Slashdot Mirror


Google's Self-Driving Cars: 300,000 Miles Logged, Not a Single Accident

An anonymous reader writes "The automated cars are slowly building a driving record that's better than that of your average American. From the article: 'Ever since Google began designing its self-driving cars, they've wanted to build cars that go beyond the capabilities of human-piloted vehicles, cars that are much, much safer. When Sebastian Thrun announced the project in 2010, he wrote, "According to the World Health Organization, more than 1.2 million lives are lost every year in road traffic accidents. We believe our technology has the potential to cut that number, perhaps by as much as half." New data indicate that Google's on the right path. Earlier this week the company announced that the self-driving cars have now logged some 300,000 miles and "there hasn't been a single accident under computer control." (The New York Times did note in a 2010 article that a self-driving car was rear-ended while stopped at a traffic light, so Google must not be counting the incidents that were the fault of flawed humans.)'"

30 of 465 comments (clear)

  1. Rear Ended by sconeu · · Score: 4, Funny

    The GoogleMobile was behaving properly, and was stopped. It had no possible way to evade the puny human that hit it.

    However, after the accident, the GoogleMobile was heard asking another car, "Hey, hot mama, wanna kill all humans?"

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    1. Re:Rear Ended by norpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You are creating a straw man there, 99% of similar situations with human drivers would either have not noticed the exit or not reacted in time.
      Additionally you likely broke the law doing what you did and if you caused an accident or ran over a pedestrian because of it you would have been 100% at fault, whereas being shunted by the guy behind you lands 100% of the resposibility on him (unless you stopped too close to a car in front of you).

      I would put money on your driving record being way worse than 300k miles accident free. The actual pouplation-wide average is a LOT higher than that, and you are asking for us to give up reducing that number because we can't reduce it to 0.

      That's like people saying "Don't build gas power plants to replace coal plants because they still emit CO2", sure it's not perfect but at least it BETTER.

    2. Re:Rear Ended by Beardydog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think he's saying we should give up on reducing that number. I think he's saying it may technically have been avoidable in that case. It's not meant to be dismissive. It's meant to be food for thought.

    3. Re:Rear Ended by Cryacin · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm more wondering what it would be like for the driver who actually rear ended a robotic vehicle

      Uh, yeah, so I rear ended you. We should exchange insurance details.

      I'm sorry, Dave, but I can't do that.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    4. Re:Rear Ended by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But if everyone went around in automated cars, the point is there would be no "idiot" in your rear view because he also would have been in an automated car; one which would have stopped in time.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    5. Re:Rear Ended by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm more wondering what it would be like for the driver who actually rear ended a robotic vehicle

      I imagine that you exchange details with the human in charge, with the full knowledge that there will be a complete 360 degree video of the accident with measurements of speed of both vehicles.

    6. Re:Rear Ended by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What about cars with no passengers though? Say there is no parking near your work so you send the car home, then tell it to come get you at 5PM. On the way it has an accident. There will have to be some kind of system in place for notifying the owner and allowing the other person involved in the collision to speak with them. Even if it is just a notice placed somewhere on the car it will have to be standardized.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:Rear Ended by Havenwar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Okay, unexpected things that doesn't include hitting or being hit by things... Hmm.

      At one point I was driving down the road, when the road disappeared.

      Sure, it didn't literally disappear, it just so happened that it re-located about 30 feet downwards in an instant due to an unfortunate passionate meeting between a boat and a support pillar holding the bridge I was about to cross up. I guess they really liked each other, or whatever, but all the same I was definitely surprised, there was nothing for me to hit but rock bottom and by the time any computer would have seen that it would have been too late, and nothing was about to hit me.

      It's possible their car could handle this situation, but that depends largely on how perfectly they can detect every inch of road. From what I've heard they go mostly by road markings and such, which means that in such a situation they'd have to switch to manual control. Hopefully in time to avoid a nosedive into the amorous steel behemoths below.

