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Subcontractor Tells Fukushima Workers To Hide Radiation Exposure

First time accepted submitter fredprado writes "Apparently at least one subcontractor hired to clean up the Fukushima site has been urging their workers to put their radiation detectors lined under lead shieldings. A diagram can be seen here. The authorities decided not to prosecute him, even after one employee presenting them recordings of him trying to talk the said employee into it."

66 of 439 comments (clear)

  1. seems fine to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    makes sense; those things are probably expensive and, I gather, are sensitive to radiation. Don't want to risk damaging them.

    1. Re:seems fine to me by msauve · · Score: 5, Funny

      By similar logic, people should drive at night with their headlights off. If they can't be seen, it makes it harder for other drivers to hit them.

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    2. Re:seems fine to me by sco08y · · Score: 2

      By similar logic, people should drive at night with their headlights off. If they can't be seen, it makes it harder for other drivers to hit them.

      That's good advice in some places.

    3. Re:seems fine to me by ozmanjusri · · Score: 2

      Don't want to risk damaging them.

      Of course. Much better to damage cheaper, more expendable, replaceable components.

      And of course, it's much better to talk about this detector issue than the 36 percent Of Fukushima kids who have abnormal thyroid growths. We don't want people to think there may be negative consequences to nuclear power.

      1. "It is extremely rare to find cysts and thyroid nodules in children."

      2. "This is an extremely large number of abnormalities to find in children."

      3. "You would not expect abnormalities to appear so early — within the first year or so — therefore one can assume that they must have received a high dose of [radiation]."

      4. "It is impossible to know, from what [officials in Japan] are saying, what these lesions are."

      Dr. Helen Caldicott, pediatrician, about the implications of the study.

      http://www.businessinsider.com/fukushima-children-have-abnormal-thyroid-growths-2012-7

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    4. Re:seems fine to me by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Funny

      By similar logic, people should drive at night with their headlights off. If they can't be seen, it makes it harder for other drivers to hit them.

      Right. I think you're catching on. An extra advantage is, when your lights are on, the light going out pushes your car backwards. That's alright if you want it, but if you turn off your lights, you can literally save gas. And gas is our most valuable natural resource.

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    5. Re:seems fine to me by mcgrew · · Score: 2

      Probably Springfield, capital of Illinois. People drive stupidly here. There's a local joke about a man from New York visiting Chicago. The New Yorker gets in a cab, and the cab driver promptly runs a red light.

      "You ran a red light!"

      "It's ok, I'm from Springfield!" A mile down the road and he runs another. "YOU RAN ANOTHR ONE!!!" the excited passenger exclaims.

      "Don't worry, I'm from Springfield".

      The next light is green, and the cab driver slams on the brakes. "WTF did you do that for???" the passenger asks.

      "My brother's in town. He's from Springfield, too."

  2. This is why we need more unions and more workers r by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is why we need more unions and more workers rights.

    and they should be able to use contractors and subcontractors to get out being liable.

  3. That Poster... by newcastlejon · · Score: 2

    Is there a translation? This is quite a serious allegation if true.

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    1. Re:That Poster... by mysidia · · Score: 2

      It's a serious allegation. And there's more coverage than one article in Japanese.

      However... I wonder how "effective" that little bit of lead shielding would actually be at "hiding" radiation exposure.

      A tiny little shielding that you can wear like that won't deflect a whole lot of certain kinds of radiation. If you have a dosimeter reading from behind the shielding, it's likely possible that officials will "correct" the reading, based on the radiation deflection characteristics of the shield, and the readings taken behind the shield, it will be possible to estimate the radiation dosage that occurs without the shielding.

      If a little bit of lead was that effective, the entire suit would be made out of the material.

      To deflect a whole lot of radiation, you need 1" or greater thickness, which would be totally impractical for a worker to wear, due to the excessive weight of the lead.

