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China Completes Its First Manned Space Docking
This AP story, as carried by the Houston Chronicle, says that the Chinese Shenzhou 9 spacecraft (carrying a crew that includes the country's first female astronaut) has successfully docked with an orbiting module, a first for China's manned space program. However, manned mission or not, the actual docking was actually executed from below: as with previous docking maneuvers, "Monday's docking also was completed by remote control from a ground base in China. A manual docking, to carried out by one of the crew members, is scheduled for later in the mission. Two crew members plan to conduct medical tests and experiments inside the module, while the third will remain in the spacecraft."
Now everyone will want to do it
Slow but steady progress since initiating this program in 1992.
With a first Chinese moonwalk estimated for 2024 that is 32 years total (with already 50 years of rocket research in the world to leverage off) ... makes you understand just much the US threw at its lunar programme to manage going from the start of the Mercury program to moonwalk in less than 11 years
I wonder what kind of "medical tests and experiments" a mixed-gender crew might undergo in microgravity.
There, I fixed that for /.
"[...] the country's first female astronaut) has successfully docked [...]"
Look... I apologize already for the insult, okay? But it isn't entirely undeserved.
Making extensive use of, well, let's say "borrowed" technology -- not to mention the outright theft of some of it -- is hardly equivalent to doing this stuff on your own.
If it's a success, I will be somewhat surprised, and not very inclined to credit them for it.
I know. American scientists were able to get to the Moon without using any technology from any other cultures. Every other country should have to do the same. The Chinese shouldn't even be able to use those rockets we invented thousands of years ago.
(For the sarcastically disabled, I know who invented the rocket)
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...carrying a crew that includes the country's first female astronaut... A manual docking, to carried out by one of the crew members, is scheduled... Two crew members plan to conduct medical tests and experiments...
...giggity.
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Automatic orbital rendezvous and docking is no mean feat. Respect to the engineers involved.
What cracks me up, is how silly and inmature the mainland Chinese are as a nation though. They are so insecure, that they have to send the hottest female fighter pilot they could find into space, and then Photoshopped all the pictures. There's obviously no word for "tokenism" in the Chinese language.
The Chinese Communist Party is sooooo insecure. Everything they do is about making or preserving face, rather than merely trying to generally do the right thing, as in the West. It's hilarious, sad and piss weak.
There were men, too. I would call it "humanned space docking", so that nobody can complain.
Hmm... Well...
You mean "borrowed" in the sense like the USA did when using the techniques developed in Nazi Germany?
And why should you develop something yourself when the knowledge is available? Most techniques used by the NASA are not especially top-secret as far as I know. So - why spend an big budget on something that's freely available?
I think there is a good chance the first man on Mars will be Chinese. Not because they are that good, but because they slowly bit steadily keep pushing forward, while the USA is stepping down. Anyway by the time of those first manned mars landing, I estimate the biggest budget in the USA will be spend on thousands of lawyers fighting the (around that time completely out-of-control) software patent wars (inside the USA, because outside the USA people are not that stupid).
"They're starving back in China, so finish what you got." is a line from a John Lennon song, when I was a kid that's what mother's told their children when trying to persuade them to eat thier veggies. There were several famines due to Mao's "great leap" the worst of which was without doubt the worst in the 20th century (and perhaps of all time). I was too young to recall that one but I do recall the one in 1969 (the same year Armstrong set foot on the moon).
It's said (by who I don't recall) that China has dragged more people out of poverty in the last 4 decades than the rest of the world combined by simply raising the standard of living for their own people. Having wittnessed (from afar) the scale of the change since the gang of four were booted out in the 70's, I'm inclined to believe that claim.
Que paranoid rants about governments from 20-somethings with cheeto filled stomachs, in...3...2....1
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Making extensive use of, well, let's say "borrowed" technology
Yes, China borrowed from the US space program, which borrowed from the German V2 program, which borrowed from fireworks, which were invented by guess who? That's how civilizations progress, a failure to comprehend that basic fact of life is a failure to comprehend all of human history.
[I'm] not very inclined to credit them for it
That's just sour grapes.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
us europeans are impressed by how effective the chinese have become. very unlike the US&A and their most recent mishap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7jENWKgMPY
Making extensive use of, well, let's say "borrowed" technology -- not to mention the outright theft of some of it -- is hardly equivalent to doing this stuff on your own.
