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Teaching Natural Sciences To Social Science Students?

An anonymous reader writes "As a calculus professor for a small undergraduate institution, I normally lecture students who are majoring in the natural (or 'hard') sciences, such as mathematics, physics, and computer science. In fact, I have done so for almost thirteen years. However, for the first time this fall semester, we have a shortage of professors on our hands. As a result of this, I have been asked to teach a general education statistics class. Such classes are a major requirement for the large psychology student body we have here. I have never lectured social science students in any mathematics-related classes. My question to the Slashdot community is as follows: What are your experiences with teaching natural science classes to social science students? How is the experience the same or different in comparison to natural science students who may be more adept to the nuances of mathematics and other similar fields?"

13 of 265 comments (clear)

  1. They're just like other students. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Some will be apt and mentally up to speed with whatever you through at them.

    Some will be unable to comprehend every third word.

    Some will be uninterested. Others will be interested, but incapable.

    1. Re:They're just like other students. by MagusSlurpy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have to somewhat disagree with this. In teaching my inorganic chemistry and organic chemistry students, there is a huge difference between the chem majors and the biology majors (in genchem, they are still pretty much the same, as they haven't been "indoctrinated" yet). The chem majors know that do well, they need to practice, practice, practice. The biology students are all about memorization, flash cards, that kind of thing. Most catch on by the end, but for psych students, I strongly suggest that you drill into them from the very first day that the only way they will succeed in the class is by doing practice problems every day.

      --
      My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
  2. it's comprehension, it's appreciation by holophrastic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As someone who's been on both of those academic sides (I started in hard, and moved into soft four years later), I never thought it was a lack of comprehension when fellow students have trouble with hard sciences. Instead, it's an appreciation for numerical conclusions.

    Hard sciences basically tend to conclude three steps earlier than soft sciences -- because the math ends there. Hard sciences tend to describe a scenario, detail it numerically, hypothesize a numerical result, experiment numerically, solve for x, and x=n is the answer. The issue for soft science students is really that nobody ever cared about x. Hard sciences very quickly forget where x came from, because the entire scenario was translated into numbers. This affords hard sciences a certain level of abstraction, making problems faster to solve, easier to solve, and more widely relevant to re-apply.

    Soft sciences tend to be industries where some aspect of the scenario can't be translated into numbers. It's usually a black-box scenario, and psychology is a good example. Such experiments don't attempt to describe certain behavioural anomalies numerically. Instead, 40% - 80% of a scenario is translated into numbers, leaving the remaining 20% - 60% as mysterious elements. Imagine a hard science equasion where six linear constants simply cannot be merged into a single constant -- for no seemingly good reason. As a direct result, after solving for x, the numerical abstraction must then be de-abstracted back into whatever the real-world scenario actually is. This procedure is not only an effort to grasp, but it's also a a major point of interpretation at the end of an experiment -- usually because x isn't the number of grams diluted; instead x is the likelihood that a person might turn left.

    The nice part about de-abstracting at the end is that you wind up with a real-world answer, not a mystery number.

    So my point is, that for a social science student used to walking in with a scenario, and walking out with a conclusion, you need to teach them how to appreciate the hard-science "datum result" without having a one-question-one-answer conclusion.

    You can see this same effect in the business world. Big business corporate C.E.O.'s often make decisions from numbers in, to predict numbers out, without ever knowing where the numbers came from, nor how they'll be used on the way out. But if you've seen anyone go through "board of director" training, you know that the skills wind up applying to any business anywhere because they are all done at the hard-science executive level.

    Constrast that to the entrepreneur of a small business, who needs to make all of the same decisions, but simply doesn't have the sample-size of data coming in to ever be able to make decisions numerically like the corporate guy -- which is one of the primary reasons that he has an advisory board instead of a board of directors. The decision-making process is very different, even though they are the same questions and the same answers. And each has a very difficult time in the other's business world.

    Here's hoping someone else's response details a good way to actually teach that appreciation.

  3. It is easy teaching psychology students. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Funny

    First thing to do is to get emacs and get the doctor watson mode working. Then have some sessions with Watson and understand how to talk to psychology students. To my best understanding, it involves rephrasing their questions and asking them why they ask that question or what their feeling is. All you need to do is to wing it for 50 minutes and charge them one hour of tuition fees. They will get the hang of it and learn to speak to their clients for 50 minutes and bill them for an hour.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  4. Re:Keep it simple by grcumb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Avoid using overly abstract concepts, and try to put things in terms they can understand.