    2. Re:That Poster... by ChumpusRex2003 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The lead is likely very effective at reducing recorded exposure - probably cutting it by 75-90%. Most of the radiation in a typical fission product incident is beta radiation, which will be substantially attenuated by 1 mm of lead (the beta particles won't get through, but probably 1-2% of their energy may get through as bremmstrahlung X-rays). Gamma rays, will also be attenuated but only by a few % (high energy direct photons won't be significantly affected, but photons scattered from concrete, etc. will be of much lower energy, so will tend to be heavily attenuated).

      There are plenty of radiation suits that offer 0.1 or 0.2 mm lead equivalent protection (they don't usually contain lead for environmental reasons, bismuth is usually used instead). These are quite useful for protection against beta energy, even if they do nothing for gamma. However, the sheer weight of even a 0.2 mm lead suit makes it only barely practical (though I understand the US military have bought a lot of them).

      However, lead boots are a sensible precaution - most of the radiation in a Fukushima type incident is in the form of water soluble or suspended particles, which pool on the floor in puddles. Severe radiation injury to the feet from beta emitters is possible - 1mm lead equivalent rubber boots are tolerable to wear, and would offer substantial protection to the feet.

  4. Don't panic by arcite · · Score: 4, Funny

    Three eyed fish are delicious.

  5. one good result: by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Interesting

    the Japanese people will no longer blindly trust their government

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    1. Re:one good result: by circletimessquare · · Score: 5, Insightful

      it's ok to think the government would do a poor job at providing for our health

      but it's insane to think corporations would do a better job

      therefore, you choose government

      for example, those europeans with universal healthcare live longer than americans, and pay less for their healthcare

      because the american model is not about our health, it is about maximizing profit

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    2. Re:one good result: by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ask the working poor who can't afford health insurance how that private medicine thing is working out.

      There is nothing more evil or idiotic than blind ideology.

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    3. Re:one good result: by lessthan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because I have better things to be doing. (Like posting on Slashdot.) The problem with self-reliance is that it requires you to be an expert at everything you do. Not just proficient, but an expert. If the healthcare company includes a screw-you clause and you miss it, then you are screwed. Think of the Hurricane Katrina disaster. The insurance companies sold many people hurricane insurance. A lot of people lost their houses to the storm surge, which the insurance claimed was "flood damage" and, if you didn't have flood insurance, you were out of luck.

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    4. Re:one good result: by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, insurances can be tricky and sometimes companies find loopholes to screw you, but, on the other hand, governments are incapable of providing a service with similar or better quality in high population countries. The only countries where public health care really works are countries where the population is relatively small.

      This is manifestly false. As GP noted, all first world countries with public healthcare show better bang for the buck in that department than does US with its privatized healthcare model. This is regardless of whether they are countries of 3 million or 80 million.

    5. Re:one good result: by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      Again reality says otherwise. States do not have the same resources of the Union and lack its autonomy.

      And yet Canadian healthcare system was started by and is still managed by the provinces. Go ahead, look it up.

      Additionally states are forced to attend to any citizen of the union

      What made you believe that? The states can certainly restrict treatment to their citizens if need be.

      . Lets say a state manages to create a functional model of health care which is much better than the other states approach and actually works. People with serious issues would migrate to said state increasing the costs until the system would collapse.

      Again, Canada managed to do just that and survive. Saskatchewan was the first province to introduce universal healthcare, and it took 15 years for other provinces to catch up. But it turned out that once the first province was willing to run the experiment, and it proved to work, others had much more incentive to follow up.

      To avoid that specific laws would have to be created to force people to treat themselves in the State they reside and prevent them from moving in case they need some costly medical treatment.

      A far simpler arrangement would be for all states which do have universal public healthcare to form a single contiguous system whereby they do transfers and take care of each others' citizens as needed, but exclude citizens of states that do not participate. They wouldn't have to restrict moving - in most states, you have to establish residency therein to be considered a citizen, you can't just waltz in and expect to be treated as one right away.

    6. Re:one good result: by fredprado · · Score: 2

      Cadana has less than 35 million inhabitants with the resources of a continental country. UK, South Korea, France, Germany and Spain all have higher populations with far less resources.

