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Ask Slashdot: Documenting a Tangle of Network Devices?

LoudMusic writes "One of the many tasks of a network administrator is documenting the network so that other members of the administration and support teams can find devices on the network. Currently my organization uses Excel spreadsheets to handle this, and it's invariably error ridden. We also save a new file with the date in the name each time an update is made. I'd like to move this to a more intelligent database system, but the driving force for keeping it in spreadsheets is the ability to take the document offline, edit it, then upload this new revision to the file server when we have a connection again. Our clients often don't have reliable internet connections, especially when we're tearing their network apart and rebuilding it. The information we're currently documenting about an individual device are: device name, device model, description, IP address, MAC address, physical location, uplink switch & port, and VLAN. What tools exist that would allow us to have multiple users make updates both online and offline simultaneously, and synchronize changes into both the online and offline copies?"

165 comments

  1. SharePoint by Bob535 · · Score: 1

    If your company has it, if not, and you have a spare Win2K8R2 machine laying around you can just install the free version.

    1. Re:SharePoint by Bob535 · · Score: 1

      More specifically a custom list in SharePoint, using SharePoint Workspace (part of enterprise Office 2010) in order to access offline.

    2. Re:SharePoint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If your not trolling, please kill yourself.

    3. Re:SharePoint by Bob535 · · Score: 1

      you're.. and I'm not trolling I'm a linux user at home, but my job every day is in front of MS SharePoint and Windows X, use what you have.

    4. Re:SharePoint by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2

      Only if you want it to fail completely at the worst possible moments, buy expensive clients, and run headlong into the built-in limitations with no possibility to extend or work around them without hiring 3 people to support Sharepoint. I just dealt with a company that had gone this route, and it was very difficult to extract any information to usable configuration or scanning information, especially for security surveys.

      What you need depends on the scale. Large environments might benefit from commercial tools like OpsManager, which is quite expensive, and for which 90% of the features are unwanted and not useful. But the 10% that are useful include very effective configurable auto-mapping and Visio plugins for shops that like Visio.

    5. Re:SharePoint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like he has Excel. So to reconcile "Use what you have." and "Install a new SharePoint Server" one would seem to need some form of cognitive dissonance.

    6. Re:SharePoint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Grab RackTables. Free and expandable.

    7. Re:SharePoint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's already on Windows, stop being a faggotlord. SharePoint works for this, even git would. OP needs to quit his job and start collecting trash.

    8. Re:SharePoint by DarkOx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have to agree with this. Sharepoint is actually a pretty darn good CMS / collaboration tool. What's great about it is that is a large complex framework that offers tons of flexibility what's terrible about it is that is a large complex system.

      There is another problem with Sharepoint, its way to easy to get started with and not know anything about it. This is typical of most Microsoft Solutions actually. If you are never going to have more than 20 people using it occasional it probably run fine forever, but as we all know things rarely stay that way. If its good for your group some other group in your org will want to start using it, than another and so on and so forth. Pretty soon your basic point click one box deployment on SQL Express is in real trouble.

      Don't kid yourself Sharepoint aint easy. Good Sharepoint support and development people have lots of knowledge about Sharepoint, and they will have worked pretty hard to get it, it won't have come with trial and error running a box part time. You most likely won't have time to just pick it up yourself. You are going to end up hiring people to run it. Sharepoint is only a good solution if you have people to support it or your really know and I mean really know that its going to stay a small simple environment.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    9. Re:SharePoint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Installing and maintaining SharePoint in order to populate one custom list
      is like picking off sparrows with tomahawk missiles.
      It will get the job done but its a tad overkill.

    10. Re:SharePoint by JDG1980 · · Score: 1

      If your company has it, if not, and you have a spare Win2K8R2 machine laying around you can just install the free version.

      SharePoint is a horror show and is nearly impossible to maintain unless you've got a dedicated team of people with a PhD in SharePoint. Just one example of weird/problematic behavior: all files in document libraries are stored as database records. Yes, no matter how big they are. So if you want to post an install disc ISO to your SharePoint site so your techs can all access it? Have fun waiting all day for SQL Express to write or read a 600MB record. There are ways of doing "stubbing" to get around this, so only a pointer to the actual file is kept in the database and the file is stored in a filesystem – but none of them are built-in, they all require expensive third-party solutions. Why was something this straightforward not included as basic functionality?

    11. Re:SharePoint by unencode200x · · Score: 1

      The points you make are mostly related to SharePoint 2007. SharePoint Foundation 2010 installs almost too easily on Windows 2008 R2. there is a like two click prerequisite installer and another similar easy installer for SharePoint itself. It's like a 1 on a difficulty scale of 1 to 10. Then throw in Search ServerExpress 2010 with a super easy install that integrates wi SP and crawls and indexes your file servers and bam, you have some serious just about FREE capabilities. Also third party tools are no longer needed to store files outside of SharePoints MSSQL database. It can be done easily with MSSQL's FILESTREAM feature. Granted setting up Kerberos takes about an extra 15 minutes, but you gain a lot of ease of use for end users.

      --

      Chance favors the prepared mind.
      Perfect is the enemy of good.
    12. Re:SharePoint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      kill you'reself

  2. I don't know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    but if it doesn't involve QR codes, I don't think it's sufficiently hip.

    1. Re:I don't know by Skapare · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Those could be handy with the right smartphone app. Shoot the QR and the app finds it in the database (not spreadsheet) and shows you the network diagram around it (as last known to be wired or scanned).

      A tiny QR printer could be nice.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    2. Re:I don't know by way2trivial · · Score: 1
      --
      every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
    3. Re:I don't know by Skapare · · Score: 1

      Does it make the QR code labels?

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    4. Re:I don't know by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      No, but it's webscale, agile, and all the cool kids are using it.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    5. Re:I don't know by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      making QR codes is easy(ish) i would bet that all of the "cool" Frameworks have some sort of module that does QRCodes
      (i would not be surprised if ImageMagik had a script that did them)

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
  3. Not offline, but.. by grasshoppa · · Score: 3

    I use wiki software for network documentation. Tied it in to nagios, actually, so on the device listing page I can jump right to the documentation page.

    Not offline, I know, so it doesn't directly match the job requirements. But I think "offline" is a bad requirement anyway.

    --
    Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    1. Re:Not offline, but.. by Skapare · · Score: 1

      Offline is not a worry unless you can't reach the nearest cell tower from your smartphone.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    2. Re:Not offline, but.. by vlm · · Score: 1

      I use wiki software for network documentation. Tied it in to nagios, actually,

      Another fun trick with nagios is connecting it to something like RANCID... A simple perl script (err, well, sorta simple anyway) eats the cisco configs gathered by RANCID and emits nagios config files...

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    3. Re:Not offline, but.. by Nerdfest · · Score: 1

      At one point where I wanted something similar, I did it with a dot notation file and GraphViz. It had the following advantages:

      - As it's text, version control and multiple users can be handled quite easily.
      - It's open source.
      - The only tool you need to make updates is a text editor.
      - It can be displayed as a Node diagram (or other) using a variety of free tools.

      Each documented node can specify name, MAC, address, type, model, etc, and you can define the links between nodes. You can also use this to handle very large networks etc, by maintaining separate parts in separate files. The software will create a single large diagram for you from them if you like. Auto-generate the diagram file from the committed files as serve on a web server.

    4. Re:Not offline, but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We only have one tower accessible from our "city" of 6000. This single tower hosts multiple companies' equipment but does have issues quite often that take them all down. Not reaching the nearest cell tower could be a big possibility for some.

  4. and what about the offline part? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    and what about the offline part?

    1. Re:and what about the offline part? by bLanark · · Score: 1

      and what about the offline part?

      What about the "offline access" available?

      --
      Note to ACs: I won't mod you up, even if you are being funny or insightful. So take a chance! It's not real life!
    2. Re:and what about the offline part? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      3rd part software and not free

    3. Re:and what about the offline part? by bLanark · · Score: 1

      3rd part software and not free

      Well, maybe MyCo buys this, but AFAIK this is part of a modern Windows infrastructure and all provided by MS. Works seamlessly on XP, so it's not bleeding edge tech. If it's reachable by network, then XP in a domain environment offers an offline ability. I'm not saying the merge is painless, but at least conflicts are flagged, which is more than the current situation the OP suffers.

      .

      --
      Note to ACs: I won't mod you up, even if you are being funny or insightful. So take a chance! It's not real life!
    4. Re:and what about the offline part? by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      3rd part software and not free

      The same thing can be said about the Excel spreadsheets that serve as their current solution.

