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Is OpenStack the New Linux?

snydeq writes "As the self-proclaimed 'cloud OS for the datacenter,' OpenStack is fast becoming one of the more intriguing movements in open source — complete with lofty ambitions, community in-fighting, and commercial appeal. But questions remain whether this project can reach its potential of becoming the new Linux. 'The allure of OpenStack is clear: Like Linux, OpenStack aims to provide a kernel around which all kinds of software vendors can build businesses. But with OpenStack, we're talking multiple projects to provide agile cloud management of compute, storage, and networking resources across the data center — plus authentication, self-service, resource monitoring, and a slew of other projects. It's hugely ambitious, perhaps the most far-reaching open source project ever, although still at a very early stage. ... Clearly, the sky-high aspirations of OpenStack both fuel its outrageous momentum and incur the risk of overreach and collapse, as it incites all manner of competition. The promise is big, but the success of OpenStack is by no means assured.'"

44 of 185 comments (clear)

  1. Done. by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...projects to provide agile cloud management...

    Whenever I see "blaw...blaw AGILE blaw...blaw", I stop reading.

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    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:Done. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Needed webscale and enterprise value there. Agile alone isn't agile enough.

    2. Re:Done. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Whenever I see a question mark in the headline I stop reading.

    3. Re:Done. by NickFortune · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I got that with "cloud".

      How open can the system be when it runs on someone else's hardware under someone else's control?

      OK, maybe potentially big news for cloud service vendors, but I can't the average Linux hobby coder giving this a lot of time or effort

      --
      Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
    4. Re:Done. by simcop2387 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I always think of Betteridge's Law of Headlines

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_Law_of_Headlines

    5. Re:Done. by gman003 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I dunno...

      We're already hearing about "local clouds" - essentially building a small-scale cloud for your own large company. So, say, Hewlett-Packard could, instead of renting cloud space, could build a small "cloud" just for themselves.

      Once that becomes relatively common, someone will come up with the "personal cloud" - a small home server, that "does" "everything" "the cloud" "does". I actually expect IPv6 may help with this - if you can access "your" cloud from anywhere, what advantage does "the" cloud have?

      And then, once that becomes common for nerds and the tech-savvy wealthy, someone will decide to do it in software instead of a dedicated hardware appliance. I expect they shall call it a "desktop cloud".

      And then the loop begins AGAIN!

    6. Re:Done. by Smauler · · Score: 5, Funny

      I reckon the slashdot editors should just have gone the whole hog, with :

      "2013 : The Year of OpenStack on the Desktop?"

    7. Re:Done. by MrBandersnatch · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I thought the same but have been doing some digging of late. I've only really looked at depth into AWS so far, and yes, it can be as simple as sticking a LAMP stack in the "cloud". BUT if you need to scale that up, there's some rather neat stuff for load balancing and auto-scaling, basically being able to build a service/system that could handle the slashdot effect without needing the long term hardware commitments. And its rather easy to do. Add into it the ability to distribute your content across multiple cache servers to speed up access and you have the ability to put together global infrastructure at a fraction of the cost of a data centre deployment.

      Now as to the long-term costs, I actually view that as much as a matter of good management of that infrastructure - demand not as expected then cut back on resources used or if there's constant demand then reserve (pay up front for) that capacity and cut costs. While it might not be right for every project cloud based services have enough advantages and make sufficient economic sense that it is fool-hardy to ignore them any longer.

    8. Re:Done. by aix+tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So at which number of "servers" does it become a cloud?

      Up until about 2-3 years ago we had about 50 or so "Hardware" servers at our company. Which we replaced one after the other with two bladecenters with 24 blades in total, in two different buildings plus NAS clusters, running everything on virtual machines. Those are advertised by IBM as "IBM BladeCenter for Cloud", so at least THEY think that already is "the cloud".

      I, personally, have come to think that once you run something in a virtual machine, clustered in a way that one hardware box going down has no effect of your "Application" running it is basically "The Cloud". Of course that has been around for decades "The Cloud" is only a new marketing speak that has come up.

    9. Re:Done. by ducomputergeek · · Score: 2

      At first I tried calling 'cloud computing' time-share 2.0. The name never caught on with the younger developers, but got some laughs from the guys who were a bit older than I am, and a raised eye-brow or two. (I'm in my mid 30's, but my parents worked around the computers in the glory days of room sized main frames).