      And yes, you can just waltz in and move to another State easily in any democratic country, and depending on the costs of the treatment it is far cheaper to rent an address in a relatively low cost area just to be treated in that state.

      You are trying to defend that something that has never been done, to achieve universal quality health care paid by the government in a country of populations in the order of several hundred million people, can be done. All I can say is that although I can't really prove that it is impossible it has never been done before. It works the other way around though, you can't really prove that it isn't just your wishful thinking speaking, and chances are it is.

      I am not a US citizen. I live in Brazil. We do have universal public health care, but the quality is beyond terrible. You either have a good health care plan, money to pay yourself for the treatments in good places, or you wait in line until you die. And before you say: "But Brazil is not a first world country", I would like to remind you that we have the 5th economy in the World, and we are about to pass France for the 4th place. Only Germany has a significant better GDP than we have in Europe.

    7. Re:one good result: by TheInternetGuy · · Score: 2

      It is pretty condescending of you to suggest they have been "blindly trusting" anyone up until now.

      And I am somewhat unclear on how the fact that a company forced its employees to lie and put them at risk is going to make them distrustful of the government?

      As someone who lives in Japan, I can truly say that at least up till 3/11 the Japanese majority was exactly blindly trusting the government. And the few that did not trust the government,did not care. This is all changing now. Well there are still many that don't care, but at least there are a good percentage of people really starting to questioning the system, ready to take the red pill and unplug.

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  6. You know... by ilsaloving · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You know, it would be a lot easier to refute anti nuclear fears as being overly paranoid if we stopped giving them reasons to be just that. The situation would be have been under much better control and (slightly) less of a PR disaster if they would just stop with the lies.

  7. Health effects in children by symbolset · · Score: 5, Informative

    Thyroid cysts or nodules are being found in 36% of 38,000 Fukushima children. A 2001 study in Nagasaki found an incidence of 0%. Thyroid is associated with iodine, as the substance is essential to its function. Iodine-131 was a considerable component of the contaminants released in the incident.

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    1. Re:Health effects in children by Psion · · Score: 3, Interesting
      That same article states:

      "Yes, 35.8 percent of children in the study have lumps or cysts, but this is not the same as cancer," said Naomi Takagi, an associate professor at Fukushima University Medical School Hospital, which administered the tests.

      "We do not know that cause of this, but it is hard to believe that is due to the effects of radiation," she said. "This is an early test and we will only see the effects of radiation exposure after four or five years."

    2. Re:Health effects in children by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Nice try trying to play that angle down by the professor there. I note she didn't seem to offer any alternative explanation.

      Virtually all the children living near Chernobyl had to have their thyroids removed. It is a known effect of getting radioactive iodine in the body, especially children's bodies. Fukushima put lots of iodine in the surrounding area. There is no other reasonable explanation.

      Apparently we underestimated the speed with which these cysts develop.

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    3. Re:Health effects in children by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      At this point it time, there is no study that "proves" cigarette smoke causes cancer in humans. So we should lift all rules imposed assuming as much until a causal link is proven, not just the strong correlation and proof in non-human creatures. After all, without *proof* lets act like the opposite is true, regardless of the likelihoods of each.

    4. Re:Health effects in children by Rakshasa-sensei · · Score: 2

      She doesn't have to. It's only been ~1 year since the incident and it relates to the release of iodine, which not only decays extremely rapidly but was counteracted quickly with the distribution of iodine tablets. Not only that, thyroid exams aren't exactly common anywhere. I imagine you'd see interesting things if you did similar examinations in random locations around the US.

      If there's an abnormal thyroid nodules and cysts that are not cancerous, one of the obvious first places to look is at the iodine tablets. It's not hard to imagine the parents being very diligent at administering those.

      So yeah, no need to panic just yet.

  8. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Um. No.

    Here's the nice thing about the free market. If you don't like something your employer tells you to do, you don't have to work for them. In fact, with a free enough society, you can tell others what your employer tried to tell you to do which will either:

    A) Cause the employer's customers not to support him and therefore he goes bust.

