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National "Do Not Kill Registry" Launched In Response To Drone Kill List
First time accepted submitter crtitheories writes "In response to the national kill list revealed by the New York Times a few weeks ago, an online "Do Not Kill" Registry has been launched where users can sign up to avoid being mistakenly added. From the Do Not Kill website: 'Through an active collaboration between the Do not Kill Registry, the brave pilots and operators of the U.S. drone program, and the American public, we believe that we can find the political and moral solutions needed to both protect the security of the United States while also satisfying the concerns of the broader global community'. "
Aren't you a little late for April Fools Day?
There's a spot in User Info for World of Warcraft account names? Really?
We are not at war with another nation-state, thus we are not at war.
Good-bye
Eastasia has always not been a nation-state
After a quick WHOIS search, and a bit of googling, I found that this is registered to an individual who worked in 2009 as a San Francisco Art Institute teaching assistant.
It's a joke site.
Now you tell me, I already enrolled Schrödinger's cat... not because I care about this overused meme, but because I've got money on the outcome.
As an European, let me say that the president of a democracy should not have a list of people he wants dead. Arrested, maybe, although such a list should better be established by Justice, but not dead.
Can we have a "Please Kill" list as well. I have a neighbor with a dog that barks all night that's just itching for a drone attack.
Killing foreigners? Okay. Killing Americans? A violation of the president's oath to uphold Constituional Law: "No person shall... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation." A kill list may exist, but a kill list that includes Americans citizens is tyrannical.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
it's a scam by the CIA, trying to tempt terrorists to fill in their name and whereabouts thinking they'll be safer.
also beware of the "do not steal my identity list", send name, address, SSN, mother's maiden name, bank details to apply
Nullius in verba
"Don't put me on any List" list.
That list couldn't exist, obviously.
I don't know, but it works for me.
I've never understood this concept, that moral rights only apply to American citizens. May be I am not smart enough to grasp the idea.
It seems to be Ok to kill any non-american without due process or self-defense. Even to kill anyone including (or around) his family/kids. It seems also fine to detain and torture foreigners for an undetermined amount of time as long it is done outside USA soil.
Can someone explain it to me? Does it mean, for example, that I can own a slave, as long is not American?
MOD THE CHILD UP!
I am concerned that the President has ordered a capture or kill order that will most likely result in kill, rather than capture, on three US citizens.
I am also concerned that there are three US citizens that most likely are dangerous enough to warrant such an order.
I am much less concerned by who makes this decision at the moment. Right now, for the first time in my life, the sitting President of the United States, an elected official, is personally reviewing the data on terrorists and personally deciding whether or not to attempt to take these people out. He's not handing the job to an analyst or to an assistant-to-an-undersecretary or some other unknown, non-elected bureaucrat. He is personally taking the responsibility and accepting the ramifications of these decisions.
These individuals are members of an organization that has successfully attacked us in the past and that has pledged to attack us in the future. There is no practical way to bring them to legal justice, as they operate as a de facto government in territory that they control. In that sense they nearly are members of a nation-state and the rules of war can be found to apply to them as lieutenants in that de facto government's military structure.
I think that the situation is a terrible, horrible one. But, I also have less qualms about how this is being run than I do about the entire detention/torture system that was in place before it.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
The US is at war with sanity, and has been for quite some time. And sanity is loosing.
And one person's terrorist is another's freedom fighter which is the problem in a nutshell. With something as nebulous and ill defined as "terrorism" frankly ANYBODY can be labeled a terrorist. Considering how some of the PMC like Blackwater and corps like Halliburton have behaved in those countries i would certainly have a hard time labeling anyone fighting to get the USA out of those places to be terrorists but I'm sure that is what they'd be labeled, just as those that fought against the carpet bombing and slaughter of entire villages in Vietnam would have been labeled terrorists then even though we know now that it was a shitty and unjust war.
But in the end wars on ideas simply give the government a blank check, you can fit damned near anything you want under a 'war on terrorism" banner, as we have seen with warrantless wiretapping, rendition rides, waterboarding,anything you want can be excused because it all fits under the umbrella.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
After a quick WHOIS search, and a bit of googling, I found that this is registered to an individual who worked in 2009 as a San Francisco Art Institute teaching assistant.
It's a joke site.
Now you tell me, I already enrolled Schrödinger's cat... not because I care about this overused meme, but because I've got money on the outcome.
No, you fool! Betting changes the outcome!
