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Why Amazon Wants To Pay Sales Tax

Maximum Prophet writes "A while ago, Amazon caved on paying individual states sales taxes. Now we know why. Amazon is setting up same-day delivery warehouses everywhere. They will put most normal retailers out of business." If that's a bet, I'll take it.

17 of 647 comments (clear)

  1. Good. by couchslug · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Driving to brick-and-mortar stores is an expensive time-waster. The more online choices I have the better.

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    1. Re:Good. by quintus_horatius · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oddly enough, more and more online retailers are selling through Amazon. And many businesses, including online retail, are running their infrastructure in clouds, often serviced by (you guessed it) Amazon. If you thought Wal-Mart had a wide grip, you ain't seen nothing yet.

  2. be careful what you wish for by iveygman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Local retailers (and apparently Walmart, too) were the leading forces in pushing such legislature through in many states. They obviously (and rightfully) fear that Amazon could completely destroy them. This legislation, they thought, would force Amazon to compete with them on an even playing field. Except the playing field was never even to begin with. Even if you force them to abide by the x% sales tax rule, they still completely dominate you in terms of convenience, selection, sheer operations efficiency and economies of scale. Only Walmart could really hold a candle to them. This is going to blow up in the brick-and-mortar retailers' faces and they'll have nobody to blame but themselves for their downfall.

    1. Re:be careful what you wish for by twistedcubic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Amazon likely would explore this possibility regardless of the sales tax issue. It's not anyone's "fault".

    2. Re:be careful what you wish for by evilviper · · Score: 5, Insightful

      , they still completely dominate you in terms of convenience, selection, sheer operations efficiency and economies of scale. Only Walmart could really hold a candle to them.

      I shop Amazon.com quite a bit, but honestly, the shopping experience sucks. I pretty much have to shop other websites to find the product I want, and then I might visit amazon.com and search for the exact product to look at reviews, and/or see if I can get it cheaper than elsewhere. If Google Product Search ceases to include amazon.com, I'll probably never buy anything there ever again, and be perfectly happy about it.

      Trying to FIND what you want on amazon.com is a nightmare. A flood of irrelevant results, a "sort by" drop-box which just as often scrambles the results (try a big search, then sorting by price, and tell me you don't find several that are out-of-sequence), no connection between an item and related items or accessories, except for the few, fairly random "most people buy..." results on a page. etc., etc.

      Walmart gives you a much easier website to navigate, with consistent and proper metadata on each and every item, proper categorization, related products, etc.

      Walmart.com has a smaller selection, but that is actually a GOOD THING because you have less crap to wade through, and yet Walmart tries to serve everyone, so they always have at least one item from every possible product category.

      What's more, walmart's physical location advantage is huge... For YEARS, I couldn't have any products shipped to me, because I was living alone, working the same hours they delivered and that their officese were open, not to mention their nearest center being a crazy distance away, in horrible traffic. When shipping just doesn't work, store-pickup is an acceptable option, that Amazon can't offer without B&M stores in every city. Even their lock-box idea isn't going to suit large items, or save them money on shipping.

      Don't think I'm endorsing walmart, I'm just using them as the example of the polar opposite of amazon, and pointing out where amazon's flaws become huge disadvantages... A few years ago, I wouldn't be caught dead in a Walmart store. But as other retailers have actually conceded the fight (Ever gone into a Target to find they don't have ANY men's shoes? Ever gone into a pet store to find they don't have ANY flea collars?), and are perfectly happy to REQUIRE their customers to shop at walmart because the margins on many items their customers will need just aren't big enough, or the merchandise doesn't sell quickly enough, I've found myself with no other choice, and have only begrudgingly made peace with buying from Walmart, and happily stop buying from many other B&M's who apparently don't care about their customers...

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  3. Jobs by Eyezen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First manufacturing was destroyed, and the economy is still barely adjusting. Now retail is being threatened. Whats left for 300 million people to do? Interesting times indeed.

    1. Re:Jobs by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      First manufacturing was destroyed, and the economy is still barely adjusting.

      Manufacturing was not destroyed. We (USA) manufacture as much as we ever did. It is just that manufacturing is much more automated today, so manufacturing employment is down.

      Whats left for 300 million people to do?

      They could spend their time reading about economic fallacies. Prosperity and economic growth come from more efficient production of goods and services. Not from "keeping people busy."

      Interesting times indeed.

      Seems more like a slightly interesting continuation of a process that started with the invention of agriculture (destroying hunter-gather jobs).

  4. Re:Great by mr1911 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah, let's let Amazon get a monopoly so they can jack up prices. Or do you morons actually think they'll keep their prices so low after running out of business the alternatives?

    You seem to think that once a business gets to the top of their space and starts acting stupid no one knocks them off. You seem oblivious that Sears used to be the retail giant with stores everywhere that couldn't be topped.

    As long as Amazon is doing it better then I am all for them expanding.

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  5. Wal-Mart Competition? by Necron69 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If there is a king of efficiency and lost cost in distribution and retail sales, it is Wal-Mart. You don't think they are just going to sit there and do nothing while Amazon moves in, do you?

    Necron69

  6. Get back to work producing by pubwvj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Perhaps what we need is for people to get back in the business of producing. Our family business maximizes vertical integration and just-in-time manufacturing to make it so we control our process, product and profits. We do work with retailers and they take about a 50% cut. To make it we have to make sure that we keep as much as possible of that other 50%. Unlike many businesses, our family actually does the work. We farm. We turn sunlight into food.

  7. Amazon isn't going to PAY sales tax by mbaGeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    it is worth pointing out that Amazon will start COLLECTING sales tax not PAYING sales tax. The consumer is the one who will PAY the tax.

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  8. Re:would i rather by Stormthirst · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I love how the Americans always blame their government rather than the obvious flaws in their economic system

  9. Re:would i rather by trout007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'll explain our current situation. After y2k and 9/11 those in power were scared we were going into recession. They were right we were. It is to be expected when you are facing an unknown threat. The correct course would have been for people to reduce debt and start saving to prepare for the worse. This naturally shifts production from long term capital goods to near term consumer goods. But the Federal Reserve wouldn't allow it. They pumped out the money like no tomorrow. This sends a false signal that people are thinking long term and it's time to build capacity. When businesses calculate if a long term project it worthwhile a major factor is what is the interest rate and expected inflation. At first both rates are low. Hence the housing boom and outsourcing to ramp up capacity. Now eventually prices rise due to all of this new money floating around chasing the same amount of resources Oil, Gold, Housing, ect. As prices rise all of those inflation numbers that people used in their calculations eat away the justification for increasing capacity. Then you get the crash as all of this projects are abandoned and the misallocation of resources and labor are exposed. The only solution is to let it work itself out. The market had a signal for a long time that more houses were needed because people were paying record amounts for them. If the easy credit wasn't there it would have been a good signal. But as it turns out all of the labor and material put into housing was a waste. Now you have to let the price of houses crash to where the market will support. All of those people that were employed by housing construction have to find new productive lines of work.

    Let me know if this is making sense and I'll keep writing.

    --
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  10. Re:would i rather by I_am_Jack · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not for my lack of understanding why it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense because your argument is based on a very subjective and factually inaccurate view of recent history. One of the tenets of Keynesian economics that is sound is not to adopt austerity measures in the face of recession or depression. The time for austerity is when the economy is strong, and there are the tax receipts and free-flow of capital to pay down the debt assumed to spend your way out of a recession (and that's the only way out of a recession; it's what Clinton did to get us out of the recession of 1990-94, and then used the late 90's boom to pay down debt and balance the budget). The reason we've gone into double-dip now is because of this misplaced (and frankly mind-boggling) belief that after a decade of deficit spending while consistently reducing income, we can some how entice those who hold a record amount of capital back into spending by not priming the pump through government incentives. When the private sector is not spending, and people are out of work and not spending, who else is going to spend? The economy we've built is dependent upon consistent expansion and growth. When you have neither, you have nothing. This is not complicated math here. The fact there there seems to be a large segment of the population willingly suspending disbelief about conservative economic initiatives and principles is clear indication why we're going down in flames. If you're a student of history, you can why we are where we are now because a Republican-controlled congress made the same kind of demands on FDR, and if it weren't for the eventual wartime debt and spending, would have plunged us into a second great depression. Yet when you have a propaganda machine pumping out misinformation about what is really happening in the market place, it's going to remain this way until it either collapses or people finally question why we've built a corporate welfare state that pays to ensure it's participants can continue to game the system.

    Explain to me using your logical model of economics why it made good economic sense for Barclays to manipulate LIBOR?

  11. Re:would i rather by Darinbob · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Historically monopolies have formed and thrived when governments did not stop them. The free market forces do not prevent monopolies from forming.

  12. Re:would i rather by DinDaddy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So why doesn't he buy his hooks at Walmart?

  13. Did you read your own link? by jeko · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From the Wikipedia article you linked to:

    "The Luddites were a social movement of 19th-century English textile artisans who protested ... replaced ... with less-skilled, low-wage labour, leaving them without work and changing their way of life (See "Dickens, Charles" for what life without work was like in 19th Century England)

    Battles between Luddites and the military occurred at Burton's Mill in Middleton, and at Westhoughton Mill, both in Lancashire. It was rumoured at the time that agents provocateurs employed by the magistrates were involved in provoking the attacks. (Sound familiar?) ...and the present action had to be seen in the context of the hardships suffered by the working class during the Napoleonic Wars.

    "Machine breaking" (industrial sabotage) was subsequently made a capital crime (Breaking a loom meriting a death sentence?!) by the Frame Breaking Act, 52 Geo. 3, c. 16[9] and the Malicious Damage Act of 1812, 52 Geo. 3, c. 130[10] – legislation which was opposed by Lord Byron, one of the few prominent defenders of the Luddites – and 17 men were executed after an 1813 trial in York. Many others were transported as prisoners to Australia. At one time, there were more British soldiers fighting the Luddites than Napoleon I on the Iberian Peninsula.

    Hmm, a social movement protesting societal changes which left many to starve in the streets. This movement was met with ridiculously Draconian responses including executions and exile to Australia, and repressed with the use of more military troops against their own civilian population than were devoted to stopping Napoleon. The Draconian legal responses seem to have been specifically drafted to please wealthy company owners.

    You know, I think you've got it exactly right. I think the Luddites have a lot to teach us about the times we live in.

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