Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: What's Your Beef With Windows Phone?
First time accepted submitter occasional_dabbler writes "Reviews by 'commentators' such as this one predict certain doom for both Nokia and Microsoft on the basis of the OS being a failure, yet whenever the Lumia handsets are reviewed in the mainstream press they are often highly praised. Windows phone is an immature OS, certainly, but it does pretty much everything you need in a smartphone, is getting better with each update and it is beautiful. I have a Lumia 800, and now I'm used to how it and the WP OS works I find it a painful process to go back to an Android or iPhone for some obscure app not yet supported on WP. WP gave me the same feeling I got when I bought my first iBook, fired up OS X 10.1 and realized I had just been shifted up a decade. So why so serious? What do Slashdotters who have really tried WP think of it?"
All those f*ckin' tiles drive me nuts! It's like a kindergardener's art project!
it's a desktop everywhere you don't need one.
So there is irrational rabid hate for it.
When Nokia effectively became a Microsoft subsidiary, they killed off all their linux-based cell phones. If that's not enough to enrage an average slashdotter, I don't know what is.
It's about as bad as when automotive bought up streetcar lines to destroy them and replace them with buses.
I just know that between Android and iPhone, I've got enough alternatives for my next phone choice to be easy (I'd likely be satisfied with either, and would just try to see which is better between the two). Microsoft hasn't made anything in the last 12 years that I'd want to buy instead of their competition, so I suppose just their reputation is enough to keep me away unless I hear they've come up with something truly revolutionary.
I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
Not compatible with iTunes App Store content.
So were the junky 4-color IBM PCs that went "beep" instead of producing real music. And the godawful Windows 3.1 of the 90s. Mainstream press opinions mean little to me (especially since they are often bribed to give glowing reviews).
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
I don't care what the OS is but I do care what apps are available. Microsoft is in the unusual position of having a hard time attracting developers to their platform.
As an occasional mobile developer, I have limited resources and develop for where the people are. If I want an audience willing to pay, I would target iOS (never have so far). If I want a broad audience, Android. There really isn't anything compelling about Windows Phone to me.
Microsoft has billions in the bank and I think they could turn this around if they worked out a deal with the carriers to give customers a $10 credit each month for the app store. They could easily afford it because there just aren't that many Windows Phones out there. If those few owners became big spenders though, that could trigger more development on the platform which in turn might attract more users.
just because of past experience with both on other platforms.
I want a device that I own and can control what goes on it, what it does, and when it updates. Apple all but openly admits it is a walled-garden, so that's out. Microsoft doesn't control the software available on it's OS' as much, but it still flexes it's muscles too much w.r.t. the standards it uses.
Android isn't perfect, it isn't the best. But if I get a phone that runs android I know I have some measure of control of my device as a consumer. I have no such promises from Apple or Microsoft.
I swear they give me mod points to shut me up.
Despite it's outdated UI, I was a fan of Windows Mobile 6.x because of its openness and the resulting flexibility. In locking down WP7 so much, Windows Phone is essentially a "Microsoft iPhone". If I wanted an iPhone, I would just buy an iPhone.
Redesigning the UI to be touch friendly, while keeping the openness of Windows mobile 6.x would have kept me interested.
Android sucks in its own special ways, but at least I have the flexibility to mold it into the tool that I want.
I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
favorite company. interesting way to put it.
do I like microsoft? not that much.
do I like apple. not very much at all!
do I like google? to be honest, not that much at all, and less and less as time marches on.
do I like any of the carriers? certainly not!