    B) Cause the employees to all quit their job or demand higher pay to work.

    C) Cause the employer to change his orders to prevent A or B from happening.

    Don't like being told to hide radiation exposure? Don't work for the guy!

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  9. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by jfengel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And how are they supposed to do that? Individual workers calling their Senators up on the phone, each one of them telling the Senator something slightly different from the last one? Senators don't take phone calls from workers. They take phone calls from executives.

    Actually, they don't take phone calls from either. They take phone calls from lobbyists, people with whom they have a relationship and who have worked with them before. Corporate management has plenty of money to hire them. Individual workers don't.

    They can, however, get together and pool their money to hire a lobbyist. We should make up a name for such a unified group of people.

  10. The authorities decided not to prosecute by cpu6502 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Government coverup. Just like they lied about how much radiation there really was. (Turns out they cut their readings by 1/3rd.) Or how the government claimed the air quality at the burning WTC wreckage was "safe" even though it wasn't. Governments don't protect the people; they lie, inveigle, and deny.

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  11. Doesn't work. by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Really. It doesn't. Globalism Breaks Capitalism. Period. It's that simple. You are completing on the global stage. Your employer is not. You can't win. You can't keep up. They will import desperate workers from impoverished countries. You will compete with them for food and shelter. Automation makes you disposable and obsolete. You can't work elsewhere, because there are very few jobs (automation) and there are lots of people to do those jobs (globalism).

    Free market Capitalism is fundamentally broken. Adam Smith wasn't a futurist. He had no vision. Ayn Rand was just a little woman afraid of a nasty dictator. Get over your fear, and learn to face facts. Adam couldn't, Ayn couldn't. Can you?

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    1. Re:Doesn't work. by rrohbeck · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Many people have recognized this.
      And many intellectuals have come to recognize Karl Marx as what he was: A great economist.

    2. Re:Doesn't work. by geoskd · · Score: 4, Informative

      No where in all that did I see any hint of a better idea.

      The root of our economic problem (as you hinted at, but stopped short of actually saying), is that our economy depends on balance. That balance is the level of production and the level of consumption being about equal. When Production becomes too great, companies cut back. When consumption becomes too great, shortages drive up costs and cause a bubble (which will burst). The basic trouble is that technology constantly drives increases in production, and decreases in overall consumption. (Greater production at lower cost, pushes wealth to the top, but the consumers have less money to buy things, so consumption actually is reduced. There are only two forces on earth that combat this trend, and restore balance to the economy, and one or both will result. The first is taxes. The best known way to get the wealth back from the top, and restore the consumption power it has, is to return it to the bottom by the way of social programs (health care, disability, welfare). The second way is revolution. With not enough taxes on the wealthy to counteract the concentrating effects of innovation, the concentration of wealth at the top unbalances the economy, causing rapid economic swings, volatile prices, and unemployment. If the process continues unchecked, the only logical result is revolution, and it is invariable, and inevitable.

      -=Geoskd

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    3. Re:Doesn't work. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Have to step in to defend Adam Smith here. He actually did see the problems that inevitably come with employers having more power than workers, and (as he did with everything) went on at some length about it. If half the people wearing Adam Smith ties had actually read The Wealth of Nations, they'd call him a commie.

    4. Re:Doesn't work. by sjames · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's worth noting that Smith strongly advocated market regulation. He warned that inadequate or incompetent regulation of the market would lead to exactly the sorts of problems we're having now. He further warned against anything like corporate personhood as that would remove moral thinking from economic decisions.

      The so-called proponents of Smith's Capitalism are VERY selective about which parts they implement and 100% of his warnings have fallen on deaf ears. They are just as bad as the fundamentalist Jihadists who like to skip over all the bits about not killing 'people of the book'.

    5. Re:Doesn't work. by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No. On the contrary. You need a government to tell COMPANIES what they can and cannot do.

      Governments are supposed to represent the citizens, therefore they should do whatever best helps their citizens.

