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Damn Small Linux Rises From the Dead With a 4.11 RC1 Release
An anonymous reader writes "Damn Small Linux is back from the dead, with a version 4.11 RC1 release announcement at Distrowatch and another at the DSL Forums! Quoting: 'Here is the first release candidate for Damn Small Linux (DSL) 4.11. The changes in this release are a step toward making DSL a friendly alternative for older hardware. I've fixed some bugs, updated some applications, and replaced others. Applications: updated JWM to 2.1.0 (now supports rounding); updated Dillo to 3.0.2 (much improves CSS support); added XChat 1.8.9; added sic 1.1 IRC client; added XCalc-color. Modified desktop functionality: it is now possible to switch between JWM and Fluxbox without shutting down X; added menu items to switch between DFM and xtdesk icon engines or use none at all." Here's the download page."
To get respun for the raspberry pi?
So now again my example of why it should be allowed to repeat the last word of the acronym expanded, is relevant: "ATM machine is running DSL Linux, and is connected over ATM mode DSL line".
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Try both Puppy and Damn Small. I keep a copy of Damn Small in my CD wallet (not every PC boots reliably off USB) for troubleshooting since it's light and fast even on weak systems.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
I just noticed that this distro uses JWM, which was written by legendary TI-83 programmer Joe Wingbermuehle. If you went to high school in 1998-2002 and had a TI83 or TI83+, you might have had some of his programs, such as the Ion assembly shell, Boxworld, Breakout, Diamonds, Dstar, Landmine, or Jezzball.
I'm so happy to see this project's back from the dead. I'll once again be able to make use of super-old PC's. I hope somebody updates the Xbox release called X-DSL someday. It was made for modded Xboxes and it's the only distro that ever really worked well on them.
The Gospel according to lolcat
DSL was hugely important to me. It started me in Linux, got me understanding things, learning scripting, Perl and C. Booted all into ram it was blinding fast even on an old machine. I love small light applications and I still love the idea of a whole desktop and browser in a 50MB iso. It predates Puppy and all the others. But what version stuff is it running now?
What kernel version is it running? libc? Apart from the dispute between its owner and its lead developer (the latter went off to found Tinycore) the big problem with old DSL was compiling anything recent became a pain because it and the gcc versions in the repo were so out of date. Leaving aside security issues this began to hamper what I could do with it. Then there was the old 2.4.26 kernel.
Is that how it has to be if the goal is to support old hardware? How old? Tinycore claims to support 486 with math processor and it has the latest *everything*, tc kernel and apps are often very recent.
Tinycore
Comic store guy, is that you?
But that brings up something I've been wondering for awhile which is this....at what point would it be better to toss the hardware? I mean you can buy one of those E350 based kits for less than $150 and that thing takes less than 18w under load and idles in the mid single digits, I don't even remember what the Pi runs but its a crazy small number, so at what point does that old hardware become too much of a piggie to be worth keeping?
Lets face it folks, while you may see the ancient P2 or P3 around occasionally most of those died ages ago thanks to the cheap caps they used back then so what I see the most of, and by most of i mean fricking insane amounts of, is those damned Pentium 4s. Those P4s frankly were NEVER good on power and just cranked the living shit out of the heat, so would it be better to keep it, thus paying the increased electricity and cooling, or just get something cheap that doesn't blow through power like crap through a goose?
I know that while I've got a couple of P4s waiting on me to refurb at the shop, and probably another good half dozen or more gonna be given to me free by the super for parts or refurbing, the only older machine I've kept is a 2004 Sempron a customer traded in that frankly makes a great nettop at the shop. Its quiet, uses maybe 35w on average, and puts out hardly any heat at all. while that Pentium d I have in the corner may run rings around it it runs rings around my AC as well.
So at what point is it better to dump? I hate as much as the rest to toss working gear, just about to carry a 1.8GHz P4 to the dumpster because i can't think of a damned thing to do with it and I hate tossing working machines like that, but at what point are you blowing through more in power and cooling than you'd save by keeping?
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I asked my self the same things aswell, and here's some simple math:
- how much is the impact on your elec bill?
- how many years does it take to break even the upfront cost of the newer but less electricity demanding hardware?
From there, it's your choice.
Mastering the English language is fucking easy: all you have to do is to put an f* word in every fucking sentence.
What is problematic with DSL and Puppy is that they are a mishmash of various programs with different toolkits. While somewhat heavier, I prefer XFCE or LXDE based distros as they bring a more consistent experience.
