter. Every ninth-level magic user is the same as every other ninth-level magic user. The only way a character differs from others of the same class and level is in their strength, dexterity, etc., and those are (a) mostly not very important, and (b) generated by rolling dice, which is not very interesting.
Systems like GURPS and Traveller did a much better job of allowing you to create a character with individual skills, strengths, and weaknesses.
Why is anybody still playing D&D instead of something better?
Find free books.
I met my girlfriend through D&D. Lost my virginity through D&D too. Different girls and in a different time.
I said - don't look Ethel!..., but it was too late..., she'd already looked.
Thank you for posting this. I love D & D and nothing beats a free chance to play.
I met my girlfriend through D&D. Lost my virginity through D&D too. Different girls and in a different time.
So Palmela and Her Five Sisters then?
As an ancient D&D player, I must say you are wrong. The Three Sided Die is shaped like a football with three ridges. The football shape keeps it from standing on either end, and you read the top ridge.
The ones I saw were all a football shape where you read the number off the bottom of the roll (similar to how you read a 4-sided die). No ridges or top reading.
They were always pretty rare, though, and don't give you any advantage over the d6. I'd say after the d4/6/8/10/12/20, the only other ones that were somewhat common were the the d30, and the d100, though a couple of my European friends had d34 that are apparently used for some bingo-type game over there.
Aside from those the only other one I've seen that got much traction was essentially an opaque d10 nested inside a transparent d10: another attempt at a d100.
I've seen at least log-shaped d5/d7 and more normal d14, d18, d24, too, but those are all basically novelties.
And then obviously all the dice with other stuff printed on the sides, but that's a whole other conversation.
rage, rage against the dying of the light
So Palmela and Her Five Sisters then?
You do realize you made that post on a Saturday night on a Slashdot story about Dungeons and Dragons, right?
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
My biggest complaint with the fourth edition of D&D is that it has become a miniature game. If I want to play with miniatures I'll pull out Warhammer 40,000. Even the published material really just encouraged people to buy various miniatures to use on the supplied maps. Before the GM became a total ass, half the group I was playing with had not played role playing games and just don't understand what a game is. I tried suggesting other systems and the questions were always how do the maps work, how do the miniatures compare. D&D 4E is not a role playing game and I hope WoTC goes back to a role playing game.
-- Slashdot, making the Left look conservative since 1997.
As an ancient D&D player, I must say you are wrong. The Three Sided Die is shaped like a football with three ridges. The football shape keeps it from standing on either end, and you read the top ridge.
You can use: "d6 divided by two, rounding up" in a pinch, but prepare to be pointed and snort-chuckled at.
No, the d3 is just like a regular d6, except with only a couple of dots filled in. To wit: 1 dot on 1 and 5, 2 dots on 2 and 4, 3 dots on 3 and 6 (in a v shape on the 6). Easier to roll and multipurpose.
So Palmela and Her Five Sisters then?
You do realize you made that post on a Saturday night on a Slashdot story about Dungeons and Dragons, right?
And sometimes I drive through the poorer parts of town. What's your point?
You insist on judging a book by its cover, that's your problem.
In my day we just said "I'm thinking of a number from 1 to 3"
but prepare to be pointed and snort-chuckled at.
Speak for yourself!
We're laughing our asses off that you seem to be serious about wasting money on a special 3-side die.
I have a pair of d3s. They are d6s numbered from 1 to 3 twice. I've seen other d3s that only have 3 sides. They aren't flat, but they work.
http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/08/23
I started in the late 70s, and there were no d100s either, but that didn't stop us.
Wizards of the Coast turned D&D into a different game with the same name. Twice. I dont really care what they do, with "D&D Next." When I want to play D&D I'll use the old 1e AD&D stuff, or even the original rules (the three little books and supplements). THAT is D&D.
That's a funny thing to say given your comment. :)
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
You had one very interesting GM to allow losing your virginity through D&D. Were there multiple dice rolls or just a simple lookup chart?
