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Milky Way's Black Hole Wasn't Always Such a Wimp

scibri writes "Sagittarius A*, the dormant supermassive black hole that lies at the center of our galaxy, was much more active not that long ago. Astronomers using the Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope have picked up some faint gamma-ray signals that suggest Sagittarius A* was emitting a pair of powerful gamma-ray jets like other galactic black holes as recently as 20,000 years ago (arXiv paper). If our black hole was more active in the past, it could explain why Sagittarius A* seems to be growing about 1,000 times too slowly for it to have reached its current mass of about four million solar masses since the Galaxy formed about 13.2 billion years ago."

26 of 83 comments (clear)

  1. dormant black hole? by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What makes a black hole dormant? Lack of gamma ray jets... ?

    1. Re:dormant black hole? by Tanman · · Score: 2

      I guess the hulk moved on to make movies instead of crushing solar systems . . .

    2. Re:dormant black hole? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      it's only dormant because Chuck Norris told it to relax

    3. Re:dormant black hole? by buchner.johannes · · Score: 4, Informative

      What makes a black hole dormant? Lack of gamma ray jets... ?

      Lack of gas and dust streaming in. The disk + torus the infalling gas produces while accreting produces all the radiation we see from black holes in active galactic nuclei (AGN). Another side effect are the jets that you can see in radio frequencies (although not in all AGN.

      There is actually a gas cloud falling in in these decades, so we might see our black hole light up. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v481/n7379/abs/nature10652.html

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    4. Re:dormant black hole? by cpu6502 · · Score: 2

      I'd like to know where this black hole came from. Was there some random star floating through space, which died, and then it started gobbling up everything? Including our galaxy (which will eventually fall in). Or maybe the superblackhole was a previous galaxy from ~25 billion years ago that fell into itself?

      I'll go ask the Vorlon.
      He's probably old enough to remember.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    5. Re:dormant black hole? by buchner.johannes · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'd like to know where this black hole came from. Was there some random star floating through space, which died, and then it started gobbling up everything? Including our galaxy (which will eventually fall in). Or maybe the superblackhole was a previous galaxy from ~25 billion years ago that fell into itself?

      To my knowledge it is currently unknown how those massive black holes (millions of solar masses) form originally. We know they form very early in the universe (1Gyrs after the big bang, our universe is ~14Gyrs old). Do they come from many stars? Were stars in those early times extremely massive? Is there some way of growing black holes very fast?
      Those are open questions in Astrophysics ... you are welcome to join in :)

      We know that merging galaxies should combine their black holes but also grow them (more gas infall) -- but nobody knows how two black holes merge ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_black_hole#The_final-parsec_problem ).

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
  2. Too Much Space Turkey? by Scarletdown · · Score: 2, Funny

    Just more evidence that eating turkey makes you sleepy. It would appear that our galaxy's super massive black hole ate too much space turkey, and now it is having a nice long nap.

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    This space unintentionally left blank.
    1. Re:Too Much Space Turkey? by Zocalo · · Score: 2

      Maybe it's just contemplating the celstial equivalent of a wafer thin after-dinner mint.

      I'd imagine the after effects might be a little more colourful than with Mr. Creosote though...

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
  3. Re:Weight of a teaspoon amount by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I get the impression that concepts like 'volume' start to get a little tricky once you pass the event horizon...

  4. Re:Weight of a teaspoon amount by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 4, Informative

    The singularity itself? A teaspoon of singularities would have infinite weight. Maybe you mean everything inside the event horizon? In that case calculate the Schwarzschild radius (2Gm/c^2) of 4 million solar masses, then get the density [4 million solar masses /(4/3 pi r^3)] and multiply by the volume of a teaspoon. I think the density of everything inside the event horizon for that big of a black hole is actually pretty low.

    --
    "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
  5. Re:Weight of a teaspoon amount by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Don't know, none of our "teaspoon on a rope" measuring devices have been successfully pulled back out past the event horizon.

    On an unrelated note, we need more interns.

  6. Asterisk by Megane · · Score: 4, Funny

    It wasn't always such a wimp, but then it got caught doing steroids, so it had to have an asterisk after its name.

    --
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  7. I dare you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Oh sure, it's easy to call it a wimp from way out here on the outskirts of the galaxy. But I bet you wouldn't call it a wimp if it were right in your face!

  8. Re:Weight of a teaspoon amount by Thiez · · Score: 2

    > The singularity itself? A teaspoon of singularities would have infinite weight.

    No, it wouldn't. Black holes have a finite weight.

  9. Re:Weight of a teaspoon amount by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    > The singularity itself? A teaspoon of singularities would have infinite weight.

    No, it wouldn't. Black holes have a finite weight.

