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Google Proposes Fighting Piracy By Blocking Ad Money

judgecorp writes "Google has published a report, written by the Performing Rights Society and BAE Detica, which says the way to fight piracy is not to chase the sharers, but to cut off the money in the system. 'Some 86% of advertising on the pirate sites surveyed by Detica comes from networks that have failed to sign up with the UK’s self-regulatory bodies or commit to strong codes of conduct. More than two thirds of the sites that rely on subscriptions or payments display well-known credit card logos. Online advertisers should be encouraged to sign up to self-regulatory codes of conduct. Credit card and online payment facilities, the pirate’s oxygen supply, must be blocked.'But is Google absolutely sure it isn't doing that with AdSense?"

10 of 202 comments (clear)

  1. Dunno, might help but not solve problem by jmorris42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Cutting off the pirates' oxygen supply will help with the bigger outlaw commercial operators. But it won't faze ThePirateBay in the least. Until somebody can come up with a solution to that one, the problem isn't likely to get solved. Longer term though, the bandwidth caps are going to do more to curb the problem on the Internet than anything law enforcement could ever do.

    Eventually we will rediscover the bandwidth of sneakernet. Not much to be done about that one. And it gets worse.

    Ponder this one 'content industry'... How much storage would it take to store every popular song? How easy is it to pass that around? All somebody needs to add is a P2P phone app that works over WiFi to continually sync new songs in as people socialize. Poisoning might be a problem but hashes can resist that. Somebody really serious about peeing in the industry's corn flake could solve the problems and post 'an app for that.' We are getting close to carrying around enough storage so that every kid could just expect to have 'everything' ever released on a major label sitting in their mobile device. Just a few more turns of Moore's Law. How much longer until the same thing happens with TV & movies? Forget the cloud and monthly fees or paying by the minute, just have every movie or tv show ever made riding around on every phone.

    --
    Democrat delenda est
    1. Re:Dunno, might help but not solve problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But it won't faze ThePirateBay in the least. Until somebody can come up with a solution to that one,

      I wasn't aware ThePirateBay was a "problem"?

    2. Re:Dunno, might help but not solve problem by Charliemopps · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You don't seem to remember much from history... The first "Big dog" in piracy was Napster, and they flourished at a time when the vast majority of the public had 56k connections at best. More often than not even slower speeds. All bandwidth caps do is drive consumers to lower quality encoding. The major media outlets probably don't realize it, but this hurts them the most. Despite the fact that they think "pirates" are some parasitic new species that in now way puts money into their system it's quite the opposite. Some of their biggest customers are pirates. The fact of the matter is, they can't get what they want. Which is any movie/show they want at any time, in decent quality at a reasonable price. The media industry seems to think that $300+ per month is a reasonable price for a cable/satellite connection that has "all" the channels, is choked with ever increasing commercials and isn't even on-demand. Add to that, the fact that your forced to scroll through hundreds of channels that you don't want, due to horrible packages forced on the cable providers by content producers.

      Piracy is driven, solely, by the media industry that's complaining about it. They could end it tomorrow if they wanted to. But they have this rediculous pipe dream that the internet will lead to them cutting costs by not having to produce physical copies of their media any longer, but at the same time they can raise the price of that very same media. Sorry, that's not going to happen guys. It's 2012, time to get a clue.

    3. Re:Dunno, might help but not solve problem by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 4, Informative

      >>>industry seems to think that $300+ per month is a reasonable price for a cable/satellite connection that has "all" the channels

      Aren't you exaggerating a bit? Comcast charges around $100 and Dish just $50 for hundreds of digital channels.

      No, he's not.

      Shaw cable up here in Canada encrypts their channels. It's $150 a month plus equipment rental, which is required by the service and flaky as fuck to boot. If you want to get decent HD selection (let's go out on a limb and say HBO HD), you're looking at at least $225 with taxes.

      The fact is, it's cheaper, easier, and more reliable for me to just rent my entertainment. Nothing down, nothing a month.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    4. Re:Dunno, might help but not solve problem by camperslo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I wasn't aware ThePirateBay was a "problem"?

      We really should have this conversation about something else that is a far more serious problem that could be fought in a similar way. We should ban paid political media ads to cut the cash flow chain of political corruption.

