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Insights Into Google Compute Engine

snydeq writes "The Compute Engine announcement at Google I/O made it clear that Google intends to take Amazon EC2 head on. Michael Crandell, who has been testing out Compute Engine for some time now, divulges deeper insights into the nascent IaaS, which, although enticing, will have a long road ahead of it in eclipsing Amazon EC2. 'Even in this early stage, three major factors about Google Cloud stood out for Crandell. First was the way Google leveraged the use of its own private network to make its cloud resources uniformly accessible across the globe. ... Another key difference was boot times, which are both fast and consistent in Google's cloud. ... Third is encryption. Google offers at-rest encryption for all storage, whether it's local or attached over a network. 'Everything's automatically encrypted,' says Crandell, 'and it's encrypted outside the processing of the VM so there's no degradation of performance to get that feature.'"

29 of 80 comments (clear)

  1. The real question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How long until Google cancels it?

    1. Re:The real question by EdIII · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How long until Google cancels it?

      Not exactly trolling. Google has never done very well in the support and consistency department. Having to deal with the YouTube API has given me some insights into just what a PITA it is to deal with Google on an ongoing basis.

      Google has never really been shy about pulling the plug on a project either. Which is what almost everything seems to be to them. At some point you have to let a project die, so I can't really blame them for being conservative with resources, but it does not help the people that started to rely on it.

      All that being said though, I think it is a pretty good assumption this will be a paid offering, and as such will not have the plug pulled. Certainly, not before migration plans could be made.

  2. Encryption detail? by prestwich · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's interesting them doing at-rest-encryption - now I wonder where the keys are stored and who has access to them?

    1. Re:Encryption detail? by davester666 · · Score: 2, Funny

      No keys, they use ROT-52 for extra security while still enabling excellent throughput.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    2. Re:Encryption detail? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Little known fact: ROT-52 encrypted data is susceptible to both chosen plaintext attacks and decryption with the weaker ROT-26 standard.

    3. Re:Encryption detail? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's why you should use several iterations of it. ROT-52 may be simple, but 16ROT-52 takes 16 times as long to decrypt.

    4. Re:Encryption detail? by Animats · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's interesting them doing at-rest-encryption - now I wonder where the keys are stored and who has access to them?

      That is exactly the right question. If the encrypted data is worked on in the "cloud", the encryption keys have to be accessible to Google's servers. It's possible to have a remote backup service where the service doesn't have the keys. (iDrive claims to be such a service.) But if the data is processed in the "cloud", the keys are in there somewhere.

    5. Re:Encryption detail? by PTBarnum · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I haven't seen any technical details yet, but I'd guess that the advantages of encryption would be (1) fewer people at Google will have access to the keys than to the data (2) an outside attacker who gets access to the raw data also needs to attack the key store (3) if by malice or mistake a disk is not properly wiped before being removed from the data center, it will be harder to get data off of it.

      It's hard to see this as being worse than no encryption; even if it is easier to get the key than to get the encrypted data, you still need both to do anything with the data.

    6. Re:Encryption detail? by dolmant_php · · Score: 4, Informative

      I attended the tech details IO session (https://developers.google.com/events/io/sessions/gooio2012/313/ - as of this writing, the video isn't up yet), and they said the encryption keys don't leave the server where the data resides.

    7. Re:Encryption detail? by gl4ss · · Score: 3, Interesting

      well.. so? they're on the server the data resides on all the same. wouldn't it be nicer if they weren't on that server, since if they're on the same server what's the fucking point??

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    8. Re:Encryption detail? by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 2

      That's why they don't use it, they shave Brin's head, tattoo the data into his scalp, and then when they need to retrieve it they shave him again and read it off. This way not even Brin can read it, because he'd need a mirror and it would all be reversed.

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    9. Re:Encryption detail? by MikeHalcrow · · Score: 5, Informative

      I designed and implemented the disk encryption component of Google Compute Engine. (Trivia: I also created eCryptfs, which backs the home directory encryption in Ubuntu and provides local cache encryption in Chrome OS). PTBarnum outlined some good motivators for why cloud providers should encrypt all data-at-rest, even though they (necessarily) manage the key material. Additionally, it turns out that some customers' regulatory requirements can be met by encrypting all data as it crosses the guest-host VM boundary on its way to storage.

    10. Re:Encryption detail? by MikeHalcrow · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's interesting them doing at-rest-encryption - now I wonder where the keys are stored and who has access to them?

      The Google Compute Engine FAQ sheds some light on these details: https://developers.google.com/compute/docs/faq#disks

      Can I retrieve ephemeral disk data if I have lost it?

      No. All data written to ephemeral disk is encrypted with a key that is unique to the VM instance. By design, once a virtual machine terminates, all data on the ephemeral disk is lost.