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
  5. If you are a customer site working on their ... by Skapare · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... currently broken network trying to fix it, you should be using a smartphone app to access the database (not spreadsheet) of network configuration info.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  6. git by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    based on the requirement "multiple users make updates both online and offline simultaneously", i'd consider using git

    1. Re:git by xombo · · Score: 1

      I doubt you'll be able to properly merge the spreadsheet via git.

    2. Re:git by next_ghost · · Score: 1

      CSV?

    3. Re:git by Hegh · · Score: 1
      I'm surprised it took this many comments to reach this solution, as it's what immediately popped into my mind when offline, versioned access was being requested.

      One or more CSV files (or another line-based text format) in Git would allow for multiple simultaneous updates, offline, to be merged at a later date, and it would provide offline access to the most recent updates that you fetched when you were last able. Additionally, all historical changes, plus descriptive messages at each commit to say why the network changed the way it did.

      --
      Bravery is not a function of firepower.
      ~J.C. Denton (Deus Ex)
  7. Enterprise DBMS by vlm · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Currently my organization uses Excel spreadsheets to handle this, and it's invariably error ridden.

    In the real world, away from press releases, sadly, Excel is the real world enterprise DBMS for almost all corporations.

    I also worked for a place that used a word processor for DBMS.

    No codd normal forms, and joins/selects are done completely by intern / human power.

    Basically all the "paperless office" did was make it slightly easier to do existing paper processes. No core technological/process changes.

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    1. Re:Enterprise DBMS by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      Sadly, I've seen things quite similar, but this is what happens if you let end users design a system.

      "We need a menu |screen |report |transaction |table |program| app[1] that has the customer phone no and name in it. And another one that has the name and city. And another that has the fiscal ID and the phone number ... "

      Essentially replicating a card index (or rather, several).

      The joke was, a sophisticated multifunction search that did all that and loads more was already there, right out of the box.

      [1] to them, these (and many others) were synonyms...

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    2. Re:Enterprise DBMS by Svartormr · · Score: 1

      I feel for you man.

      But they are used for the same reason paper systems are used. Simplicity and human-readable hard copy that captures all the details. They just get used in situations that are way too complex.

      Considering the orignal problem, if it's a network that isn't hierarchical and simple enough in design that these simple records aren't good enough and easy to maintain, well, that's part of the problem.

    3. Re:Enterprise DBMS by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Currently my organization uses Excel spreadsheets to handle this, and it's invariably error ridden.

      In the real world, away from press releases, sadly, Excel is the real world enterprise DBMS for almost all corporations.

      Even before Excel I was using Lotus 1-2-3 as DBMS... why? Because it's easy to setup, easy to use, and it Just Works for many basic database applications.
       
      Yet, somehow, this is (on Slashdot) always the user misusing the [spreadsheet] program rather the failure of DBMS's.

    4. Re:Enterprise DBMS by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Yet, somehow, this is (on Slashdot) always the user misusing the [spreadsheet] program rather the failure of DBMS's

      Not always, just sometimes when the thing gets to be too big. There's one in my workplace that locks the user out for around 10 seconds after any data entry. It's a spreadsheet macro that grew, office politics keeps it in use and any performance issues are blamed on "the network" even when it's run locally with the network cable unplugged! That's an extreme pathalogical example, but there seems to be a one of those in every second office and that's what we're complaining about.
      Some large spreadsheets would be better off as databases and some databases (like the sharepoint example given as a comment here, large files embedded directly into the database instead of something pointing to the file) would be better off as anything else - it all depends on what is done.

  8. Version control by dna_(c)(tm)(r) · · Score: 4, Informative

    Instead of file name encoded versioning system, use a distributed version control system: Git, Mercurial, Bazaar. It solves your offline problem too and you can keep committing changes when the network is down... And you keep track of who did what.

    1. Re:Version control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was thinking this as well, but seeing diffs of excel sheets doesn't seem really doable.

    2. Re:Version control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would not think that is realistic:
      1. All those systems are far too complicated for non-technical users unless you dumb them down until they provide nothing.
      2. Please, do try to merge an excel file with another. In any system.
      3. It still doesn't solve the dependency of excel.

      However, it is not at all impossible to construct a system whos state can be stored on the client. Yes, there will be trouble if everyone constantly edits everything, but that is usually not that a big problem since that's not how most workflows are.
      One way is to always consider changes as additions. Another is to restrict what is stored locally.
      Anyway. Start small, quick and ugly, then when you know what is actually needed and what the users use, scrap and rewrite beautifully. This takes much discipline, though.

    3. Re:Version control by 680x0 · · Score: 1

      You can solve the last 2 problems by working with csv (comma-separated-values) files. Just about any spreadsheet app (Excel, OpenOffice, Gnumeric) can edit them, and you can even edit them in a text editor if need be. As text, they'll diff easily, so you can merge, etc. in your VC of choice.

    4. Re:Version control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This reminds me of the classic Excel-as-a-DB error: sorting one column without sorting the other columns.

      I've seen millions of $CURRENCY going through the drain that way, several times. Nowadays, spreadsheets finally give a warning if you try to make that mistake.

      One time I could prevent it having ill consequences: they gave me the old spreadsheet with the names (of authors) in correct order and the new spreadsheet after (mis)sorting which had the complete data (book title, price, etc...). So I exported both to CSV, wrote a little script to match like with like and put that into a new CSV file which was imported into Excel.

      The solution presented by the parent would work, but the submitter should rather use a database server than a spreadsheet for his need.

    5. Re:Version control by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Right. 95% of users won't understand what CSV means. Even if you explicitly show them, with pictures and videos and everything, that figure will stay above 80.

      Of the rest, even the bright ones will forget at least half of the time and save it as a fucking mp3 or something.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    6. Re:Version control by dna_(c)(tm)(r) · · Score: 1

      I'm just pointing out they should use some versioning system instead of emulating one.

      I also think network admins should feel comfortable with something else than Excel. Just some flat text, perhaps CSV, heck even an ad-hoc xml format could do the trick.

    7. Re:Version control by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Sure they can handle them but can they handle them in a way that works sanely with them being the primary copy and stored in a VCS? can they open a csv created by another package, allow it to be editing and then save it back out again such that when the csv files are diffed the ONLY changes are the ones the user made. can they store stuff like column widths and other stuff thst csv doesn't support in a seperate file that sits alongside the csv?

      Also even if you find tools that can handles csvs in a suitable manner csv puts a LOT of stuff on one line which makes diffs harder to read and increases the risk of conflicsts when merging.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  9. There's like a thousand tools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    From map loggers to whatever else.

    http://sydiproject.com/

  10. Hm, use the cloud? by g0tai · · Score: 1

    What a good advert for a chromebook! :)

    At least that should work in the event of disaster recovery and you have 'no network' to get any documents from.

  11. Visio by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 2
    --

    "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    1. Re:Visio by Skapare · · Score: 1

      Does it still have that plugin where you give it the tabular network scan and it builds the network diagram itself?

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    2. Re:Visio by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 1

      LANsurveyor express. It works with Visio 2007

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    3. Re:Visio by Comen · · Score: 1

      Ok well to truly document your network I would say Visio some kind of visual application is going to be the best tool. I don’t use it to document client ports but all the big inter connections between routers and switches to give you a good understanding of what is going on. Using a spreadsheet only is not going to be a good way to document anything, I visual representation is always going to be better to get a good understanding on what is going on. Sometimes I do put notes on what kind of client ports connection are hanging off a certain devices. The spreadsheet work I do is IP address allocations and descriptions of what is using that space where. I have had to deal with nightmare scenarios many times were wiring was a big clustered mess of spaghetti, but instead of documenting anything before hand, I just unplugged one port at a time, and watched to see what port went down on the other side, and ran a new cable to replace that connection and make sure the switch/router port descriptions were well documented after that.

    4. Re:Visio by Svartormr · · Score: 1

      I used to use Visio. Then Microsoft bought them and it felt too dirty.

    5. Re:Visio by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I used to use Visio, but then I took an arrow ...

      Dot gives you the same sort of thing without having to be able to draw or remember to lay everything out with enough gaps at the start for new additions. While doing anything complex means having to actually read the docs it's very simple for simple stuff.
      An item branching to two others is as simple as:
      apple -> beetroot
      apple -> cucumber

  12. dhcpd.conf by Richard_J_N · · Score: 2

    I recommend the self-documenting approach. You already have to map name and MAC in dhcpd.conf (assuming you use DHCP reservations), so just put some extra comments in there (what the device actually is). That way you can be fairly sure that the docs will remain in sync with reality. However, that approach only works for relatively small networks.

    In general, avoid the "split brain" approach where you have independenytly generated documentation AND config files. Make one generate the other.