      Many serious problems in the world, including the financial crisis, can be traced back to crony capitalism, where money taken in through campaigns or funneled directly to media during campaigns buys influence leading to regulatory changes that are contrary to the public interest. Additionally, misleading ads also distort public perception. An informed public is crucial to the proper functioning of democracy.

      Attempts at controlling fund raising have been a dismal failure. What's needed is similar to the what the story here suggests. Ban PAID political advertising in the media, and bring back local media ownership. Controlling what online would be more difficult, but that is needed too. The changes could be done at the FCC level and not involve campaign laws. Media owners would be subject to fairness rules governing informative public service time that the GIVE away.

    5. Re:Dunno, might help but not solve problem by six025 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do we? Where do you take your data from?

      Personal experience from both sides of the debate - as a former warez user who paid lip service to "Try Before Buy", but now works with an ISV (Independent Software Vendor, if you don't know what it means ...).

      The research financed by the big labels? Maybe the same research that generated this

      No. These mega-corporations are lying to us, that's obvious.

      Working for an ISV helped me realise that downloading and using software from small indie developers without paying for it benefits no one but myself. It certainly doesn't benefit the indie developer in any way!

      Nothing sinister. No **AA involved. Just honest, hard working developers with a passion for building products that help people get things done. In the case of these ISV's there generally isn't the luxury of running an international cartel dedicated to screwing over the rights of artists and consumers. We know that piracy hurts our business - at least to a certain extent - but that seems to be lost on people who consider anyone with a website and products to sell to be in the same league as $$MEGA_CORPORATION$$.

      Peace,
      Andy.

    6. Re:Dunno, might help but not solve problem by Kjella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sorry, you can't fool us into believing that the problem is some imaginary $300 / month subscription fee - we know that pirates are the problem.

      The false dichotomy here is thinking only one of them can be the problem. Clearly they have a problem with people whose sole reason for piracy is to save money, whether it's cheapskates who pirate when they can and buy when they must or freeloaders who wouldn't pay anyway, but demoralizes the paying customers - why should they pay when the freeloaders don't. Because of that they're implementing copying restrictions and DRM systems and region codes, annoying unskippable warnings which is also abused for trailers and commercials, pushing for mass surveillance, three/six strike laws that lack judicial oversight and mass shakedowns that are economically impossible to defend against, carry excessive penalties (thousands of dollars for one 99 cent song) and so on.

      That pisses a lot of other people off, people who like to run a media server like me. People that run Linux like I did, not anymore but that's a different story. People that have a laptop with no optical drive which they feel they should be able to watch it on. People that feel once they have bought it, they should be able to convert it to watch on their phone or tablet. People that don't like them poking their noses in all private communication. People that don't like kangaroo courts. People that are afraid they'll get a thousands of dollar lawsuit because their wifi was open or their machine was hacked or their tenants or relatives was on P2P. On top of that particularly the TV and movie industry cling to an outdated business model which makes the pirate service far more convenient.

      You have a problem with pirates? Well, the feeling is mutual because I have a problem with you because I would like to pay but there's nothing worth paying for. You've made your content so locked up and difficult to access and use as I want that the pirates win without a fight. The service I want you're not willing to offer to me for any price. Your current efforts are futile and the totalitarian society you'd have to build to stomp out piracy is not one I'd care to live in. As far as I'm concerned you're a hindrance to my enjoyment and a menace to society and the best way of neutralizing you would be to take your copyright away. If people want you to continue creating, they'll pay. If not then find some other work. It's not the perfect solution but getting rid of copyright is the lesser evil, you're the greater.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  2. Re:Blocking credit card & online payments by nblender · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Except they won't let you buy what you want. Back in the 70's there was a popular TV show that I enjoyed watching when I was a kid. Go ahead, try to find a DVD set of "WKRP in Cincinnatti"... My wife's cousin came over and lamented how she could only find the 1st season on DVD but the music wasn't what was in the original show... I relayed that I had also been hoping to buy the DVD set... So I went to TPB and downloaded the full series with original music.

    WKRP is credited for popularizing many songs back then and helping artists rise to fame. However, the reason there are no DVD sets of WKRP is allegedly because of the difficulty in licensing the music from the content providers. When WKRP shows are aired in re-runs, they are aired with crappy sound-alike music... In many episodes, the songs are contextual so part of the plot is ruined when they removed the music.