    11. Re:Encryption detail? by joebeda3 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm the TL for Google Compute Engine and was the speaker at that talk. The answer is a little more subtle than that. We have two types of mountable disk -- ephemeral disk which stays on the physical machine and never leaves the machine and persistent disk that outlives an instance is written over the network.

      For ephemeral disk, we generate the encryption key on the host machine and it only ever stays in memory. We are careful to control the code paths that see the key material.

      For the persistent disk, by necessity, we need to manage the key as part of our overall virtual machine management infrastructure. We utilize some strongly audited and auditable systems to wrap the encryption keys and really lock down the users that have access to the unwrapping service. The name of the game here is to restrict the scope as much as possible.

      BTW -- the video for the talk isn't up yet but I just shared the slides here: https://plus.google.com/110707185519531431463/posts/EfDCBjuPiPf.

    12. Re:Encryption detail? by uncqual · · Score: 5, Informative

      (iDrive claims to be such a service.)

      I tend to take claims iDrive makes with a grain of salt given their approach to "security" on the client machine. If, on a Windows iDrive installation, one looks at (for a typical installation) C:\Program Files\IDrive\UserName.ini, one finds a line of the form:

      Encryption password=Vjku_Ku_Oa_Rcuuyqtf_CCCDDDEEE

      Of course, not to worry, the password is well encrypted with a sophisticated algorithm. Yes. ROT-2 for alpha characters. Really.

      So, this user's actual encryption password is: This_Is_My_Password_AAABBBCCC

      I understand that some people want the convenience of not having to enter their encryption password (or, even, a password vault password) when using the service or at system boot or user logon, but there seems to be no way to 'opt out' of this convenience.

      I assume the engineers at iDrive used ROT-2 as a joke instead of putting the encryption password in clear text. I'm not a humorless guy, but there's a few areas that I don't like joking about -- and security is one of them. Unfortunately, this unfunny joke decreases security because it slightly increases the chances that some users won't realize that their encryption password is sitting in (almost) cleartext on their local disk and they won't protect it well (most users, of course, would have no idea this file even exists).

      Since iDrive seems to think that security is something to be "funny" and "cute" about, I question their general judgement on the topic. (Of course, it's possible that they are incompetent and don't do security reviews -- I suppose that's worse).

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
  3. Google LAN by roman_mir · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I found this to be an interesting piece of info

    Even in this early stage, three major factors about Google Cloud stood out for Crandell. First was the way Google leveraged the use of its own private network to make its cloud resources uniformly accessible across the globe.

    "When you create a Google Compute Engine account and use their resources," he said, "they provide a private network, a LAN of sorts that spans different regions. For example, if you set up an architecture to replicate a database from region A to region B, in the Google cloud, you don't need to traverse the public Internet to do it. You're using their private network."

    How precisely that network is implemented (as its own private fiber or simply a very efficiently-routed VPN) is not disclosed by Google. But the key thing is that the whole structure is seen as a single network from a programming point of view. "This makes it easier if you're building cross-regional architectures," Crandall says. It's expected that Google will eventually expand Compute Engine to territories outside the United States.

    - I really wonder if Google built (or bought) larges swaths of private infrastructure that is otherwise outside of the Internet, does anybody know?

    Here is why I am wondering about it - Google as an ISP would then avoid outside costs to move its data, it's all internal costs, this turns Google into its own 'Internet' of sorts, Google only Internet.

    That's why web neutrality is a nonsense concept from my perspective - if companies can build their own infrastructure, they can compete with each other and offer their own content at better speeds, but then Google could be an ISP that uses both, Google 'Internet' and external backend, but then on its own 'Internet', the content available from Google could be delivered at a higher priority and faster (and cheaper, because its internal costs, that can be managed easier).

    By the way, there was a question in the story, asking why didn't Google provide this earlier. Well, maybe it tech wasn't ready or the business model wasn't there or maybe it's something to do with the government that wants to listen in on everything.

    BTW., this is why such information should be made available, the speculation about the reasons for things like that could be worse than whatever the truth is.

    1. Re:Google LAN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Google's been buying dark fibers since at least 2005. So, they likely do have the capacity to do this in a lot of areas.

    2. Re:Google LAN by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's why web neutrality is a nonsense concept from my perspective - if companies can build their own infrastructure

      The problem is that it's really only a handful of Google-sized companies who can do so. The worry with net neutrality is that the traditional ability of smaller players to participate will be eroded, if you can no longer buy access to the internet as a leaf node via an ISP, and then have your traffic treated equally once you're on the network.

  4. Yes, they do own massive fiber by sirwired · · Score: 4, Informative

    Google, in a very forward-thinking move, outright purchased massive quantities of laid fiber at rock-bottom prices after the telecom crash that followed the dot-com crash. There was quite a glut of capacity that nobody needed at the time and had no use for. They picked up years and years worth of bandwidth expansion without having to go through all the trouble and expense of actually laying that fiber.

