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Open-Source Movements Bicker Over Logo

Posted by samzenpus on from the you're-both-pretty dept.

colinneagle writes in with a story about open source organizations fighting over logos. "A gear logo proposed to represent and easily identify open-source hardware has caught the eyes of the The Open Source Initiative, which believes the logo infringes its trademark. The gear logo is backed by the Open Source Hardware Association (OSHWA), which was formally established earlier this year to promote hardware innovation and unite the fragmented community of hackers and do-it-yourselfers. The gear mark is now being increasingly used on boards and circuits to indicate that the hardware is open-source and designs can be openly shared and modified. OSI has now informed OSHWA, which is acting on behalf of the open-source hardware community, that the logo infringes on its trademark. The issue at stake is a keyhole at the bottom of the open-source hardware logo, which resembles a keyhole at the bottom of the OSI logo. The gear logo was created as part of the contest hosted by the group that founded OSHWA, and the mark was released by its designer under a Creative Commons license, opening it up for the community to use on hardware."

17 of 158 comments (clear)

  1. Re:The bane of Open Sores... by ChrisKnight · · Score: 4, Informative

    For those too young to remember... 'open sores' is a reference to a User Friendly comic. I miss that comic.

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    -- This sig is only a test. If this were a real sig it would say something witty. --
  2. Bickering? by Theoden · · Score: 5, Funny

    Open source groups bickering over something insignificant? Really? Better fork it!

    1. Re:Bickering? by tlhIngan · · Score: 5, Informative

      Open source groups bickering over something insignificant?

      It's not insignificant, it's trademark violation.

      You may think it's insignificant, but it's the same reason why there's Debian IceWeasel, and CentOS. The former to prevent confusion with the trademark of FireFox, the latter gets rid of all RedHat references. You see, trademark law is very clear on this - use it and defend it, or lose it.

      If CentOS slapped the RedHat logo everywhere, RedHat could find themselves with a logo so devalued to the courts that we can have Microsoft RedHat Windows, Apple OS X RedHat, etc. Ditto Firefox - there's the danger that well, Microsoft could rename Internet Explorer to FireFox with impunity.

      Same as this - the OSI and OSHWA could find their logos devalued as confusing, enabling everyone to slap the OSI label on stuff NOT open-source, or the gear logo on hardware NOT open-hardware (like say, a Windows 8 RT tablet).

      It's brand preservation and recognition. There are strict rules on how you use the logos spelled out in many agreements. They may be out in the open like many open-source projects (which usually boil down to you must be using that project from that branch - forking and reusing the logo is not allowed),

      The OSI may lose their logo in the end because the OSHWA inadvertently made it a bit too close and since both are used widely. (Even the OSHWA may lose it because their logo looks too close to the similar OSI one).

      All it would take is some company with deep pockets to start slapping the logos on everything they make and arguing that the logos mean nothing.

      It's why Apple, Jack Daniels, etc. send C&D letters to the most seemingly fleeting resemblances (though with very different tones - an Apple C&D is very lawyerly, while the Jack Daniels one is more friendly, but it's still a C&D).

    2. Re:Bickering? by Pivot · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm surprised the logo isn't a picture of a fork!

  3. The most pathetic development in Open-Source by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    While the open-source movement itself has been under constant attack from patent trolls, copyright trolls, trolls of all sizes and from all sides, now we have this ....

    PLEASE, GIVE ME A BREAK !!!
     
    STOP BEING SO MOTHER-FUCKING CHILDISH !!!

    I sincerely hope that there are still some adults left in the OSI and it's time for the adults to lead the movement

    WE ARE TIRED OF ALL THE COPYRIGHT / LOGO / PATENT DISPUTES !!!
     

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:The most pathetic development in Open-Source by DemonGenius · · Score: 5, Funny

      Am I the only one that read this in the voice of Samuel L. Jackson?

    2. Re:The most pathetic development in Open-Source by ozmanjusri · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I sincerely hope that there are still some adults left in the OSI and it's time for the adults to lead the movement

      Certainly more than there are in Slashdot.

      If you made the effort to check the OSHWA site instead of the clickbait NetworkWorld beatup, you'd see there's no headbutting, just two teams working together to solve a mutual problem.

      The OSHWA team have been offered a license to use the trademark, which would allow OSI to continue defending its mark as needed. Instead of the aggression implied by our sensationalist, error-ridden TFA, the reality is two groups of sensible people negotiating the best paths forward for both their communities.

      This is truly ugly journalism. We should be discussing how crap like this is promoted to the frontpage of Slashdot, not pretending outrage at OSI and OSHWA.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    3. Re:The most pathetic development in Open-Source by snowgirl · · Score: 3, Informative

      WE ARE TIRED OF ALL THE COPYRIGHT / LOGO / PATENT DISPUTES !!!

