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Turing Archive Director Questions Alan Turing Suicide Report

That Alan Turing committed suicide is widely accepted as fact. Now, an anonymous reader writes, "According to Professor Jack Copeland, director of the The Turing Archive for the History of Computing, 'The coroner [in Turing's case] didn't really investigate the evidence at all, he just jumped to the conclusion that he committed suicide. He seems to have been very biased from the statements in newspapers at the time.' Copeland further said that medical evidence suggested Turing died from inhaling cyanide rather than drinking or ingesting it."

24 of 121 comments (clear)

  1. All right! by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Slashdot's finally gotten to the point where its stories are driven by the Google Doodle!

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    1. Re:All right! by MrMista_B · · Score: 2

      Compared to the way things have been going, that's actually a big step up.

    2. Re:All right! by artor3 · · Score: 4, Funny

      You're right, back then the stories would be driven by last week's Google Doodle.

  2. Perfect timing by rgbrenner · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's only been a mere 58 years. Now is the time to look into this.

  3. Widely reported as fact ... by MacTO · · Score: 2

    His suicide was widely reported as fact. I have serious doubts that anyone who looked into the life of Turing actually believed that his suicide was a fact. (Opinions seemed to vary from conspiracy theories focussed on a government assassination, to it was probably suicide but the investigation was so botched up that we'll never know.)

    1. Re:Widely reported as fact ... by rgbrenner · · Score: 2

      The guy isn't claiming any sort of conspiracy theory:

      He said medical evidence suggested Turing died from inhaling cyanide rather than drinking or ingesting it. He said police reported a strong smell of cyanide coming from Turing's lab, where he used it in amateur experiments.

    2. Re:Widely reported as fact ... by hey! · · Score: 5, Informative

      the funny thing is that the assessment is that he would have been harassed relatively less in the US (he could have gotten a position there after his visit in Princeton).
      Apparently being gay was not considered as suspicious as being a communist back then

      Well, the only thing you can conclude from the whole sad story is that bigots are idiots. They took away Turing's security clearance because they were afraid his sexual orientation made him vulnerable to blackmail, even though by this point he was a *known* homosexual. The biggest potential threat to national security would have been Turing going to work for a foreign power because he could no longer work in Britain.

      America was no better.In 1949 rocket scientists Qian Xuesen applied to become a naturalized US citizen, when reviewing his application noticed, "hey, this guy is Chinese!" He was imprisoned for a year and deported to China because being Chinese he was considered a security risk. He also happened to be the most brilliant young rocket scientist of his generation; so his deportation resulted in the worst possible outcome. He didn't give US rocketry secrets to China, he gave China its own rocketry *program*. Quian became the father of the Chinese ballistic missile program and later space program. He was deeply involved with education, instrumental to training the engineers and scientists who are running China's space program today.

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    3. Re:Widely reported as fact ... by Mark+Atwood · · Score: 3, Informative

      Somewhere in the bowels of the archives of the US Government is the paperwork regarding Qian Xuesen's attempt at naturalization, his enprisonment, and his deportment. On those papers will be the names and signatures of the US Government bureaucrats who decided to do this. I wonder if any of them are still alive?

      I would like to confront them with the results of their ignorant stupidity.

      Well, no, what I *actually* would like to do is throw them and their supervisors into a large bonfire...

  4. suicide with cyanide? by ggpauly · · Score: 5, Informative

    As a chemist who has worked with cyanide, I question whether he would have chosen this method to end his own life. Cyanide poisoning is extremely unpleasant and chemists who work with it generally are aware of this. Cyanide gas is very easy to produce from cyanide solutions, just a matter of adjusting or failing to adjust the pH. I have given myself low level cyanide poisoning without being aware of it until the symptoms appeared hours later, and many others have been saved by having the antidote at hand when they realized they had been exposed.

    The gas could easily have been produced in his laboratory by his own accident or neglect, or by someone else.

    In my opinion Turing's death by cyanide poisoning was not an intentional suicide.

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    Verbum caro factum est
    1. Re:suicide with cyanide? by cfalcon · · Score: 3, Informative

      Darwin awards aren't given to people whose exposure to danger is consciously undertaken, and most certainly not those for whom the risk was for the betterment of society- for instance, coal mine workers, soldiers, infectious agent researchers, and of course, scientists.

      http://www.darwinawards.com/rules/rules2.html

      Anyway, I do find myself hoping that Alan Turing's death was accidental instead of deliberate.

    2. Re:suicide with cyanide? by rubycodez · · Score: 2, Funny

      all exclusively gay men get a Darwin award; their genes will never propogate

    3. Re:suicide with cyanide? by ggpauly · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I was not aware that at the moment I was poisoned. I was certainly aware later when the symptoms appeared, although I did not immediately connect them to cyanide poisoning. I had a searing headache, muscle contractions, and lethargy, not the full range of symptoms which include convulsions, cardiac arrest, and asphyxiation perceived even when breathing. Coma will occur - this is I suppose the end result of almost any fatal poisoning. It is not clear to me when unconsciousness occurs in this process. it may be dose-dependant. It would be instructive to hear from those who have been rescued from the full throes of symptoms. The only person I personally know who rescued himself from a high dose of cyanide by immediate ingestion of antidote suffered only minor symptoms.