      Children running into the road is childs play - a clear collision avoidance. How about children jumping over you? There I was driving down a narrow "alleyway" between two walls/brick fences that were just barely high enough that I couldn't see over them, and all of a sudden a bunch of teens on bikes fly over the road over and infront of me. I slowed down, and that was pretty lucky because the last guy didn't make it. Granted that's collision avoiding, but would google's car have been slowing down for things flying above it? Can it tell that this is kids on bikes that might crash, or a ball that might be followed (if it's above you and thus not in your direct path), rather than a dove or flying squirrel with a death wish and a meth addiction?

      I could go on, but the point I'm trying to make is simple - being a good driver is not just about not bashing into things and avoiding things bashing into you, it's about avoiding putting yourself in a position where you can't stop. It's about avoiding the scene of the potential accident completely, not about behaving competently once you are already there.

    8. Re:Rear Ended by Havenwar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think you're missing the point, it's not about objective skill, but rather the fact that 80% think they are better than average. In reality 50% is better than average, 50% is worse than average. That means 30% of people at the very least, overestimate their skills. It's called illusory superiority, and you can check it out on wikipedia, it's a basic cognitivie bias. It even quoted the studies I referred to.

      "For driving skill, 93% of the US sample and 69% of the Swedish sample put themselves in the top 50% (above the median). For safety, 88% of the US group and 77% of the Swedish sample put themselves in the top 50%"
      -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority#Driving_ability

      You can also read the article on the Dunning-Kruger effect.
      "The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes."
      -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

      My definition of a good driver is one that doesn't get into accidents, and that can handle an unexpected situation quickly and correctly. Whether they obey traffic laws is more about whether they are a good citizen or not, and that's a different argument, however staying within the traffic laws (i.e. lowering speed around schools) prevent accidents, and is as such a trait of a good driver.

      Whether you are indeed a good driver is irrelevant to the fact that a lot of people judge themselves as to be better than they are. It's after all not the individual that matters when we're talking about the group as a whole.

    9. Re:Rear Ended by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Think of the implications of having an automated driving system... the onboard computer is collecting and analyzing data in real time, and it will likely store that information, at least temporarily. So if a Google car is involved in a crash, a full report will be generated, detailing exactly what happened and liability will be very easy to determine in most cases. "Car A has had a faulty motion sensor on the front bumper that the driver failed to have replaced" or "Car B drove through a red light to hit Car A".

      I also think that automated cars will observe all safety rules to the letter... like only driving the speed limit (or slightly below), always maintaining a safe distance behind other vehicles, stopping for yellow lights, and having a generous braking distance. Remember, Google could be held liable if the system is reckless, and they aren't going to want that when human lives are at stake.

      I think that making automated, passenger-less cars legal will be a very easy decision for legislatures, and will pass quickly. Like I said, I believe automated cars will err far more on the side of caution, like the most grandmotherly of drivers.

      I'm not so sure. For driving on the highway I think it will be fine, but think about some other conditions. How will it deal with passing a horse and rider on a narrow road? How will it deal with coming across another driver in a country lane at a place where there is no room to pass? How will it drive on a road with a shear drop off on one side and a cliff on another? If this is narrow with passing paces will it know to pull in so that it almost touches the cliff to give extra space to the vehicle near the drop-off? In busy commuter traffic will it adjust the "aggressiveness" of pulling out from a side-road to take into account that if you don't pull out quick and accelerate hard you could be waiting until the end of the rush? On a rutted farm track can it work out that you have to drive with one wheel on the centre of the road and the other on the edge to avoid the tractor ruts?

      If you have a driver there is always the option to safely pull over or stop and say "manual intervention required", but once you allow completely automatic use with non-drivers or no driver the car has to do something sensible.

  2. what is the issue??? by FranTaylor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's hard to imagine being found at-fault when you are stopped and rear-ended.

    There's no shame in being involved in an accident if it's not your fault.

    We trust others all around us every day to avoid smashing into us. Even the best drivers get hit.

    1. Re:what is the issue??? by mark-t · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No shame, perhaps... but also no less pain, unfortunately.