      I'm sure the OSI is as well. And I'm sure that the OSI likes the logo, and filed regretfully...

      Why would they file if they don't want to file?

      Trademarks are use-'em-or-lose-'em. If you see something that is potentially infringing, and don't do anything about it, then when someone else comes along and actually does infringe, and you don't like it, they can point to you giving up your rights to your trademark in the previous case, and POOF! There goes your trademark entirely.

      It's a shitty situation, but this is where trademark law has left us. For the OSI to have a trademark, they have to sue the OSHWA over this...

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
  4. Re:What about Slashdot's usage? by The+Mighty+Buzzard · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Trademark is not copyright. It is not a right businesses have but a consumer protection and only applies when a moron in a hurry might mistake one product for the other. Is there any chance you might mistake a news for nerds site for a piece of opensource hardware?

    --
    Violence is like duct tape. If it doesn't solve the problem, you didn't use enough.
  5. Re:The bane of Open Sores... by Anrego · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yup.

    Shitty situation, but I can actually see OSIs point. If I saw the OSHWA logo without prior background I probably would assume it was some how tied to OSI due to the similarity, which kinda defeats the whole point of a trademark.

    Also as I understand it, when it comes to trademarks if you don't make efforts to protect it, you lose it.

    Hopefully they come to some kind of amicable agreement. I think both sides are reasonable enough that they can come up with some way to fix this without us reading about the ongoing court battle for the next 2 years.

  6. Re:Er... by MtHuurne · · Score: 3, Informative

    The logos look similar enough (in my opinion) that people might assume they are related. The way trademarks work is that if you let others use them without any kind of control over how they are used, you lose them. So the options the OSI has is to let go of their trademark altogether or to come to some kind of agreement with the OSHWA about the conditions under which the similar logo can be used. The problem with the former is that they would then be unable to prevent anyone from using their logo, even on software that is not open source. The article says negotiations between the two groups are in progress. I don't see anything wrong here, unless you're opposed to the concept of trademarks itself.

  7. Re:Jeez... by dadioflex · · Score: 3, Funny

    Somewhere between one guy coding in his bedroom to "there's a committee for that", something goes wrong. You know the definition of politics? It's what happens when more than two people gather in one place.

  8. Re:Too similar by InfiniteZero · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seconded.

    Not only is the logo too similar, but frankly it sucks. To the uninitiated it looks like a broken gear. You can only imagine the jokes down the road whenever something doesn't work.

    For all its merits, graphic design is one of those areas where the open source movement lacks serious talent.

  9. Codehaus Logo Keyhole by Bob9113 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I happened to be grabbing a fresh copy of Jetty and noticed that Codehaus's logo has the same keyhole.

    --
    Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
  10. Re:The bane of Open Sores... by ChrisKnight · · Score: 3, Informative

    Sadly, no. There hasn't been a new strip in years. For example, today's strip is a rerun from 2001.

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    -- This sig is only a test. If this were a real sig it would say something witty. --
  11. Re:Jeez... by ozmanjusri · · Score: 4, Informative

    Oh you want to watch 'em foam like rabid dogs,

    Yet more anti-FOSS FUD from Hairyfeet.

    Here's the reality"

    The current leadership of the Open Source Initiative (OSI, opensource.org) has brought to our attention that they feel the Open Source Hardware ‘gear’ logo infringes on their trademark.

    US Trademark law requires OSI to protect their mark and to notify potential infringers when they become aware of them. OSI has indicated that they would grant a trademark license to OSHWA. This would give OSI the means to protect their trademark.

    http://www.oshwa.org/

    --
    "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
  12. Facts From OSI by WebMink · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'm OSI's current president. Here are the facts that are missing from the OP:

    1. OSI has not sent any legal notice to OSHWA, does not want to and has no plans to do so.
    2. OSHWA approached OSI last year to ask about the relationship between the OSHW and OSI logos, which their internal discussion had identified as a problem.
    3. Since then, there has been an ongoing conversation between OSI & OSHWA. It's not been perfect, but everyone involved is a volunteer doing their best in a complicated situation.
    4. Last week OSHWA decided to consult its members/stakeholders about the matter before next steps with OSI.
    5. The template trademark agreement from OSI that they published was not a proposal or demand, it was just an example document to assist them in making a proposal to OSI. It was requested by OSHWA prior to a meeting between OSI & OSHWA on June 29.
    6. The discussions are ongoing and it's unhelpful to treat this as a conflict; neither OSI's Board nor (as far as I have been told) OSHWA's board do.
    7. OSI is very keen indeed to devise an approach that brings maximum benefit to the whole open source community and which builds bridges to strengthen it.
    8. When OSHWA's data-gathering ends (August 16) OSI will be ready with a strong proposal that fixes things.