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City Council Ordered To Stop CCTV In Taxi Cabs

judgecorp writes "Southampton Council in the UK has been ordered to stop snooping on every taxi cab in the city. Privacy watchdog, the Information Commissioner's Office has said it is "disproportionate" to demand that every Southampton taxi has CCTV that constantly monitors driver and passengers, including recording all conversations."

16 of 101 comments (clear)

  1. And yet in Australia by DavidRawling · · Score: 3, Informative

    Or at least in Sydney, pretty much every cab has recording devices "for the safety of driver and passenger". Most appeared after the well publicised bashing of taxi drivers. Thanks numpties for ruining privacy for the rest of us.

  2. Believe it or not... by Landak · · Score: 5, Informative

    The organisation doing the "telling off" here, the Information Commissioner's Office, is actually surprisingly good at these sorts of cases, on these sorts of scales. I know someone who was being followed by his landlord (by PIs -- looking for any breach of his tenancy agreement), and the ICO prosecuted all involved; a solicitor was disbarred and the landlord might face criminal prosecutions. In this case, the relatively small bit of government -- a city council, the smallest 'unit of democracy' in the UK -- being told off here has no choice but to take the ruling and stop taping everyone's conversation (and/or sexy fun time) in the back of a cab.

    Quite why it is that the ICO can tell off Southampton Council for recording people routinely, and yet can do nothing about the fact that everyone's movements across and through London are routinely tracked, however, escapes me. There are more CCTV cameras in london per capita than anywhere else in the world; one need only walk around outside and be followed, tracked and dated whenever you're going anywhere. Automatic CCTV numberplate recognition algorithm will automatically fine you for stopping on a (double) yellow line for more than a minute, or for straying into a bus (or, now, unfortunately, "Games") lane, irrespective of whether or not you had any choice in the matter. I find it depressing that the specific extra-governmental regulatory body designed to stop these sorts of things is so powerless when it comes down to telling off people who actually are important.

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    1. Re:Believe it or not... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's probably to do with an expectation of privacy.

      Outside you expect that you may be on camera. You probably still don't expect your conversations to be recorded.

      In an enclosed space (taxi) you expect a much greater degree of privacy. The cabbie might overhear a few things, but I'd be shocked to find out my conversations were being routinely recorded and stored.

    2. Re:Believe it or not... by _Shad0w_ · · Score: 3, Informative

      Southampton Council is a Unitary Authority; they sit at district level, which is one up from the lowest level, which is Parish Councils.

      Parish Councils generally end up being responsible for things that no-one else higher up wants to run, like allotments and public lavatories. They're frequently appointed by unopposed elections too, because very few people want to be on them - they end co-opt people to them to fill in the gaps.

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    3. Re:Believe it or not... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Funny

      and yet can do nothing about the fact that everyone's movements across and through London are routinely tracked

      It is generally accepted even my the most liberal democracies that people - even visitors - lose some freedoms when in prison.

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    4. Re:Believe it or not... by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 3, Informative

      Unitary Authorities members are generally elected largely unopposed as well, since in most cases no one is interested, or they vote on party lines to "send a message" to central government ....

      The general public largely don't vote in these elections, either due to lack of interest, because they don't know what they do, or they vote on things the body has no responsibility for ...

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    5. Re:Believe it or not... by BenJury · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Automatic CCTV numberplate recognition algorithm will automatically fine you for stopping on a (double) yellow line for more than a minute...

      As a Londoner who has to use those roads, good. People selfishly stopping on main roads to pop in and buy some fags and a paper continually snarls up the traffic in this city. I can't tell you the number of times I've seen roads backed up because one asshat has parked up forcing the traffic from 2 lanes to one, causing huge congestion and waisted time for everyone. All because they cant be arsed to drive an extra 10meters and pull into one of the side roads to park. Gah.

      When I'm mayor (you never know! I mean who'd have though Boris would have got in!) all main roads will be red routes and at least the first few spaces in all side roads will be limited time free parking to accommodate the local businesses. /rant

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    6. Re:Believe it or not... by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Perhaps because people are not "routinely tracked" across London. Most of those CCTV cameras are private, and as was demonstrated by the riots, often capture footage far too low quality to be used for tracking even if they were somehow linked into a kind of super-skynet.