Good point. DSL was light, but also felt very clunky: UI and to install extra software. I wanted something with the backing of a standard package repository.
An year or two ago, I was looking for a light Linux to run in a VM and was balancing usability with RAM usage. Here are my numbers from some old notes. Unless specified, the numbers are for RAM usage at login to Desktop at default config (I might have removed some apps I considered non-essential - I don't recall).
Of course, these are not exactly scientific. Was sshd running for Arch?, I didn't note down. The distro version numbers were also not noted, but all distros were roughly from 1.5 years ago. They were more for getting ballpark estimates. AFAI-recall, they were all booted in a 256 MB VM (Virtualbox).
Lubuntu - 85 MB
Fluxbuntu 48 MB (31 MB without X)
Lubuntu 64 MB (41 MB without X)
Ubuntu Server 10.04 without servers and X - 145 MB (did not expect this)
Ubuntu Mint (Gloria) 144 MB
Debian Mint 138 MB
ULite Desktop - 54 MB (17 MB without X)
ULite Desktop without GDM - 26 MB
Non-Debian (without X)
Suse in light server config - 13 MB (incl sshd, 10 MB without)
Arch - 14 MB
So, Suse took the light-weight crown for RAM usage at terminal boot. For me though, Lubuntu was the sweet-spot at that time.
It sounds like you have applications such as networked storage or firewall boxes in mind, but for desktop use, you can can actually get quite nice used desktop hardware for less than $150 -- often less than half that. For about 8 years now, I've been buying cheap machines, putting linux on them, and putting them in my physics lab for my students to use. For a while I was going to garage sales, Salvation Army, and shops that sold used boxes. But recently I've found that really nice hardware is becoming available on ebay at very reasonable prices. Here are some examples of some recent machines I've bought:
HP Pavilion Desktop D4100Y Pentium D 2.80 GHz 1 GB Memory /PC2-3200, $40+$23 shipping
HP XW4400 Workstation Intel Core 2 DUO E6300 1.86GHz 250GB 1GB CD-RW/ DVD, $90+$24 shipping
HP Compaq D330 uT Intel Pentium 4 2.66GHZ 80GB HDD 1GB DDR Desktop PC, $30+$23 shipping
Gateway GT5637E AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ 160GB HDD 2GB DDR2 CD-RW/ DVD-RW, $110+$20 shipping
Even with shipping, it's a lot less money than you'd pay locally for the same hardware. It's also much less work to find it, and it's not in need of as many upgrades as the kind of stuff you find at garage sales, etc., where many machines have no CD drive, no ethernet, or not enough memory.
I typically install ubuntu and set them up with xfce as the default wm. Performance is fine.
Find free books.
Old hardware is only useful because it's cheap (or often free) and it's fun, if that's your thing.
I've got a few old Sparcstation 20s that I play around with. Why? They're fun. Or at least they were, before Oracle mucked about with docs.sun.com.
I've got some old Pentium I machines that I've used as small network servers and firewalls. As of yesterday, I'm on all modern (and much more energy efficient) machines, but a Pentium I will serve DHCP just as well as an i7. I used to keep a few old HP Vectras around to act as a "network in a box" - firewall and DNS/DHCP - to install on networks when a family member wanted additional computers. I don't bother anymore, since home routers are the default these days.
My advice? Take the old stuff you don't need and put them outside where they can be seen - preferably under an awning or something to protect them from the weather. I got my start on hardware when a friend of mine saw an old guy throwing away a shed full of 8088 and 286 class machines - you never know if a pickup truck full of Pentium 4s is all a prospective geek needs to kickstart his hobby. If no one claims them in a week, recycle them.
Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
Or don't take it to the dumpster, BestBuy takes old hardware off your hands for free and that way it gets properly recycled instead of leaking toxic metals in a dump somwhere
The point at which eliminating your wait time for whatever slow application (usually Firefox...), is worth the sale price of new hardware, plus the time and effort to setup that new system.
Power is cheap, and old hardware is much lower power than people expect, due to being single-core and having low-power GPUs and North/Southbridges. I still have a 2.4GHz P4 system up and running in an office... It draws all of 40w at idle, which means operating costs are just a few cents a day at worst, and probably less than the monitor it's hooked up to.
Setup issues can be more significant than price. Upgrading from 32 to 64-bit can be a much, much bigger hassle than just transferring your data over, and dealing with issues like the new system not handling Suspend / Resume properly can mean your NEW system is suddenly the power-hog.
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