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Backyard Brains Can Help Satisfy Your Inner Frankenstein (Video)

Did you know that cockroaches have such large nerves in their legs that you can poke into their legs almost at random and hit a nerve with an electrode so you can stimulate that leg with hip-hop music and and watch it move? And that you can easily order the parts to do this at home or at school? You can. And supplies to perform many other neuroscience experiments, too. Amaze your friends! Learn how neurons work! Gross out squeamish people! All that (and more) is what Backyard Brains is about.

36 of 199 comments (clear)

  1. That's not funny by Gothmolly · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sticking an electrode into a creature and have it twitching to music is not funny, it's cruel.

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    1. Re:That's not funny by slimjim8094 · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's what I thought, but they cut off the leg (not do it on the cockroach), use juvenile cockroaches that can grow their legs back, and they anesthetize the roach with icewater first.

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      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    2. Re:That's not funny by lxs · · Score: 2

      I'm OK with the killing. It's the dismembering for fun and profit that doesn't sit well with me.

    3. Re:That's not funny by 1s44c · · Score: 2

      Do you not squash bugs, or use a fly swatter, or use spray to kill wasps/hornets, or use ant traps?

      I draw a distinction between killing and torturing.

    4. Re:That's not funny by codewarren · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If you stuck a venus fly trap for the same purpose, or you stabbed a maple tree for the purpose of making it bleed, is that also cruel? Practically everyone can see that it is cruel to do this to a human, while practically everyone can see it is not cruel to do this to do it to a plant. Somewhere between these, we went from cruel to not cruel. Is there a line, on one side of which is cruel, and on the other is not cruel, or is there a spectrum of cruelty here? And what property of these "creatures" makes it crueler to do so to some, than to others?

    5. Re:That's not funny by satuon · · Score: 2

      Well, a plant doesn't have a nervous system so it can't feel pain. Insects have a nervous system so they probably feel pain, but then, their nervous system is so simple I doubt their pain has any meaning.

    6. Re:That's not funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, it is not that simple, not all members of the animal kingdom have enough neurons to "feel" anything. You would not conceder reflexive movement in someone who has lost most of their brain to indicate real sensation. You need a *lot* more complexity than even complex reflexes to consider anything capable of feeling (and flys have only a little more than a millionth of our complexity). Vertebrates would make a good first start, along with creatures with similar or higher complexity levels to the simple vertebrates, but the actual layout of the brain architecture probably also should be taken into account. Obviously if we actually knew about how to derive this knowledge form brain measurements a lot of ethical questions would be a lot simpler.

    7. Re:That's not funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's actually not true at all. Pain is carried by nociceptors, which are found in higher orders. Insects have not been demonstrated to have nociceptors. They "feel" noxious stimuli. But they don't process noxious stimuli as "pain". They process it as a feeling, and something they want to get away from. But their nervous system doesn't process it as an "unpleasant" stimulus. Just a stimulus that might possibly kill them, so they should flee the stimulus.

    8. Re:That's not funny by million_monkeys · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's a pretty weak defense against a claim of cruelty. A human analogue: Suppose you need a bunch of healthy teeth for an experiment. Find a child and yank out a few teeth - they'll grow new ones eventually. Shoot them up full of Novocaine first and they won't even feel it. I assume no one thinks that's acceptable?

      If you're ok with the process because it's only a cockroach, just admit that. Don't try to use some false justification to convince yourself that you were humane about cutting it's leg off.

    9. Re:That's not funny by seven+of+five · · Score: 3, Funny

      Don't be too surprised if, after you die, there's a roomful of oversized roaches waiting for you with jumper cables and a car battery.

    10. Re:That's not funny by codewarren · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A human analog is irrelevant. Humans are not analogous to cockroaches in this way. Humans feel pain through nociceptors. Cockroaches don't have these.

      Besides that Humans can feel horror and misery that a brain as simple as a cockroaches almost certainly cannot. They do not have higher emotions and higher functions. They don't even have memory. Whatever it is like to be a cockroach, it is almost certainly nothing like what it is like to be a human.

    11. Re:That's not funny by codewarren · · Score: 2

      My point is that more is required to feel pain than "has neurons", or even "has a nervous system". A crucial part of the human experience of pain involves nociceptors which cockroaches do not have, for example. My point from the beginning is that revulsion from perceived cruelty in prodding cockroaches in this way is due to anthropomorphizing cockroaches and not any actual cruelty.