For the first few levels of Gamer, the game system matters quite a bit. Be it so you can collect 'em, min/max them, abuse them, or complain and contrast them. These levels tend to be an adrenaline filled ride, and quite a rush.
After Gamer level four, you start to get access to the skills which suggest the rules themselves aren't as important as you thought. And maybe you start to doctor up your own set of house rules errata, or start to blend aspects from various systems you like, or just start writing up your own.
Around Gamer level seven, the social and creative aspects of gaming can come into sharper focus. This also tends be around the time of the realization that the raw supplies for gaming aren't just coming from RPG and office supply companies... but rather from life itself. Creative inspiration can suddenly be found almost anywhere, not just from books, movies, and songs, but every cultural medium... every thought or emotion.
By level eleven (or sooner, from certain types of cross-class synergy) you tend to have open access to the skills that let you liberally apply your gaming experience to manipulate many of the rules found in life itself.
And since I'm here, I'd like to give a big shout out to those who gamers who breeched the teen levels. Your secrets remain safe with us.
A steaming cup of soykaf would be real wiz right now.
First Edition all the way - everything else sucks and is nothing more than a money grab.
You can always use chits in a zip lock bag like we used to do before we could afford the dice (small kids, y aknow) - you can have a dAnything.
that they reverted everything back to 3e or even 2e standards, then wrote back in random 4e mechanics in a painfully clunky way.
It's kept the worst of multiple editions (the wizard has 10+ powers while the fighter has none; there's no good way to actually protect the squishy members of the party; there are no good rules for social persuasion/combat; the "short rest" mechanic except even clunkier; and so on), and ditched all the best stuff (4e's streamlined mechanics notation; 3e's late-game design of interesting low-level magic items; etc).
Guess again, Bucky. Link to d3 and other less-common but nevertheless very real dice.
I've got a d2 right here that cost me only a quarter.
Plenty of weapons used by small races (halflings, gnomes, goblins, etc.) inflict d3. Slings, daggers, darts, hand crossbows... a couple of weapons used by medium sized races also inflict d3 (gauntlets, knives (when differentiated from daggers, which inflict d4), unarmed strikes (if you aren't a monk and don't have improved unarmed strike feat), etc.).
3.5 came out nine years ago and I've played less than a decade so I'm not certain... but I would put my money on d3s having been used also in 3.0 (came out in 2000).
Close up of a D3.
The ______ Agenda
I knew it had to be a barrel/prism type dice.
But... the future refused to change.
Which "first edition" are you talking about? The original pamphlets, or the D&D boxed set, or AD&D v1?
And ... Each of these had their own set of 'essential' supplement books, which you were strongly encouraged to buy.
Selling books to the same hardcore players over-and-over-again has been D&D's business model since the beginning. STOP BITCHING ABOUT IT.
You may be interested in OSRIC, which is a free PDF of 1e crunch, with all new fluff for copyright purposes. Basically, OSRIC is to 1e as Pathfinder is to 3e.
Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
Why would the Israeli army be so against D&D? They claim that those who participate in the game, "are detached from reality and susceptible to influence."
If a person admits to playing D&D to the army they are automatically placed in low security clearance and are sent to a psychologist
Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
...you don't know the damage for blowguns and pixie bites...
Word is that the newest version just refers to these as "ouchies" -- "You have received an ouchie, you are now hopping from one foot to another for the next three rounds."
Thought thinks itself.
No. You roll d6, and 1-2 is 1, 3-4 is 2 and 5-6 is 3.
Can I light a sig ?
The Three Sided Die is shaped like a football with three ridges.
No, the d3 is just like a regular d6, except with only a couple of dots filled in.
So are you saying that the football-shaped one doesn't exist, or that it somehow doesn't qualify as a d3, despite being a die with three sides?
...nothing is more important than Mentzer D&D (BECMI/RC) or AD&D. Only the ones who kind-of care buddied up with WotC.
While all the articles on that mention D&D by name, the Army was actually referring to LARPing
"First Edition" almost always refers to the original edition of AD&D - not D&D, which didn't use the term "edition" until 3rd Ed. 4th Ed was the first (and, so far, only) edition to come with an "Essentials" set, but that's an alternative to the core books - not a supplement. "Essentials" is basically the core books structured in the same way as the old D&D box sets.