      If that means companies have to comply to all kinds of rules and regulations then I see no problem in that. Companies wouldn't mind either, because they are not living things. Managers and shareholders might not like it, but they're citizens like everybody else, and their well-being is no less of more important than that of anybody else.

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    6. Re:Doesn't work. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      Raj deserves the job, but I also deserve to be able to buy all goods I need for myself at the same prices Raj does. Only then we are on equal footing with corporations.

      But if a corporation can outsource labor to Raj, paying him pennies, but then sell the products to me for First World prices, and pocket the difference? That's fucked up for both me and Raj, and it's not really a free market, either. And that's what globalization is in practice today.

    7. Re:Doesn't work. by fnj · · Score: 2

      Free market Capitalism is fundamentally broken.

      Nonsense. Free market Capitalism doesn't exist. Everything is tightly regulated.

      With all due respect, you ought to get your story straight. If it IS fundamentally broken, it's because of its own built-in failings, not because it is being distorted by government. That's pretty much by the definition of the terms of the argument. Otherwise, there is a problem with logic.

      If, on the other hand, it is NOT fundamentally broken, then you have to explain why it is not practiced in pure form in a single place in the entire world. Good luck with THAT.

      Claiming that the black market is a system in which everyone participating has an equal chance of cleaning up and becoming filthy rich (which incidentally means impoverishing others) is clearly mistaken. Raw, naked power and initial backing and resources rule [at LEAST] just as much in the black market as they do in the cozy corporate government corruptocracy we "enjoy" currently in the U.S., and China "enjoys" in slightly different form. At least the Chinese form is economically functional and actually seeks to better the condition of the people.

      I think some of the confusion here lies in the presumed conjunction of equivalencies and oppositions. [Real] socialism is not the opposite of capitalism; rather they are both variations of the same idea: dictation. Capitalism is absolutely not the same as free market. Capitalism confers privilege on those who own capital, and sees to it that the capital and its conferred privilege stays largely in the hands of the same class over time. A true free market strongly implies equal opportunity. But neither one has anything whatever to do with reward in proportion to sweat.

      Now, what the democratic socialists in Europe seek to do is leverage both socialism and capitalism, carefully moderating the excesses of both by allowing neither one free rein. I think the jury is still out on whether that approach could possibly work.

      What capitalism and socialism are both in direct opposition to, is distributism. Look up the term some time. You might find something that appeals to you. I know I did.

      The problem with all of these "isms" is that none of them deal with the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem is that the natural devolution of all human interactions on a large scale is corruption. For that, there is no magic insightful solution.

    8. Re:Doesn't work. by Shifty0x88 · · Score: 2

      In a free market, companies have a single goal: Make a profit. How do they do that?

      By exploiting their customers and making their workers work for less pay and longer hours. Without unions a factory owner has no incentive to pay his or her employees more then what they are getting. And since they are factory workers, they cannot do their job "better", or have "better skills", they simply take Item A and put it in Machine B and then push Button C and throw it in Pile D.

      Greed is why we need unions, because as my parent pointed out: companies have 1 goal: make a profit

    9. Re:Doesn't work. by AK+Marc · · Score: 3

      Companies maximize profit through fraud. Convince people their inferior widget is better, and they make more, even if the widget is provably inferior. So the corporations interests are directly at odds with the government's. The government should be pushing for labeling laws and such, while the corporations are opposing them. Corporations don't care about quality of life, they care about profit, and getting someone addicted to alcohol or caffeine (and keeping safer alternatives, like marijuana, illegal) is better for the corporation, even if worse for the people and the government.

    10. Re:Doesn't work. by The+Raven · · Score: 2

      This outlook is common, and unfortunately it is fundamentally bigoted.

      "I am deserving of this job, but that brown skinned person is not! He's willing to work for less than me, and live in worse conditions than me, therefor I'm a better person. Having to compete with people who demand less sucks."

      It does suck, but globalization fundamentally equalizes things. You forget that you live on 30-50K a year, while billions of people live on under $5000 a year. If some of those people currently living in such horrible conditions are able to learn enough despite the hardships of their lives in order to compete on an equal footing with you, who grew up with better access to education, sanitation, and protection than they could ever hope for, that's something to praise, not belittle.

