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New Mineral Found In Meteorite

Virtucon writes "The new mineral was found embedded in the Allende meteorite, which fell to Earth in 1969. Since 2007, geologist Chi Ma of Caltech has been probing the meteorite with a scanning electron microscope, discovering nine new materials including panguite. 'Panguite’s primordial nature means that it was actually around before the Earth and other planets formed, meaning it can help scientists learn more about the conditions in the cloud of gas and dust that gave rise to our solar system.'"

58 of 85 comments (clear)

  1. So did he develop super powers? by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 5, Funny

    I guess The Panguin is already taken.

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    1. Re:So did he develop super powers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      The Panguin... half man... half penguin... half pan-handler!

    2. Re:So did he develop super powers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, but he rides his horse ever more proudly as he watches the flowers fly by.

    3. Re:So did he develop super powers? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      half man... half penguin... half pan-handler!

      Three halves? Wait a minute... which one are you - Tom or Ray?

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    4. Re:So did he develop super powers? by ciderbrew · · Score: 1

      I worked with a lot of people that are 3 halves. I'm not far off. Now, do I go to the gym or have Ribs for lunch Hmm?

    5. Re:So did he develop super powers? by mcgrew · · Score: 2

      The Panguin... half man... half penguin

      Already here... don't pacemakers run Linux?

      I saw this in the firehose and RTFA (yeah, I know, so sue me). It led me to look up the new mineral on wikipedia (not much there) and the Chinese God that it was named after. Interstingly, the Chinese genesis legend is incredibly similar to the Judeo-Christian/Muslim Genesis.

      Odd how so many ancient religions world-wide from completely different and isolated parts of the world can be so similar. The Chinese legand even has counterparts in many native American religions.

      I was just a little let down by the "new mineral" though, it's very similar and related to other minerals fairly common on earth. It's a form of titanium oxide, which is used in pigments and has been for a long time.

    6. Re:So did he develop super powers? by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1

      Odd how so many ancient religions world-wide from completely different and isolated parts of the world can be so similar.

      The world wassn't so "isolated" in the old days as we usually think. Buddha statues in China and Japan were came about via the ancient Greek practice of making statues of deities. There's some evidence that the Chinese visited the Americas before Columbus. Ideas get around.

      --
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      You cannot wash away blood with blood
  2. Element Zero by Deathnerd · · Score: 2

    Totally read this hoping we'd finally discovered Element Zero. *sigh* Another time, perhaps.

  3. The 2 questions on our minds... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    1) Can we eat it? (and will it give us super powers)
    2) Will it blend?

    1. Re:The 2 questions on our minds... by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 4, Funny

      If Prometheus taught us anything, ingesting extraterrestrial materials leads to worms coming out of our eyes.

      --
      while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
  4. Bot! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Pretty sure the article was auto-generated by a buzzwordifier:

    Panguite (IMA 2010-057), (Ti4+,Sc,Al,Mg,Zr,Ca)1.8O3, is a new titania, occurring as fine-grained crystals with Ti-rich davisite in an ultra-refractory inclusion within an amoeboid olivine inclusion from the Allende CV3 carbonaceous chondrite.

    Doesn't mainstream PC tech use the least abusive field-related babble when compared to medicine and legalese?

    1. Re:Bot! by colinrichardday · · Score: 2

      Panguite is also robust, piquant and goes well with Duck L'Orange.

    2. Re:Bot! by Ruie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Pretty sure the article was auto-generated by a buzzwordifier:

      Panguite (IMA 2010-057), (Ti4+,Sc,Al,Mg,Zr,Ca)1.8O3, is a new titania, occurring as fine-grained crystals with Ti-rich davisite in an ultra-refractory inclusion within an amoeboid olivine inclusion from the Allende CV3 carbonaceous chondrite.

      Doesn't mainstream PC tech use the least abusive field-related babble when compared to medicine and legalese?

      For once we have a line of scientific discussion and you are complaining ?

    3. Re:Bot! by bickerdyke · · Score: 2

      Now THAT sounded exactly like Dr. Bunsen-Honeydew!

      --
      bickerdyke
    4. Re:Bot! by bratwiz · · Score: 1

      Buzz word. Buzz saw. Buzz kill.

    5. Re:Bot! by bratwiz · · Score: 1

      Buzz off.

    6. Re:Bot! by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Buzz Lightyear!

    7. Re:Bot! by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Pretty sure the article was auto-generated by a buzzwordifier

      I see you've never read a real research paper. You're likely to see the word "enumerate" fifteen times in a single paragraph without once seeing the word "count".

      It looks more to me like he cut and pasted from the paper.