True dat.
AD&D v1 was The One Ring.
Let me get this straight: money spent on a 3-sided die is a hilarious "waste", but one hundred times that money spent on fantasy role playing instruction books is not?
Are you sure you ever played D&D?
I don't think I ever met a RP gamer in high school who didn't lavish a few bucks (and often more) on dice and/or a dice bag. Special dice were often a point of pride, even if they were irrelevant. I was constantly trying (and failing) to find uses for my d30.
Don't forget the fortitude save against disease.
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=951
I started in 1981 and there was no d3 then.
And you too can own your own d3, as well as d5, d7, d14, d30, d100
http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/games/d031/?srp=12
I was also going to recommend DicePool but they appear out of business now :{
They had the "odd" dice set cheaper, as well as tens of thousands of normal polyhedral sets, and awesome deals on bulk dice (ie dice by the pound)
And rolling a 42 is auto-win, every time for every roll.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Missing from the linked FAQ:
Q: D&D ruleset has already been accused of turning it into a combat-oriented computer game rather than a high strategy game. Isn't this just even more of the same, making it even further PC gamelike?
A: No. Actually, it's moved on and is actually consolelike. Each character gets two powers they can set as "fingers" and two they can set as "thumbs", then when they roll the dice, they say, "Thumb 2!" and whatever it rolls it rolls.
Q: So then...
A: Yep. There are also combo moves, where a tank, er, sorry, figher can say, "thumb 2, thumb 1, finger 1", and it will increase their outcome by 0.02%.
Q: Not by, say, +2?
A: Plus what now?
Q: So at least they have stats like STR and CON and the venerable CHA, right?
A: Pfheh, cha, whaeves. Look, we jumped the shark back when the Cloak of Invisibility stopped being a cloak of invisibility and turned into +3 to hide skill.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Isn't that like a tech company trying to prevent its developers from coding on their day off?
I've got a cheap, simple d3. It's just a d6 marked 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3. (And no, it isn't homemade. Not that there's anything wrong with that. ;)
Our group comprises long term gamers. One guy has been playing since the time of Chainmail, the rest of us since the early 1980s. When D&D 4 came out we decided it was not for us. Hell, it was so bad that we didn't even bother to keep the PDF's of the rules we'd downloaded. Still play 3.5 or Pathfinder, RuneQuest, Traveller, CoC and so on. The difference there is that the current incarnations of the RuneQuest and Traveller rules are an improvement on the old versions.
A d3 was essential for my Pathfinder character, an alcoholic gnome "drunken master" sorcerer; the DM tweaked a mechanic to allow all of my spells to be affected by my alcoholism; 1 was 50% less effective, 2 was normal, 3 was 50% more effective. Made for some tense moments (my fireball spell fizzling) or some utterly awesome moments (my fireball spell shattering the wooden bow of an Orc ship, saving the town and drowning about 50 enemies).
I miss Pathfinder.
hookers and grits.
d2 is a coin, and it's not classified as a "die".
You get laughed at enough just for admitting you play D&D. Anybody who uses, or even admits to owning, a 3 "sided" die would get laughed at by even the lamest of D&D players. d2 isn't a die either, it's a coin.
No, d3 doesn't exist in the realm of D&D. If for some reason you need a 1-3 result, you roll d6 and divide by 2. Oh, and it's save vs poison or DIE, immediately. None of this pansy-assed shit they use now.
Why wouldn't you just use ye old d6 and modulo it down? 4-3 = 1; 5-3=2...
Seems perfectly legit to me, unless there's mystical druid implications I'm not aware of.
So Palmela and Her Five Sisters then?
You do realize you made that post on a Saturday night on a Slashdot story about Dungeons and Dragons, right?
Yep, so he knows what he's talking about through personal experience...
Not real D&D unless I can attack the mighty gazebo.