      Yes, it sucks for you, and for me, that we have to compete with people who have far lower standards than us. But get off your fucking high horse. The absolute best and most effective foreign aid that is possible for people in impoverished countries is the ability to work, and better themselves, and send some of that money home to their family. There is almost no corruption on foreign aid that comes in the form of a check from your son working stateside. It reaches the people who need it most, directly, with no graft.

      Personally, I think we should end all foreign aid immediately, and also open our borders up the way they used to be. We are the land of plenty indeed, despite that it doesn't seem that way sometimes... but that's only because we have so much, we can't even imagine those who have so little.

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    11. Re:Doesn't work. by cpu6502 · · Score: 2

      >>>A) Protect its citizens from force (foreign attack, murder, theft, etc.)
      >>> B) Protect its citizens from fraud (misrepresentation, civil court system, etc.)

      If A and B is all the government does, then that means no more corporations in the USA, since the government would not be issuing incorporation licenses. That sounds like a good plan to me.

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    12. Re:Doesn't work. by khallow · · Score: 2

      Really. It doesn't. Globalism Breaks Capitalism. Period. It's that simple. You are completing on the global stage. Your employer is not. You can't win. You can't keep up. They will import desperate workers from impoverished countries. You will compete with them for food and shelter. Automation makes you disposable and obsolete. You can't work elsewhere, because there are very few jobs (automation) and there are lots of people to do those jobs (globalism).

      Well, I have to disagree. The problem isn't that developed world workers are competing on the global stage, but that they aren't competing. I can't speak for the obstacles that hinder employment in other countries, but the US has imposed substantial barriers to employing US citizens.

      For example, Social Security increases the cost of US labor by about 15%. That's about a tenth of the difference in cost between a US worker and a Chinese worker of similar skills. Similar losses come from how the US does health care and education. There are substantial barriers to employing people which get increased when one gets to 50 employees. I gather other countries have similar barriers.

      My view is that globalism/capitalism is getting blamed unfairly. Your labor simply isn't worth what it used to be yet you still want all those nice benefits. My view is that developed world workers would become a lot more attractive, if they took a few collective sacrifices, particularly reducing or eliminating the public pensions that everyone seems to have picked up to some degree.

      Free market Capitalism is fundamentally broken.

      "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch."

      Get over your fear, and learn to face facts.

      I have, will you?

      It's worth noting also that global labor isn't a bottomless well. There's only seven billion people out there. Wages will rise collectively.

      Even in the case where developed world labor continues to piddle around, there's a good chance in a century or two that current developed world labor will be the low end labor of the future, due to passable infrastructure, no wage gains or increases in living costs for a century, and other default actions that don't get us anywhere, but at least maintain our current capabilities.

  12. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by ohnocitizen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Unions can curb criminal behavior on the part of corporations. Of course, unions being organized power, are also susceptible to being abused as well. Arguing against having any watchmen at all is a bit silly, but we need to also consider who watches the watchmen.

  13. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by rubycodez · · Score: 2

    Japan already has both.

    What they also have, same as the USA, is government in the pockets of large corporations.

  14. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by geoskd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Unions can curb criminal behavior on the part of corporations. Of course, unions being organized power, are also susceptible to being abused as well. Arguing against having any watchmen at all is a bit silly, but we need to also consider who watches the watchmen.

    The answer is not more levels of middlemen, who contribute nothing but another avenue for corruption. The answer, as suggested by others here, is support for workers rights codified by law. The fact that our current democratic process has been thoroughly subverted by the top 1% doesn't mean that adding more corrupt bureaucrats to the process is a good idea, much less the right solution.

    -=Geoskd

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  15. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by artor3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is why we need more unions and more workers rights.

    and they should be able to use contractors and subcontractors to get out being liable.

    Actually, in the US, this kind of ridiculously dangerous behavior would be covered by OSHA laws.

