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Patent Troll Sues Google, AOL Over Search 'Snippets' and Ad Serving Tech

First time accepted submitter WindyWonka writes "Google and AOL were sued for patent infringement Thursday, accused of violating two former British Telecom patents via Google's search 'snippets' and by Google AdSense and Advertising.com ad serving technology. Incredibly, the lawsuit by apparent patent troll Suffolk Technologies asserts that every Google search result 'snippet' display violates one patent, and that another really broad server patent is violated every time Google and AOL serve up ads."

33 of 83 comments (clear)

  1. Funding? by andydread · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Who is behind the funding of this Patent Troll?

    1. Re:Funding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Consumers. Thanks to politicians. Thanks to patent lawyers.

    2. Re:Funding? by stevew · · Score: 4, Informative

      I looked at the Server patent - it essentially patents download files via the web. It is bogus beyond all recognition! It was filed in 2000 - I would imagine that gopher, or some of the other earlier web technologies take care this patent nicely, i.e.. prior art exist in spades.

      --
      Have you compiled your kernel today??
    3. Re:Funding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      This appears to be British Telecom - aka BT, the main telecoms provider in the UK. They are a huge organisation that got broken up into smaller separate business units for wholesale, business, retail (internet phone) and network maintenance. They have a large 2000-3000 person R&D (at least there used to be lots of R&D there are few years back, but I'm not so sure now) center at Adastral Park in the county of *Suffolk* (just south of Cambridge/Cambridgeshire in the East of England). I assume either BT has setup Suffolk Technologies, or someone close to them has bought the patents to pursue. If it is BT then it will be a well-funded operation.

      I think the broad server patent is rubbish. But, the snippet patent IMHO is a legitimate patent.

    4. Re:Funding? by Sepodati · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, the snippets patent actually does look legit. I doubt that Google's process exactly replicates all of their claims, though, even though the end result looks the same. Without knowing Google's algorithm, I guess ST has to assume Google may be using the same process or figure their lawyers can make a case regardless of reality.

    5. Re:Funding? by Trepidity · · Score: 2

      I'm reading through the snippet patent's claims, and while it's not as broad as the server patent, it doesn't seem like an invention to me either. It's automatic summarization plus some ranking/distribution statistics. Automatic summarization is a really old research field, dating back to the early days of information theory. Why is applying it here novel and non-obvious to someone skilled in the art?

    6. Re:Funding? by Sepodati · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the difference is in incorporating an "identfiication signal" in the original request that is then processed and determines the file to return. So it's not just requesting "foo.txt" and returning it. But, I would think any program that processes GET or POST data and returns a file based on those "identification signals" would be a violation or prior art for this "invention".

    7. Re:Funding? by Qzukk · · Score: 4, Informative

      The patent covers using the page the request was made from to decide what file you should get. The original patent was filed in the UK in April 1996 and discusses the HTTP protocol and the referrer address, but RFC 1945 was published a month later and defined the HTTP protocol (including the misspelling of referer). Perhaps this information was added to the US version of the patent when it was filed in March 1997.

      This seems like something they could get a few bucks each out of the various blogs that forbid hotlinking by serving up goatse whenever the referer URL for a picture is some other site. But I guess they can get more than a few bucks out of Google and AOL, even if it's not really clear how they infringe on the patent.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    8. Re:Funding? by slazzy · · Score: 2

      I wish that if they can't get rid of software patents, they could just change them so that the most someone could be liable for is the possible percentage of lost revenue for the plaintiff. In other words, if the plaintiff is a troll and has no product the most they could sue for is $0, because they haven't lost any sales.

      --
      Website Just Down For Me? Find out
    9. Re:Funding? by rtfa-troll · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So yeah, my apache anti-leaching script in the 90s (That substituted a photo of an erect dick whenever an image was leached) was a total patent thievery acomplished via time-travel or something.

      Did you publish it? If so, push the link to Google's lawyers (dropping it on an anti-patent site like Groklaw will do, if you don't want to talk directly to Google). Everyone will appreciate that. It might seem stupid, but it can be really hard to find examples of obvious ideas from the distant past.

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
    10. Re:Funding? by Widowwolf · · Score: 2
      --
      ~~"Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~~Dennis Miller
    11. Re:Funding? by Vitani · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So it was granted in 2000, and they sat on it for 12 years, let other people use their "invention" and only _then_ do they sue. Maybe patents should be like trademarks(?) - if you don't defend them, you lose them? It's not like they could argue they didn't know Google or AOL existed until now ...

    12. Re:Funding? by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 2

      BT's R&D department derives from GPO Research Centre Dollis Hill, founded 1914, which built the Colossus computer.... so they do have some history of innovation

      But this looks like a company setup to be a Patent Troll using some offloaded patents BT couldn't be bothered with ...

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    13. Re:Funding? by Shagg · · Score: 2

      You're assuming they read them. Personally, I think they just blindly rubber stamp everything that comes across their desk.

      --
      Unix is user friendly, it's just selective about who its friends are.
    14. Re:Funding? by SlippyToad · · Score: 2

      Then, what do we need patent clerks for? We could outsource that function to the same people who fucking process insurance claims or drivers' license applications. If they're not going to do any fucking critical thinking, then let's find some minimum-wage hacks to not think in their stead. Saves us some money, right?