    1. Re:dhcpd.conf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean to suggest devices use DHCP and not static IPs? I hope, for the sake of OP, this isn't - and will never be - the case. Network components should *always* be statically IP assigned, and there should not be a DHCP server on that subnet. But I like your approach of documentation & config files - this is smart.

    2. Re:dhcpd.conf by sslayer · · Score: 1

      You know static IPs can be assigned by a DHCP server, right?

  13. Google Docs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Have you tried Google Docs?

    -Free
    -Easy to use and familiar look to "office" users
    -Only requires a web browser or a smartphone
    -Automatically saves revisions of the same file so you don't have to manually version
        (Come on! It's 2012 out there and IT people are still manually versioning files? Have you been trapped in a time loop?)
    -Collaborative so allows simultaneous edits of the same document (yes, simultaneous. No weird concept of lock-and-release queue.)
    -Now has an offline mode that automatically reconciles edits when online again

    I suppose that fits the bill for your description. Have fun.

    1. Re:Google Docs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I worked for a place that had a half-dozen people or so updating software on 13,000+ computers (via dialup).

      They used the spreadsheet in Google Docs to keep track of everything, and it worked brilliantly. It allowed them to keep track of things from anywhere (some of the work had to be done in the middle of the night, so working from home was common), which meant that everyone kept the master spreadsheet up to date, rather than tracking the changes manually and then (maybe) updating a corporate version the next day.

      I have trouble believing that any other solution would have worked anywhere near as well, regardless of the price.

    2. Re:Google Docs! by Svartormr · · Score: 0

      Extra feature! Google will know everything. >:(

    3. Re:Google Docs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plus: Google gets to know your internal network structure. They Do No Evil, so they won't misuse your data.

    4. Re:Google Docs! by bbeans · · Score: 1

      -Now has an offline mode that automatically reconciles edits when online again

      As long as you don't mind documenting your network in a text document (aka word doc). Offline mode isn't supported for spreadsheets yet.

      You had me excited as this is exactly the feature I need

    5. Re:Google Docs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wouldn't google drive enable this?

    6. Re:Google Docs! by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

      Don't forget the feature where you're exporting your data to another country.

  14. For dealing with a tangle ... by Skapare · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... you need to have in your toolkit a nice set of very durable wire cutters.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  15. Depends on the Size by GeneralTurgidson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For most small businesses an excel file is fine. Medium business, use a wiki or something. Large enterprise networks need some kind of CMDB. I use Racktables, but other ones like iTop exist too. There are also paid offerings like Cisco Prime, or Orion. One really interesting offering is this software called Blueprints by pathway systems. It's more about dependency mapping, but it does network documentation too.

    1. Re:Depends on the Size by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're a large business and we use both a uCMDB that is automatically (sorta; still in development) updated by AD and our network monitoring tools (Mostly HP NNM) as well as a Wiki that is manually updated (but with some automated tricky network stuff like showing which ports are in use on a switch, which has its own entry on the wiki, for example).

      Make no mistake, achieving the nirvana that is a properly standardised and documented environment is a MASSIVE undertaking for any size firm.

  16. As offline as you can get with MySQL replication by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Racktables http://racktables.org/

    It's not geared exclusively to network gear, however does include a number of features that make it nice for self documenting network config.

  17. Rancid and/or Racktables by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  18. been there done that by v1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    this is an internet classic that should be a Right of Passage for any budding network admin.

    http://www.vibrant.com/images/cables/lopsa/do-not-touch.jpg

    And not once, not twice, but thrice I've had to deal with said tangles. My solution was the same in all cases. Set aside some time and COMPLETELY document it. I use excel and conditional formulas to create cross lists for separate panels, to catch errors while trying to document.

    Then once I'm certain I have it right, develop a new organization, then pull everything and start over.

    My first experience with this removed multiple token rings, at least FOUR loops, and consolidated twelve hubs (not switches) and installed a master switch. Boot times on the floor went from 30 minutes to 45 seconds, and daily network problems vanished never to return. The morning after the rebuild we experienced an entire day of jaw-dropping throughout the building.

    Do it. It's so worth it.

    Also another hint. If you have to deal with a lot of unmarked jacks throughout the building, enlist a helper or two and use wireless headsets. One person at the rack with a keen eye for a light going out, and another one or two elsewhere briefly unplugging ethernet cables from live machines. Makes identification of jacks actually quick and easy.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    1. Re:been there done that by Scutter · · Score: 3, Interesting

      >

      Also another hint. If you have to deal with a lot of unmarked jacks throughout the building, enlist a helper or two and use wireless headsets. One person at the rack with a keen eye for a light going out, and another one or two elsewhere briefly unplugging ethernet cables from live machines. Makes identification of jacks actually quick and easy.

      FYI: Most decent cable tracers will have a "blink" function. You plug in a module under the desk and it'll blink the switch status light with a pattern that's easy to pick out of a rack by glance. If the port's not cross-connected, then it's time to break out the tone and pickup wand.

      --

      "Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
    2. Re:been there done that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tone the jacks out and mark them with a codifed scheme of some kind. If you are concerned with users knowing where they are plugged in mark the jacks on the inside of the faceplate. A-1, J-14, FA-42, etc, where the letter is a panel designation and the number is a port. Then use the coding in your documentation and floor plans. Or just document them properly as they are put in.

    3. Re:been there done that by v1 · · Score: 1

      Then use the coding in your documentation and floor plans. Or just document them properly as they are put in.

      In all of my cases I wasn't the one that put it in. In most of them the cable dogs had installed jacks without marking them, and end up with a big wad of cable coming out the ceiling and just put ends on them and plug directly into ports on hubs/switches, or randomly punch them down on the panel and then randomly run jumpers from the panel to the switches. Definitely the lazy approach, but that's what you have to pick up after a lot of the time.

      Toners and jack identifying remotes are more useful if you're a one-man-band, saves time running back and forth between jacks and the closet. But that's why I suggest headsets and an assistant. So much faster than by yourself.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    4. Re:been there done that by UnoriginalBoringNick · · Score: 2

      I have no mod points and parent is already +5 but YES! YES! YES!

      You cannot imagine how frustrating it is to send a mail to a site admin on another continent saying something like:

      "Our intrusion detection systems - for which the company invested hundreds of thousands of dollars, not to mention the countless man hours configuring, testing and analyzing results - have identified that the PC named X, connected to port Y of switch Z is clearly virused. It appears to be sharing a mini-switch with computers A,B,C,D, and E so if we shut down the port we cut off all the other computers too. Could you take a look at PC X? By the way - don't forget the possible consequences of remotely logging into a networked, virused PC with your domain adminstrator credentials" ... and receive the response:
      "Well I know which building that is but there are hundreds of computers in there. It would take me days to find it. I'll just wait until the user calls in with a problem"

      System Administrators everywhere: If you cannot walk straight to a machine on your wired network given its Name, switchport or IP address you are not administrators but passengers.

      You really do need to know the physical location of the jacks connected to every port on your wiring closet's patch panels, using any of the ideas mentioned in the above comments. Then you need to know which port of your switch connects to which jack on the patch panel. The people who already have patch cables with idents at both ends are probably not going to be the people with problems, but for those who don't it is never too late to start. I bought a load of laser printable cable labels and printed long numbers (and corresponding barcodes) on them. It takes me about 40 seconds to put idents on both ends of a new patch cable and saves me hours tugging at cables to see what moves or unplugging them to see which light goes out.

      Never identify your cables with names like 'server-1' because it WILL be used for something else one day but will not be re-labled. Just put an identifier which is unique to each cable at both ends of the cable. You can then easily look at every port of your patch panel and note which cable ends there, then look at every port of your switches and note which cable starts there. Once you have done it the first time it doesn't take much time to audit it from time to time. Although it is not much work to write a script to generate a list of which cable goes where, just using the search feature of any text editor should enable you to find source and destination for any cable, and from that you should be able to work out the location of any computer given its switchport.

      There are lots of ways to map your site retroactively. Some work well and some don't.
      Having every computer's name include the user's name works nicely in conjunction with the company phone list, but doesn't work well for lab PCs
      If you are using VOIP telephones with internal mini-switches so the computer plugs into the phone you are laughing - just talk to your phone switch administrator if that isn't you. Disclaimer: I only have experience of Cisco VOIP phones. Again - lab PCs are a problem
      Use your managed switches' spantree information to list which macs are on which ports, use your router's arp table to list which IP addresses are associated with which macs. If you live in Windows land use NBTSTAT -A (ip address) or preferably use nbtscan to find which mac and Computer name correspond to which IP. When you have seen what the data looks like - script it. It doesn't take long. Script Hint: Macs will appear on several different switches, most of them being on the inter-switch link. The port with the smallest number of connected machines is probably the port the mac is really connected to.
      I set up my system before we had IP phones so for my sites the system was simple. The wiring closet is locked and no changes are made until they are documented. The engineers I supported would not make changes to the prod

  19. Anything that involves a human updating a document by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will be out of date the moment they hit save file. If you can't do it programmatically with Mac-address-tables / arp / snmp or other real-time querying tools. You're just humped. Work toward this end even if you can't reach it right away. Any work not to this end is just masturbatory and only serves to do lip-service toward solving the problem. Your network *must* self-document or you just need to get used to the idea of the documentation always being in some state of "wrong."