    OSHA laws which only exist thanks to unions.

  16. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 2

    Illegal pooling of power? I guess you can make anything illegal, but from say a Rothbardian natural rights point of view (I'm guessing you're a libertarian) there is absolutely nothing wrong with banding together in contract negotiations (unless there are pre-existing contractual promises not to do so). Nor even stipulating in those negotiations that all employees have to be union ...

    Now of course a lot of current employment law is not exactly Rothbardian, but that's an orthogonal issue.

  17. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I really have no problems with unions the abstract, but in practice I cannot support them due to the laws in the US. If workers are striking, the employer absolutely has the right to fire them. Just as every employee is different, so should their contract. Collective bargaining is an absolutely silly way to conduct business. Even though Joe, Bob and Frank all have the same job and the same experience, they each have their own wants, needs and ability levels. If Joe is much better than Bob and Frank at his job, Joe should get paid more. If Frank is a single young guy, having dental insurance is probably low on his priority list compared to Joe and Bob who both have growing families. Etc.

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  18. Moral Credibility by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In order to safely operate today's generation of nuclear fission reactors, you need the operators and regulators to be transparent and competent. The folks running this Fukushima travesty are neither transparent nor competent.

    Therefore I am forced to conclude that the human race in 2012 does not have the moral credibility to be trusted to operate nuclear fission reactors.

  19. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by Yvanhoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You are talking about America. In most countries, what Americans call "lobbying" is called "corruption" ans is illegal.

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  20. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by riverat1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    By that logic corporations should also be illegal.

  21. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by mwvdlee · · Score: 2

    Some lobbying takes the form of fundraising, but that goes into campaign coffers and the FEC tracks it closely to ensure that it doesn't end up in the candidates' personal accounts.

    You mean that the FEC ensures that every penny that the candidate doesn't have to spend on his own campaign has to be disposed of some other way?

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  22. Typical for technocrats by emt377 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is actually pretty typical when technocrats are in charge. Because they have huge stockpiles of paid-for dosimeters that workers use every day, but which saturate at very low levels, they decide they're going to use those by putting them behind a shield and then adjusting the readings correspondingly. Makes sense, except they give absolutely no consideration to appearances. Ignorant journalists and nutty lefty conspiracy theorists then have a field day.

    1. Re:Typical for technocrats by jrumney · · Score: 2

      This is actually pretty typical when technocrats are in charge. Because they have huge stockpiles of paid-for dosimeters that workers use every day, but which saturate at very low levels, they decide they're going to use those by putting them behind a shield and then adjusting the readings correspondingly. Makes sense, except they give absolutely no consideration to appearances. Ignorant journalists and nutty lefty conspiracy theorists then have a field day.

      Nice try at a plausible explanation. So just show the ignorant journalists the calibration certificates for these lead shields, and give them a sample so they can independently verify that the calibration is correct, and everyone can calm down.

    2. Re:Typical for technocrats by makomk · · Score: 2

      I'm pretty sure that what he's claiming just wouldn't work, because lead shielding attenuates different kinds of radiation at wildly different rates, so there's no way to calculate the workers' actual radiation exposure from the readings the dosimeter behind the shielding gives.

  23. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Informative

    In the UK we have Health and Safety guys to enforce that kind of thing. It is their job to protect workers and nothing else. Their authority overrules other managers in most cases.

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  24. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by LordLimecat · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'd rather outlaw the existence of corporate speech; they can no longer hire lobbyists

    Lobbyists are simply people. Corporations are headed up by CEOs. Are you going to make it illegal for them to contact their reps?

    The only problems with your ideas is that they would be gross violations of the first amendment, and are more dangerous than the issues they are trying to fix.

  25. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by Teancum · · Score: 2

    Oddly enough though (in spite of visual appearances from space), Japan is actually a part of North America, from perhaps an unusual point of view.

  26. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by Teancum · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm not saying it's a perfect system, far from it. But it's not even close to the "legalized bribe" that most people who don't work in Washington imagine it is.