I started in 1978. The only d3 I saw was made by Dragon Dice around the mid '90s. They were made from semiprecious stones and an average set of full dice was like 25 or 30 dollars.
Not to mention there are plenty of dice that aren't platonic shapes, the die only has to orient on the required number of sides not have only that many.
I have a d1 but it's a bit of a let down - the result is never all that much of a surprise
Obviously they were playing 2e and using "Complete Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge".
Sara
Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
I have a d30 kicking around in my backup dice bag that's a hang over from playing Tales of the Floating Vagabond years ago.
Sara
Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
I used to make a point of buying a new set of dice every con I went to. Each character I play has their own die that are colour coded based on the class.
What. So I'm a little OCD, get over it.
Sara
Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
No fort saves in '81. :)
I have the Coolest Die Ever.
http://birds-are-nice.me/programming/glowydie2.jpg
Configurable for d6, 12, 20 or 100. And looks awesome.
I've only ever played one session of D&D though. Our DM had to leave the country soon after, so we never got to continue.
There is no d3. The lowest die is d4.
Then you don't use cool enough dice.
I know when I go to a Con I tend to stop and buy a Random scoop of dice.
(I keep them in a simple Gallon Sized Zipper.
D&D Next (DDN) has one overall design goal, bring the D&D community back together by making an edition that builds upon the best of all editions and can accommodate the myriad play styles and preferences that are out there. A tall order.
So, how do they get there? WotC's solution is build a rules light core that will support gridless play (which they call theater of the mind) that will provide the foundation for more complex rules and mechanics that can be layered on to add more complexity as desired.
The current public playtest (there were two rounds of private playtests prior) is just a small slice of the core mechanics (think modernized 1e and 2e AD&D updated for the modern game environment). Its going to change in the face of playtest reports. Once the core mechanics are solid work will begin on other layers that will add in gridded, tactical combat, a feat and skill system, alternate magic systems, etc. This will bring the game up to 3e (and Pathfinder) and 4e levels of complexity.
The crucial thing is, if DDN works (not a guarantee) DMs and players should be able to mix and match to play the version of D&D they want to play all under the rubric of a single system.
As I have said, this is the goal. Playtester input will have significant impact upon the end product (I can attest that many things changed after the private playtests). It is my hope that DDN will provide a common basis for folks to play again.
I for one am sick of the edition wars and edition warriors. I play D&D and I want to sit down with my friends and have fun kicking down doors, killing the monsters and taking their treasure, not arguing the merits and flaws of this system or that.
...but you've lost all of your hardcore fans to Pathfinder with 4e, to "roll back" the rules at this point won't help, so you have a lot of work ahead of you. I wish you luck.
Things may have changed recently.
In the late 80's, cadets in an "elite IDF program" (which requires high security clearance) used to openly play (A)D&D in the dorms.
Of course, they were already vetted by psychologists.
I get a lot of mileage out of The Only Sheet, which is only $7CA or $20CA for 1 year worth of updates. The author is VERY responsive to bugs, there is customization available for most items, spells, effects, feats, etc, and it's currently being expanded to contain all of the Pathfinder Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat stuff (D&D 3.5e is already supported).
There is a different package called HeroForge that comes highly recommended, but that's like $20 US for the base "Core Rulebook" module, and then another $10-$20 for each expanded source book's worth of support... but compared to TOS it's a ripoff, IMO. Especially after buying the books already.
http://theonlysheet.com/
Having actually played the test package, I can assure people that this version is closer in spirit to AD&D than any later version. In our group, the second encounter (just six kobolds and a pit trap) would have killed the party without a little DM charity. There doesn't need to be a battle grid. it was very fluid and chaotic, and reminded me a lot of Basic Fantasy (for those who have played it).
I'm not sure it's not too little, too late. After all players could simply play the original for a similar experience. And for 4th edition proponents like me, this version takes most of the good parts of 4e (simple power structure, class and level balance, heroic heroes) and chucks them, which leaves much to be desired. They might as well call it D&D 2.5.
A few cool new concepts have been introduced, but I will stick with 4e until the online compendium is no longer available.