  20. IPPlan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IPPlan is what i use to solve exactly this problem, but PDF output of it isnt the prettiest.
    it works, and given that the scale of problems I would have if i couldnt access the IPPlan box would be such that a copypasta from PDF kept in a dropbox folder accessible by smartphone/tablet/laptop by myself or others is minimal in contrast...

  21. Infoblox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Infoblox used to sell a box calledPortIQ. I think that has been wrapped into a new product that they sell but it will do everything that you want. You should also look at their iPam solution, which integrates. I think you will find them very beneficial in this situation.

  22. git by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dump any modified excel file into a text file of comma seperated values and dump it into git.

    convert the CSV files back into excell on a weekly or monthly basis and distribute is as the official file.

    could also use a sed script to process it into entries that sqlite could build a database on.

    Process looks just the same for people in the feild techs (edit an excell file) but does versioning (via git) and even perhaps give you a proper database that you could write tools on top of to help techs and customers.

  23. OCS Inventory-NG by Nimey · · Score: 5, Informative

    OCS Inventory is a database and reporting interface that will keep an up-to-date database of the devices on your network(s). It's got a server component that runs on Linux or Windows (Linux is recommended) and client agents that run on Windows, *nix, and MacOS X. The client agents also use nmap to scan for other types of nodes, such as routers and printers. It's very slick; I've used it for six years for my job, and we currently track over 500 computers plus a few other devices through nmap.

    The whole thing is GPL, and you can opt for a support contract.

    It can also integrate with another package called GLPI, which among other things handles trouble tickets and is also Free.

    --
    Hail Eris, full of mischief...

    E pluribus sanguinem
    1. Re:OCS Inventory-NG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Open-AudIT is very much like OCS Inventory, which i have yet to try, so i could not possibly say which is better.
      We use Open-Audit at work to periodically audit a network of ~700 workstations on a windows domain. Version 2 -currently in beta, but accessible through a link in the forums- is very well designed (i believe it's made using symfony framework, in php).

  24. My Brain Just Exploded by Gorobei · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Um, you're a technologist in charge of a network of computers, and you want to use a manual system to document your own network so that "other members of the administration and support teams can find devices on the network"?

    This is like some dystopian sic-fi satire.

    That "network" thing you have, with all its "devices," can actually tell you what it's doing! Better yet, some of those devices can "execute code," which is technology talk for stuff like generating lists of devices and their attributes, putting the results in a spreadsheet, etc.

    Google "ping" and "traceroute." Then work your way into the 1990s, then the 2000s, then take a look at some of the tools we have today.

    1. Re:My Brain Just Exploded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I concur with your sentiment, I would speculate that most devices on the network are not GPS enabled. So while it's good (actually the only sane way to do it) to have the network report back which devices exist, to get a handle on network wiring and physical locations you need to walk the floor. However, parent is 100% correct to start with auto-discovery and then fill in the blanks. If you start with a manual process you will never finish. If you start with automation, you'll get 90% of the way their after the first 5 minutes of the tool going live.

      To further support my statement and the OP, my captcha is "rosiness."

    2. Re:My Brain Just Exploded by swalve · · Score: 1

      He probably assigns static IP addresses and only lets specific MAC addresses through the switch. That way, nothing can happen without him knowing about it.

    3. Re:My Brain Just Exploded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And any not-totally-brain-damaged switch can tell you at a glance what IP addresses and MAC addresses are in use on every port.

  25. Operations Support System by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you can afford it, you could use an OSS like Cramer (http://www.amdocs.com/Products/OSS/Pages/OSS.aspx). It's a database tailored to storing just the kinds of things you're talking about.

  26. Use LibreOffice Calc by madmod · · Score: 1

    Use LibreOffice Calc, open a cell at the top left height: half the page tall and width: about 6 inches. Then use the drawing features of Calc and just put boxes, connectors, labels, etc. in your drawing. I usually then put written information below the drawing cell that describes special details network details, issues, and special notes about wiring. By having the entire page saved as an .ods document, you'll be able to open it easily. (I have over 150 such pages for clients in my business.)

  27. GAH by Shoten · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm reading all the recommendations, and it's giving me a case of Tourette's. Haven't any of these people actually had to DO what they're talking about? There's a whole realm of software meant just for this purpose: it's called IPAM, or "IP Address Management." The proper solutions also contain exactly the information you're looking to capture in addition as well, and integrate with DNS (or, in some cases, include robust DNS capability) so that they are accurate and you don't need to update the database when you set a new DNS entry. Infoblox makes one of the better implementations that I've seen, but since I don't know your exact needs in detail, I would simply look at IPAM solutions in general.

    --

    For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
    1. Re:GAH by nine-times · · Score: 1

      It depends on the size of your organization and what you're really trying to do. If the main purpose is to keep an inventory of a small amount of equipment, along with physical location, and you just want to keep the IP information along with it, then setting up software specific to that purpose can be overkill. Sure, you can tie stuff into DNS and DHCP to keep track of IP changes, but it may be that you're also keeping track of printers and peripherals, which won't show up on an IP scan. Maybe you have to install agents on clients to collect the information you want, and then suddenly there's a bug with that agent that interferes with some other piece of software. Even if it makes some things easier, you might also have to enter a bunch of information manually, train people to use it, develop the reports that you want, keep the software up-to-date, troubleshoot problems, bla bla bla.

      Your suggestion is good, but it's also important to know what you're getting into. Sometimes low-tech, manual, inefficient, stupid ways of doing things are actually smarter and more efficient.

    2. Re:GAH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. Right on. Theres an open source tool called IPPlan, you can add custom fields to the database to accomodate any information that it may not have by default, and its web based. For unreliable network connections, I thinks it's the best.. I'm not saying go with opensource, you got plenty of commercial good solutions, like BTs Diamond.

    3. Re:GAH by vlueboy · · Score: 0

      Haven't any of these people actually had to DO what they're talking about? There's a whole realm of software meant just for this purpose

      Thanks to TIMTOWTDI and the lack of regulation, there's a tradeoff in working in the nascent field of PC tech. Qualified degree-holders are the minority, and certs, colleges and pro training courses focus on vendor tools like CISCO, COMPTIA rather than general solutions --you learn those from textbooks and Real-Life networking interaction. It's part of our sad lock-in world. Compare to how each PC tech applies their personal choice of tools for, say, spyware-cleaning. It's not like there's a law to follow that you learn in tech school, let alone CS programs that cover no IT at all.

      The dedicated guy you pay to lay cables or install stuff lacks the training / interest of a network admin and thus would not know these tools. If you have some newbie/intern/secretary who takes your handwritten observations and patch panel numbers / mac addresses and knows only excel then cvs/git/wiki version control and CSV conversion becomes a large obstacle. Perhaps companies should advertise management solutions some more, but these tend to be hidden gems that are only seen by people in the trenches because they cost so much anyway. That would help us to stop asking the same answered questions (or finding they have unsolved answers)

      Compare that to the non-existing world of OSS Data Recovery tools and how we end up finding that lost clusters on the VP's machine won't be coming back because nobody is trained or willing to pay for the non-advertised, shady tools you find in a panicked google search.

    4. Re:GAH by Shoten · · Score: 1

      Yes, but there's a vast chasm of difference between not knowing about a pre-existing set of tools, and just saying (to quote one answer) "Sharepoint" with no additional information beyond that. Let's face it; that's not a helpful answer, even towards going down the wrong path. But even more noteworthy is that I didn't have anyone else teach me about IPAM options. When the time came and I needed to do something like that, I found out abou them via Google. Of course, at that point, I knew how to develop requirements and take it from there...which is a rare skill set because nobody seems to be teaching it, but an essential one as well to successfully implement a new system. The OP may not have searched the right way to get what I got, but why are there so many people who are talking as though they know how to do this, but are offering options that just plain won't work?