    Having been a candidate for public office before, I will say it is hard to turn down campaign donations from groups that offer enough money to finance your campaign. And I've had offers from groups that I most certainly didn't agree with for money I could have desperately used in order to finance my campaign.

    While the laws have changed somewhat since this practice was happening, there was in the past an option for federal office holders (Senate & U.S. House) to be able to pocket excess campaign donations after they were defeated in an election or went into retirement. This still is the case for some state and municipal office seekers (and certainly was in my case when running for municipal office). I had to report all of the donations of course and file formal reports on all of the income and expenses (which typically break even if you are being serious about a campaign), but if a "generous donation" was to fall in your lap, it certainly could end up being something very much like a legalized bribe.

    I do agree though with the fact that lobbyists do much more than handing out huge piles of money. They do tend to be experts on the topics they advocate about and can be very useful in terms of being able to understand what a particular constituency group or industry group thinks about a particular piece of legislation. As long as you understand the bias that the bring to the table, they can also be useful for obtaining information about that particular topic they are advocating for as well.

  27. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by Forty+Two+Tenfold · · Score: 4, Funny

    America is also the name of the country

    Yeah, if Sarah Palin taught you geography.

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  28. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by Phrogman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Precisely. Although Unions have their own problems that they bring to the table, the general effect is to improve the worker's conditions, safety, wages, etc. As long as they are watched as closely as the Corporations (and to be honest they watch each other), then some balance can be struck where everyone benefits. Without Unions, Corporations are free to abuse their workers without check.
    Yes, as people will point out, the worker's are free to quit if they want to - and if they are aware of the problems in the first place - but that is not always a viable alternative in a society and economy where finding a job is practically like winning the lottery at times.
    Left to themselves, I think most corporations *will* misuse and abuse their workers in the name of profit.

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  29. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by lennier · · Score: 3, Informative

    Collective bargaining is an absolutely silly way to conduct business.

    Of course it is. That's why Wal-Mart loses so much money and has no influence on its suppliers by buying in bulk.

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  30. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 2

    You must hate communicating.

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  31. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by AK+Marc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    People from the United States of Mexico are Mexicans. People from the United States of America are Americans. There is no other group that is called "Americans" (except by Spanish-speakers who deliberately speak English incorrectly). It's consistent and unambiguous. People from the USA are Americans.

  32. Re:This is why we need more unions and more worker by fredprado · · Score: 3, Informative

    You are insane. There is a continent called America and you are part of it, it is sometimes called Americas in English, but both forms are correct. The name "America" can refer to either US, North and South America individually or together. Any of these 4 uses is correct.

    I am pretty fine with the way you chose to call your country, you can choose to be called as you wish imo, but your saying that there is no continent with such name only shows how badly US education has become.

  33. Re:ha ha by Zeroedout · · Score: 3, Informative

    Umm, he published more than one work. You're probably thinking of The Communist Manifesto which was written to inspire the working class to rise up. His economic theories are laid out in a work called "Das Capital" (IIRC).

    You're right that it was abused, but I would argue that no country has ever implemented communism as Marx talked about it. IE it has never been tried.

    Further, there is nothing about Marx's communism that necessarily requires keeping people in the dark in an authoritarian system. IIRC, he called for 'workers to own the means of production.' Kinda hard to be kept in the dark, when you own the damn the thing. It's also not authoritarian when you are the boss, albeit with others.

    Now it has been a while since I read both works, but I don't recall anything that would conflict with open/transparent government and democracy. He did want a centrally planned economy, I guess it would have to be authoritarian in the sense that some group makes decisions on what happens; in his time period, I suppose you couldn't query the masses. I think it would be very interesting to see communism implemented again, ie a centrally planned economy, but instead of a small group/department of planners, poll the citizens?

    And heck, if we still want to allow entrepreneurship, just make a law that says 51% of shares of any company are divided amongst all employees.

  34. Radioactive Whales by cheekyboy · · Score: 2

    hopefully, when they measure high radiation in whales, they will finally stop eating them.

    Wouldnt that be ironic.

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