      Cloud computing can be useful. We're using a CDN to serve up the relatively static HTML/JS/CSS client and "cloud computing" for the web services layer to handle traffic spikes. On major event days (say when we're doing 4 - 5 events on a day) is when it gets hammered. It would cost quite a bit for dedicated equipment and expertise to handle those types of loads only to sit idle 95% of the time. Now the database cluster is all dedicated hardware which we've spent some money on. I've been involved in a couple horrible project that attempted to scale databases on "cloud computing" before things were frankly ready. I think enough hiccups are understood now that we'll likely explore it later this year.

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    10. Re:Done. by icebraining · · Score: 2

      I prefer the Freedom Box.

    11. Re:Done. by radish · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think "Cloud" is less about physical architecture and more about feature set. When I think "Cloud" I think dynamic, quickly reconfigurable, essentially "limitless". Where I work we're moving away from a traditional model where applications are installed on their own dedicated servers with dedicated DB and FS storage to a Cloud model where VMs can be dynamically allocated in seconds, cloned from images and ready to roll. Storage is via EC2 style no-sql object storage and doesn't need to be pre-provisioned. For a small shop this probably doesn't sound very exciting but when you're in an environment with tens of thousands of machines and are used to multi-week wait times for approval, purchasing and install of new hardware it's a pretty big shift.

      So it's not the redundancy, or even use of VMs that's interesting, it's the pooling of resources - having compute & storage be essentially utilities you can take as little or as much of as you need. Places like Google have been doing this for a long time, but it's only recently becoming mainstream in other orgs.

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    12. Re:Done. by GPLHost-Thomas · · Score: 2

      Well, that's the whole point of it. Previously, we had stuff like AWS, where you had nothing but an API to play with, and everything else was closed source. Now, we do have Openstack, and you aren't forced to run your stuff on someone's else hardware. Moreover, if you still don't want to use a public cloud, but don't want to be locked-in, you will be free to move from one provider to another, and it's going to be easy to do so, because everyone will be using the same cloud core. So yes, it's very open, and it's hugely important that it is. This is why Debian, Citrix and the Openstack project made a common press release after Openstack reached Debian in a usable form, and after I finished polishing Xen Cloud Platform in Debian as well (both will be in Debian Wheezy).

      Also, I dislike the fact that others are painting Openstack as a rackspace only product. Reality: it's not. Read the "AUTHORS" file of the project, and you'll see that it's simply not the case. Read who's got the most commits, and it's not the case again. Last, read how Openstack has open governance, and you'll realize it once more.

  2. yup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I've HURD this before.

    1. Re:yup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Somehow I just GNU there would be a smarmy AC cracking puns.

  3. Meta-engineering by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As a general rule, the only way to build something large and complex that works is to grow it from something small and simple that works.

    1. Re:Meta-engineering by morcego · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As a general rule, the only way to build something large and complex that works is to grow it from something small and simple that works.

      As a general rule, something simple that works will grow into something large and complex that doesn't work, and no one can figure why.

      --
      morcego
  4. Wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    OpenStack is a Linux distribution organized for deploying a compute cloud. Linux is the new Linux?

    1. Re:Wait, what? by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In other words "We have a new distro, how can we get some free advertising..."

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:Wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      OpenStack is a Linux distribution organized for deploying a compute cloud. Linux is the new Linux?

      No it's not. It's a virtualization management platform with appropriate interfaces for clients that you can deploy on pretty much any Linux server.

    3. Re:Wait, what? by MattW · · Score: 5, Informative

      OpenStack isn't a distro. It's a collection of utilities for virtualizing and managing compute and storage resources to build clouds. Putting Apache, PHP, and MySQL onto a linux box doesn't make the LAMP stack "Linux" any more than putting OpenStack services (Nova, swift, etc) onto a Linux distro makes OpenStack Linux.

    4. Re:Wait, what? by sp1n · · Score: 3, Informative

      OpenStack is a virtualization and object storage infrastructure and management system. It is not an operating system or a Linux distribution. It's an application. Rackspace is a major sponsor of the project, and eats their own dog food. Nova is the VM side, and supports (to varying degrees) pretty much every hypervisor. Swift is the object store that Rackspace Cloud Files is based on.

      This should not be compared to kernels, Linux or anything of the sort. "...a major threat to VMware, Citrix and Parallels datacenter management products" would be a lot better.

    5. Re:Wait, what? by GPLHost-Thomas · · Score: 2

      It's not a distribution, it's just that stupid marketing people call it "operating system for the cloud", which adds lots of confusion. They do that also because "Open Stack" can be shortened into OS (which is same as operating system). But in fact, Openstack isn't an operating system, nor a distribution, it's just a bunch of Python scripts which are, by the way, pretty hard to ship into decent packages (I can tell because I'm partly working, as a Debian Developer, on the Debian packaging myself). Compared to XCP, it's really messy, and you don't have a single upstream contact.

      By the way, the original team behind Openstack was coming from the Ubuntu world, so Openstack is a way more focused on Ubuntu than anything else. Even though that starts to become less truth since we're working on having Essex in Debian, all the unstable development is made in Ubuntu, and unit tests with jenkins there runs on that as well.

    6. Re:Wait, what? by GPLHost-Thomas · · Score: 2

      Rackspace is a major sponsor of the project, and eats their own dog food.

      That's only right for Swift, not for Nova. Rackspace has yet to do the switch, because they don't have good enough guys to do the packaging on Debian stable, which is their target. I believe that by this time, they must have more or less stopped the effort, and will be waiting Wheezy (just a guess here based on previous packages I saw).

      Nova is the VM side, and supports (to varying degrees) pretty much every hypervisor.

      That's "pretty much" what they want to let you believe. The reality is harsher than this. For real, Nova supports KVM and XCP (Xen Cloud Platform). The later pushed me to work with Citrix to have it in Debian (it's available in SID/testing right now). If one tells you that you can run Xen with libvirt, reply to him that nobody does this, and that the support must be broken, and anyway, there's so little documentation about it. As for LXC, well, the container itself is broken (eg: you can escape from the chroot), so nobody is fool enough to put that in production for serious use. Then there's UML and QEMU, but I don't think I have to even explain why nobody would want to run that as an hypervisor.

      Then, as not supported, there is: VMWare, Hyper-V, Virtualbox (some got removed recently because its driver was crap and didn't support enough feature to make it useful). Alltogether, that's not "pretty much every hypervisor" in my book...

      This should not be compared to kernels, Linux or anything of the sort. "...a major threat to VMware, Citrix and Parallels datacenter management products" would be a lot better.

      I fully agree with that! But not the Citrix part. Citrix is an active contributor, and one of the reasons why they built a packaged version of XCP is because it made sense when playing with Openstack.

  5. Noise without content by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It sounds very exciting until you look at the code. Then you realise that the quality in the project is entirely in the marketing, and there's nothing of worth code-wise at all.

  6. More clound BS? Not again. by gweihir · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And something that does everything, no less. In general, this means it does nothing well. Big egos are just the hallmark of failure. Lets see whether anybody even remembers this in 20 years. Personally, I doubt it.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:More clound BS? Not again. by metrometro · · Score: 4, Funny

      Big egos are just the hallmark of failure.

      -- Sent from my iPhone

      FTFY

  7. what problem does OpenStack address? by hxnwix · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is there some deficiency in Linux and the various BSDs that OpenStack is intended to remedy?

    1. Re:what problem does OpenStack address? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Is there some deficiency in Linux and the various BSDs that OpenStack is intended to remedy?

      Yes: Not enough free advertising on Slashdot.

    2. Re:what problem does OpenStack address? by MindStalker · · Score: 4, Informative

      Its not intended to be a replacement for an OS. If you read the article its basic a set of software to allow you to roll you own cloud solution. Basically Amazon EC2 in a box. You'd still need to install OSs on the virtual machines.
      No no its no the new Linux, the Title is misleading.

    3. Re:what problem does OpenStack address? by Vairon · · Score: 2

      OpenStack runs on Linux.

    4. Re:what problem does OpenStack address? by Instine · · Score: 2

      Yes.

      Though I think AppScale is the way forward. I've looked at this who scaleable PaaS, node image thing for a while now, and here's where I'm at: What these things should do is what AppScale is doing. Offering a homogeneous node that has the potential to fulfill any or all rolls of a horizontally scalable webservice stack. Like a stem cell. It affords you encapsulation to the server level. Usually a virtual server. This is harder than it sounds, and more important than you may think.

      That is, its servers become instances of a class of node, if you like. This is very important regarding scalability, as it reduces devops complexity massively. You have no config nightmare. No special cases, no spread of hostname and ip configs throughout your spring, ruby, grails, maven, ivy, .... You have one yaml file that contains a list of server IPs. And if you want, specifies roles for each (datastore, app server, etc...). Maybe not even that.