      There's a big difference between not knowing the answer and asking (which is good...that's how you learn) and pulling an answer out of your ass with no experience to back it up (which is very, very bad), and that's what makes me so nuts about the answers the OP has gotten from so many people here. And I absolutely agree with you...there's a dearth of information exchange and teaching about the "meta-skills" and "meta-solutions" around managing the stables of technology that a lot of organizations have. It seems to be getting better, but only very slowly and through a lot of pain. And the improvement isn't coming from the collegiate world, unfortunately.

      --

      For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
  28. we use epic where i work by rrossman2 · · Score: 2

    Its a cms setup for this task.

    We input machine name, make, model, serial number, host name, IP, physical location, wall port #, where the funding comes.from, role of the machine, and it allows.you to attach devices together (say you have a monitor in epic and a scanner, and a PC... and the monitor is attached to the PC as is the scanner.. epic allows.you to add those devices to.the base unit).

    Every piece of equipment at the 6 libraries on the main campus as well as all the branch campuses of Penn state are in the database. We also have it linked to big fix so it will list any machines big fix finds that isn't in our epic database as well as the other way around.

    You can then search and filter via criteria and download any "reports" via a csv file.

    We log more.info.than I listed (like Mac address etc) but that gives you an idea

    1. Re:we use epic where i work by rrossman2 · · Score: 1

      I should add there's well over 5000 devices in our epic setup

    2. Re:we use epic where i work by rrossman2 · · Score: 1

      Here's a link if you'd like to test it out
      http://www.epic-software.com/epicim.htm

    3. Re:we use epic where i work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Holy shit, my eyes. Not sure I want to use software designed by people who have that as their website. What is this? The 90s?

    4. Re:we use epic where i work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The home page is great too.

      (The 90s just called. They want their blink tag back)

    5. Re:we use epic where i work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ha yeah, wasn't the right link anyhow! My bad!

  29. Idea by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    Last time I had to map a network I used a tool from http://www.solarwinds.com/products/toolsets/discovery-tools.aspx. It worked really well, I decided later to write my own tool using nmap and C. Now I can't give out the actual program because the company who I worked for owns it, but if you have a weekend it's a great quick way to write a tool that can discover networks.

    1. Re:Idea by stronghawk · · Score: 1

      I second the original approach: check out Solarwinds (www.solarwinds.com). They have a lot of network and asset management tools, many of them free. They have an IP address-based discovery/spreadsheet free tool that does most of what the original poster is looking for.

  30. If it's a real enterprise system... try NetMRI by ksharif · · Score: 5, Informative
    1. Re:If it's a real enterprise system... try NetMRI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How much? Also, you guys really need better SEO. I've been looking for this sort of product for months now and this is the first I've seen it.

    2. Re:If it's a real enterprise system... try NetMRI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 to Infoblox.

      I don't work on this product... I use it every day and absolutely love it. My company is transitioning to an Infoblox-managed environment. This software makes it ludicrously easy to organize and visual complex networks (resulting from acquisitions, rapid expansion, etc.).

    3. Re:If it's a real enterprise system... try NetMRI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet another product that won't tell you how much it costs. So, its either so expensive they don't want to scare you away, or a salesman "adjusts" pricing based on how much he thinks he can soak you for at the time.

      No thanks.

  31. Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    automate it: Cacti with MacTrack plugin, rancid and nagios or openNms

  32. I call BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Bullcrap. I'm a moron and yet I can differentiate between the two. QED

  33. Some idiot modded that up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Where is even the least bit of insight in that idiotic post? How does that help the submitter in the slightest?

  34. Spiceworks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Spiceworks does a good job of automatically documenting the network. Combined with proper logins it can also document software installs and keys, bandwidth usage, personnel, and more. Also allows for metadata on each machine. Then it can draw you a pretty network map for people that can only deal with pictures (ie, the boss). Finally it can communicate and sync up with other Spiceworks installs on different network segments to give broader reporting. So you could install it locally at the client site and should the connection go down, it will continue to harvest local information that it will sync up when the connection returns. The master will even tell you when that host goes offline.

    And of course... it's free!

  35. Re:Anything that involves a human updating a docum by Cylix · · Score: 2

    Indeed, router configurations should be stored in git or similar rcs.

    What hasn't really been mentioned is the use of cdp. If your switches and routers (both Cisco and some non-cisco) support this information it can be very useful to inventory connections. Checkin scripts can update an endpoint with the port information. Then simply tracking the physical location of resources by either asset id and mac address ties the network topology to a physical locality.

    Labeling wall jacks to punch down block ports is handy for tracking cabling issues, but not mandatory for identifying port to port connectivity.

    However, depending on the skill level involved it might not be trivial and the deployment itself could be time consuming. However, the whole package can be put together in a few days. I worked at one place where someone had the right idea and the implementation was mostly there. (albeit broken) It was fairly easy to fix it up and push out the changes via their deployment process. Physically performing inventory on the network did take some time, but we sent teams to each location for asset identification. If there had not been a desire to actually store rack unit ids we would have never had to perform physical scanning. (Completely worthless for our needs, but mother corporate wanted it down to the RU.)

    --
    "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
  36. cacoo.com by DragonTHC · · Score: 1

    cacoo.com It's an online diagramming tool. You can create diagrams and flow charts alike.

    It's far more useful than using a spreadsheet. https://cacoo.com/tour

    excel? really? are you sure you have all of your NT 3.51 servers listed in there?

    --
    They're using their grammar skills there.
  37. Create a wiki for it by FridayBob · · Score: 3, Interesting

    MediaWiki is your friend. I set up one for a company a few years ago any later started using it to document my responsibilities there, which cover almost the entire ICT system.

    My part of the wiki starts on an ICT page, which is divided into sections for Hardware, Software and Telecom. Each contains a number of links to articles with table overviews that contain links to further, more specific articles. The Hardware section has links to eight articles: Servers, Workstations, Monitors, Ethernet networks, Printers Scanners, Wi-Fi and Ethernet switches. The Software section has links to seven articles: Software packages, Scripts, Domain names, IP subnets, Websites, Cronjobs and AFS volumes. The Telecom section has links to six articles: Phone numbers, telecom subscriptions, Modems, Faxes, Telephones and PBXs. For each of the articles mentioned I also created index pages and every single article has various external and internal links for easy navigation. I even created a series of terminology articles to explain various concepts and how they are important to the site.

    With several years of Wikipedia experience, the idea of using a wiki for this purpose seemed obvious to me. However, what was not easy was coming up with the structure outlined above. I had first tried out a deeper hierarchy based on the various geographical locations involved, but backed out of that idea when it was clear that it would be too much work.

    Producing this kind of documentation in as much detail as I have represents a lot of work, but it has its advantages. For example, it not only means that critical knowledge about the system is now much harder to lose and easier to share, I've also learned many new things about the system (such as all the hardware specs) and it has also forced me to research areas that I wasn't completely sure about.

    1. Re:Create a wiki for it by glassware · · Score: 2

      Seconding the wiki.

      Why is wiki better than all the other structured systems out there? Because you can easily add all the notes that just don't have places to go. There are always "weird things" you want to add to the comments; there are always hyperlinks you want to make; and there is always the need to update something in a flexible way that structured systems don't allow.

      We had a wiki system that documented all our IP allocations for servers; and we linked all the servers to the pages for how to rebuild them if they burned to the ground; and we linked all the network devices to the support contact information and contract numbers for all the vendors we needed to call if they went down; and the system was phenomenal. Anytime something had a problem, you looked it up and there was a direct link to how to solve the problem, or a note from the previous time the same thing happened, and a cross-link to the other system that depended on it.

      Even better, there was no stupid restriction preventing you from annotating something. Whenever I wanted to add a description to something, or a comment on an exception, or if I wanted to flag an IP address as "I think this is correct but it might be getting its address from DHCP and I'm not sure it's permanent", there was no enforcement. I could add it, and people could read it, and when it got confirmed the annotation went away.

      If you need offline access to your wiki, buy an iPad and a 3G connection. It's far cheaper than spending $10k per year on a structured documentation system license.

    2. Re:Create a wiki for it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm thinking about setting up a wiki for a different purpose, but I'm wondering... how difficult is it to set up a MediaWiki wiki?

      I have some familiarity with setting up web servers, but probably not sufficient. If I have a slightly underaverage IT staff, would this take days, weeks, or months to set up?

    3. Re:Create a wiki for it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Data on a wiki cannot be (easily) automatically generated and kept up to date. Doing this shit manually once is bad enough. Keeping it consistent is impossible. QA? Out the door.

      Use SNMP, NMAP, facter, fping, ping, whatever to get IPs and macaddresses, port numbers and hostnames. Throw it in a database. Or a flatfile. The datastore is NOT important, because you should be able to reproduce the data automatically by having software gather the info from the network.