  5. Panguite’s primordial nature by c0lo · · Score: 2

    'Panguite’s primordial nature means that it was actually around before the Earth and other planets formed, meaning it can help scientists learn more about the conditions in the cloud of gas and dust that gave rise to our solar system.'

    How can one be sure a meteorite that fell on Earth in 1969 is representative for the "gas cloud and dust that gave rise to our solar system"? I mean, can't the meteorite be originated in other start systems?

    --
    Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    1. Re:Panguite’s primordial nature by meglon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Certainly they could, however, given the distance to the closest star system from us, the travel times, the odds of hitting something as small as our planet with something even smaller from that distance, plus given the uncertainties of what actually lies between those systems and how that medium would interact with anything traveling through it, and even the unknown variable of what it would take to eject such an item from the originating system in the first place (not all systems are the same)... one would be far safer to go with the simplest answer, instead of opting for the answer that is so incredibly remotely possible.

      Just saying.... the simplest answer is usually the right one.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    2. Re:Panguite’s primordial nature by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      billions of years ago the clusters would have been closer per BBT, its still possible that sometime all those years ago rocks had more of a chance of galaxy skipping no? having said that K.I.S.S. for sure

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    3. Re:Panguite’s primordial nature by c0lo · · Score: 1

      Just saying.... the simplest answer is usually the right one.

      The the annoying thing about sayings - one can found others, equally plausible/witty, pointing towards the contrary
      Like: "There is always a well-known solution to every human problem--neat, plausible, and wrong."

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    4. Re:Panguite’s primordial nature by guruevi · · Score: 2

      Most of the stuff in our solar system, stays in our solar system - you know gravity and such. Most of the stuff in other solar systems likewise stays in their respective solar systems. I don't think there are any known objects that traverse(d) multiple solar systems. Sure, in the beginning (at the birth of our solar system, when the sun was in a cluster of stars) the matter could've all been close enough to each other to share some other solar systems' rocks but at this point in time (astronomically) the stuff in our solar system stays in our solar system.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    5. Re:Panguite’s primordial nature by meglon · · Score: 2

      Well, i was generalizing on the previous post, and it was in reference to other star systems.

      Aside from the obvious unknowables at the moment, the interactions of the interstellar medium, interactions in transition from and into the systems themselves as well as the energy needed to eject the item from the system (which is also part of the transition out), we can do some basic math to calculate travel time, if we make a few basic assumptions.

      The entry speed of a meteorite into our atmosphere is ~11-25km/sec. Using a high average of 20km.sec, and placing that as the average travel speed of the object (huge assumption), an object traveling 4x10 16th meters (no clue how to do expo here, so bear with me) which would be the rounded current distance to Alpha Centauri (give or take a couple inches i'm sure), would take over 2 trillion years to bridge the space in between (~150 times the age of the universe). Given that Alpha Centauri is getting closer to us, that distance (and travel time) would have been greater in the past.

      Now, you may have meant other systems, but you typed "galaxy skipping." Alpha Centauri is ~4.3 ly distant, the nearest galaxy is Canis Major Dwarf at ~25000 ly distance, assuming you want to include the Milky Way's satellite galaxies as such. That's going to add at least a couple more minutes to travel time.

      It all comes down to speed. There's certainly much more energetic objects out there than 20km/sec, and certainly a lot of ways to get something going much faster than that.

      Now, it's certainly possible that this object did originate inside our systems disc, it could have been some random trash floating in interstellar space that our system simply ran over and accumulated. That one will take us going out there and getting samples to see what's there though, and that's going to be a 50 year project at best... which is actually a pretty good idea for one, but that's my opinion. So while the odds are pretty dang small that it came from a system that currently exists, it may have came from a system that used to exist and happened to be in the path of our system which means that something could have been much closer to us billions of years ago (or even before the forming of our system) and simply be a bunch of rubble that we're passing through now.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    6. Re:Panguite’s primordial nature by meglon · · Score: 1

      Yes, quotes can be made to say just about anything by someone that want's a quote to be interpreted a certain way. However, i'm not entirely alone in the basic sentiment of my post: http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/scientific-experiments/occams-razor.htm

      I would also suggest that our planet accreating matter wouldn't really fit into the meaning of "human problem" in Mr Mencken's quote, who wrote about the affairs of actual living humans, not the falling of meteorites from the sky.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    7. Re:Panguite’s primordial nature by hankwang · · Score: 1

      "current distance to Alpha Centauri (give or take a couple inches i'm sure), would take over 2 trillion years to bridge the space in between"

      You made an error in your calculation. Since 20 km/s is 1/15000 of the speed of light, it would take 15000*4=60000 years to travel 4 light years, which is quite a bit less than your number.