    Arts major here, who's been working for about 20 years in IT. I'd offer a qualified agreement here. I found some science subjects innately easy, because I was able to visualise the forces at work. Vector equations in physics, geometry, etc. were dead easy, even when they became more advanced. But the moment the teacher began to fall back on jargon and symbolic shorthand, I'd get lost.

    The reason is pretty straightforward. I am extremely good at certain kinds of pattern-identification, but quite poor at others. Among the ones I'm poor at are mathematical equations, which are not evaluated in the same way natural languages are. It's merely a left brain/right brain thing, and I can compensate by using different approaches. I thrived under teachers who understood this, and died under teachers who spent their entire time writing equations on the board without attempting to contextualise them.

    --
    Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
  5. Re:statistics a soft science? by bleedingsamurai · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not to be rude, but reread the post.

    The OP says he normally teaches hard sciences to students with a major in a hard science meaning that they are more likely prepared for the learning of hard sciences. Because of some staffing issues the OP now must teach his hard science classes to students with a major in soft sciences, thus previous classes may not have fully prepared them for a hard science class.
    Because of this the OP is asking how to mold his teaching strategy to better target those soft science majors.

  6. It's not Special Ed by AK+Marc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You make it sound like you are teaching physics to special ed classes.

    They are as smart as everyone you've had so far. You may see some differences in their backgrounds, but that's easy enough if you make allowances to give more basics or point them to appropriate resources. I'd give an example, but I have no idea what "natural science" is to you. Geology and oceanography are natural sciences, same as physics, but they share little in common.

    One thing you may notice is that arts students in hard classes may want more "why" than "how" answers. So be prepared for more philosophical discussions, or correct, if silly, comments (i.e., the "why" for valence electrons is that the stable ones are like a comforable couch, and the unstable ones are hard benches. You want the better seat, but you don't really want to get up, and the worse the chair, the sooner you'd move) or something like that. The "why" as an expression of potential energy in MeV won't get the point across as well as a discussion of musical couches, and they'll remember it better, isn't that the goal, over the goal of the hard science students where accuracy is above all.

    1. Re:It's not Special Ed by muridae · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wanted to mod you up, but I'd rather add this: Psych students need to know statistics. Statistical analysis is 90% if their later term research; my sister spends paper writing time compiling data on people, analyzing how patterns stack up into behavior predictions. Yes, you can look at a group of people and predict what the chance is that one will have a mental illness, or who is suicidal, etc. It's not soft science, it's actuarial math. Combining individual research into meta-analysis to see how certain medications affect both groups and individuals. Seeing how changes in groups affect individual members. Even at the undergrad intern level, that was what her last two years of psychology classes were.

      My advice to the poster is simple. They aren't idiots, and they need to know how stats work. Don't start classes with intense set-theory notation unless they have that as a pre-req. Don't pull a Taylor series out to explain something if the school doesn't require a course with that as a pre-req. Use lots of people examples, instead of abstract "X is a part of set S"; and as someone else suggested gambling stats are also good. And for their sake, don't talk down to them unless you want them to fail. Or if you have tenure. These are psych students, they can manipulate the hell out of you if you seem to be annoyed with them.

      Note: if you pace from one side of the lecture hall/room to the other a lot, watch for them to drop papers and pencils when you do. Classic psych prank to get a teach to stop pacing. They can have you trained by the end of a semester if they want.

  7. I'd recomend showing how it's relevant. by Karmashock · · Score: 4, Informative

    A major problem with these sorts of courses is that they're often not taught in a way that emphasizes their utility to the student. If you're thinking about being a psychologist for example why is calculus important? I'm not saying it isn't. I can think of several different ways it could be very important especially as it regards understanding statistics.

    But you might want to create some test questions that relate to their majors.

    In business calculus they focus on it's relationship to various economic calculations. So you might want to look at drug trial statistics or anthropological/demographic statistics.