      Sure, they can offer some monetary compensation, but having been in such an accident and received adequate monetary compensation for all my medical expenses, I can sure as heck tell you that I would have rather not have had the money, and had those two years of my life *without* the back pain.

    2. Re:what is the issue??? by Animats · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's hard to imagine being found at-fault when you are stopped and rear-ended.

      Especially when the self-driving car has full video, lidar, and radar coverage of the entire event. And really good lawyers.

    3. Re:what is the issue??? by knuthin · · Score: 5, Informative

      The only accident that happened with the self driving car, was when it wasn't being self driven. Just explains your point better.

      --
      Some apps are WYSIWYG. Some others are WYSIWTF.
    4. Re:what is the issue??? by GigaplexNZ · · Score: 4, Informative

      Why you think rich people are professional drivers is beyond me.

      What? No. Rich people hire people to drive them around.

    5. Re:what is the issue??? by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It is entirley possible that the 93 % are right, if the worst 7 % are REALLY BAD drivers.

      Not even really bad. For instance, if 93% of drivers are 1% above the average in driving skill, then the remaining 7% of drivers only need to be 13.3% below average in driving skill. I've had to avoid drivers who are a lot worse than that. My memory (or confirmation bias) suggests that the worst drivers are found in Audis and invariably have a cellphone stuck to their ear, whether in North America or in Europe.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    6. Re:what is the issue??? by TClevenger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And I have never been incompetently cut off by someone driving any model of VW, Toyota (unless you count the Scion or Lexus), Nissan, Honda, or just about any other non-luxury car brand. Never.

      I was nearly killed on my scooter today by a woman in a Honda Accord who ran a stop sign at 25 mph and turned directly in my path. Anecdote is anecdoty.

    7. Re:what is the issue??? by dontmakemethink · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Wise man say, when crossing one-way street, look both ways. There are very many hazards that automated cars undo as well. I read an amazing essay about life with all fully automated vehicles, where you don't own a car, instead you punch your cargo and travel plans into a website, and the appropriate vehicle shows up and takes care of your travel needs. If it's a mile or so to the grocery store, a wagon shows up. If it's to the remote cottage an SUV shows up. If it's to a wedding a limo shows up. If it's to an airport a shuttle bus shows up with room for you and your baggage along with others etc. Think about how much time your car is parked and think about how many fewer automated vehicles it would take to service a large population. MASSIVE CO2 emission reduction, especially if most of them are fully electric, as they could easily recharge themselves automatically. The ramifications are really stupendous.

      I can't find a link to the essay (I'm unwinding after a long day and I get 3 hrs sleep before a 17 hr day tomorrow), but I'm sure other /.ers have heard of it.

      --

      War as we knew it was obsolete
      Nothing could beat complete denial
      - Emily Haines
  3. Interference? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I want to know about interference between cars. I've only see one self-driving car tested at a time. If there's hundreds within visual range of each other are their radar and laser sensors going to have much more noise?

    The little experience I have with robots is that laser range finders like to bounce off things and skew readings. How do the cars deal with that?

    1. Re:Interference? by stephanruby · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I want to know about interference between cars. I've only see one self-driving car tested at a time. If there's hundreds within visual range of each other are their radar and laser sensors going to have much more noise?

      With hundreds of self-driving cars everywhere, then they may even be able to save on gas by flocking together and save on wind resistance and save on stopping time by sharing gas and Slurpees at high speeds.

      And of course, fewer sensors would have to operate that way, only the car in front would have to scan far off in the front, and only the car in the back would have to scan the rear.

  4. Impressive, but by punit_r · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It is indeed an impressive statistic about the number of accidents by the self-driving car of Google. This does prove that their decision making algorithms are good.

    However, comparison to humans is probably not fair. Human mind is more prone to giving in to temptation. Exceeding speed limits, violating lane changing rules once in a while to get ahead, talking while driving, texting while driving, getting distracted by the hot chick/dude in the car in the next lane are all errors that humans would routinely make. Some of them would lead to accidents where the erring driver suffers an accident. Some lead to an innocent driver suffering due to the errors of others. It is the latter condition where the Self-Driving car's algorithms appear good --- handling exceptions generated by human drivers, pedestrians and traffic.