  3. Part of the reason... by Ckwop · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I live and work in the UK and I cycle everywhere. Part of the reason is precisely because it's difficult for the government to interfere with your business. The way I see it, the fewer interactions I have with the government the better.

    If you take public transport, you're on CCTV everywhere. Naturally, you can be subject to searches when leaving train stations or even in bus stations.

    If you drive a car, at some point you're going to get pulled over. You're going to get a ticket of some sort with high probability.

    With cycling, there's no tax to pay. No fuel to pay for. There's no real way to be stopped and searched on a bicycle.

    Often, it is faster than a car journey anyway.

    Cycling is probably one of the only remaining modes of transport that is truly free in both senses of the word.

    1. Re:Part of the reason... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Driving for 15 years in the uk and never pulled over, stopped or searched. As for no way to be stopped and searched ona bike, id imagine its exactly the same as in a car...do something wrong and you can be stopped...give them suspicions and they can search you.....being ona bike has nothing to do with it.

    2. Re:Part of the reason... by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 3, Informative

      If the Police (in the UK) Stop a Car driver they can legally ask for a driving licence (and so get identification)

      If the Police (in the UK) stop a cyclist or pedestrian, then they have no power of search or to ask for ID, unless they arrest you....which they are loathe to do without evidence ...

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    3. Re:Part of the reason... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      They can ask until they're blue in the face, but they won't get it. You're not legally obliged to *carry* your identification when you're driving a car, so instead you would get a form (colloquially called 'a producer') which requires you to produce (show) your documents (driving licence, insurance and MOT test) at the police station of your choice within 7 days. Then, because you've not done something which you can be arrested for, you will be allowed on your way.

  4. Still not as bad as the UK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've helped installed a few of the "Captured by Askari Taxi Security Camera Systems" (used by cabcharge in Queensland in response to the given bashing) a few years ago and the data recorded is nowhere near as bad as the OP suggests.

    The system only records infra-red JPEG images (with GPS and timestamp) of the inside and outside doors upon the following conditions:
      - The brakes are applied hard
      - The door opens
      - The meter is payed
      - 5 minutes before and 5 minutes after the panic button is pressed (in 5 second intervals)

    These might have changed in the last few years but I doubt it.

  5. Too much surveillance by mrbester · · Score: 3

    I'm thinking that this is only because of the recording of conversations as all public transport has CCTV installed these days. None of them record your voice though there are rumblings of installing microphones in street lamps to complement the cameras. There's even talk of installing speakers which would make the England of V a reality.

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  6. Re:I wonder how many cabs will keep CCTV by Shimbo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Though I wouldn't be keen on the council monitoring it all I would certainly keep CCTV in my cab if I were a taxi driver as a deterrent.

    I'm not sure where you got the idea the council was monitoring it all; that seems very unlikely to me. Also, the main part of the ICO ruling was that *audio* recording was a disproportionate breach of privacy.

  7. Taxis in finland by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I drive a taxi in finland and each and every one of the taxis has a camera, a GPS logger and a sealed fare meter and gps navigation. For myself the gps and camera are features that I'd never do the work without. The camera installs in itself lowered taxi robbings and muggings to nearly zero, only leaving the people on drugs or alcohol who attack or try to rob taxi drivers.

    The gps is also a huge safety feature as when the panic button is pressed all of the others cars in town see me in their gps navigation and everyone near me comes to help. I'd never work in a company that covers the cameras or doesn't have the gps logging. Also the data in the camera is stored on an external server and is really hard to get to, requiring a police warrant to even see the data. I can only see a live feed from the camera in the car to adjust its angle.

    Of course in Finland the whole taxi industry is regulated by the government and the local cities, so that enables the huge security brought on by the GPS logging for the driver. Also as the taxi fares are calculated by GPS and by car speed data, and the fares are set by the government, as a passenger youi never have to be afraid of getting cheated with the meter.