    4. Re:Create a wiki for it by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Yes you may be able to* generate a DB telling you what you have and how it's connected together.

      What that autogenerated DB won't tell you is where it is, what it's for, who owns it, what the quirks of it's setup are and so-on.

      * depending on whether your network was built with entirely managed enterprise gear, entirely soho gear or a mixture of the two.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    5. Re:Create a wiki for it by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      I'm a big fan of Pmwiki, it is file based so you are not trying to get your data out of a DB if something goes wrong, and it scales well. It also has a pretty good variety of plug-ins to extend functionality.
      Installation is a breeze.

  38. Google Docs? by nine-times · · Score: 1

    If you want an excel file that can be edited simultaneously by multiple users, then maybe consider Google Docs? I'm not sure how well the offline syncing ends up working, but there is some support.

  39. I Think This Is What You Are Looking For by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know a few companies that use this. It is free and comprehensive.

    http://opennetadmin.com/

  40. ikiwiki and git by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ikiwiki.org and git as the backend

    clone the repo to your workers machines. Make changes offline, and sync with a git push when there is network.

    Or use the web interface to the ikiwiki directly if you have network.

    It's really powerful to be able to do a `git pull` and have a full copy of your docs, knowing you are going to be offline, and be able to do a git push when you can to sync any changes that you've made.

  41. SNMP Discover by flyingfsck · · Score: 2

    Uhmm, there are automated tools for that... Zabbix, OpenSNMP and many more.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  42. use git? by Sadsfae · · Score: 1

    For the least amouint of effort, you could simply use git and keep the same name. That'll let you have revision control of the single document.

    http://rogerdudler.github.com/git-guide/

    While this isn't a permanent solution it's better than what you have and pretty damn easy to setup.

    --
    Have a squat over at the hobo house.
  43. fossil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Save the data as a CSV text file and keep it in a fossil repository (http://fossil-scm.org). As long as the changes are linear, then there's no problem, if multiple people make changes then it will store the changes as branches which can be merged. You can view the data in spreadsheet format, but by saving it as csv, fossil will make merging changes easier, and since fossil will let you make multiple changes/revisions offline and sync with an online repository when you have internet access.

  44. intranet webpage by Fosterocalypse · · Score: 1

    create a table formatted like you have in your xls file and create a simple webpage to view the data in real time. You could upload the xls file to start exactly where you guys are at now and even create and export to spreadsheet feature if you need it for reporting etc. Should only take 2-3 hours to set everything up the way you want it. My first thought was Sharepoint but that's also provided you have a Windows box to put it on and not just *.nix based servers.

  45. netdot by danpritts · · Score: 2
    Network Documentation Tool

    "Netdot is an open source tool designed to help network administrators collect, organize and maintain network documentation."

    https://osl.uoregon.edu/redmine/projects/netdot

    https://osl.uoregon.edu/redmine/projects/netdot/wiki

  46. Build a page that lets them upload a csv by whois · · Score: 1

    I used to have the same type of setup. We required the field techs to submit an as built of what they put out there. Then we would run a script that checked to see that it was all online and configured properly, then stick it into a database.

    It wasn't perfect. It didn't save a copy of the original upload so once it was in the db it was just more records.. reverting changes was a manual thing for me if something went wrong. But you can make it as complex as you like, your primary problem is going to be enforcing the change in work habits, which has got to come from management or you'll have people holding out no matter how much better the new system is.

  47. LLDP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's unlikely that you can acheive this, but if you have a network architecture with swithes that support LLDP (802.1AB), you can completely eliminate excel spreadsheets as you can poll the switches using SNMP to see what devices are connected to each switch port. (I may not fully understand your situation though.)

    There's a Linux daemon that allows Linux HW to announce their presence to an LLDP capable switch so it is known what device is on what port. (https://github.com/vincentbernat/lldpd/wiki/) There's probably also the same avaialable for Windows HW too.

  48. Drupal by sprior · · Score: 1

    I've been thinking about the next time I do something like this and I'd take a serious look at doing it in Drupal. The Drupal website content management system you ask? Well once you get past a learning curve you realize that Drupal is a web based front end to a database which includes developer defined content types with custom fields and a CRUD front end with powerful permissions management, change tracking, query system, and presentation layer. For the offline issue there are export modules to Excel.

  49. GLPI + OCS-NG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You'll get a help desk system, some automated acquisition, and an IT inventory system for $0 + setup time (which is a morning or so if you're fairly adept)

  50. Re:My Brain Just Exploded roxy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why document it? What objectives are you trying to achieve? That is what you should be looking at. Without exception, everywhere that I have worked, when there are problems, there is no time to try to look at a document printed or online. You just look at what is actually plugged in. Why do I care what switch a PC or printer is plugged into? How can that help anything. It is just busy work. No one trusts the docs because they are never accurate, then people start pointing fingers.

    Do as this poster suggested, let the network document itself. There are tons of ways to do this with ping, arp, etc. and plenty of programs that will make nice graphs, etc. But who cares about the graphs except the PHBs?

  51. If you got money - there is HP UCMDB DDMA by kubusja · · Score: 1

    Question is how rich is your organization? There are corporate tools like HP uCMDB DDMA that keep the configuration database updated, detect changes, scan your networks etc... If you do not have money - look for Configuration Management tools - this is what you are looking for. If you totally lack money - use something like SVN/git etc.

  52. Re:Anything that involves a human updating a docum by swalve · · Score: 1

    Anything that involves a human updating a document ... Will be out of date the moment they hit save file.

    Only if you are a terrible manager.

  53. Wiki yes: But with an auto detecting CMDB. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I agree with the wiki for the documentation side of things, but you must, must, must tie it into an automated discovery system. Wiki's are great, especially for knowledge capture, when there is buy in, and if it's for yourself and successors, well there's your buy-in. However, they do not do network scanning automatically. Now writing a program to tie in your autodiscovery tool's database to the wiki should be relative chump change, and it will be invaluable. A wiki won't tell you when a network goes dark. A wiki will tell you the network was there, but when stuff disappears, you'll only catch it if you go looking for it or automate scanning your network.

  54. Let the network self document. by Above · · Score: 2

    I've seen dozens of methods at different companies, but I've only ever seen one that works and it works really well. Many of the top ISP's use a variant of it.

    Let the network self document.

    What does that mean? Well, typically it means some discipline in how descriptions are written. For instance ISP's will use a standard customer identifier on all ports. An enterprise might just use hostname. From there, tools like Rancid can poll router and switch configs, store them in a version control system, and mail out changes to the entire staff. Rancid is great to use, because it reduces the human work load down to entering a single line for each device (name and OS type), and making sure that the device accepts logins.

    Now that all the configs are archived and you have the one true list of devices it's trivial to take that list of devices and feed it to other tools. One of the first might be NetDisco which probes the devices with SNMP and builds adjacency tables, tracks MAC addresses, and so on. From it's database you should be able to locate anything on the network in seconds.

    Now that there is a complete picture of the network, it's time for a little scripting. Take the output of Rancid and/or Netdisco, and use it to for instance build an MRTG configuration file, or a list of things for Nagios to probe. It's fairly easy to take the NetDisco adjacencies and run them into a tool like GraphViz to produce a network diagram.

    I know of at least two ISP's using this basic formula, and it works really well. Going to an internal web site they can bring up diagrams, usage graphs, MAC tables, IP information and all sorts of other things about any device in the network in seconds. Once devices are in the system it is 100% automated, turn on a new port and it is magically graphed, MAC tracked, and added to the diagrams. Turn it off, it magically goes away. Everything is in version control so old state can be reconstructed. The only human manual intervention is adding/removing one line to the Rancid config when a device is turned up or turned down. I have even seen folks automate that with Netdisco (but, I think that can be problematic, as it's almost circular).

    Spreadsheets, Visio diagrams, and the like are always out of date. Someone will always make a change and forget to update it. Some places are only a little out of date, most places are downright wrong. Self documenting is achievable, and always 100% current.

    1. Re:Let the network self document. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes exactly this.

      Documentation simply tells you how someone thought the network was configured at some time.

      Actually looking at the network, both the traffic traversing it, and the interrogating the devices on it tells you how it is actually configured and working RIGHT NOW.

      One thing you should have is switches and routers configured to not allow any new devices you don't expect to connect to the network and to send notifications when they detect something anomalous, like protocols that haven't been seen before, or bandwidth on a link being outside of control for that time period.

    2. Re:Let the network self document. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. To add on to this concept of letting the network document itself, consider a RADIUS server and profiling systems that work with MAC Authentication Bypass (MAB), SNMP Traps (link up/down), SNMP Polls, DHCP Helper (get Vendor ID), RADIUS accounting, HTTP headers, and other network telemetry to understand what is out there. This is a more elegant event-driven approach to the brute force polling options mentioned by others. It will likely require the purchase of a commercial system however.