      Based on the modding, here, it looks like actual scientific data still takes a back seat to intuition.

    12. Re:That's not funny by ArsonSmith · · Score: 2

      it's also OK to spray chemicals around to kill off the child infestation of your house too. Or to turn on the kitchen light and jump on the child before it runs under the fridge.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    13. Re:That's not funny by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 4, Funny

      Whatever it is like to be a cockroach, it is almost certainly nothing like what it is like to be a human.

      Excuse me, but a Mr. Franz Kafka says he would like to have a word with you.

    14. Re:That's not funny by Rakishi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Cockroaches are not humans.

      By your argument a neural network running on my computer also feels "pain" and our collective computer systems are the worst set of torturers to have ever existed.

    15. Re:That's not funny by AioKits · · Score: 3, Funny

      So you're okay with torturing something as long as your end goal is to kill it? Because all those things are closer to torture than what they did in this experiment.

      If I find a cockroach in the kitchen I make sure to set up my tiny crucifixion of him in the middle of the kitchen floor. Sure it may be months before he dies, but it serves as a warning to the rest of the bastards in hiding.

      --
      "Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted." -Groucho Marx
    16. Re:That's not funny by codewarren · · Score: 3, Insightful

      By this logic, mowing one's lawn is a virtual holocaust of cruelty.

    17. Re:That's not funny by scubamage · · Score: 2

      They still display nociception (writhing on a pin when stabbed for example), and they have receptors for endogenous opioids. This suggests that they still have some sort of elementary reception of noxious stimuli, and their bodies release chemicals to dull sensations of pain. While no, its most likely not the sensation humans are used to, it is still a negative sensation that should be minimized.

    18. Re:That's not funny by TheLink · · Score: 2

      Besides that Humans can feel horror and misery that a brain as simple as a cockroaches almost certainly cannot.

      What makes you so certain? If you were in a cockroach body you would have limited senses and physical abilities, so even if you feel horror and misery how would you prove it to some human? Cockroaches may not pass IQ tests, but how can you be so sure they don't feel pain, horror and misery? And how much can you learn with a limited cockroach body? They certainly do have memory: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070927132543.htm

      Maybe amoebas too: http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/artsep01/feed.html
      Some amoebas even build elaborate shells:
      http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/artsep01/shelled.html
      Instinct maybe, but what's instinct then? And how sure are you that horror and misery don't come with instinct either? After all pain, horror and misery would be more useful concepts than passing IQ tests to most creatures on this planet and elsewhere even.

      I think we're are still far from understanding thought and consciousness.

      By the way there are single neurons that specialize in going "BINGO!" whenever someone thinks "Halle Berry".
      http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Single-Cell-Recognition-Research-6260.aspx

      Who knows, an individual amoeba might be potentially more intelligent than a single neuron. But there is currently no way for an amoeba to be hooked up to a suitable body to prove otherwise, no super exoskeleton or mecha robot equivalent that it can pilot and be provide supersenses. In contrast, multi-cellular animals allow a bunch of neurons to pilot a body and have their senses extended. But the neurons still have to specialize and cooperate with other neurons to fire the impulses to move limbs, receive impulses etc. A single cell wouldn't be able to do it plus there is no redundancy - if the entire body is controlled by a single cell and that cell dies without a replacement, the body is in trouble.

      --
    19. Re:That's not funny by tom17 · · Score: 2

      I have plenty of experience of 9v batteries on the tongue (one of the most sensitive organs on the body? I dunno). Used to do it for fun as a kid. I like the tingle :)

      I also have plenty of experience of touching 12v batteries when wet. Nada. Maybe I have a higher resistance than you?

      I also have plenty of experience of flashing a battery. Fortunately I do not have a resistance approaching 0 Ohms so it doesn't really have the same effect on my wet hands when I touch the terminals. If you are implying that I should hold onto the spanner while shorting it, sure I could, but I won't because I don't want to get burned as it heats up. Other things that I do not hold onto include 6v soldering irons, 3v hot-wire cutter wire etc.

      Sure, a car battery has a lot of current delivering ability, but with only 12v pushing it, it's not going to get very far on high resistance loads, such as me connected to it with oversized crocodile clips :)

  2. I wonder by Sparticus789 · · Score: 2

    Didn't Dexter get started with stuff like this? In 20 years there will be some kid suing /. because he read this article and turned into a serial killer.