    8. Re:Panguite’s primordial nature by bdabautcb · · Score: 1

      yes, but, wouldn't everything that made the sun have to come from something else?

      --
      Koalas. They're telepathic. Plus, they control the weather. -Margaret
    9. Re:Panguite’s primordial nature by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 3, Informative

      we can do some basic math to calculate travel time, if we make a few basic assumptions.

      The entry speed of a meteorite into our atmosphere is ~11-25km/sec. Using a high average of 20km.sec, and placing that as the average travel speed of the object (huge assumption)

      We can do some better calculations from those same numbers also.

      For instance, 11km/s relative to Earth is below solar escape speed, so a rock moving that fast did NOT come from outside the solar system (barring some really interesting interactions with multiple planets on entry to the Solar System - and we can't assume that condition existed for most (or even many) of the meteors arriving at the low end of meteor speeds).

      On the other hand, 25 km/s relative to Earth could be moving greater than solar escape speed, if it were moving more or less in the same direction Earth is at impact - if it's basically chasing Earth, then it's moving at about 31 km/s in excess of solar escape speed.

      On the other hand, if it's coming in at a larger angle relative to Earth's motion, then it may still be moving at less than solar escape speed. Coming in perpendicular to Earth's orbital motion, for instance, leaves it moving about 4 km/s BELOW solar escape speed.

      Which leave you with (assuming arbitrary of meteor orbits) less than half of all meteors coming in at the high-end of the speed range are interstellar, with an even small fraction of the slower ones being interstellar objects.

      Which leaves you with most of them being local, with no regards to travel time.

      Note, by the way, that travel time is pretty much irrelevant to the likelihood a rock came from around another star.

      Note also that your travel time estimates are off by a several orders of magnitude. You have the approximate distance in meters to Alphacent correct, but you then divide that by a speed in km/s (giving you an error of 3 orders of magnitude), then you compound that error by assuming that the result of that first division was time in YEARS instead of SECONDS (giving you an error of another seven orders of magnitude).

      The correct answer, by the by, for your numbers, is about 63000 years.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    10. Re:Panguite’s primordial nature by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      but at this point in time (astronomically) the stuff in our solar system stays in our solar system.

      Note that a comet falling in from the edge of the system can, if it passes near enough to Jupiter (but not too near) leave the vicinity of Jupiter moving at more than solar escape speed.

      In which case, it would not stay in our solar system.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    11. Re:Panguite’s primordial nature by meglon · · Score: 1

      Yeh, you and Hankwang corrected me on that one, and thanks for laying out where i went wrong. My mistake was such a big one i'll have to take time to find my calcs and go over it... once my hangover goes away (which feels like might be a couple weekends hence - advil just ain't slowing it down any).

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    12. Re:Panguite’s primordial nature by meglon · · Score: 1

      Thanks. Once i remember where i did my calcs i'll try to figure out how i screwed that one up so much. I'm pretty sure it's when i multiplied it by 8.5% a couple times too many. I'm too light a weight for alcohol anymore.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
  6. Re:Panguite by c0lo · · Score: 1

    So, much like the year of linux on the desktop, it's fleeting and goes down in flames?

    maybe... but, like linux, I hear is also hard to melt down.

    --
    Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
  7. 12 posts in by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 5, Funny

    And no adamantium references. They just don't make basement virgins like they used to.

    1. Re:12 posts in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      In defense of my basement virginity, have you ever tried typing adamantium with one hand?

    2. Re:12 posts in by antifoidulus · · Score: 2

      I think we have moved on to "unobtainium", which for many of us is about as obtainable as sex.

    3. Re:12 posts in by carpefishus · · Score: 2

      adenabtuun

      --
      Facts take all of the premium out of arm waving - T. Reynolds
    4. Re:12 posts in by jeko · · Score: 1

      Worse yet, no kryptonite references at all. Sigh. No one studies the classics any more...

      --
      He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
  8. Elerium 115 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I was personally hoping they found Elerium 115 ;)
    Maybe then we could explore the galaxy.

    1. Re:Elerium 115 by Cryacin · · Score: 4, Funny

      The Elerium 115 is right there on the shelf between the unobtainium and the pure weapons grade balonium.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    2. Re:Elerium 115 by Rollgunner · · Score: 1

      You still use Balonium? If you want to maximize your nucleonic blasts, you need to refine it into Phoni-Balonium

    3. Re:Elerium 115 by davewoods · · Score: 1

      I have like 50 tons of the stuff... I just have to find a way to un-digitize it.