      You will have record of every MAC that has touched your network, when/where/how long, gleen info on the device (vendor, ports, OS, user, browser, etc), and even have a live session directory of active devices on the network. This will NOT give you the network topology you need as well though.

  55. Offline options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you need a database that you can use offline and then sync up with online versions of the same thing, look at CouchDB http://couchdb.apache.org/. It is ideal for this kind of thing. It is also a self contained database, web server, and application server with a REST API. Just keep a copy of the database on the computers you will want to access the list from and periodically sync with a central DB instance.

    If you want a solution that requires less development effort and is more free form, consider a Wiki like Tiddlywiki http://www.tiddlywiki.com/ that allows local installation and syncronization with a central server. Perhaps Evernote https://evernote.com/ might work as well.

  56. Flextory - An inventory system I made by cbeley · · Score: 1

    I'm actually releasing a beta of my software/service that will initially have a strong focus on Network Documentation in the next couple of weeks if anyone is interested. I initially created it due to my frustration with Netdoc and it's now gotten to the point where it has various features netdoc does not have while being a fraction of the cost and much more pleasant to use. If you're interested, you can check out the website at www.flextory.com and send me an e-mail if you're interested in trying it out early before the beta launch in a week or two. Also, the site is a bit out of date (it'll be updated for the beta launch). There are more UI enhancements, a Reminder system, attribute data types, an API and more in addition to what's mentioned on the site. The software has also already won a couple different competitions.

    The tentative plan is that the beta launch will last for three months and everything will be free. I'll also be more than happy to help anyone with data migration for the sake of getting some feedback on the system. After three months, it'll be a monthly subscription in the range of $50/month or so and I'll definitely be giving early adopters a discount.

    Even if you have no interest in ultimately using it, I'd love to get as much feedback as possible on potential new features and bug fixes!

  57. DHCP clients? by Dwedit · · Score: 1

    Can you get a list of all your DHCP clients from each DHCP server? I think that would probably be the way to go.

  58. Re:Anything that involves a human updating a docum by igjeff · · Score: 1

    >What hasn't really been mentioned is the use of cdp.

    Or even better, the much more widely supported (including Cisco in any halfway modern version of IOS), non-proprietary, and technologically superior LLDP.

  59. LANSweeper?... by jjoelc · · Score: 1

    http://www.lansweeper.com/
    Doesn't answer the offline part, and it doesn't do any kind of graphical layout (you didnt really specify graphical, though....)

    Otherwise, I love this. Enough to actually, you know... Pay for it! Lol. The free version doesn't do push scanning (just run a small script as part of the computer startup or login routine, instead) and doesn't give one click access to some of the tools. You probably already have most of those tools available otherwise, though, VNC or other remote desktop, remote management, etc...

    The server runs on SQL, has a nice web interface, can tie in with AD, gather event logging events, has tons of reports available out of the box, with the ability to build custom reports and a community that is glad to help if you aren't an SQL guru... Being SQL, exports and imports are pretty easy in whatever format you need...

  60. xmdns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I ran into a similar problem years ago. We have several network topologies that interact and hosts that are on one or multiple networks. I needed a way to make sure hosts would not cross networks to talk to a host if they didn't have to and solved it with multi-view DNS. Along the way, I store mac-address and generate dhcp tables for all of the networks and can generate connectivity graphs and store comments (eg: todo items) per system.

    We use this with an svn repository. You edit the local "db" (which is human readable xml) with a little python frontend or by hand if you prefer. Once done you run an update mechanism which goes through and runs tests, generates content from the xml and you can see exactly what changes are going to be pushed before they ever touch production systems. svn commit and wait for services to pull the new data and refresh... not to mention other people with the same checkout.

    I recently moved the project from sourceforge to github:

    https://github.com/imoverclocked/xmdns/

    I'm happy to field questions about it to interested parties.

  61. This is a management and accountability problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No software or hardware will solve the issue of incompetence and mismanagement.

    Structured cable management and inventory management problems are, in my experience, always caused by management failures.

    Sysadmins and networking people look for a software tool or something to solve the issue, but that isn't the source of the problem in the first place. When all you have is a hammer... you know the rest.

    You will find, as I have myself, when you put the right tools and make it easy to do the right thing, there will still be staff on your team who always will do the least amount of work necessary to not get fired. These people will continue to use a 12ft patch cable where a 5ft was appropriate, and use a 5ft cable where a 12ft was appropriate.

    Go to the team manager for these losers and you will find the source of the problem. Ask the IT manager for a listing of all servers, what OS they have, and the primary-responsible-person for each. Then, go perform an audit and find out they only gave you 70% of what was actually out there and that half of what they gave you is just flat-out wrong. You will find RAID arrays and servers which have not been used in years, still powered up doing nothing. Closets full of cabling nightmares, and viruses lurking on laptops brought in by employees from home.

    I have gotten awfully good at finding these disasters through the interview process. I like to go interview for new jobs all the time, even if I am not really looking, and I almost always turn the place down at the end of my first visit because their shop is a disaster and I don't want to work with incompetent people like that.

    F-grade managers, D-grade employees.

  62. Great post! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks for the great post. I'm bookmarking it for future reference.

  63. SNMP by redshirt · · Score: 1

    Why would you spend time doing this by hand when you can have SNMP probe the network for you? It can collect nearly all that information. You might have to put in some smarts to correlate switch port activates and new clients requesting DHCP, but that's easy (hint: your key is MAC address). If you need to, you can have the SNMP client supply custom OIDs to query for more specific information. Then just dump into the DB of your choice. THEN you add the appropriate DB driver to your visualizer of choice (Excel, for example) and you can generate reports.

    This isn't too complicated to set up on your own, but there are off-the-shelf products that do this, too. I've used OpenNMS with success for this purpose.

  64. Cisco Onplus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The cisco onplus is only $250 and comes with 3 years of service. Simple network device that scans the network and with snmp can document devices on switches. you can also use it to telnet, ssh, rdp and web control any device on the network.

  65. Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My god google docs you moron.

  66. Let the [virtual] network self document. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How well does that method deal with virtualized network resources?

  67. OCS Inventory by sabs · · Score: 1

    It has a discover mode, that will reach out and basically ping every IP address. It's a big job for the initial round but afterwards, it's pretty easy to keep track.

    It also has an inventory client/agent for linux, mac and windows computers and servers. And It's open source and free as in beer, and also speech.

  68. OneNote by unencode200x · · Score: 1

    To answer OP's question. Use OneNote. Awesome online and off, editable by many at the same time, tracks who changed what, securable, and super easy to do documentation in it. We use it to document thousands of network and other devices for our team of techs.

    --

    Chance favors the prepared mind.
    Perfect is the enemy of good.
    1. Re:OneNote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could I see an example of how you break this down..?
      Like how do you use it in your org? I have a limited Budget and it seems like it might work for me.

    2. Re:OneNote by GrantRobertson · · Score: 1

      I was going to suggest the same thing. And the best part is that it requires absolutely no server-side app or back-end. You just store your primary files on a server, on each of your tech's laptops you "open" the "notebook," OneNote creates a cache of the files on the laptop that can be used even when not connected to the network. Then, all your tech's can modify to their heart's content while out in the field. Then, when they get back in to the office, OneNote synchronizes all the different data into the primary file automatically, just by opening OneNote again.

      There are more details. Let me know if you have any questions.

  69. Check out Spiceworks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's got built in host and device discovery, is multi-user and does most of what you are asking for automatically. It's also got a managed service provider mode that lets you track multiple deployments on different customer networks through one portal. From the brief blurb you left, it sounded to me like you may be working for an MSP. It's free, so it would be a good one to try out. www.spiceworks.com

  70. Itop is the solution by dom22 · · Score: 1
  71. Inventory Control by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

        At one job, I wrote a little tool to keep a database updated with this kind of information.

        The servers were Linux, so it made it much easier to pull the necessary information. It's doable with Windows too. I'll only describe its function. There should be someone who can write the functional parts.

        Basically, there were a few tables with what was described in the existing spreadsheet. There were a few other fields, such as last modified, current state (online/offline/pending deployment/disposed of).

        The main table was for a machine. It had CPU, memory, OS, hardware description, and notes.

        There was a table with MAC addresses, since many machines had multiple cards.

        There was a table for IP addresses, since most machines had more than one IP on them.

        I used dmidecode to gather the machine information (manufacturer, model number, serial number, service tag).

        For the OS, it grabbed the kernel version (uname -a), and the release version (/etc/*version*, /etc/*release*)

        To gather everything, it was just a scripted SSH session from a machine that had its keys on all the other machines.