    And for the love of God... please tell them that correlation is not causation. You'd be doing everyone a huge favor. These guys are going going write stupid papers or write blogs or something similar that will pop up in the media. And everyone here at slashdot will be facepalming over another dumb paper that didn't acknowledge that simple fact.

    Just saying.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  8. Re:Here's what a business school stats prof did. by turkeyfeathers · · Score: 4, Funny

    I think that professor was me. I am from Trinidad but my parents were from Nigeria where I am living now. I would love to get back in touch and have a beer with you. If you could please send me a small advance for travel along with your SSN and a passport photo I can begin to make arrangements.

  9. Re:statistics a soft science? by stranger_to_himself · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My thoughts exactly.

    He might end up losing some of his elitist attitude before the course is over. It would be better if lost the attitude ahead of time, and approached the experience like he was at least teaching the same species.

    Indeed. I teach statistics to mathematicians, biologists, psychologists and social scientists and I would say the social scientists 'get' the principles of statistics better than the 'hard' scientists do. The main reason is that soft scientists (which is a horrible term) can think about uncertainty and its consequences, whereas hard scientists (mathematicians included) are unhappy if they don't have a yes/no answer to a question. Obviously this is a generalisation but it may inform your approach to teaching.

    Also, statistics is not 'just math'. I know this because I can do statistics but I can't do math(s) any more. :-)

  10. Re:but it would be helpul if by stranger_to_himself · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...especially as regards the use of mathematics in the interpretation of 'data' where the soft sciences have such a 'hand wavy' approach to cause and effect.

    To me, economics is a prime example. Forgive me if I'm off base in in my belief that economics is both sociological and soft(headed), but tyring to measure human behavior in the absence of an accounting for political corruption within this purely human realm and leaving the so-called black market beyond it's consideration leaves the inclusion of economics within the realm of 'science' suspect.

    I would haved greatly appreciated any attempt by a professor to explain the difference between soft science and hard science, especially if it included an math based explanation of the nuance between these different domains.

    Soft sciences are typically about trying to solve 'wicked' problems, which are those that are generally impossible to completely solve (end poverty or health inequality, understand crime, migration, or human behaviour in general etc). Hard scientists typically try to solve problems that are relatively much easier because they have a simple concrete goal (put a man on the moon, make a bomb, cure some disease)

    Soft scientists need a much stronger theoretical framework to interpret their data, because of the absence of any really testable mechanisms for the effects they observe. This can come across as 'hand wavy' but it really isn't. Your economics example isn't entirely fair, some economic models will include corruption and black markets etc and others wont, just as some physics models include relativistic effects and others don't. A good scientist has to choose the right model to approah any problem, regardless of discipline.

    I've been working in an inter-disciplinary group and have had the opportunity to see medics and economists try to work together. The two cultures are very different in their scientific approach, both consider the other to be unnecessarily picky about some aspects of the work while not being rigorous enough in others. Eg economists spend a huge amount of their time trying to prove causation in observational data, while medics will typically wave this away if they think the causal effect is likely enough. On the other hand economists tend not to contextualise their results well enough, while medics will see the bigger picture in terms of building on existing science.

  11. Re:but it would be helpul if by Skippy_kangaroo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I will try to inform you a little about economics (speaking as the holder of both a BSc and PhD in Economics):

    The key difference is that economics and social sciences are mostly non-experimental (people don't take kindly to you arbitrarily changing their parents, education, or wealth - which is the 'experimental' way of establishing cause and effect). This means that the statistical issues are orders of magnitude larger than those that exist in experimental sciences. In an experimental science you can go off and get new data where you have controlled for most everything except the effect you are interested in and a simple regression will generally be all you need. In a non-experimental science you are stuck with the data that nature has given you. As a result you need to be very careful to get meaningful results. But, in case you are doubting, you can get meaningful results if you are careful enough.

    Thus, my second point: Economics is not soft headed. In fact, it is very hard headed because you need to be when you are dealing with data that are generally speaking - crap. There are so many ways you can be mislead by non-experimental data and you need to be very hard-headed to avoid this. I won't claim mistakes haven't been made, but those mistakes are the reason economics has gotten much better at dealing with this than many people might realise. But, there is only so much you can do when the data are the way they are.

    So don't assume the difficulty of getting solid results in economics reflects the ability of the practitioners rather than the raw materials you are dealing with.