    --
    sudo make me a sandwich
  3. Cockroaches by scubamage · · Score: 5, Informative

    At first the animal lover in me was wondering about the ethics of randomly cutting apart cockroaches without any clear scientific benefit outside of learning (at least dissections tend to teach more than one person - disclaimer, I was on a human subject review board for scientific studies at my college). However it looks like they go out of their way to actually keep everything humane. And, its also important to note that the cockroaches are anesthetized, and their legs do in fact grow back. They get a thumbs up!

    1. Re:Cockroaches by durrr · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm pretty sure that insects are not covered by any animal cruelty laws and regulations, building a cockroach-sized medieval torture chamber is as such entirely legal although perhaps somewhat eccentric.

    2. Re:Cockroaches by StikyPad · · Score: 2

      Since insects don't feel pain, I think the anesthesia is more about the convenience of having the bug hold still while its leg is amputated. And maybe to make people feel better. Judging by your response, It worked.

    3. Re:Cockroaches by StikyPad · · Score: 2

      Sorry, no. The recent discovery of endogenous opioid peptides and their receptor sites in various invertebrates (including insects) may encourage the belief that these animals can experience pain in view of the analgesic role of opioid peptides in mammals. However, the various functions, unrelated to pain experience, which are mediated by opioids in mammals, as well as the known occurrence of two such compounds in a protozoan, suggest that the endogenous opioids of invertebrates may function in regulating physiological or behavioral activities unconnected with pain phenomena. The presence of opioids can therefore not be taken as necessarily indicating a capacity for pain perception in an animal. http://www.ganima.info/docs/pain/65.pdf

      The best indicator is behavior, and insects do not behave differently when injured, aside from any physical limitations the injury may cause. Personally I think it's unethical to cut off insect limbs for entertainment whether or not it causes pain; I just think the "anesthesia" angle is bunk and used in a weak attempt to circumvent any ethical criticism.

  4. Re:Damn! by strength_of_10_men · · Score: 2

    It looks like you can order this stuff and have it shipped to Europe: http://backyardbrains.com/Order.aspx

    It looks like there are plenty of customers from around the world: http://backyardbrains.com/Contact.aspx

  5. Slashvertisement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Did you know that nerds have such large deficiencies in their brains that you can post Slashdot articles almost at random so you can stimulate that advertising revenue with advertisements disguised as badly edited articles and watch them squirm? And that you can easily order the editors to do this at home or at work? You can. And supplies to perform many other psychology experiments, too. Amaze your investors! Learn how marketing works! Alienate your readers! All that (and more) is what Slashvertisement is about.

  6. Re:Damn! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We just don't have the size cockroaches you have. And using cats or dogs is often frowned upon.

  7. Re:Processing Scheme of the Brain Cracked!!!!!! by ByOhTek · · Score: 2

    I know it has yet to be tested, but it works.

    Congradulations, you've won our dictionary definition word of the day!

    --
    Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
  8. Re:oh jesus fucking christ on a pogo stick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    can we repeat this experiment with the leg of a PETA member?

    No, unlike roaches, PETA members lack the functional nervous system required for this to work.

  9. Submission Tip #23: by Saroful · · Score: 2

    Put at least SOME effort into making the submission not appear to be an advertisement (even if it is one).

  10. So, how's monetizing Slashdot working out? by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Shameless articles about torturing animals (even insects are beneath this) and astroturfing posts cheering them on. Wag of the finger, site I used to love...

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    1. Re:So, how's monetizing Slashdot working out? by codewarren · · Score: 2

      The difference between a cockroach nervous system and a human nervous system, especially with regards to pain pathways, is immense. Your intuition is just wrong. Cockroaches can't suffer like humans can because they have no higher order functions. They don't think, they don't remember, they don't have desires, or higher emotions because they lack the circuitry for it.

      It is an insult to human torture victims to compare a cockroach's experience to that of a human's. You've inflicted more torture on this world by forcing us to read your drivel than any human has by poking a disembodied cockroach leg.

  11. Transcript by QuasiSteve · · Score: 2

    Title: Backyard Brains Makes Educational (and Fun) Bioengineering Lab Kits
    Description: Their motto is "Neuroscience for Everyone," and they mean it!

    00:00) TITLE
    A shot of Rob Rozeboom sitting at a small table appears with the SlasdotTV logo bar reading "Slashdot Editor Rob Rozeboom".

    00:00) Rob
    If you're a fan of Frankenstein but have worries about villagers chasing you with pitchforks and torches, the folks at Backyard Brains have science kits for you.