  5. Re:Uh by ibsteve2u · · Score: 4, Informative

    Yeah, Amazon does...and they'll let you download the "howto" for their cloud as free ebooks, too.

    --
    Orwell: "In a Time of Universal Deceit, telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act"
  6. how about I/O performance by Trepidity · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Speaking of "Google I/O", how is the I/O performance on Google's offering? Is it any better than the, err, "not great" performance of Amazon's EBS?

    1. Re:how about I/O performance by MikeHalcrow · · Score: 3, Informative

      but again, it would be performance with the data encryption, compared to non-encrypting EBS.

      This is what RightScale, an early Google Compute Engine customer, had to say regarding encryption and performance: http://blog.rightscale.com/2012/06/28/rightscale-joins-google-compute-engine-for-launch-day/

      One very aggressive innovation that Google Compute Engine brings to cloud computing is encryption of data at rest, both for local ephemeral drives as well as for network attached drives. In the case of the network attached disks the encryption happens on the host before it is put on the network, so it’s also encrypted in transit. The encryption is on a per-project basis (Google’s term for an account). This is a big deal for security conscious organizations, especially those having regulatory or other mandates to encrypt all data at rest. On other clouds one solution is to run a loop-back crypto driver, but that eats into the VM’s performance. I’ve been benchmarking the Google Compute Engine disk performance (more on that in a future post) and the encryption doesn’t seem to have a noticeable impact on performance. Pretty awesome.

  7. I sure hope businesses and people are smarter/ by santax · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When you use an US-based company to trust your data too, you are a fool. That data will become property of the US and they don't even have to tell you they copied it for reasons of terrorism-fighting (or on a much larger scale, economic espionage!). No one in their right might should ever use any system in the USA or belonging to USA companies to put sensitive or mission critical data on. It's the equivalent of riding the damn trojan horse into your own city and thanking them for the great gift.

    1. Re:I sure hope businesses and people are smarter/ by dkf · · Score: 2

      When you use an US-based company to trust your data too, you are a fool.

      More to the point, they don't have any non-US zones, nor do they mention any plans at all to change this. OK, such a rollout is not trivial since it can't just be done by freeing up server space; they probably have to alter their corporate structure as well so as to limit the amount to which the non-US operations arms can be pressured by the US government via the parent. If you've got a legal requirement to keep your data out of the US, GCE is not for you. Amazon have had this addressed for years.

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
  8. Who is the troll? by nurb432 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Google has a clear track record of yanking the rug out from under people who adopt their non-core products.

    Unfortunately it's a valid concern.

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    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Who is the troll? by icebike · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, its not a valid concern.

      Google shuts down projects that have no clear path to making money, like Wave, Buzz and Others.

      As far as I know none of these had any monitization mechanism other than pushing ads in your face.

      Compute has a price schedule published right up front, and its about the twice the cost of the electricity to power a comparable computer, but with zero capital investment. Their data storage prices and bandwidth prices are also published, and are reasonable. You really couldn't afford to even put your legacy machines into production at these prices.

      Clearly they expect this project to cover its own costs, and make use of excess capacity in their data centers.

      Google can build a processor in house cheaper than Dell or any white-box company. With a gazillion of them on hand, they can provision them fast, swap them in when there is trouble, and they do it day in and day out. So chances are they are simply reselling the in house expertise they already have. None of this is going away any time soon, and they always need to maintain excess capacity for their own needs, so why not market that.

      With a clear path to making money on this project baked in at the start, the only thing that would kill it is lack of customers. Hell I'm thinking of renting a couple cores just for playing around with.

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    2. Re:Who is the troll? by icebike · · Score: 2

      there's no guarantee they'll make a profit (otherwise Google App Engine would be expanding),

      Wait, they just introduced this last week, and you already know that its NOT expanding? Clairvoyance?

      The pricing is not all that dissimilar than EC2. Its less, but not orders of magnitude less.
      This is not the sort of thing that requires a huge customer base up front. They have the luxury of throwing a few hundred virtual cores at this, or maybe a million. They have the hardware sitting around. Sunk costs already spent. If it turns out to be as self managing as most of Google's system, it will require a few administrative employees to collect the money, provision the virtual machines, and a few techs to deal with problems. But I suspect they have been running this in-house for years.

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      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  9. Re:Encryption by icebraining · · Score: 2

    That would only be useful if they couldn't get to the key as well, which (apparently) isn't the case here - it sits on the same machine.

  10. Re:Not cost competative by icebraining · · Score: 2

    But if your service only needs a 4 core for 95% of the time, but it gets huge spikes those other 5%, you'd be wasting a ton of money keeping an 8-core twiddling its thumbs, while on EC2 you can scale just during those spikes, particularly if they're regular.

    That's the whole point of "X-as-a-service" - getting resources on demand.

    Of course if you can, putting the baseload on real server and using IaaS to handle spikes is probably the cheapest option, but it's far from easy unless your application is really simple.