    1. Re:Impressive, but by mark-t · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not supposed to be a fair comparison. That's the point. The idea is that cars that are driven by computer can be vastly safer than those driven by people, which will have the desired upshot of reducing accidents.

  5. how does it handle atypical situations? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So far I've never seen an explanation, but all these situations have occurred to me within the last year:

    (1) Construction zone, worker standing with a temporary "slow/stop" sign indicating when cars can proceed on a one-lane section shared between both directions alternately.

    (2) Baseball rolls out into street in residential area, followed soon by child who was initially invisible behind a parked minivan. I knew ball might be followed by someone, and slowed way down so this wasn't a problem. At normal speed, it would have been.

    (3) Nearly invisible ice around curve, one other car had slid off road. I knew to greatly reduce speed even below normal winter operating conditions.

    (4) Two lanes in each direction road. Noticed other car weaving around unpredictably, and later noticed driver occupied with cell phone. I then knew not to drive next to this vehicle even though that would have been fine in other conditions.

    How would google's car handle these situations?

    1. Re:how does it handle atypical situations? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I have seen a roadworks site where the speed limit sign showed 0 kph. There was no one working there at the time. I did wonder what Google's car would have done.

    2. Re:how does it handle atypical situations? by Havenwar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But we will. That's the entire point... Computer driven cars are better than humans, on average, and in an infrastructure re-modelled to suit such cars they are close to infallible compared to human drivers. We are struggling right now to get a computer to navigate the human infrastructure, but once this sort of machine has saturated the market the infrastructure WILL change.

      You have to remember you don't live in the world of yesterday, you live in the world of now. The world of now has a very special aspect to it... what we choose to do, changes the world of tomorrow.

      Don't arbitrarily limit tomorrow based on the world we had yesterday.

  6. Re:300k miles isn't much. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    That's a 1 in 6,500 chance of *dying* in a traffic accident.

  7. But god help you... by dyingtolive · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The moment even one accident does occur, no matter how mild the consequences or much more unlikely the circumstances compared to a human driver, hordes upon hordes of American luddites will man the lines to do their civic duty to shit upon the idea of cars that drive themselves.

    Mind you, this is being said by an American who owns a US made car.

    --
    Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
  8. I love this idea by EGSonikku · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I live in Reno, and Google's Self Driving cars are legal on road here (complete with cool plates with infinity logo: http://www.jumpthecurve.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/18164996_BG1.jpg)

    A few things:

    1) Has google partnered at all with any manufacturers to have this ability on a future car I can buy?
    2) or as an upgrade to existing cars?

    I'm hoping they don't get stuck in red tape legal limbo hell, and that more states other than my own Nevada jump on board. I regularly make 3.5 - 4 hour drive to friends in California. If I could just jump in the car, pop in an address, and take a nap, play on my iPad, or whatever while the car drove that'd be awesome. Or a ride home from a bar if I've been drinking and don't want to taxi and leave the car behind.

    Or imagine a friend asks for a ride someplace? No problem, I send the car over on its own, and he can just tell it to come back to my house afterwards.

    There are tons of ideas I can think of where this would be very damned useful.

    --
    - "Scientia non habet inimicum nisp ignorantem"
  9. Re:But how smart? by vux984 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Pretty much this.

    Google deliberately avoids the more challenging situations, and a LOT of those miles are highway.

    There's a reason insurance rates for someone living in a small town in the country are lower. Right now, google is pretty much "that guy".

    That's not to disparage what google has accomplished, but its premature to compare it to the safety record of a downtown urban commuter; driving through rush hour traffic to and from work in a major city daily.

  10. How many parking spaces? by david.emery · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How many times has the Google-mobile pulled into and out of parking spaces at busy malls? Frankly, that's where I've had my accidents.