      --
      One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
    15. Re:Funding? by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      This seems like something they could get a few bucks each out of the various blogs that forbid hotlinking by serving up goatse whenever the referer URL for a picture is some other site.


      Goatse, patent 37404666: a virtual mutilated anatomy device to dissuade users from continuing an unwanted action by inducing psychological trauma to maximize the memory and influence of the warning for the lifetime of the target user.

  2. Re:Oh no! Google AND AOL? by amiga3D · · Score: 2

    AOL? American Organization of Lamers?

  3. Re:Wanna get rich fast? by Lisias · · Score: 2

    It makes me wonder why they're allowed to exist in the first place. Trolls, not humans.

    I'm pretty sure the trolls are asking themselves the same question about us... :-)

    --
    Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
  4. Enough already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This never-ending series of X sues Y articles bores the shit out of me. Constantly presenting them implies the average technology reader does, or should, have an abiding interest in these corporate hijinks, these capitalist dick-length spats, the outcomes of which are of concern chiefly to powerful, monied interests and their lawyers.

    The degree to which our attention is focused on this garbage shows how much our souls are being sucked dry. Science, math, even technology offers much more than this kind of crap.

    1. Re:Enough already by kvvbassboy · · Score: 2

      My prediction : 201x will be referred to as the decade when the software patent and copyright bubble burst.

    2. Re:Enough already by MrLint · · Score: 4, Funny

      You sir/madam are overly optimistic.

    3. Re:Enough already by kermidge · · Score: 2

      Ditto, but the results of all the crapola can and does affect what we use how we use it - be its drugs, electronics, software, and our access to and participation on the net.

      Do I want to be aware of this stuff? I'd prefer not to be but it's part of the sea in which I swim, kinda hard to avoid. Should I be aware of it? I dunno, man, some days I really don't know.

      "Science, math, even technology offers much more than this kind of crap." Yes indeedy-do. Which make them interesting and useful, and also fertile ground for litigious types especially under current law. Just doing, reviewing, and publishing research is a mess, let alone trying to make something useful.

      Hey, you want to make a better mousetrap? Great! Hire a team of patent attorneys, wait three years, and you're left with an open-source robot built with open source 3-D printed parts and stuff from the hardware store, using open-source software, wielding a stick that didn't come from a GM'ed tree, and a piece of cheese.

    4. Re:Enough already by mwfischer · · Score: 2

      Yes let's ignore the problem.

      It'll go away.

  5. Lawyers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Someone really needs to find something more constructive for these lawyers to do, like lining the bottom of the oceans.

    1. Re:Lawyers by viperidaenz · · Score: 4, Funny

      But there are so many of them they'll increase the sea levels... unless the increased mass pushes the sea floor down further making the oceans deeper...

  6. Snippet patent prior art by DRichardHipp · · Score: 3, Informative

    Showing the use of a search term in context (i.e. showing a "snippet") is a feature of a concordance - a kind of document that has been produced manually for hundreds of years. So there seems to be lots of prior art.

    1. Re:Snippet patent prior art by gmhowell · · Score: 3, Informative

      Showing the use of a search term in context (i.e. showing a "snippet") is a feature of a concordance - a kind of document that has been produced manually for hundreds of years.
      So there seems to be lots of prior art.

      Ahh, but this patent seems to use the 'on a computer' trump card, thus invalidating whatever medieval concordance you may reference.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    2. Re:Snippet patent prior art by SuperSlacker64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why is there not a 'Sad Truth' moderation?

  7. Re:Patents by geminidomino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's not the problem. Patents already do expire in X number of years.

    The problem is twofold:

    1. "X" is an eternity in an industry where "obsolete" means "more than six months old"

    2. The patents are being granted on utter bullshit 'inventions,' bogus 'business processes,' and algorithms, and are not properly researched or vetted before being rubber stamped.

    Your solution really doesn't solve anything.

  8. Re:Patents by king+neckbeard · · Score: 2

    Inventions are cumulative. There are inventions that are hundreds or thousands of years old that are still used as part of modern technology. However, the base invention itself is obsolete.

    --
    This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  9. Re:Altavista predates the snippets patent by rtfa-troll · · Score: 2

    It's not enough that they had snippets; they had to have snippets which worked in the same way as described in the patent. More importantly they need to have either patented how it worked or published that. If you do know such a publication putting it up would be really helpful to someone.

    --
    =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
  10. They've patented math... by rayharris · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you go read the patent, there are two things to note.

    First, is that the patent provides very explicit flow charts that describe the algorithm that generates the summary. All Google and AOL have to do to win is show that they generate their summaries using a different algorithm.

    Second, is that the patent is for an algorithm to calculate which section should be shown in a summary. You cannot patent algorithms. The patent shouldn't have been awarded in the first place.

    I hate the USPTO and I hold a (hardware) patent.

    --
    I void warranties.
  11. Referer header is unarguably Prior Art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Although the RFC was only published a month later, it had been circulating in draft and discussion forms for over a year before it was published, and the notion of the Referer header and its use by servers in deciding what content to return was already public knowledge by the time of both patent application and publication.

    In short, this is yet another fraudulent patent where someone has claimed to invent something that was already standard practice. The patent-holder and applicants should be prosecuted for attempting to obtain money by deception. The egregious criminal bastards just took something that was being developed in a public standards process, wrote it up in generic and abstract terms, and rush-filed a patent just ahead of the completion of the standards process. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on.