How dare you criticize the US Space Program like this. Admittedly the spoils of war go to the victor and the Nazi Germans can't really complain now about the "theft" of their technology by Americans and Russians now since they were overthrown, but still this is hardly the equivalent of doing stuff on your own. Oh wait - what?
On a more serious note - most progress is nothing but a series of incremental improvements on existing technology. Unless you happen to be an expert on both the US and Chinese space programs and can show me exactly where China copied the US verbatim, the point you are trying to make is completely irrelevant. I'm sure the Chinese rockets are built the Chinese way - with engineering short cuts and differences that make them entirely different and worthy of credit.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Look... I apologize already for the insult, okay? But it isn't entirely undeserved.
Making extensive use of, well, let's say "borrowed" technology -- not to mention the outright theft of some of it -- is hardly equivalent to doing this stuff on your own.
If it's a success, I will be somewhat surprised, and not very inclined to credit them for it.
So I guess the credit for the the successful american space program in the 60's goes to the germans. ;).
The more people working on manned space flight, the more likely we'll solve the problems and make interplanetary and even interstellar travel a realistic possibility. I'm all for this. Having more groups with space capacity also means more chances of helping each other in case of emergencies. Plus to be selfish it's more likely I might get to have a go sometime in the next few decades :-)
Perhaps there's a split between engineering fields and pure science fields? In pure science, everybody seems really happy when international collaborations happen and results are shared, and junior scientists are supported by more senior ones from other places. But with (space) engineering, there seems to be more of a nationalist / us vs. them attitude? Any thoughts on why? Perhaps it is more to do with applied vs. theoretic progress in a field? nobody wants the other guys to make money/ get military advantage?
No need for inventing new words: crewed.
Look... I apologize already for the insult, okay? But it isn't entirely undeserved.
Making extensive use of, well, let's say "borrowed" technology -- not to mention the outright theft of some of it -- is hardly equivalent to doing this stuff on your own.
If it's a success, I will be somewhat surprised, and not very inclined to credit them for it.
So I guess the credit for the the successful american space program in the 60's goes to the germans. ;).
Especially given that the man instrumental in the US space program back then was actually a german the US recruited at the end of the war.
I dont read
This explains it perfectly: http://www.xkcd.com/984/
Because science is often done and shared among scientists, often relatively small scale, often inconsequential to international power hierarchies.
Space is nationalist because of the status implied, the technology implied which has direct military corollaries and extensions. People doing materials research for anti-radar and other stealth technologies don't tell the world either, are you as surprised by that?
It is interesting the Chinese have managed this, though I am not sure how useful this will be. It might have been better to work together with the other parties on the international space station. I was actually suprised that it has taken so long to get the first female into space as China has a rather 50/50 division of the sexes in the engineering field. As a matter of fact, I work in a institute that is part of the Chinese Academy of Sciences and I think that in my office there are more women than men as far as engineers are concerned.
Was it some Chinese dude in the 1500s with a lawn chair and fireworks?
This just in: It would appear that NASA has been infested with crickets. When reporters called the NASA switchboard seeking comment on China's latest achievement, this is all that could be heard.
Actually with all the science, open and public information available, drawings of space vehicles and the the how to do's that are open to our allies, all they needed was the willful cooperation of one of our companies, to put a man in space. To create the next space race, to militarize space. You know the old saw about being at the top of the hill. Easier to shoot down.But still have not seen anything on the midwestern news about their joy, or their accomplishments.
The Germans borrowed from Robert Goddard who invented liquid fueled rockets
The US didn't just used techniques developed in Nazi Germany. They had Nazis from Nazi Germany built the rockets for them. Basically, americans just provided the money and sat back while the Nazis built their freedom rockets.
China Completes Its First woManned Space Docking
I can't see through your sarcasm. You know an American invented the rocket right?
Wrong. American rocket technology was based on Nazi technology. Project paperclip.
Making extensive use of, well, let's say "borrowed" technology
Yes, China borrowed from the US space program,
Do you really think so?
The Chinese stuff looks much more like a copy of the Soviet/Russian stuff to me.
After all, why copy something that you know didn't work?
Watch this Heartland Institute video
It would be more accurate to say that Saturn technology was based on Nazi technology. But the German technology was based on American technology, specifically Goddard's.
