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Linux For Navy Drone Ground Stations

garymortimer writes "Raytheon will help the U.S. Navy transition to using Linux software at ground control stations for unmanned air vehicles, the Defense Department announced Wednesday. The company's intelligence and information systems unit won a $27,883,883 contract to implement the tactical control system software, used for directing vertical take-off UAVs."

16 of 78 comments (clear)

  1. Re:What if? by AlphaWolf_HK · · Score: 5, Informative

    IIRC the GPL only stipulates that you provide the source code to whoever you give the binaries to. If they don't release it to the public, then they don't have to release the source to the public either.

    --
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  2. Re:What if? by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 3, Informative

    While granting that TFA is almost completely detail-free, it does say the $27,883,883 is for "tactical control system software", which would be a proprietary app running on Linux. So no, don't hold your breath to see it being GPL'ed.

  3. Re:What if? by siddesu · · Score: 2

    Well, we can always hope that some Chinese hacker will prove to be a kind soul and release them for everyone's benefit.

  4. Re:What if? by cheater512 · · Score: 5, Informative

    As AlphaWolf pointed out, that clause only has to do with distribution.

    Additionally, just because they make software that runs on Linux, doesn't make everything fall under the GPL.
    If they modify the Linux kernel or similar parts of Linux then yes the modifications fall under the GPL but they are probably using off the shelf Linux and putting their own apps over the top.

  5. Linux makes money by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are people who don't understand that with GNU/Linux you can make good money. Not with selling an operating system (although that works fine for Microsoft, Red Hat etc) but with the systems you can build on top of the whole GNU/Linux infrastructure. This allows a lot of other companies to make money, not just the operating system vendors. The Linux kernel and GNU components may be free, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a whole lot of financial value in it.

    1. Re:Linux makes money by paugq · · Score: 5, Informative

      I know already three countries in three continents which have moved their Navy's (bespoke) SCADA and ship and control systems from Windows to Linux. A fourth country is already in the planning stage. How do I know? Because I ported the software, created a custom Linux distro, etc. Years of work.

      Fun fact: at the beginning we charged a premium for the Linux version. Customer's answer? We want Linux. Windows was deprecated 3 years ago for this software due to no demand. But it's also understandable: I can tell you at least three countries which had to put their frigates and submarines in "manual sailing mode" due to Windows viruses (!!!). Not to speak of many countries not trusting the US more-than-influence on Microsoft, and also some features which were simply impossible to support on Windows due to Windows limitations.

    2. Re:Linux makes money by paugq · · Score: 2

      If you were implementing a Solaris based solution or something custom based on a real-time OS I could understand wanting to use a UNIX based system.

      I was talking about supervision (SCADA) and control, not about weapons. Combat systems run on real-time operating systems such as VxWorks or QNX.

      Re Solaris: there are several major reasons this kind of customers do not trust Windows:
      1. Developed by a US company (Windows: check, Solaris: check)
      2. Source code not available (Windows: check, Solaris: check)
      3. Support on old/new hardware in the future (Windows: check, Solaris: check)
      4. Common viruses (Windows: check)

      A customer which does not trust Windows for reasons 1-3 will usually not trust Solaris either.

  6. Whats with the 883 (repeated) by maroberts · · Score: 2

    Is this some kind of mystic number in contract value?

    --

    Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
    Karma: Chameleon

    1. Re:Whats with the 883 (repeated) by chromas · · Score: 2

      It was a nice round number until they converted from metric dollars.

  7. Re:What if? by quarkscat · · Score: 2

    Well, we can always hope that some Chinese hacker will prove to be a kind soul and release them for everyone's benefit.

    Exactly so.
    Just because Raytheon is likely using an off-the-shelf Linux release as the platform for their Ground Control Software, that doesn't specify which shelf it came off of. IIRC, 'Red Dragon' is the vetted official People's Republic of China release of Linux.
    That makes the jobs of the repo (re-possession) men contracted to the PRC to help settle the USA's massive sovereign & trade debts that much easier. (And don't think That Isn't Coming. If so, you're in denial.)

    OTOH, I am familiar with another Defense Contractor's Ground Control Software of 10 years ago, and they were using a heavily customized version of Linux for a portion of their project (Java coding & Oracle Back-end). That didn't make their Ground Control Software any safer -- exactly the opposite considering how both the kernel & core system software have been repeatedly patched by the open source community. (Contractor-wise, can anyone say "Job Security"?)

    Considering the nature of the UAVs they will be controlling, perhaps the better choice for that OS would be OpenBSD, widely advertised as only having had "2 remote holes since forever". Of course, that would represent a new challenge with a big "pay-off" for hackers everywhere.

  8. Re:What if? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That's interesting, because there's a JSF debacle over not including the source code with the British jets. Maybe it's common to supply binaries and not source when equipping allies. It's unlikely, but it'll be amusing if an ally sues over the GPL at some point to get the source for some kit.

  9. Re:What if? by Verunks · · Score: 2

    does that mean they need to provide the source code after distributing the bombs with the uav?

  10. Re:What if? by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Funny

    All you have to do to comply with the license is include a copy of the source code with each device. If you put it on a TF card and attach that to the explosive, no problem :)

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  11. Re:What if? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Been that way for the F-16 for decades. IIRC, when the Japanese wanted to develop the F-16 into their F-2, source code for the flight control computers was a huge sticking point.

  12. Re:What if? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Its worth noting, US legal precedence says the government is except from copyright for matters national defense. Whle they do make an effort to comply, the fact is, if they decide they are exempt, they'll simply do whatever they want. Code licenses such as the GPL are very likely ignored daily in the US by the US government.

  13. Stallman is against that and so is the OSS people by decora · · Score: 2

    the typical F/OSS line is that they practice 'non discrimination' in what 'field of endeavor' their licenses cover.

    you can see it in the official open source defintitions, its one of their top rules.

    the reality is that GPL and F/OSS software have always been closely linked to the high levels of the military industrial complex. the biggest funders of linux are big corporations with huge defense contracts. universities in the CS field are all closely linked to the military. For @#$ sake, Internet used to be DARPAnet - essentially it was a military program.

    now there have been -some- licenses out there that discriminate against certain 'fields of endeavor', but they are very few and far between.