        For the most part, it was able to fill in most of the information on it's own. We extrapolated the datacenter location from the IP. It also discovered new machines with a ping scan (nmap -sP) on machines on that network segment, arp cache, and the network switch. We had to fill in the rack number and position. We simply numbered every 1u space in the rack, so most racks had 40 positions. They were named for the top most U occupied.

        I also generated a simple HTML page, with an empty rack as placeholder images. Known machine types (like Dells matching a model) were used for known equipment. Some white box machines got a generic image. KVMs, network switches, remote PDU all got their appropriate images. Overlaid over the images were the hostname and primary IP that we had stored in the database.

        Generally, the unique identifier for the machines was the MAC address for the first network card. We used the on-board network interfaces, and sometimes some add-ons. Using that first MAC let us keep a positive ID on the unit. If, for example, a machine was replaced with a new machine, there was a new record. The old machine was marked appropriately (discarded, or with its new designation).

        Information in the network switch (MAC/CAM info) was used to determine what was plugged in where. MAC addresses were simplified to only hexadecimal. : and - marks were removed, so we had a consistent way of reading it. We filled in : every two digits to make it readable on the displayed version.

        All in all, it's a day of programming to make the interface to edit the records by hand if necessary. It took a little while to get all the information updated. Every time someone went to a remote datacenter, they checked the list. There were crashed machines (power off, wasting space) that needed to be added. They also were to note the precise position, if a machine had been moved. They also had to determine where power was plugged in.

        It was very helpful to determine if we could put more machines in a rack, without someone physically inspecting the site. We were able to ship equipment to sites, and have a local tech install it. "Put it above the machine labeled XYZ, plug in the network in ports 3,4. Plug in the power on PDU ## in position 4." We'd update our database to reflect that, and verify next time we had a staff member go to the site.

        Staff were always sent out with label printers, in case a label was wrong. When we started doing it, there was a *lot* of information that was wrong. Machines had been reassigned over the years. and never got new stickers. Once we had the DB 90% right, it was easy to make the rest of the information correct.

    --
    Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
  72. Gestio is made to get rid of spreadsheets by bart_smit · · Score: 1

    http://www.gestioip.net/ LAMP based IPAM application

  73. Spiceworks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A lot of network admins use the (free) tool Spiceworks. It does both hardware & software inventory with automated scans & network health checks. I manage 80+ devices on my network and Spiceworks has made that a LOT easier than a spreadsheet.

  74. Re: Logon scripts + ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a network admin, logon scripts come to mind... they allow computers to be logged... throw in a network scan for devices (printers, cameras, routers) and you should have a good idea where everything is looking

    As a SharePoint developer, SP would be an easy answer, as it supports relational data, versioning, and accessible APIs... but you could easily use any simple database, web/wcf/json service.

    Just pick a backend data store that's easily accessible via whatever scripting language(s) you're working with; remember, this is JUST the data store; the real value is provided by the scripts which provide quick updates

  75. CMDB by Hyperhaplo · · Score: 1

    Google for Configuration Management Database software / solutions. Most corporate tools come with a sniffer / loader utiliy to scan the network, hook in or plug into servers and devices and update the CMDB in relative real time.

    If you have no idea, start with the wikipedia article on CMDB: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMDB

    A configuration management database (CMDB) is a repository of information related to all the components of an information system. It contains the details of the configuration items (CI) in the IT infrastructure. Although repositories similar to CMDBs have been used by IT departments for many years, the term CMDB stems from ITIL. In the ITIL context, a CMDB represents the authorized configuration of the significant components of the IT environment. A CMDB helps an organization understand the relationships between these components and track their configuration. The CMDB is a fundamental component of the ITIL framework's Configuration Management process. CMDB implementations often involve federation, the inclusion of data into the CMDB from other sources, such as Asset Management, in such a way that the source of the data retains control of the data. Federation is usually distinguished from Extract, transform, load (ETL) solutions in which data is copied into the CMDB.

    Also have a look at what a configuration item is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Configuration_item

    Have a play around with a free CMDB product if you like. OneCMDB is easy to get, setup and experiment with - http://www.onecmdb.org/

    Major IT software vendors sell CMDB software, in the case of CA and HP it is part for their ITIL / ITSM tool - eg, http://www.ca.com/in/cmdb.aspx

    With CMDB software I look for the following features: 1) Web interface, 2) Ability to easily load / unload / update data to the CMDB, 3) Ability to grant different levels of user admin, update and read access to the CMDB (preferably via web interface), 4) Tool to scan the network, determine or extract information, and upload the CMDB CIs (server names, server IP, hard drive space, physical ram, etc etc), 5) Ability to define users as CIs

    A CMDB can relate configuration items in terms of how they relate to each other. Very useful in problem and incident management.

    Quick overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITIL#Service_asset_and_configuration_management

    Places like http://cmtf.com/ offer formal training and certification for Configuration Management. Does not cover specific product, but the theory of CM.

    --
    You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
  76. Stop inflicting SharePoint on the world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just because you are on Windows does not excuse inflecting sharepoint on users or administrators.

    May as well install Confluence or Mediawiki or Drupal in preference to sharepoint. Either or can do the same job as Sharepoint in the content described by the OP

    And yes, I have admined Sharepoint, Confluence and Mediawiki. I would suggest Confluence in this case,

  77. Nuke it all from orbit by unitron · · Score: 1

    Then rebuild from scratch.

    Only way to be sure.

    --

    I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  78. NetDisco (free) or Observium (free) by charnov · · Score: 1

    Two network discovery and self documenting systems. NetDisco is (if you can set it up) fantastic for tracking changes made per port.
    http://www.netdisco.org/
    http://www.observium.org/wiki/Main_Page

    --
    [RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
  79. NMAP Anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just to add a little; in terms of network visibility. NMAP (http://nmap.org/) can be of great assistance in identifying network components that may be hidden away or forgotten. A document is only as good as the data it shows.

  80. You will never succeed. by xdroop · · Score: 1

    Been there. Done that. Failed repeatedly, and for various interesting reasons, none of which are generalizable.

    Your problem has several aspects to it, and as far as I can nobody's talked about them. Lots of the answers talk about specific parts of the problem but not in a general way.

    Here's your problem:

    • Figure out what you have: this is a basic inventory.
    • Figure out how it is connected together: this is a wiring table. Some people will tell you that a wiring diagram is good enough, but after a certain point you can't use them because they get too big and the layout problems start to get non-trivial. So you need a table. Which means you need a way to identify each wire. At both ends. Uniquely. Accurately.
    • Figure out how to store it all. Visio for simple, high-architecture diagrams, yes. We use Sharepoint and custom tables for the actual device and wiring tables, but Excel will do. There's a whole essay that could be written on this (and I feel like I've written parts of it repeatedly) but the #1 aspect to this issue is that WHATEVER YOU PICK HAS TO BE SIMPLE AND STAY OUT OF PEOPLE'S WAY OR THEY WON'T USE IT. You have to make it trivial to keep the data up to date. You have to somehow make it harder to not do the wrong thing -- but since the wrong thing is to ignore the documentation and just slap your wire in there, that's impossible. Which means you need:
    • A way to detect changes that are made without authorization. I have a home grown collection of tools (rancid, nagios, arpwatch) and scripts that detect most of the day-to-day possible changes that happen on my particular network. I like the idea of NetDisco but have never achieved a working instance. The problem is that while detecting adds and moves is easy (because a move appears as an add) detecting decommissioning is hard. So the documentation rots. So you need:
    • Tools that can detect the current state of the network. One of my copious-spare-time project (for the last ten years *sob*) has been writing a perl script that can query my snmp switches and tell me what port a particular MAC address is connected to, right now. I can't tell you how many times that script has saved hours of f---ing around at various places. But you need SNMP-manageable gear for something like that to work. So you need:
    • Management that will support you in this endeavor. Management that will spend the extra bucks to ensure that equiptment can be monitored for changes by external systems. Management that understands that documentation needs periodic auditing and that the crazy guy ranting about unauthorized changes has been empowered by management to enforce documentation about these changes. (Which is hard when its your boss making the changes.)

    Frankly the last issue is the most important. If you can get management to sign off on spending money (and really, your time is their money) then you are 50% of the way home. If you get sandbagged halfway through when you discover you need to unplug three linksys switches that happen to form the iSCSI core network that will take the world offline for six hours to sort out a spanning-tree loop, then you'll have other problems. But the technical ones are easy to sort out once management has committed to spending time and money to solve them.

    --
    you should read everything on the internet as if it had "but I'm probably talking out of my ass" appended to it.