    Singularities consume no space, so you can fit an infinite number of finite weight singularities in a teaspoon. Hence infinite weight

  10. Re:Weight of a teaspoon amount by FrootLoops · · Score: 3, Informative

    Your mass/volume ratio is way off, though the other three are correct. It should be...

    mass / volume = 1.155 * 10^6 kg/m^3
    1 tsp = 4.929 * 10^-6 m^3
    1 tsp of Sagittarius A* = 5.693 kg

    So, it's pretty heavy, but eg. neutron stars are far, far heavier. This black hole is far denser than the sun, which has about 6.94 g per tsp.

  11. Re:Weight of a teaspoon amount by osu-neko · · Score: 3, Informative

    > The singularity itself? A teaspoon of singularities would have infinite weight.

    No, it wouldn't. Black holes have a finite weight.

    Right, but an infinite number of singularities will fit in a teaspoon (or any volume, for that matter).

    --
    "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
  12. Re:WWKKT? What would Kim K. think? by osu-neko · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is anyone else disturbed that such an incredibly major change happened only 20,000 years ago?

    This could be worse than an ice age.

    No. If, 20,000 years ago, it was much more active, it proves living in a galaxy with an active nucleus is not a problem. What it means is, if it becomes more active again, we don't really have anything to worry about -- we've been living with the "problem" for most of five billion years and gotten along just fine...

    --
    "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
  13. Re:WWKKT? What would Kim K. think? by SJHillman · · Score: 2, Funny

    Al Gore went back in time 20,000 years (and you thought he only invented the Internet) to begin the process of Galactic Cooling so counteract the effects of Global Warming.

  14. Re:Weight of a teaspoon amount by chadenright · · Score: 2

    Wolfram Alpha disagrees with both of you. It gives the result as 1.1 kg.

  15. quieted by mass by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It was explained in my astrophysics class that when a black hole reaches a certain mass that whole stars pass inside the event horizon before being torn up by tidal force. Then the singularity no longer has a big accretion disk and the radiation emitted by infalling matter is trapped within the event horizon. So it goes quiet.

    1. Re:quieted by mass by dotancohen · · Score: 2

      It was explained in my astrophysics class that when a black hole reaches a certain mass that whole stars pass inside the event horizon before being torn up by tidal force.

      Then the singularity no longer has a big accretion disk and the radiation emitted by infalling matter is trapped within the event horizon.

      So it goes quiet.

      Who was your lecturer? Pick a mass, any reasonable mass for a black hole, and calculate it's Schwarzschild radius. Now add the diameter of a star, any star, to that radius and calculate the gravity field at that distance from the center of the black hole. Do you notice the difference? That tidal force will tear any star apart. It will tear iron apart.

      Furthermore, it is very unreasonable to assume that the only object orbiting the black hole is the single ingested star. Most (all?) black holes have large quantities of mass orbiting them in accretion disks, the ingested star will of course disturb matter in the accretion disk. I will leave to your own imagination why the ingested star's influence on the accretion disk will be anything but 'quiet'. As to the assertion that afterwards "the singularity no longer has a big accretion disk" it is likely that the ingested star leaves more of its own material in the accretion disk than that which it drags down with it. Hint for calculating it: stars rotate.

      --
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    2. Re:quieted by mass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Schwarzchild radius is proportional to the mass M. The tidal effect is proportional to the derivative of the gravitational field, which is proportional to M / R^3. Setting R to be the Schwarzchild radius, to measure the tidal effect at this point, we find that it is proportional to 1 / M^2. So the more massive a black hole is, the smaller the tidal effect at its event horizon - and for a sufficient black hole mass, the tidal effect must be insufficient to break up a star.

      Calculating the mass at which this happens is left as an exercise for the reader. ;-)

  16. Re:Incomplete data by TapeCutter · · Score: 3

    We now have evidence that gamma rays influence climate

    Speaking of incomplete data - No, we have evidence that gamma rays leave a vapour trail in a cloud chamber since that's how we detect them in an atom smasher. A few people have taken this fact and speculated that gamma rays affect the climate by seeding clouds, there are even a couple of books about the idea. Only problem is, their speculation does not not fit everyone else's observations. However you will find the 'Iris theory' presented as fact in the opinion pages of the wall street journal. Why? - Because on top of their complete lack of evidence, the people pushing this idea just happen to think it 'proves' Earth's climate is self regulating so we don't have to worry about regulating our emmissions.

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  17. Re:Weight of a teaspoon amount by drerwk · · Score: 2

    http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Schwarzschild+radius+of+4+million+solar+mass+ = 7 million miles
    http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Sagittarius++A*+radius = 13 million miles
    Seems Sag A* radius is based on observed angular size of the radio source.

  18. They Merge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From the view of an outside observer, the larger (greater mass) black hole will appear to draw the smaller one in. In reality, they're drawn to each other, and eventually merge, like two drops of water meeting on a window pane. The singularities become one. Simulations suggest that the merger will radiate massive quantities of energy in the form of gravity waves, a major ringing of the bell.

    The ringing quickly dies down, and the only evidence of the merger being 1) the changed direction of movement relative to other nearby objects and 2) major disruptions of whatever was orbiting the two holes, from stars down to the accreation disc gas.