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Nukes Are "The Only Peacekeeping Weapons the World Has Ever Known," Says Waltz

An anonymous reader writes "Famed academic Kenneth Waltz for years has argued that more nukes around the world create peace. Why? Because the more nukes are around, the more people are afraid to start a war with a nuclear-armed state. Peace seems assured with a gun to the world's head. In a recent interview, he argues that Iran gaining nuclear weapons would be a good thing. He points out that 'President Obama and a number of others have advocated the abolition of nuclear weapons and many have accepted this as both a desirable and a realistic goal. Even entertaining the goal and contemplating the end seems rather strange. On one hand the world has known war since time immemorial, right through August 1945. Since then, there have been no wars among the major states of the world. War has been relegated to peripheral states (and, of course, wars within them). Nuclear weapons are the only peacekeeping weapons that the world has ever known. It would be strange for me to advocate for their abolition, as they have made wars all but impossible.'"

12 of 707 comments (clear)

  1. Inevitably... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...someone screws up.

    1. Re:Inevitably... by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This just pushed wars underground.

      This is what creates FARC, AL Qaeda and KLA, etc.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    2. Re:Inevitably... by icebike · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't forget that nukes are, for the most part concentrated in the hands of nations that value human life, or at least
      their own lives. Once that is changed, and the whacko religious states that see death as a pathway to virgins get
      ahold of nukes and a deliver vehicle all bets are off.

      AL Qaeda are symbolic pikers compared to religious zealots bent on ridding the world of something they
      perceive as evil and willing to sacrifice themselves and their own citizens to do so.

      In a world where everyone has weaponry of Mutually Assured Destruction, what means are left to maintain any order?
      One could argue it just gives anyone a free hand to do anything short of launching to anyone else.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    3. Re:Inevitably... by rtb61 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You really don't get it do you. Nukes are the weapon that most effectively targets leadership, the idiots pushing the buttons, the shit heads hiding in bunkers while every else does the fighting and dying. Every knew that wars would come to an end as soon as they created a missile that targeted the 'other guys' leadership from the top down. They are not so eager to fight when it is their worthless narcissistic arses on the line, then it's all let's negotiate and give peace a chance.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  2. One small caveat by GameboyRMH · · Score: 5, Insightful

    His assumption requires that all the wielders of nuclear weapons are sane.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  3. Ultimate Time Bomb by whisper_jeff · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sorry to be blunt but anyone who thinks this is a moron.

    The lack of wars involving countries possessing nuclear weapons does not demonstrate that it is a good peacekeeping measure. It demonstrates that it's a good _TEMPORARY_ peacekeeping measure. The problem is, eventually, at some point, someone will push the button. And the button has drastic results that will instantly eradicate any concept of "peace" in an instant as well as plunging the planet into the stone age. Just because a weapon _temporarily_ prevents violence does not mean it will _permanently_ prevent it. We are, in the end, human. We will, eventually, fight. Someone will sling insults and then, eventually, someone will throw a punch. The problem is the punch will wipe out an entire city and be followed by hundreds of other punches.

    Anyone who thinks nuclear weapons are a peacekeeping tool is an idiot. They are the ultimate ticking time bomb. They are a temporary solution to a permanent problem.

    To be blunt.

    1. Re:Ultimate Time Bomb by Mullen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, if I can be blunt, what you state are the words of a simpleton.

      The fact is, there are nuclear weapons in the world. They are here and they are not leaving until something more powerful comes along and to decry their existence is pointless and left for debating by simpletons who live in a dream world.

      Permeant peace is an unachievable dream since every State has their own goals and many of those goals go against another States goals. In a sense, nuclear weapons create a temporary peace that is very very very long. Creating a balance where if one nuclear actor strikes another, they will strike back with nuclear weapons. This creates a very balanced, and I will admit, frightening peace.

      Iran and North Korea, with all of their bluster, are never going to strike their nuclear neighbors since the neighbors will strike back with nuclear weapons. The balance being; anything they have to gain will be lost in the mushroom clouds that soon form over their own cities. Their leaders might be crazy, but they know the day they strike with nuclear weapons, is the last day they are in power and power is all they care about.

      --
      Linux O Muerte!
  4. Fewer, but more destructive by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Right. There is a plausible argument that nuclear weapons may have decreased the frequency of large-scale war. (That argument could be challenged [the data set is only 67 years, which may not be statistically significant] but it's a defensible proposition). However, nuclear weapons increase the destructiveness of large-scale war. So it is not at all obvious that decreasing the frequency but increasing the severity of war is a good result.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
  5. Re:Wrong by amicusNYCL · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's exactly what he said, wars have been relegated to "peripheral states", not major states. Proxy wars between major states inside a third-party country is not the same thing as a direct war between the two major states.

    --
    "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  6. More data needed. by mosb1000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Once we have a few global nuclear wars under our belt, we'll have a better idea of the overall destructiveness, as well as the frequency, and we'll be able to make a more meaningful comparison. This is hypothetical, of course, because it's unlikely someone would seriously consider that question after a full scale nuclear war had occurred.

    1. Re:More data needed. by NalosLayor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wars pretty much happen because of scarcity of resources and imbalance of information. Both sides think they can win (even factoring in the cost of war) and both sides can't have the resources. Structuring languages and governments can make more slightly less likely, but not significantly so.

      You can't fix the imbalance of information as no society will believe a simulation all the time, especially of war, which depends on all sorts of human factors. The only way out, really, is to have unlimited resources. That is actually the main thesis implied by the push for globalization: That through capitalism, we can have a non-zero sum game (drastically increase available resources to all nations) and avert real war. And it seems to work -- but it leads to the (reasonable) criticism of the anti-globalists: that there is still a finite amount of resources and sooner or later capitalist technological innovation won't be able to extend them any further.

      Which leads to the basic final disconnect: Are you fundamentally optimistic about technology or pessimistic? If you're an optimist, we've already solved the long term problems that create world wars, and the last two were simply a painful transition period. If you're a pessimist, we've only delayed the inevitable and they were merely a preview of coming attractions -- which increased resource use is hastening.

  7. Re:No wars... right... by arceum · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wikipedia breaks it down like this because of the availability of information, not the frequency of the subject. You really think there have been the same number of wars from the beginning of time to 1000ad as the last 18 months, as you imply? There have wars that took out entire civilizations that you've never heard of, that no one has heard of, Wikipedia is no time traveler. There have been no major wars, what makes a war major, you ask, my answer would be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll