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Judge In Kim Dotcom Extradition Case Steps Down

First time accepted submitter Kalriath writes "After calling the United States 'the enemy' at the NetHui conference last week (reported on Slashdot), Judge David Harvey has stepped down from the Dotcom case citing beliefs that the comments could reflect on his impartiality. From the New Zealand Herald: 'An Internet law expert, Judge Harvey had been considered the perfect choice to hear arguments on whether Dotcom and his Megaupload colleagues should be extradited by the United States to face charges of criminal copyright violation. The district court's chief judge Jan-Marie Doogue said Judge Harvey had made the decision to step down from hearing the case. "He recognizes that remarks made in the context of a paper he delivered on copyright law at a recent Internet conference could reflect on his impartiality and that the appropriate response is for him to step down from the case."'"

40 of 132 comments (clear)

  1. Translation: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The US bribed someone to get him out of the way so they can get a more acquiescent judge who won't give a damn about what the law says and about all the laws the FBI violated in either country.

    1. Re:Translation: by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The US bribed someone to get him out of the way so they can get a more acquiescent judge who won't give a damn about what the law says and about all the laws the FBI violated in either country.

      Probably the music industry bribed someone.

    2. Re:Translation: by blibbler · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I think you need to get a bit of fresh air. New Zealand consistently ranks at or near the top of the least corrupt countries in the world. http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/ While countries like the US and Iran may have court systems that regularly make decisions for political reasons, that is not the case in most of the developed world. Just because you don't like the decision, doesn't mean it is corruption.

    3. Re:Translation: by 91degrees · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or maybe he stepped down because he believed that given his comments, one might reasonably question his impartiality in this case.

      Personally, while I agreed with him, I was amazed to read he actually said that.

    4. Re:Translation: by tommasorepetti · · Score: 2

      Who did they bribe? The judge himself? If a judge in a criminal case (which this is) for any other crime calls the prosecutor "the enemy" in public speech, he or she will have to step down. To do otherwise would make a mockery of the judicial system they allegedly represent. The judiciary might have encouraged this, but only to avoid embarrassing themselves. It was his call essentially to announce public that he had already made up his mind about the case. The judge often makes this sort of decision publicly, but it tends to be called a verdict.

    5. Re:Translation: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Probably not. He seems like the kind of guy who knows the truth and does the right thing, but by doing so leaves the decisions to others, who are less honorable.

      "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke

    6. Re:Translation: by T+Murphy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      +5 Insightful for a conspiracy theory that doesn't even make sense? Seriously?

      I guess when a judge is biased in a way we don't like (i.e. the Pirate Bay trial) he's terrible and should be removed from the case, but when he's biased in a favorable way he's the best one for the case? Also, if this judge is so awesome, why can he be bribed? If he can be bribed, why doesn't the US just have him rule in their favor, rather than make him step down so another judge can be bribed for the ruling?

      The simple answer is he's as good of a judge as we hoped, but as any good judge would do, he recognizes his bias. Maybe he has enough faith in the other judges that he feels that the case would go better with someone else, as opposed to him staying on the case and giving the US a strong case for a successful appeal.

    7. Re:Translation: by dunkelfalke · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Or maybe the judge just didn't like the case much - maybe because Kim Schmitz is a crook but has to be acquitted anyway - so the judge used this loophole intentionally to remove himself from the case.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    8. Re:Translation: by sed+quid+in+infernos · · Score: 3, Informative

      You site the CPI, so I assume you think it's 9.5 rating of New Zealand is probative of something. Yet, in the same post, you place Iran (CPI of 2.7) and the U.S. (CPI of 7.1) in the same category of corruption. In fact, the U.S. is within a point of much of the developed world" (all but 13 countries).

    9. Re:Translation: by caitsith01 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The US bribed someone to get him out of the way so they can get a more acquiescent judge who won't give a damn about what the law says and about all the laws the FBI violated in either country.

      I know it's not something you're used to, assuming you're a US citizen, but it's actually just that NZ is a country where the rule of law operates, and this is an example of the system properly and impartially dealing with the issue. Judges in NZ (and Australia... and Britain) aren't elected and, by US standards, are not beholden to party politics. Furthermore, except in exceptional circumstances, no bureaucrat has the power to prevent a judge from hearing a matter.

      Had he not recused himself, there would have been a risk of a successful appeal on the basis of bias.

      Of course if the same judge had made a speech talking about how the US is New Zealand's best friend when it comes to intellectual property issues, you'd be squealing about his bias.

      --
      Read Pynchon.
    10. Re:Translation: by Xest · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So does Sweden, but when a judge which was part of a music industry lobby group presided over The Pirate Bay trial it was whitewashed as no conflict of interest.

      Whilst I agree that thereotically this is the correct outcome in this case, it does irk me somewhat that this sort of thing only turns out the way vested interests would like it to turn out, rather than necessarily how it should turn out if things were done right.

      I'm not sure if New Zealand being at the top of the transparency index given the whole MegaUpload debacle tells me that the transparency index is full of crap, or simply that the standard of transparency required to be the most transparent country in the world is a pretty depressingly low bar to reach.

      I think it's naive to beleive that simply because New Zealand, Sweden et al. are towards the top of this arbitrary index that there is no corruption involved.

      The fact that my own country, the UK is perceived as pretty "clean" is a little worrying given that politicians have been lying to our faces, and we know they've been lying to our faces for sometime says a lot. Between the last government with David Miliband standing up in front of the cameras telling us the UK had nothing to do with torture when we know fucking well it did, a fact which is now proven, and Jeremy Hunt under this government telling us he was innocent of wrong doing when we all know fucking well he wasn't because the evidence is sat there right in front of us proving otherwise I don't know how we can even come close to scoring a 7.8. Christ, the Tory treasurer was filmed saying it would only cost £250,000 to basically dictate to government what you wanted policy on certain issues to be.

  2. And in his place.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How much do you want to bet a judge who just "happens" to have a history of going harder on extradition cases, and just "happens" to have little to no experience, professionally or personally, using any technology developed after 1985?

  3. The perfect guy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    His gesture of stepping down marks him exactly as the perfect one to judge the case as he is showing his ability to be self conscious of his own bias and manage it properly

    1. Re:The perfect guy by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except that he's not biased. His statement that the US is the enemy when it comes to copyright law is completely accurate. Anyone who thinks the US isn't the enemy is biased in favor of the US and the copyright maximalists who run it.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:The perfect guy by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He absolutely is, which is why he should have shut the fuck up about her personal opinions.

      To the folk saying someone was "bought" to get this guy out; Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    3. Re:The perfect guy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The perfect copyright law is a matter of opinion. You and I happen to share the same opinion, but that doesn't make it any less subjective. If you hold an opinion so strongly that you refer to people who don't share your opinion as "the enemy," then that's a strong indicator of bias: an unwillingness (or even inability) to fairly consider contrary opinions. Fairly considering contrary opinions is a prerequisite for being a judge.

      I suspect that when he described the US as "the enemy" he was just engaging in a bit of harmless rhetoric. He probably could have been as impartial as anyone else. As the parent said, he probably could have done better than most others. But, unfortunately, we can't measure impartiality objectively, so we tend to err on the side of caution and strive to avoid even the appearance of bias.

    4. Re:The perfect guy by Kokuyo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That is a nice saying but in the real world, when it comes to rotten situations it might just as well be that it's either stupidity or malice, neither or even both.

      Never discount any possibility without ample reason.

    5. Re:The perfect guy by Hatta · · Score: 3

      Fairly considering contrary opinions is a prerequisite for being a judge.

      Yes, and when the contrary opinion has been fairly considered and found to be harmful, one can say so without impugning their impartiality. You have the same wishy-washy notion of impartiality that has infected journalism. Sometimes one side is right, and it's not wrong to say so.

      If you want competence from your judges you have to understand that they bring experience to the table. That experience is valuable. Anyone who hasn't concluded that the US is the enemy of good copyright policy is frankly too ignorant to conduct a fair trial.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    6. Re:The perfect guy by tnk1 · · Score: 2

      Judges know that they can't have even the appearance of bias. He made a professional mistake and he's not taking the case due to it. The continued use of the courts is the perception, no matter how flawed, that the court will rule based on the law and not make its own laws up because it doesn't like them. Even when it is ruling a law unconstitutional, it is merely a statement that the overturned law is not valid against the "higher" law.

      Judges don't get to "fairly consider" opinions. That is the job of the legislature. If the law required the defendant to sacrifice kittens to Baal or be locked up, as a judge I'd have to consider that offense as if I didn't think it was a horrible law. My choices would be to either step down from the bench or hear the case and sentence him to jail if he was guilty of not killing kittens. Any other option is me not doing my job as a judge.

    7. Re:The perfect guy by Tom · · Score: 2

      He absolutely is, which is why he should have shut the fuck up about her personal opinions.

      You can't seriously ask experts on a topic to shut up about it, it would be a loss for all of us.

      In the greater picture, the interview might be many times more influential and important than the one case that will now be judged by someone else.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  4. And the difference is? by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And the difference between the two is?

    The surprising thing about US politicians is not that they can be bought, but how cheaply this can be done. The movies have suitcases full, the average senator goes for a few thousand.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:And the difference is? by jythie · · Score: 2

      Yeah, but they only offer those discounts to lobbies they know are already powerful. Go in there with a few kilobucks as a nobody and their prices skyrocket.

    2. Re:And the difference is? by Chrisq · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There are lots of non competing interests. They can sell out 1000 times. 10 thousand X 1000 = 10 million.

      I remember reading about a British MP who took money to promote a local business. One of his pleas for mitigation was that part of his job was to promote local businesses, and would have done so if simply asked to anyway!

    3. Re:And the difference is? by Tom · · Score: 2

      Parent is correct, unfortunately.

      Bribery scandals in the western world regularily astonish people in the 3rd world - not for the fact that the west is corrupt, too, but because you can buy a senator or other high-ranking officials for sums that anyone of any importance in, say, Africa, would laugh about.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  5. Re:Judge Harvey by ciderbrew · · Score: 2

    Yes, it has been good reading this story. Maybe there should be more news about good Judges.