      When you deploy new code it spread over all nodes. No config needed. When you want another node, no config needed. It's beautiful. Yes you could build something this horizontally scalable yourself with the tools the have, but its a LOT of work, and generally, people get it wrong. It becomes messy, with many configs, and poor scaling factors. Projects like this encapsulate the job of doing this assembling scalable technologies and auto configuring then. They are very valuable to those who need them (building things like large multi-tenanted SaaS solutions). Because the headache of rolling your own or coping without is quite a problem.

      --
      Because you can - or because you should?
  8. Surprisingly hyped platform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There must have been a lot of development going on in the OpenStack camp during the past year. Last time I checked many features that were already available in other open source cloud platform products were work-in-progress and setting up and configuring a functional private cloud was cumbersome at best. I wonder how they have managed to gain such publicity and backing over more mature competitors.

  9. Do you mind if I grab your wallet? by mccrew · · Score: 3, Funny

    Just testing out that question in the title thing... :)

    --
    Hey, Windows users, there is no such thing as "forward" slash, there is only slash and backslash.
  10. OpenStack is the new Linux by aglider · · Score: 2

    Just like Linux has been the new DOS.
    No way to compare pears and beans.

    --
    Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
    1. Re:OpenStack is the new Linux by aglider · · Score: 2

      ... and, most important thing, OpenStack is NEITHER an operating system, NOR a kernel.
      And Linux has not been the new television!

      --
      Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
  11. Re:wait a sec... it's a linux distro with some pyt by Vairon · · Score: 2

    I don't believe it's a Linux distribution because it's intended to be installed on Fedora, RHEL, Debian, Ubuntu, etc.

    http://wiki.openstack.org/InstallInstructions/Nova

  12. No by Pf0tzenpfritz · · Score: 5, Funny

    As a "cloud OS for the datacenter" Open Stack clearly has to iconoclast on empowering croud-sorced segregation-effects within the namespace of its initial synergies. Anything else would be a paradigm shift.

    --
    Oh, the beautiful gloss of greality!
  13. Re:Oh please. by MattW · · Score: 3, Informative

    There's a term used called "cloudwashing" that covers inappropriate use of the term cloud, but cloud technology is real and every company in tech is pouring money into this transition.

    Anyone who has worked in IT in large enterprise has seen the benefits of virtualization in action; there's an enormous amount of capex and opex savings, and VMware basically dominates the market. There's a reason 99%+ of the Fortune 500 have an ELA with them.

    The same principles behind that revolution are now reaching into the public space, and looking to blend the private IT compute farms with public cloud resources as well; plus more apps being deployed as SaaS, and more apps being developed on PaaS stacks; all the technology of big data (eg, Mongo), messaging (eg RabbitMQ), and so on just form a virtuous circle with this trend. Apps become more able to run in generic clouds without requiring very specific hardware control, and thus IaaS clouds become more attractive.

    If you're in system, network, storage, or security administration, or IT of any sort, and you're not learning about this, you're basically a COBOL programmer waiting to be put out to farm.

  14. Re:Oh please. by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There's a term used called "cloudwashing" that covers inappropriate use of the term cloud, but cloud technology is real and every company in tech is pouring money into this transition.

    Anyone who has worked in IT in large enterprise has seen the benefits of virtualization in action; there's an enormous amount of capex and opex savings, and VMware basically dominates the market. There's a reason 99%+ of the Fortune 500 have an ELA with them.

    The same principles behind that revolution are now reaching into the public space, and looking to blend the private IT compute farms with public cloud resources as well; plus more apps being deployed as SaaS, and more apps being developed on PaaS stacks; all the technology of big data (eg, Mongo), messaging (eg RabbitMQ), and so on just form a virtuous circle with this trend. Apps become more able to run in generic clouds without requiring very specific hardware control, and thus IaaS clouds become more attractive.

    If you're in system, network, storage, or security administration, or IT of any sort, and you're not learning about this, you're basically a COBOL programmer waiting to be put out to farm.

    Funny, we just hired two COBOL programmers at $80K each to maintain some legacy mainframe systems. When cloud technology can permit hard core data entry, say for insurance records or the like, then I'll worry. But until then, throughput is more important than an app being able to run from wherever in the cloud. Besides, in my line of business. We don't run apps. We run programs that process millions of secure transactions. We have data entry clerks that key documents and data that can't be captured electronically.

    You would probably say that we have our own private cloud. I would say that we have our own methods to allow secure access to our internal systems. By the way, I would predict that there will be COBOL programmers still programming even after cloud computing has been replaced with the next marketing hyped phrase.

  15. Which is why... by tlambert · · Score: 2

    As a general rule, the only way to build something large and complex that works is to grow it from something small and simple that works.

