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Ex-Nokia Staff To Build MeeGo-based Smartphones

Posted by timothy on from the hope-springs-eternal dept.

Snirt writes "A group of ex-Nokia staff and MeeGo enthusiasts has formed Jolla (Finnish for 'dinghy'), a mobile startup with the aim of bringing new MeeGo devices to the market. According to its LinkedIn page, Jolla consists of directors and core professionals from Nokia's MeeGo N9 organization, together with some of the best minds working on MeeGo in the communities."

33 of 200 comments (clear)

  1. Good luck by Tancred · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think it's too late due to the developer network effect (same goes for Firefox OS and even Windows Phone). But I'd like to be wrong about that.

    1. Re:Good luck by fatphil · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Your worries are valid. My hope is that they decide that absolute openness of the platform (so basically like the true-Maemo n900 was, rather than the fake-MeeGo-broken-Maemo n9) will lower the entry bar to a level where people feel it might be a fun thing to play with, as the time investment on trying to work around restrictions is minimal. I.e. something every linux hacker would want. Once (and if, of course) there's a critical mass, hopefully it will take off in a bigger way.

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      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    2. Re:Good luck by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But are there enough "Linux hackers" that would bother to buy the thing? After all we've seen that Linux hackers would rather have the Windows Tax break than buy from places like System76 as the Newegg article from a few weeks back showed, and Open Moko didn't sell enough to make it worth doing, so I'm seriously doubtful there are enough hackers that give a shit about their phone OS to actually make this worthwhile.

      After all if Linux hackers only bought from Linux vendors and bought open hardware we'd already have a market with such devices, but the fact that we don't leads me to believe there just isn't enough that care what runs on their phones. Hell without economy of scale on their side these things will probably be higher than a decent Android phone, not to mention I seriously doubt ANY carrier is gonna offer a hacker friendly phone on contract so it'll be full price city which averages $400-$600, at least around here. How many people are gonna pay that just to have a fully hackable phone? Raise of hands, how many here will be pre-ordering if they offer it?

      Sorry to be a downer but without a major OEM like Samsung or Nokia behind it I just don't see any of these niche phones going anywhere, and that goes for WebOS, MozOS, and WinPhone as well.

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    3. Re:Good luck by Microlith · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They don't need to make a device targeted at Linux hackers. They can add those capabilities on whatever device they make. What they need to do is take the territory that Nokia lost when they abandoned Symbian, and deliver on support in ways that Android vendors fail utterly at. If they can do that, catering to us nerds is something they'll do anyway because they'll want that capability themselves.

    4. Re:Good luck by fatphil · · Score: 3, Informative

      Estonians (not know for being the richest country in the world) paid ~$800 for an N900. That's way more than a month's average wage here.

      Finns pre-ordered at that same price by the thousand. I know _dozens_ of people with the N900, more than of any other phone I know. And I'm not just thinking of my colleagues who used the prototypes as our daily device while working on the project (that would be hundreds, not dozens), I'm thinking of non-Nokians who paid cold hard cash for the thing.

      However, you're right, this would be a niche thing. The market is going through a catastrophic collapse towards a duoculture or even monoculture, the chance of anything new (or old but recycled) making it big now are absolutely minimal. They've got to fight over the scraps now. Achieving critical mass is not for domination - it's for staying alive.

      Downer? Hah! You're barely making a dent compared with what Elop did to me! (By joining the company 2 years back...)

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    5. Re:Good luck by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

      And with the rest of the Slashdot posters who chime in they could sell several dozen. Probably even enough to give Windows Phone a run for it's money.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    6. Re:Good luck by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The late Steve declared keyboards were bad, so every second-rate Jobs wannabe declared keyboards had to go.

      Nokia's last horizontal slider phone, I believe, was the E7 released in Feb 2011.

      RIM, for the time being, offers vertical sliders.

    7. Re:Good luck by KiloByte · · Score: 3, Interesting

      While N900 is the best smartphone currently existing, it is a terrible phone exactly due to the telephony interface. If it rings while in a bag, there's a ~50% chance some random button on the touchscreen will press itself (and an incoming call unlocks the screen!). It can drop calls entirely due to a "turn the phone face down" gesture which must have taken some serious drugs to invent. The interface for calling someone is not any better.