    00:08) TITLE
    The SlashdotTV title sequence appears with the title Backyard Brains and two small photos of electronics mounted to insects.

    00:12) TITLE
    A view of a guy at a group desk with various computer screens and tools appears.

    00:12) Guy
    To all those out there on the interwebs listening to me and thinking "When is this guy gonna show us the inventions already?",

    00:17) TITLE
    The SlashdotTV logo bar fades in and out of view identifying this guy as "Backyard Brains Co-Founder Timothy Marzullo".

    00:17) Timothy
    The reason I can talk fast and hopefully talk about interesting things or boring things is because I have neurons.
    Neurons are electrochemical devices - cells - and it's hard to monitor the chemical secretions - the neurotransmitters - because they happen in very small spaces, you need powerful microscopes and fluorescently tagged molecules, but the electricity that a neuron generates is easy to... well, easier to monitor due to this magical invention which is allowing all the listeners to watch me and it's called the transistor.
    We all know due to the magic of the PN- and NP-junctions and creative uses of capacitors and resistors, we can make amplifiers and even computers.

    00:58) Timothy
    So what we have here are cockroaches and these are [...]

    01:03) TITLE
    The view zooms in on the box of cockroaches

    01:03) Timothy
    [...] muy especial cockroaches
    - viven en el bosque de Sudamerica - they live in the rain forests of South America.
    One of the reasons cockroaches are so fast is they have very large neurons in their legs. [...]

    01:16) TITLE
    The view zooms back out

    01:16) Timothy
    [...] These very large neurons are quite easy to record from.
    Now, we want to treat the cockroaches in a humane fashion, so we need to anesthetize them and so, uhm.. did you bring your halothane with you, in addition to your camera?

    01:31) Rob
    No..

    01:32) Timothy
    The propathol?

    01:33) Rob
    No... I

    01:34) Timothy
    The pentobarbital?

    01:35) Rob
    I might have a fifth of Jack in the car, but..

    01:38) Timothy
    Yeah, yeah.. so we could actually use that for the earthworms, but for the cockroaches we're just gonna use.. this is relatively old technology that probably doesn't excite the people at Slashdot that much, but when water goes below a certain temperature it undergoes a phase change in terms from a liquid to a solid, and so what we have here is ice, in water, and so we're gonna put the cockroaches in the ice water [...]

    02:03) TITLE
    The view zooms in on the cup of ice water

    02:03) Timothy
    [...] and after a minute or two that will chill them out and anesthetize them.

    02:06) Timothy
    I'm actually allergic to cockroaches because I've been working on them for about two years.
    I used to work in a rat lab, then I got allergic to rats, so I moved to cockroaches, now I'm allergic to cockroaches, so I'll have to move to.. maybe jellyfish and sea anemones next.
    It's a constantly.. I'm constantly fighting this battle between creatures.

    02:25) TITLE
    Timothy grabs a cockroach and puts it into the ice water.

    02:25) Timothy
    So these are.. they live in the rotting trees of the Amazonian rain forest, and I'm jut gonna dunk 'm into the ice water.
    And because these are cold-blooded, he can't mod.. regulate his own body core temperature and after a minute or two, he'll slowly.. he'll begin to move slower and slower and then we can do our exp

  12. Re:Processing Scheme of the Brain Cracked!!!!!! by ByOhTek · · Score: 2

    You can't say something works without testing it, you can only guess.

    --
    Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
  13. Absolutely. Humans are superior by INowRegretThesePosts · · Score: 2

    A human analog is irrelevant. Humans are not analogous to cockroaches in this way. Humans feel pain through nociceptors. Cockroaches don't have these.

    Besides that Humans can feel horror and misery that a brain as simple as a cockroaches almost certainly cannot. They do not have higher emotions and higher functions. They don't even have memory. Whatever it is like to be a cockroach, it is almost certainly nothing like what it is like to be a human.

    Thanks for a needed dose of common-sense.

    Crazy, misinformed environment activists (as opposed to reasonable, educated environment engineers) speak as if animal life was just as dignified as human life.
    Newsflash: it isn't. Humans have far greater intelligence, are self-aware, and have free-will. While animals (specially mammals) should not be needlessly mistreated, they aren't to be treated as humans either.

    If an economic project needs to put down an hectare of trees, it should be permitted unless it will harm humanity (through the destruction of environmental resources) or if the economic benefits are very small.