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
The US didn't just used techniques developed in Nazi Germany. They had Nazis from Nazi Germany built the rockets for them. Basically, americans just provided the money and sat back while the Nazis built their freedom rockets.
This is so patently false that I simply must say you are full of it.
Yes, there were many of the rocket engineers who worked on the V-2 rockets of Nazi Germany which were hired by the U.S. Army Ordinance Command at the conclusion of World War II (through something called Operational Paperclip). Their contribution and experience was vital for developing the early ICBMs and rockets that later were developed by NASA as well as the U.S. Air Force.
All this said, it is ignoring the contribution and hard work by thousands of engineers and aerospace workers who helped to contribute to the development of American spaceflight. There is no way that the "Nazis" could have built all of this stuff without the insight and extremely hard work by ordinary Americans. Yes, they learned a whole lot from the German scientists, but this is gross oversimplification of what actually happened and is frankly insulting too.
You both fail. These would work, yes, as alternative titles to the article, but they have no trolling value so they're useless for the purpose of the OP AC's suggestion. OK the GP's version would admittedly still troll the more sensitive to linguistics people, but that'd be a comparatively incomplete subset.
Here's a link to a news article showing them three waving from the Tiangong-1 spacelab:
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/special/shenzhou9/index.htm
(a bit surprised the Slashdot article was refering to a Houston newspaper not Xinhua net).
I always though Space Docking involved a man and a woman.
Different AC. Obviously there are many who contribute to a space program.
I do take exception to your apparent diminishing the contribution of the "Germans". All indications are they were a large portion of the "American" space program through at least the Apollo era.
Given that Qian_Xuesen was an "American" handler of vBraun and Co. after the war, the "American" space program was ironically partly "Chinese".
Armchair quarterbacks like yourself might do well steering a neutral course, lest you come across as a incestuous loser.
We should compliment them and applaud their achievement, I'm guessing...the blurb is light on factual details. Look, we're all nation states now, but it's likely your antecedents and theirs will intermingle at some point (if it hasn't happened already.)
Mandarin is a fine ad hoc, potentially de facto language.
So either we'll look back on this as an achievement of humanity, or possibly look back on it as a bag of soylent green.
Do corporations really merit personhood? I mean, most of our robots are way closer.
Bender, for instance.
We should compliment them and applaud their achievement, I'm guessing...the blurb is light on factual details. Look, we're all nation states now, but it's likely your antecedents and theirs will intermingle at some point (if it hasn't happened already.) Mandarin is a fine ad hoc, potentially de facto language. So either we'll look back on this as an achievement of humanity, or possibly look back on it as a bag of soylent green. Do corporations really merit person-hood? I mean, most of our robots are way closer. Bender, for instance. *sorry for re post...I just like to keep track of my own opinions for when I choose to question them...and I am not an anonymous coward 40-60% of the time.
American astronauts wouldn't put up with being spam in a can while everything was controlled from the ground.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Was it man-on-man docking, or something more in line with our interests?
Or was it symmetrical docking? I'd skip the manned docking, but symmetrical docking with nice breasts is something I'd stick around for.
y'all been trolled...
> And they stole all our rocket secrets in the 90's.
Says an American - from a country whose most used rocket is running on a Russian RD-180 engine.
Ho Lee Crap, how off Earth did you miss the nearly automatic Goodwin play on that hand?!!!!
Here, it's not hard :
Says an American - from a country whose moon program was built by all the best repatriated NAZI rocket scientists.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Heck yah!
Don't forget the Canadians that got laid off from the Avro Arrow project and went on to work for NASA and build the Lunar Landing Module.
Iran is going to go up there and knock over the American flag.
Heck, that could be done by a robotic mission. It wouldn't even be that hard (relatively speaking) to burn a American flag on the moon.
What are you going to do about that , mr toughguy Great Satan ? !
Obviously we need a crash moonbase program to base space rangers on the moon to oversee and preserve such great Human historical sites.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
So we're arbitrarily drawing the line at liquid rockets?!
I presume the STS only partially existed in your universe?
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Well, she's no Lisa Nowak...
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
"know. American scientists were able to get to the Moon without using any technology from any other cultures. Every other country should have to do the same."
And for those of you who are understatement challenged: that's not quite the same thing.
The Nazis didn't get their liquid-fuel rocket technology from the Chinese. They got it from the United States. And we didn't get it from China either. We invented it.