    As the cherry topping, I introduced my 10yo son to WKRP and he devoured all of the episodes, watching some of them twice and three times; with original music... He enjoys the music and has been buying it from iTunes...

  3. Also: Fighting Unpopular Opinions by _KiTA_ · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This also works with unpopular opinions and content.

    Case in point, Recently SomethingAwful's harassment of the TVTropes website reached a head when they started attacking TVTropes by complaining to Google about Trope pages that had odd content. The example was "Naughty Tentacles" which was the cliche of tentacles in anime tending towards being somewhat risque even in non-risque works. Google pulled all advertisements from their site until this page was removed and cut all their advertising money.

    The catch being that Naughty Tentacles and other "Not Safe For Google" pages were not serving Google Ads, which means that Google is now claiming that if you have an Ad Sense ad on a SINGLE page then Google has editorial rights on ALL pages on your site.

    That sick feeling in your stomach is normal, it merely means you are wise enough to realize what a huge disaster this could possibly be.

    (Not to say that TVTropes handled it well themselves. The administrator had a very public nervous breakdown over the whole thing, began harassing anyone who posted Japanese media tropes, tried to argue that Romeo and Juliet was child pornography because R&J are both 14, etc etc... Many people, including myself, were publicly banned and our names dragged through the mud because we disagreed with his "great porno purge" on what was supposedly a collaborative website.)

    Another recent example of something similar was when the concern troll at L7World began harassing websites that hosted "Kodmo No Jikan", a very risque Japanese manga involving a precocious child abuse victim and the male teacher who is the subject of her torment (and who is attempting to save her from her abusive stepfather). While the content is... as close to pornographic as possible without actually reaching that point, the fact of the matter is the L7World troll used as many "fainting couch" attacks he could, including photoshopping things out of context and directly attacking the Advertisers that went through Google, to harass every manga hosting website he could. (He then later admitted he likes KnJ, reads it, and was just fucking with as many people as he could because he could get away with it.)

    Several months later, a similar attack was done by someone claiming that all Manga hosting websites had to remove not only any works with underage characters -- but also any manga works that had Gay or Lesbian themed content, because the "web is a product of the United States, a Christian Nation, and thus they had a duty to uphold Christian morals". When this troll was ignored and banned for these frothy rants, suddenly Google was getting all kinds of complaints out of the blue about these sites and pulled their advertisement money.

    This attack destroyed OneManga, severely hurt every other manga site, et cetera. Even sites that do not host manga, and are simply series database sites, such as BakaUpdates, were affected. So don't think that you're only in danger if you host Troll-Unapproved content, if you talk about things that trolls don't like, they can go through Google to attack your site now.

    And before anyone takes umbrage with the "underage characters" part, I would point out that the most popular children's comic in the world, Doraemon, as well as The SImpsons technically fall under the same overreaching umbrella of what this troll was complaining about, and are not pornographic by any sense of the word.

    tl;dr: In short, I find it very unsettling that Google is openly bragging about the possibility that legal trolls such as the MPAA could now use attacks that Religious fundamentalist trolls (and, in the case of SA, just plain normal trolls) have used to silence websites that they do not agree with.

  4. Re:Also: Fighting Unpopular Opinions by Dartz-IRL · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If I had mod-points right now, I'd upvote this. But I don't.

    Oh well. You beat me to the punch by mentioning the TvTropes incident. And yes, that is bloody terrifying. Though really, advertising hitting publishers with the money stick to impose their editorial will is nothing new orbiting the sun.

    That doesn't mean I have to like it.

    The worrying thing is, many of these withdrawals are pretty much automated. Google has an almost machine-like bureaucratic apathy to the advertising world, it's systems grinding mindlessly along uncaring how automated reports are. It'll yank them anyway because it doesn't cost them anything to do so. It's the cheapest and easiest option. It's expensive to actually follow up the report and investigate the actual circumstances.

    That requires a salaried employee with a brain.

    Or in short form. I agree with everything you said, and just wanted to try post more than 'I agree with everything you said'

    --
    So there I was, scribbling down some notes off the PC screen by hand, when I reached for the keyboard and Ctrl-S'd.