    Which is why the Saturn V booster used in the Apollo 11 mission to the moon was built out of Legos.

    -- Terry

  16. Re:Oh please. by MattW · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Funny, we just hired two COBOL programmers at $80K each to maintain some legacy mainframe systems.

    This reminds me of a guy I knew in ~1994, who was griping that all his experience was in COBOL, and after getting laid off from making $75k/year, he couldn't find another job. At the time, I was in college, and so I wasn't really familiar with the idea of keeping your skills updated...

    When cloud technology can permit hard core data entry, say for insurance records or the like, then I'll worry. But until then, throughput is more important than an app being able to run from wherever in the cloud. Besides, in my line of business. We don't run apps. We run programs that process millions of secure transactions. We have data entry clerks that key documents and data that can't be captured electronically.

    You would probably say that we have our own private cloud. I would say that we have our own methods to allow secure access to our internal systems. By the way, I would predict that there will be COBOL programmers still programming even after cloud computing has been replaced with the next marketing hyped phrase.

    So I don't know that I would recommend cloud for you; there are reasons to use it, and reasons not to use it. As the technology and ops experience matures, it will be easier to adopt - basically like any tech. But for almost everyone, there are real benefits. Both capex and opex; and some people are using cloud in a way that their capex savings is ~0 (or negative) but their opex savings is huge. (See: Netflix running their entire infrastructure with 3 admins) Program ~= App. I file my expenses through an Oracle app, that runs in a cloud, that automatically fetches corporate card transactions from Visa, and lets me roll them into an expense report.

    I'm one of the authors of Securing the Virtual Environment, and my co-author is a QSA, and one of the points of writing the book was to talk about the fact that cloud *can* be secure and can be compliant. (Although in the case of a public cloud, obviously compliance requires underlying compliance by your provider, as well as your own processes) Of course, there are a bunch of risks, too - but there are, for example, cloud services that have passed HIPAA and FISMA audits.

    In short, cloud is more than just a buzzword; it's an evolution in the technology that powers IT. I'd say it's more evolution than revolution, but it is more than a buzzword.

  17. "the New Linux" is an analogy (you literal dorks) by mounthood · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "the New Linux" is an analogy (you literal dorks). From the FAQ http://openstack.org/projects/openstack-faq/

    What does it mean for the cloud ecosystem?

    This is not yet code that comes with certification from operating system or hardware vendors. Instead it's aimed at providers, institutions, and enterprises with highly technical operations teams that have the capabilities and needs to turn physical hardware into large-scale cloud deployments.

    Still, wide adoption of an open-source, open-standards cloud should be huge for everyone. It means customers won't have to fear lock-in and technology companies can participate in a growing market that spans cloud providers.

    A great analogy comes from the early days of the Internet: the transition away from fractured, proprietary flavors of UNIX toward open-source Linux. An open cloud stands to provide the same benefits for large-scale cloud computing that the Linux standard provided inside the server.

    --
    tomorrow who's gonna fuss
  18. It was a reaction to incrementalism by tlambert · · Score: 2

    I strongly disagree that it's a general rule.

    I find that a lot of people I would not ordinarily view as idiots have this absurd idea ingrained in their psyche that it's possible to incrementally get from thing ABC to thing XYZ. Mostly I have to believe that these people have never had to reverse engineer anything.

    One of the places this happens most often is in Open Source software, where people have drank the Eric Raymond kool aid about "The Cathedral and the Bazaar". Sometimes you need to build a cathedral, and there's simply no way to get there from a mud hut. I think SourceForge "declarative projects", where people believe that by simply declaring an Open Source project, they will get droves of willing bodies to implement it from scratch. This is the big lie that was Mozilla for a long time, until they finally had working code for people to tinker with, and even then, they attracted tinkers. It shows: they ended up with a bricolage.

    Another example is the idea that you can get from a system with a small set of capabilities to a system with a large set of capabilities without sitting down, mapping out the problem space, and then designing a framework in which it's actually possible to represent the entirety of that space. This misconception is often perpetrated in things like Portage, which is a glorified package management system which is frequently pressed into service as a build system, a task to which it is demonstrably unsuited.

    I'm generally annoyed when anyone portrays something that was revolutionary at its time as part of a natural evolutionary progression on a straight line route from point A to point B, and that it as somehow "obvious" that this revolutionary idea was the next step in the progression. 20/20 hindsight (or Monday morning quarterbacking, if you prefer) aside, it does a great disservice to the revolutionaries who came up with the idea/application at a time when no one else was doing anything similar.

    -- Terry