In fact, up until the moon landings and for quite some time after, the US and Russia invented just about every bit of technology that went into manned space exploration, with -- just fact -- very little help from other countries.
And all the while (and even recently), we kept catching Chinese spies scattered around the space program.
I didn't just make this stuff up, you know.
And to add to what Teancum stated:
There really wasn't all that much in V2 rocket technology to "borrow", except for some somewhat-improved engines over what the US already had.
Fun fact: V2 rockets did not work worth a damn. Many of them exploded, too, and half of them or more missed their targets.
"Admittedly the spoils of war go to the victor and the Nazi Germans can't really complain now about the "theft" of their technology"
Almost everybody who keeps mentioning "Nazi" technology here has missed a couple of very large points:
(A) The V2 rocket was a failure. Yes, some of them hit England and caused havoc. But more than half of them didn't. Many exploded en route, and less than half actually hit near their targets.
(B) We did not "steal" that Nazi technology, we bought it, after the war. Von Braun was in the U.S., and other German engineers were contracted. They were neither enslaved, or robbed.
(C) The Germans got most of that technology from us in the first place. They made some improvements, but this is precisely the kind of "incremental improvement" you refer to.
But having said that:
"... most progress is nothing but a series of incremental improvements on existing technology."
True. But manned space exploration was an exception. Most of the technology was invented wholesale, independently, in the U.S. and Soviet Union. (I'm not just talking rocket engines.) Other countries honestly didn't contribute much, until AFTER it was a done deal.
I'm glad they had a woman on the crew. That type of Space Docking: shitting in her vagina is a bit more acceptable than the other kind where two guys pull their foreskins over the heads of each others penises and rub them around!
So the same argument can be used for China then. They sent their kids over her to be educated and what do you know, they paid attention in class and the asian kid always got the good grades in Engineering and Physics and now they have their own universities and departments and can build their own stuff. They "bought" the technology too. Or is it just so easy to sneak into NASA and start copying everything verbatim? But wait, how would a spy in NASA explain the advances in Chinese heavy industry? Did the NASA spies also steal plans to build high speed railroads, like the ones in use all over the US? How about the Chinese semiconductor industry? Did they get that from NASA too? Or are you trying to say there are Chinese spies everywhere?
Or maybe, just maybe, the Chinese aren't as dumb as you think they are by refusing to give them any credit. After all it's much easier to throw R&D dollars towards something you already know is possible especially when those R&D dollars go much further thanks to wage differences and (lack of) environmental laws. And when you have an economy the size of China's, growing at the rate which China's is, you have plenty of money to spend.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
The V2 rocket was a failure. Yes, some of them hit England and caused havoc. But more than half of them didn't. Many exploded en route, and less than half actually hit near their targets.
V2 was a failure in military terms, sure, much like most German wunderwaffen. But it was certainly a major and quite successful "first" in rocket technology, and further advances in rocketry for both Americans and Soviets were directly based on V2.
We did not "steal" that Nazi technology, we bought it, after the war. Von Braun was in the U.S., and other German engineers were contracted. They were neither enslaved, or robbed.
German scientists were rounded up and shipped over to US at the gunpoint - look up Operation Paperclip. They were paid for their work, sure, and I guess that many if not most were quite happy to leave the war-torn Germany, but they couldn't really refuse either way.
The Germans got most of that technology from us in the first place. They made some improvements, but this is precisely the kind of "incremental improvement" you refer to.
How much von Braun really took from Goddard is debatable, but it's beside the point of OP. Goddard did not develop his work from scratch in a vacuum, either.
I don't understand why no one mentioned this here. The Chinese rockets are based on the Russian Soyuz. The spacesuits look similar to Russian, because they are Russian.
"In 1994, Russia sold some of its advanced aviation and space technology to the Chinese. In 1995 a deal was signed between the two countries for the transfer of Russian Soyuz spacecraft technology to China. Included in the agreement was training, provision of Soyuz capsules, life support systems, docking systems, and space suits."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenzhou_spacecraft
Everyone wants to have billions and trillions that they can spend spend spend, without having to work for it
Every geek wants to have sexy gf with big boobs
Every nation wants to be the King of the World
But can anyone afford to do anything anytime anywhere?
Of course, China wants to be many things
It may even wants to be the first nation establishing a base on the moon
But it doesn't mean China will do it the way other countries (USA and former USSR) had done - China may opt to do it a firm and careful step at a time
Their "TianGong" space module experiment become a reality thanks to USA, Europe, Russia and Japan.
It's because the above-mentioned had blocked China's joining the ISS, that China had no choice but to build their own space station
China's next move, according to my own observation, is to build a space-station that can double as half-way-station between planet Earth and Moon (and maybe beyond)
They may want to build a space-station that not only be used to carry out zero-gravity experiments, but also, doubles as a warehouse, a parking lot, a fuel depot, and a R & R spot for their space crews
And they may even want to build another space station orbiting the Moon, to enable them to go even further, like Mars
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
But by then he'd transitioned to a political/managerial role from the more hands-on engineering role he played at Peenemünde.
"They sent their kids over her to be educated and what do you know, they paid attention in class and the asian kid always got the good grades in Engineering and Physics and now they have their own universities and departments and can build their own stuff. They "bought" the technology too"
I felt it was pretty clear that it wasn't the HONEST part I was referring to. I don't deny there was plenty of that as well.
"German scientists were rounded up and shipped over to US at the gunpoint - look up Operation Paperclip."
They were nothing of the sort. Look it up yourself.
JOIA went so far as to expunge some of their records as Nazis before bringing them over... not at gunpoint at all, but through negotiatons and lucrative offers.
Sheesh. Talk about twisting the truth.
"How much von Braun really took from Goddard is debatable..."
No it isn't. Liquid fuel rocketry did not exist before Goddard. Sheesh again.
"... but it's beside the point of OP"
It might have been beside the point of OP, but it wasn't beside the comment I made, or the many other comments in response to it.
"Goddard did not develop his work from scratch in a vacuum, either."
Actually, yes, he pretty much did. Nothing even remotely like it had existed before, and just about everybody thought the very idea was nuts.
JOIA went so far as to expunge some of their records as Nazis before bringing them over... not at gunpoint at all, but through negotiatons and lucrative offers.
Sheesh. Talk about twisting the truth.
Do you understand that the threat of not expunging the records is effectively the "gunpoint" - since otherwise quite a few of them would likely get hefty sentences as part of denazification, and particularly von Braun himself (who was an SS officer).
No it isn't. Liquid fuel rocketry did not exist before Goddard. Sheesh again.
Logic, you lack it. Just because Goddard was the first to experiment with liquid fuel rockets doesn't mean that von Braun took his work wholesale without adding anything significant of his own.
By the way, if you're so keen on priorities, Tsiolkovskiy has designed (not built - but it was a solid engineered design, not just a vague idea) a multistage liquid fueled rocket in 1903.
Actually, yes, he pretty much did. Nothing even remotely like it had existed before, and just about everybody thought the very idea was nuts.
See above.
"Do you understand that the threat of not expunging the records is effectively the "gunpoint" - since otherwise quite a few of them would likely get hefty sentences as part of denazification, and particularly von Braun himself (who was an SS officer)."
Absolute nonsense. If you have committed a felony, and I say to you, "We will drop the charges and pay you handsomely if you come to work for us," that is NOT coercion at the point of a gun. It is incentive. There is a huge difference between positive incentive and threats.
"Just because Goddard was the first to experiment with liquid fuel rockets doesn't mean that von Braun took his work wholesale without adding anything significant of his own."
I didn't say he did. What I said was: Goddard invented it pretty much independently, and Von Braun borrowed a great deal from his accomplishments. I made no claim beyond that. So look to your own logic, fella.
"Tsiolkovskiy has designed (not built - but it was a solid engineered design, not just a vague idea) a multistage liquid fueled rocket in 1903."
So what? Da Vinci drew well-engineered designs of flying machines, in a day when there simply weren't the materials or subtlety of design to make them work. A drawn concept, no matter how well thought out, is not the same thing as building something. If it were that easy, then anybody could have used Tsiolkovsky's design and just built it, right?
But nobody did. Because as designed, it didn't work.
Good job Lockheed Martin! Good job!!! Clinton approved LM going to China to help them with rockets.
Do you really think so?
I have no idea, that was the OP's claim I just extraploated it to the point where the absurdity of her logic was obvious. That method of reasoning is called ad-absurdium for obvious reason.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.