  6. What quoting a cartoon will get you. by mbone · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The judge was of course riffing on "We have met the enemy, and he is us." (Pogo, 1970).

    It was a fairly good joke, for judge, but I guess more humor than the NZ judicial system could bear.

  7. Impartial, or knowledgeable ? by Jesrad · · Score: 4, Insightful

    remarks made in the context of a paper he delivered on copyright law at a recent Internet conference could reflect on his impartiality

    Does that really make him impartial, or does that show he is knowledgeable enough about the subject at hand to properly motivate any decision of his ? A clueless judge would only be a better option only for the prosecution alone. Having an informed opinion about copyright law and its potential international abuses is a sign of someone who knows what is going on and what matters.

    --
    Maybe we deserve this world ?
    1. Re:Impartial, or knowledgeable ? by Tom · · Score: 2

      Yes, except when someone whom you spoke out against is party - directly or indirectly - to a court case you are presiding over.

      Recusing himself was absolutely the right thing to do, and a good show of integrity.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  8. Re:threatened? by drinkydoh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, he made the right decision right? I don't get why so many people on slashdot is saying it's the wrong decision. If this was judge who commented against dotcom in similar way Slashdot would be outraged if he didn't step down.

  9. The case, not the bench by Triv · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The judge recused himself. He didn't step down. It might be a difference in international terminology, but I saw the headline and assumed the judge had left his position as a judge.

  10. Re:threatened? by krept · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not quite sure why you lost mod points here. For once we read about a judge doing the ethical thing, just very unfortunate that it is our loss. We can't win huh.

    --
    None of us know everything. Therefore we're all naïve.
  11. Ethics by Picass0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Judge Harvey's ethical breach was in commenting on subject matter closely related to a pending case. How did he think giving an interview was even remotely proper?

    1. Re:Ethics by nospam007 · · Score: 2

      "Let me ask you a question. Do you think that judges who declare that copyright is a good idea should be recused?"

      No, only those who ever sang 'Happy Birthday" in a restaurant, showed a DVD to the neighbors' kids during a party, made a mixed CD for their girlfriend or photocopied some law articles without the authorization of the author.

  12. Enemy is a very strong word to throw around by jmorris42 · · Score: 2

    I would like to think that is why it happened. Either he realized it on his own or some other fellow judges took him aside and 'explained' it to him. You can't throw out words like 'enemy' and still pretend to be impartial.

    For example, at present I can only think of a couple of opponents that would rise to the level of 'enemy' for the US. New Zealand most certainly does not. And anyone there who sees the US as an enemy isn't just wrong, they are insane.

    At present our enemy list has approximatly two entries:

    1. Al Qaeda & the taliban. They are in an active war against us here, in Afganistan and elsewhere. An enemy.

    2. North Korea. Since a formal end of the Korean War has yet to be concluded we are all (remember that it was basically the UN vs North Korea) formally 'at war' with the Norks so they qualify as an enemy.

    Other than those we have many countries/entities we are in disputes with, some might advance to enemy/war but they might not. Iran comes to mind. China is a rival but we all pray things never deteriorate to the point where words like 'enemy' make sense because that is a future we don't want to see. Russia is one to watch and worry about our relationship with, but since the fall of the Soviet Union we don't have an enemy in that part of the world.

    --
    Democrat delenda est
    1. Re:Enemy is a very strong word to throw around by Opyros · · Score: 2

      It's a strong word if you use it literally. But he wasn't doing so; he was riffing on a famous Pogo quote, and I imagine that was the only reason he used the word "enemy" at all.

  13. Re:threatened? by oldmac31310 · · Score: 2

    But isn't it likely that he will just be replaced by a judge with less of a sense of ethics and possibly a bias in the other direction? Would that be better? Hardly.

    --
    http://www.acetonestudio.com
  14. They can have any opinion they want by Picass0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They're human and they have a right to free speech and expression - outside the court. The problem here is discussion of issues relating to a case that will be heard in Judge Harvey's courtroom. These aren't comments he made years ago and just now he's being reminded. Harvey saw he was having his fifteen minutes and couldn't keep his mouth shut. He either had to recuse himself or he laid the groundwork for an eventual appeals process.

  15. Is is just me? by camperdave · · Score: 2

    Is it just me, or does anyone else think of this when they hear the name Kim Dotcom?

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  16. Re:threatened? by Scragglykat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem being, a good judge will step down for something like this, but a bad judge will most likely take his/her place.

  17. Re:threatened? by interkin3tic · · Score: 2

    I think I'm in the minority here, but I don't want or need people whose interests align with me to "fight the good fight." I want the representatives that I vote for (as opposed to the ones sponsored by interests opposed to mine) to just win, I want consumer interests to just win, I want proponents of things like ending software patents or increasing government transparency to just win.

    When your side is playing the game fair and the other side isn't, that becomes frustrating quickly. And it's not like the integrity of the court system is endangered here by the judge staying on. We already have judges who fail to recuse themselves when they should, and most often against our interests.

    Fuck ethics. The corrupt side certainly does already.