The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
The commander in chief of the most powerful army, navy, and air force in the world has a list of people he wants dead? STOP THE PRESSES! Targeting specific people is not news... it's war. People die when they're killed. Derp.
Pres. Ford issued Executive Order 11905 banning political assassination
Pres Carter: EO 12036 banning US involvement in assassinations
Pres. Regan: EO 12333 No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination.
Pres. Obama: DoD Directive 2310. Incorporates prohibitions against cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment. Bans Water boarding.
Drone assassinations are apparently OK. In fact a "kill list" is perfectly acceptable during an election year...
...for the first sitting president to be a Nobel Peace Prize laureate.
Something's really fucked up here.
if i close my eyes and fire into a crowd, that this somehow mitigates my legal responsibility since i didn't really know whether i was shooting anyone?
Obligatory Simpsons:
Nelson: Shoplifting is a victimless crime, like punching someone in the dark.
>>>In the US, I'd be a lot more concerned if the President were not the one with final say over what the military is up to.
What you SHOULD be concerned about is the President already ordered the execution of 3 U.S. citizens, including an underage minor. I didn't realize the death penalty could be applied without a right to trial (or against juveniles... I thought they were exempt). We live in dangerous days.
The fact that you are more concerned that your President is killing US citizens without charge or trial outside of a warzone than that your President is killing human beings without charge or trial outside of a warzone is at the heart of what is wrong with your country.
You have started down the path where arbitrary murder by the state is sometimes acceptable. You can still turn back, but you need to turn back right now, in relation to all human beings.
It will be interesting to see how the US reacts when, with its power in decline, China or India or Russia start killing civilians in other countries because they are on some "kill list" or other.
Read Pynchon.
It's taken me a long time to come to the realization that the only war that can be justified is if you are fighting on your own land directly against invaders to repel them. The reason is the same as in your personal life. You can use force to defend yourself. But you have to be careful in that you only use force against those attacking you. If someone attacks you and the runs into a crowd you aren't justified in firing into the crowd hoping to hit that person. But that is what war is once you go into another country. You are punishing and killing innocent people in the hopes you might hit a few of the guilty. There is no moral argument for this.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
Hypothetical:
US citizen A joins enemy army.
US citizen A takes action against US while in enemy army.
Is Citizen A guilty of treason?
Yes, he's guilty of treason. Given sufficient evidence for action against the US, Citizen A may even be convicted of treason without a trial.
Traitors are killed. Treason is the only law in the US Constitution that defines its punishment. Technically, they should be hanged, but somehow I don't think it really makes a difference.
The fact that you are more concerned that your President is killing US citizens without charge or trial outside of a warzone than that your President is killing human beings without charge or trial outside of a warzone is at the heart of what is wrong with your country.
Semantics? That is "the heart of what is wrong with your country"? "Wrong with your country" is what... pretentious motherfuckers who post online?
There are many problems in the world and many problems in our country. The only problem identified by your post is you.
American exceptionalism is the problem I am referring to. More traditionally known as 'hubris'. There are some good plays about it, you should check them out. The Greeks had the concept nailed down about 2500 years ago.
Your government and many of your citizens operate on the basis that there are "Americans" and "others". You regard yourselves as special, privileged, the chosen people. You have failed to register that this is obviously not true, nor have you registered that your supposedly permanent hegemony of only a few years ago is already gone.
Once you decide that some are "more equal than others", you lose the ability to impartially assess any situation. The concepts essential to a just, democratic world become unworkable, because they rely on the opposite view, that no-one person or group should be more privileged than any other.
The GP's comment exemplifies the (majority) American mindset - murdering people is only problematic if it offends your constitution. Well, guess what? Fuck your constitution. It's problematic because it's fundamentally wrong, not because it offends some American document which you guys tend to ignore most of the time anyway.
Hence you cannot understand (a) your immense economic problems (b) your immense geopolitical problems or (c) your immense problems with groups of angry foreign men wanting to hurt you. None of it makes sense to you because you cannot see that you are not special, and therefore that there will be no automatic Hollywood ending to these dramas.
Bill Clinton made a speech towards the end of his presidency where he argued strongly that the US should strengthen international institutions and human rights standards as much as possible. His reasoning was that America's time in the sun wouldn't last forever, and that when some other power - China, for instance - was dominant, America would be grateful for strong and liberal democratic international governance. Sadly Bush II and Obama haven't heeded that warning, and have contributed to a world of unilateral murder and mayhem as a result. The precedent of the powerful being entitled to murder the weak instead of pursuing them according to law will have terrible consequences for all of us, I fear.
Read Pynchon.