      So really, if there's a way to initiate (and perhaps even receive!) calls from the command line, it would actually be better than current shit. After beating some sense into the keyboard code, the terminal is more convenient to use than most laptops, I'd sure take having to type "accept" or an alias over randomly rejecting calls.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    8. Re:Good luck by Microlith · · Score: 4, Informative

      The N9's Harmattan is basically Maemo 6, only without GTK and the "Aegis" security system in place. It was "MeeGo-compatible" due to sharing a number of platform APIs and including Qt, but not MeeGo due to lacking some APIs MeeGo had as well as being DEB based and not RPM based.

    9. Re:Good luck by davydagger · · Score: 4, Interesting

      sure there are.

      the n9 sold more phones with no support than the overhyped windows phone in the same time peroid.

      People will ask for it by name, and the people who want it are usually willing to pay, as its more than just a phone, as the rest of them are to other people.

    10. Re:Good luck by davydagger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      nobody wants windows on a cellphone. People only use windows on the PC because they feel they are stuck with it.

      Partnering with microsoft was a terrible idea. Unless windows 8 phone is some total game changer, its all lost.

      They were much better sticking with maemo, because at least when you have GNU/linux, you have the monopoly on a solid niche. All of which are rabid fanatics who both shell out 10x money for a phone, only to turn around and do free work on it. When you have windows, you really don't have a base. The techies don't want it. The average user is comfortable with android, and the newbsauces, trendies have apple. Even corporate is going to apple, and there is nothing that windows phone does the iphone doesn't to counter this trend.

      As for microsoft, "windows" is a toxic brand. If I were any other company, I'd be hesitant in selling "windows" anything. If I were microsoft, I would call "windows phone" "xbox phone", as the xbox brand is far less hated. In fact, I'd discontinue the windows brand alltogether except for corporate, and just use the xbox name.

    11. Re:Good luck by davydagger · · Score: 3, Informative

      davlik-alien had a maemo port.(something like WINE but for armel android/liunx to gnu/linux). So its not unfeasiable to run anrdroid apps.

    12. Re:Good luck by DMiax · · Score: 5, Informative

      the company was not bleeding money. they had a profit instead and it was also growing. However it was expected that the symbian based revenue and profits (it made profits) would be down some time around next year (2013). Elop could have delayed the current crash by two years at the very least by just doing nothing.

      So yes, something needed to be done, but there was no hurry, and surely no need to actively kill symbian and all phones that were already being produced and focus only on something that came several months later.

      The in house OSes are currently the only chance Nokia has of not being dismantled. If Elop took the time to evaluate the strategy maybe he could have had a backup plan. It seems instead that he wanted to put Nokia in a place where it was either success with windows or bankruptcy with windows, and the "staying alive with our own OS" was not really an option for him. Now it is clear that the path will be bankruptcy with windows.

    13. Re:Good luck by ladoga · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I should have included the bit before that. I know about that, but how does that affect its openness?

      Aegis prevents messing with some of the system files, but it's not too hard to circumverent/disable Aegis alltogether. Install open kernel or use Inception.

      Though I haven't bothered with either. Aegis hasn't (yet) come into my way when porting software to the phone or installing stuff from community repository with apt-get. Much of stuff in community repos are just stock debian armel packages, with slight modifications in control files.

      If you know how to compile programs in Linux, then that's the only thing you need to know to port stuff to Harmattan. Install Scratchbox to your computer, log in to it, download sources, apt-get necessary -dev packages, ./configure && make and scp resulting binaries to your phone. For extra points you can ofcourse roll it into debian package and kindly ask at #harmattan IRC channel for your package to be added to the community repository so that everyone can install it on their phones with apt-get.

      N9 is just awesome. Swipe UI wipes the floor with Android and IOS + it really feels like a true Linux computer. Elop has made sure it's hard to get, but IMO it's easily worth all the money you throw for it.

  2. Something tells me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... they would rather see you translate Jolla as "Lifeboat," rather than "Dinghy."