I'm just not that enthused about the whole phone thing, to be honest. its not fun, it can be a HUGE time waster (just configuring it to remove the crap that most ship with, getting bugs worked out, 'managing' it, etc.) and its not even something I can really own, anyway (not the radio code, not a lot of things in phones). its STILL not like a pc in that I can own or understand or control every part.
so, color me *bored* about the whole phone thing. its a huge cost (monthly in money and in time) and I'm just not all that into this gadget direction. I know a lot of people are, but for this gadget freak (and believe me, I have a ton of gear of various kinds) phones just don't do anything for me. there's so much to NOT like about the whole thing.
all I ask is that it be able to dial out, accept incoming calls, keep the call error-free during the call time and have reasonable battery life. beyond that, I really don't need a portable computer 'on me' at every waking moment. I just don't.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
I highly doubt the freetards are why everyone buys Android and iPhone. They make up a tiny fraction of cell phone users.
No, my dear troll, the real answer is that no one wants to carry Windows about with them.
Windows isn't for hipsters. Windows isn't for nerds. Windows isn't for grandma.
Windows is for losers, in all of it's incarnations.
That's why Windows has such soft sales figures.
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
i've had an iphone since 2009
i have thousands of apps for it, even though i don't use them all
there are some really crazy apps for iOS that do things no one imagined a few years ago
iOS is well past cool upgrades and is now on the improving usability every year cycle
Windows Phone is way behind
a lot less app support
its not cheaper
Why switch? what is it going to do better than iOS?
I'm a Canadian so I'm not sure how true this is, but I think Europeans tend to look at disdain at Microsoft as a corporation. The were convicted as abusing their monopoly in the EU and in the US, but election of GWB gave them a free pass in the US penalty phase.
Having Nokia effectively surrender their crown jewels to Microsoft by a former Microsoft exec doesn't exactly do any favours to image of Nokia as a strong and vibrant company. Perception is more than half the battle to marketing, and marketing is a huge component to smart phones (very few people actually NEED one).
That's just from outside the fishbowl looking in. Also telegraphing your moves before you have a plan in place is such a dumb idea. To paraphrase Steve Jobs, Nokia should have milked all their 'legacy' technologies dry while working on the 'next great thing (whether it was with Microsoft or not).' Instead they drove a heart through their products publicly and called it a day.
I'll probably get modded down for this, but the same could be said for Linux, particularly on the desktop. Yet Slashdotters don't hate Linux in spite of all the half-finished applications and constant promises that fixes to long standing bugs are "just around the corner," do they?
Seems a bit hypocritical to complain about about this same issue when it comes to a Microsoft product.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
Like the typical left-brained slashdotter, I'm a technologist who values my "geek cred".
And throughout WP7's life (especially early, but still today) you need to defy logic and judgement and rational thinking just a little too much in order to buy a WinPhone. You needed to pretend that missing features weren't important. You needed to suffer lies and contempt regarding updates. You had to ignore all the productivity and fun and relevance that other smartphone owners were enjoying. You had to tolerate a weak ecosystem. You had to apologize for Microsoft's mis-steps.
That's just too much.
Slashdot: come for the pedantry, stay for the condescension.
You sound like a classic apologist. The summary of this article already happily states that Windows 7.5 is still a immature OS... version 7.5
You say "it takes a little bit of time to learn". Apologists speak for "it is unintuitive as hell but finally after hours of trying, you managed to get it to turn on".
The entire problem with the MS phones is that the fanboys are trying to win the rest over with the same bullshit they have been trying for a dozen or more versions of MS attempts at a mobile OS. If the bullshit hasn't changed a bit, why should we believe the product has?
Lets review, Windows 7.5, the only mobile OS to be single core only. The only mobile OS to be restricted to a single resolution. The list goes on and on. The only people who like it are MS fanboys, reviews are not positive, at best they are "not as bad as expected". The fact is that MS has been producing phones that cost a premium but just can't compete. You can argue whether quad cores are needed or not but charging the same price for a single core is just not on. iPhone does retina displays, MS stays way way way behind in the pixel race.
It ain't cutting edge and it ain't cheap. So why buy it? Because it is MS? As others have said, MS is a negative brand, people AVOID MS if they can because they hate the moments they can't. There are some that are 100% MS and they like it because it stops them having to learn anything else. But the sales are to low to conclude it is just geek prejudice against MS. The sales figures are so low the opposite might well be true, only those with a prejudice against anything NOT MS are buying it.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
That's true...
Microsoft basically took everything that was good about Windows Mobile and removed it... Windows Phone 7 is MASSIVELY crippled compared to its predecessor, all it has to offer is a shiny UI.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I don't get the impression that the majority of people really care about MS's abusive behaviour or anything like that (even if they should).
You underestimate the influence of mavens. The average user is not going to drop dollars on a phone or phone plan if their favourite tech expert doesn't like it.
The notable exceptions here would be Windows and iOS, but for two very different reasons. People use Windows because everybody else uses Windows, and it would be just too inconvenient to change. It's a form of lock-in. People use iOS thanks to a combination of effective marketing and design.
Windows phone has little to no lock-in leverage, and MS and its partners have done nothing to pull millions of happy iphonesters away from Apple. Much like Linux on the desktop, it's not good enough for WPn to be as good as iOS, they have to be compellingly better--and convince people of this--to win mindshare at this point. In a karmic twist, MS now finds itself at both ends of this problem.
So with the average user feeling somewhat indifferent about Windows Phone, and their techy friends recommending iphones and android, MS stands without a market until they do something drastic and carve out their own, and it's been decades since they've done anything really significant in that vein.
I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
But Windows Phone has no excuse for being late to the party.
WinCE displaced PalmOS, to the extent that most of the Palm-brand phones had WinCE on them. Microsoft is NOT new to the smartphone market--they were there when it got started, before we were even sure we were going to call them smartphones.
Microsoft is not like Apple or Google; both of whom brought phone OSes to market when they had never produced a phone OS before. Apple had experience with Newton, ages ago, but all Google had was the ability to look for things.
That's part of why we're not cutting Microsoft any slack.
The other part is, all the people who said it was unacceptable that the iPhone didn't do X when version 1 or 2 were on the market means that Microsoft should ALREADY KNOW the system MUST do X. They didn't need to release "what they've got so far" to find out what customers really want, they can see what the market has already done.
And Microsoft is huge and has gobs of money; why SHOULD we cut them any slack? This isn't the clever little Silicon Valley start-up upstart taking on the Man. This is the Man.
Quoting you: "I view Windows Phone as sort of a middle ground between the totalitarian iPhone and the free-for-all Android" and you said "I'm forced to use Linux for my day job". These are not the words of an impartial observer as you pretend to be. As everybody knows, the first rule in the astroturfers rule book is "establish your credentials", then of course go on to try to damage your target.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
You underestimate the influence of mavens. The average user is not going to drop dollars on a phone or phone plan if their favourite tech expert doesn't like it.
True, but the mavens are not motivated by hatred against Microsoft. They are motivated because:
1. iOS and Android have been proven to work.
2. iOS and Android have a large ecosphere of apps. And tech users. And non-tech users.
3. iOS this and Android that.
Apple, Samsung and HTC have repeatedly been on the top of "best phone" lists for years now. Nokia's Windows phone is not being ignored because it is worse or disliked, it is being ignored because no one has one in the first place to offer a recommendation. Under those circumstances it's not good enough to compete, one has to be better. And it's not significantly better.
Nokia's Windows phone is not being ignored because it is worse or disliked
Having tried several W7 phones, I agree with Tomi Ahonen. It's not good enough and doesn't do enough.
9. From TFA:
"Reason 9 - the OS is deficient. The Windows Phone OS can seem exciting when first seen with its 'Tiles' but on short usage it reveals how limited and unfinished it is. The tech reviews after using Windows Phone (and Lumia) are quite consistent that Windows Phone is not yet ready for prime time. It may become so in the future, but its not yet nearly competitive with advanced OS platforms out there."
Android works for me. iOS works for many others, and Microsoft's phones bring nothing compelling to the table to make either switch.
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."