      Curiously, that person (who orally ingested a splash of concentrated cyanide in a plating plant) took an oral antidote that does not seem to be mentioned in the Wikipedia entry on cyanide poisoning. It may have been thiosulphate, I don't remember clearly off the top of my head. Keep your mouth closed in a plating plant. I was once obliged to prepare a sulphate solution for myself in a laboratory after accidently ingesting concentrated barium. Worst case of beer farts I ever had, no other symptoms. If you work with poisonous substances you should be prepared.

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      Verbum caro factum est
    4. Re:suicide with cyanide? by bky1701 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The Darwin Award is strictly for people whose genes never propagate in cases where that is the preferred outcome. Basically, people too stupid for their own good. I highly doubt one of the first computer scientists falls under that category.

    5. Re:suicide with cyanide? by xaxa · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I once "accidentally ingested" a liquid in a factory. A moderately pressurised line blew, and squirted the liquid in a line over my face, including my mouth.

      Fortunately, this was a food factory, and the liquid was food-grade alcohol (used as a preservative, roughly vodka strength) mixed with natural flavouring (cherry, I think). The line manager was standing opposite me, and asked me to swallow it -- had I spit it out they would have had to stop production and clean the area.

      Hopefully places with actually dangerous chemicals have better equipment, but accidents do happen.

    6. Re:suicide with cyanide? by jimbirch · · Score: 2

      It has been established that the sisters of gay men have more kids. The exact mechanism is unknown but presumably the genes that tend to make them gay tend to make their sisters more prolific mothers. They might not have kids themselves but could still have better inclusive fitness.

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      A fanatic is one who redoubles his effort when he has forgotten his aim. -- George Santayana
  5. Gay = "potential commie spy" back then... by Ellis+D.+Tripp · · Score: 4, Informative

    Back in the 1950s, anyone who was gay was considered as being vulnerable to blackmail by the "filthy reds", who could threaten to expose them unless the subject agreed to work undercover for the commies.

    They even applied this standard to the relatively few people who were OPENLY gay, even though there was no basis for exposing somebody who was already out of the closet.

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  6. Re:More than a suicide by ggpauly · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So you're suggesting that one of the greatest polymaths since Eratosthenes had the the mentality of a 5 year old girl, in part because he was gay?

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    Verbum caro factum est
  7. More likely an accident by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Please note that most seem to be construing this news as a cue to believe that Turing may have been murdered (by the British government, naturally), when in reality, Prof Jack Copeland, the foremost Turing scholar, and Turing's own mother thought it to be a careless accident rather than a suicide, with Copeland saying "the evidence should be taken at face value - that an accidental death is certainly consistent with all the currently known circumstances." The truth is that the initial inquest was so sloppy we will never know for certain, so those who are apt to believe in government conspiracies will no doubt believe he was assassinated (after he was already subject to humiliating chemical castration), even as the premier Turing expert believes it was more likely an accident.

    1. Re:More likely an accident by Artifakt · · Score: 2

      Why by the British government? They forced Turing to try a somewhat experimental treatment for a condition that wasn't really any of their business, and the worst case assumption is this caused a suicidal depression. They still were apparently thinking the treatment was for Turing's own good. Yes, people can do a lot of harm that way, but it doesn't mean they will necessarily come to hate or even murder the person. Every case where somebody misguidedly forces a person to do something for his own good is not the Spanish inquisition, torturing people to death for the good of their souls.
            If Turing was actually murdered, which as you point out, is not at all what this article indicates, how is it unreasonable that someone sympathetic to the Nazis, or even some of those Nazis who escaped to Argentina and such places, found out something about his role in WW2 and did it? One real question here is if the British government was aware of blowback issues and took enough steps to protect its former spies and intel people. If people are going to speculate here, how about directing some of the speculation that way.

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      Who is John Cabal?
  8. Way better article at BBC by l00sr · · Score: 4, Informative

    The beeb has an article that addresses the apple thing--he often ate an apple before bedtime, so the fact that a half-eaten apple was found on his night stand wasn't unusual at all, and the apple was never tested for cyanide.

  9. Re:Prepare for it to get even muddier... by Eric+S.+Smith · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "...he died a couple of years after the (grossly wrong) conviction..."

    Because if he didn't kill himself that very day, it isn't a plausible cause?

  10. Re:Prepare for it to get even muddier... by Penguinisto · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's the thing - no one knows for certain (no diary entries, notes, conversations with friends, etc) that would indicate either way, and yet it's being pushed as direct causation.

    Plausible? Maybe. Possible? Certainly. Probable? Unknown.

    OTOH, I don't like how quickly and easily correlation instantly becomes causation and gets pressed into an ideological cause... no matter who does it, or why they do it.

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    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  11. Re:Prepare for it to get even muddier... by Arancaytar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That his personal and professional life was destroyed by bigotry due to his homosexuality is well established and uncontroversial. If he did commit suicide, then the existence of a causal link is nearly inevitable. The part that hasn't been well established is whether he did, in fact, commit suicide.

    (Correlation can imply causation if there is no other viable cause and the absence of a cause is unlikely. He could have suffered a devastating mental illness that made him suicidal, but there is no evidence of this, whereas the discrimination is well documented.)