    1. Re:Something tells me... by furbearntrout · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Lifeboat" tells me that your project is the Titanic and the ship is sinking.

      Actually it's the the Lusitania, and it got torpedoed by Microsoft.

      --
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  3. Re:Change the god damned name first... by Microlith · · Score: 5, Informative

    No worries, I doubt there will be a product named MeeGo. In fact, it isn't even using MeeGo, but Mer, which spun off from MeeGo when it became obvious that Nokia was going to walk away and Intel was off to pursue other things.

    Jolla will probably name it something else exclusive to them. All that matters is by going with Mer (or as they've been saying, MeeGo) you know one thing: Qt.

  4. Re:Change the god damned name first... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yugo, MeeGo, WeAllGo

  5. Chairs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Over in Redmond, Washington, millions of chairs cried out in terror as a sweaty monkey realised that all that money he's spend was in vain.

  6. It is actually a good idea by miknix · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If they start selling some phones, who else better than Nokia to buy the company?

    1. Re:It is actually a good idea by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Funny

      I dunno, maybe they should buy Nokia?

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  7. Re:"Jolla" means "dinghy" in Finnish? by Tancred · · Score: 3, Informative

    The company started as a pulp mill in 1865 in the city of Nokia, whose name might be from the word for sable, marten or beaver.

  8. How long until their market share exceeds Nokia's? by micheas · · Score: 5, Funny

    12 months?

    --
    Work bio at MMWD
  9. long live the n900! by fikx · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Please please please please buy the IP on the n900 hardware...don't let such a good design vanish....

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    AB HOC POSSUM VIDERE DOMUM TUUM
  10. Re:Change the god damned name first... by Microlith · · Score: 5, Informative

    There's only a few actual connections.

    Intel: Moblin -> MeeGo -> (huge disconnect, much package shedding) -> Mer
    Nokia: Maemo -> Harmattan
    Samsung: Tizen

  11. You've got until... by Duncan+J+Murray · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...my unreplaceable one-of-a-kind Nokia N900 becomes irreparable, to come up with a phone worthy as its successor. It seems pretty solid, so I'll give you a few years. (fingers crossed)

    The mobile market definitely needs a full gnu/linux phone. In fact, the N900 follows on from a privileged few mobile devices with desktop-like capability - the psion 3a, psion 5mx, Nokia 9500 communicator, Nokia E90 (only just). And it was only really the Psions that didn't shy from giving you the full OS experience just because it was a mobile device. Why can't my mobile device have a full fledged file-manager with drag-and-drop capability or a desktop where I can place regularly used files as well as applications?

    But maybe I'm mad - apparently you don't need these things on the desktop either.

  12. Re:Could be the next Intel by gl4ss · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Hey, if a few former Fairchild Semiconductor employees can form Intel and go on to take over the world, I don't see any reason to doubt a bunch of former Nokia employees could have a big impact on the cell phone market. Of course the odds of any startup just avoiding liquidation are very slim, so I don't recomend sinking money into them, but this is a very fast moving, immature market, so there's huge potental there.

    it's like the third offshoot from Nokia, that's aiming to make phones.

    Benefon actually made a lot of phones too(they were the first with tetris on a phone, first with t9, had dual sim phone ages ago and so forth), but their heyday went a decade ago.

    the question for this new venture is if they can scoop up enough money to actually produce the hw properly. there has been literally dozens of OS only producing companies which amounted to pretty much nothing.

    --
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  13. Re:Wrong OS... by Microlith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    there's just no way to get MeeGo up to speed compared to Android, iOS and WP7 at this point API wise

    Since you're so familiar with the details, care explaining how? Some detail, if you would. I'm curious as to how Qt 5 and the rest of Mer (the MeeGo-type core Linux platform they're using) is deficient, API wise.

    Or is this yet another empty implication?

    They should have started with an OS that was not too far behind and also had a strong core following - WebOS.

    So they should have gone with an OS they were totally unfamiliar with, rather than one they were familiar with... why?

  14. Jolla does not mean a rescue boat - too small by hkultala · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'm a finn,so I know what "Jolla" means.