  9. Re:And they know this how? by Scarred+Intellect · · Score: 1

    Through empirical observation, of course!

  10. you mean kryptonite references by circletimessquare · · Score: 3, Funny

    Now get off my basement lawn

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  11. I'm actually trying to be nice when I say this.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Yes, they _blatantly_ named it Panguite in honor of the Linux operating system... Are you retarded?

    On a side note, can anybody clean up this gibberish?

    Panguite (IMA 2010-057), (Ti4+,Sc,Al,Mg,Zr,Ca)1.8O3, is a new titania, occurring as fine-grained crystals with Ti-rich davisite in an ultra-refractory inclusion within an amoeboid olivine inclusion from the Allende CV3 carbonaceous chondrite.

    I feel like I suddenly don't understand english?

  12. Re:And they know this how? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    From the Wikipedia (I'd never taint my honor by RTFA):

    "Panguite is in a class of refractory minerals that formed under the high temperatures and extremely varied pressures present in the early solar system, up to 4.5 billion years ago. This makes panguite one of the oldest minerals in the solar system. Zirconium is a key element in determining conditions prior to and during the solar system’s formation."

    I'm no chemist, but from that it seems they know when it was formed because of the temperature/pressure required to join the elements together (now how they know how things were back then I don't know). But yeah, it's a pain when so-called journalists write but don't communicate much of anything.

  13. Andromeda Strain by rossdee · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Panguite (IMA 2010-057), (Ti4+,Sc,Al,Mg,Zr,Ca)1.8O3, is a new titania, occurring as fine-grained crystals with Ti-rich davisite in an ultra-refractory inclusion within an amoeboid olivine inclusion from the Allende CV3 carbonaceous chondrite."

    amoeboid?

    Uh-oh
    Better call in Dr Jeremy Stone and the Wildfire team

  14. Re:And they know this how? by Fred+Ferrigno · · Score: 3, Informative

    And now you know:

    We have studied Pb-isotope systematics of chondrules from the oxidized CV3 carbonaceous chondrite Allende. The chondrules contain variably radiogenic Pb with a (206)Pb/(204)Pb ratio between 19.5–268. Pb-Pb isochron regression for eight most radiogenic analyses yielded the date of 4566.2 ± 2.5 Ma. Internal residue-leachate isochrons for eight chondrule fractions yielded consistent dates with a weighted average of 4566.6 ± 1.0 Ma, our best estimate for an average age of Allende chondrule formation.

  15. Re:I'm actually trying to be nice when I say this. by aiht · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, they _blatantly_ named it Panguite in honor of the Linux operating system... Are you retarded?

    On a side note, can anybody clean up this gibberish?

    Panguite (IMA 2010-057), (Ti4+,Sc,Al,Mg,Zr,Ca)1.8O3, is a new titania, occurring as fine-grained crystals with Ti-rich davisite in an ultra-refractory inclusion within an amoeboid olivine inclusion from the Allende CV3 carbonaceous chondrite.

    I feel like I suddenly don't understand english?

    I am not a geologist, but...
    Panguite [discovery ID?], [chemical composition etc.], is a new [titanium mineral] occurring as fine-grained crystals with [titanium]-rich [other mineral also discovered in the same meteorite] in a [high melting-point] [section] within an [irregularly shaped] [other mineral] [section] from the [meteorite].

    Does anybody who actually knows what they're talking about want to chime in?

    And, for people who still had trouble with the above:
    Panguite is a new [mineral], occurring [with other minerals] [in a meteorite]. :P

  16. Headline misleading by CanEHdian · · Score: 2
    The headline is terribly misleading;

    Panguite’s primordial nature means that it was actually around before the Earth and other planets formed

    It's actually a very old mineral that has been found.

    --
    When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
  17. Re:I'm actually trying to be nice when I say this. by polymeris · · Score: 3, Informative

    Panguite (IMA 2010-057), (Ti4+,Sc,Al,Mg,Zr,Ca)1.8O3, is a new titania, occurring as fine-grained crystals with Ti-rich davisite in an ultra-refractory inclusion within an amoeboid olivine inclusion from the Allende CV3 carbonaceous chondrite.

    A titanium-bearing mineral has been accepted into the International Mineralogical Asoc.'s catalgoue. Chondrites are a class of meteorites, the important part being that they are supposed to have formed as such and were not part of a larger body. (No evidence of impact or melting).
    Some carbonaceous meteorites have large (several mm diameter) grains of material which were formed in vacuum, in particular those of the CV subtype. This particular meteorite's chrondrules (that's what those grains are called) contain refractory (i.e. heat-resistant) material in the amoeboid (rounded, irregular shape) olvine inclusions. Olivine is a basic ( = low silica content) mineral series common in celestial bodies (also the inner earth) and very suceptible to weathering, that is, exposure to water. Altered olivine has been found in fragments of meteorites from mars, which is the reason it is believed that there once was a water on that planet. But that's another story.

  18. Re:6 in just 1 little rock? by JustOK · · Score: 1

    Imagine what you can find out from 30 Rock.

    --
    rewriting history since 2109
  19. Re:I'm actually trying to be nice when I say this. by azalin · · Score: 1

    I'd say this sums it up rather nicely.

  20. Re:Bot! - not by sensei+moreh · · Score: 1

    No buzzwordifiers were used to create that statement. It's actually quite straight-forward and descriptive. What surprises me is that new minerals are still being discovered in the Allende meteroite, given how much its been studied over the last 40+ years.

    --
    Geology - it's not rocket science; it's rock science
  21. Re:I'm actually trying to be nice when I say this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    You got most of it.

    IMA is the International Mineralogical Association, which certifies any new mineral claims and places them in an official catalog by that number. "Amoeboid" just means mineral grains "shaped like an amoeba", i.e. kind of "blobby" with lots of projections and embayments. This is pretty typical for olivine from this particular meteorite type (carbonaceous chondrite) and the particular fall, Allende (named after the place where it fell in Mexico -- this happens to be a particularly famous and well-studied fall, if not *the* most famous one. Hell, even *I* have a piece of this meteorite because there is so much of it. It's one of the cheaper ones to buy). "CV3" refers to the exact meteorite classification.

    Olivine is a common iron-magnesium silicate mineral on the Earth, well known for forming the Earth's upper mantle, but perhaps better known as the gemstone peridot. As the "olive" name suggests, it is often greenish in colour (yellow-green is typical). The new mineral is found as an inclusion (i.e. inside) the olivine grains, and these inclusions are also amoeboid in shape. So, tiny blobs of Ti-rich minerals inside bigger, blobby-shaped olivine crystals. The new mineral is mixed as tiny (i.e. "fine-grained") crystals within davisite, a previously-known Ti-bearing mineral that also is common on Earth (and davisite compositions vary, so they mention that this is the Ti-rich version of it). The "ultra-refractory" part refers to the fact that the minerals involved in the inclusions have very high melting/vapourization temperatures (typical for Ti minerals), implying that if they solidified/condensed in the solar nebula, they were probably formed very early in the process as the stuff was cooling down, before the formation of the olivine grains that surround them. As such they may preserve the early history of this material as it started clumping together to form what eventually became a large meteorite chunk.

    Carbonaceous chondrites are special among meteorites because they preserve an early stage of the clumping together and differentiation of solar system material -- they didn't get big enough to melt most of their material and separate the denser metals into the core versus the crust and mantle, like happened on the Earth and all the other large planetary bodies and moons. They were "frozen" in a relatively unaltered state compared to larger bodies. It's kind of like you have all the ingredients for a nice cake (planet), but they got shoved into the freezer and left for a few billion years instead of getting cooked in the oven.

    Okay, okay, I'll try a car analogy. It's like you have the iron ore, aluminum ore, oil, sand, and all the other raw materials that go into manufacturing a car, but they haven't been processed yet. If you want to know how to build a car "from scratch", this could be useful material to compare to the finished product (the car being analogous to a planet in this case).

  22. No superhero transformation? by sproketboy · · Score: 1

    And none of these new minerals have changed Chi Ma into a super hero yet? How disappointing.

  23. The only thing more remote is by alfredo · · Score: 1

    his chances of scoring with Mila Kunis.

    --
    photosMy Photostream
  24. Re:Ridiculous? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    How could they possibly know that?

    The comment right above yours explains it. Stop trying for fisrt post and actually do a little reading and you might actually learn something.

    Unfortunately, none of them were so blatantly named after Linux as the one in this story.

    *sigh*... you kids hate reading, don't you? It's not named after Linux, it's named for the ancient Chinese god Pan Gu, the creator of the world through the separation of yin (earth) from yang (sky). And it doesn't even sound like "penguin", do you have dyslexia or something?

    I know some folks think it's against the rules, but next time read the fucking article and stop wasting our time with worthless comments.

  25. Re:I'm actually trying to be nice when I say this. by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 1

    The above is a good example of why technical language gets used. Anyone skilled in minerology understood the two-line version. Laypeople need the 3-4 paragraph version. Technical language is far more information dense than basic language.

    --
    Not a sentence!