    Jolla means a very small sailing boat - not meant for rescue, but meant for people who want to go sailing alone on a very small boat.
    (who either cannot afford bigger boat or just likes very small boats)

    Jollas cant be used as rescue boats, they are too small for that.

  15. Re:Change the god damned name first... by wmac1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I am starting to worry whether we can rely on less popular open source software? In recent few years many of the open source libraries and software I use were discontinued.

    - a few of the developers decided to produce commercial versions and sell for money
    - a few others thought they need money for living and started developing new commercial projects with functionalists similar to the open source one but better (this category includes myself)
    - a few others just gave up on the project and left the source code somewhere hoping that someone else will continue developing it

    The reason might be the hard fact that you cannot work for free and pay for your life.

    This question comes to my mind: Which open source projects we may trust (to rely on them)? ... perhaps those which have a better business and sustaining plan ?

  16. Re:Wrong OS... by Microlith · · Score: 4, Informative

    Where are the higher level frameworks in QT? Perhaps they are in Mer, but I could find no reference for that, which indicates there's not much Mer there.

    All of the mobile-specific stuff is going into Qt Mobility. Anything missing will undoubtedly need to be added, I suspect that the team in question is aware of that.

    Mobile programming these days is a LOT more than just being able to draw or do simple animations or being able to hit SQLLite.

    No shit. Do keep in mind that this is the same team that developed the N9, I'm pretty sure they're aware of what deficiencies exist in the available APIs.

    That would imply I ever had any "empty implications", whatever the hell that means.

    Your frequent "proclamations" or unsupported statements for or against things that, unless prompted, you never give reference to or back up. It's a very general thing that you have a habit of doing here on Slashdot.

    Is that something like when you are not a mobile developer and you cast aspirations of those who are when they try to tell you how things really work?

    No, I just find it highly annoying when people think others are supposed to just blindly believe what they say.

    Yes, if they actually wanted to have meaning in the market instead of chasing their tails. Instead the prediction of their demise is sadly all too certain to make.

    And jumping on board with a platform that is being shoveled out the door by HP, with no future development in sight, is a smart move to make? Who knows, they may adopt some of what's in webOS, maybe merge it into Qt. We don't have visibility into much more than what's been pointed out today. Odd that, given the sparse info, you're already making proclamations of their doom.

    They could have folded some aspects of MeeGo into the underlying WebOS infrastructure, but Qt 5 is ANCIENT compared to modern mobile OS's. They will get nowhere with this little vanity project, which makes me sad indeed given the effort they will undoubtedly sink into it. I despise wasted potential.

    Then go back to your iOS development and let everyone else try to ensure there are more options than just Apple/Google, and maybe enjoy a niche. Not everyone needs to take on the two beasts out of the gate or serve every possible customer, they just need to be profitable.

  17. Re:Change the god damned name first... by davydagger · · Score: 4, Insightful

    well consider its the successor to maemo, I'd say most of the nerds want one. Like they wanted maemo.

    Why? its a gnu/linux cellphone. Nerds like gnu/liunx. This is slashdot. News for nerds. I'm pretty sure that to the average slashdot reader, that something this nerdy is a very big deal. Especially after the whole nokia/microsoft debacle. Again, nerds are smart people and aren't driven off by silly things like labels and driven towards marketing campaigns. They are driven because its going to be easy to modify with a great community, which makes it more of a hobby than a cellphone. Being nerds, modifying cellphones is a very legitimate hobby. Again this is slashdot.

    Find your way back to gawker please.

  18. Re:Free OS = Cancer by CRCulver · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is really dangerous for Nokia. Non-compete clauses have no effect here as these guys don't "compete" in the strictest sense.

    Demanding promises not to compete are not a feature of Finnish business life. In fact, it's the opposite: when laying off workers, Nokia has always pledged to help set them up with another firm doing something similar to what they were working on at Nokia. The idea is that since Nokia has decided some project no longer makes sense for its bottom line, it can't do any harm if people keep pursuing it at another firm.

    This is what is playing out now with Jolla and has happened numerous times before with other Nokia spinoffs.