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How Will Amazon, Barnes & Noble Survive the iPad Mini?

redletterdave writes "For about a year, Amazon.com and Barnes & Noble were almost completely alone in the 7-inch tablet market. It was nice while it lasted. The past few months have seen Google and Microsoft unveil their 7-inch tablet offerings — the Nexus 7 and Microsoft Surface, respectively — and it looks like Apple is about ready to get into the mini tablet game, too. If Apple releases its first 'iPad Mini' next month, what can Amazon and Barnes & Noble do to keep the Cupertino colossus at bay, as well as the other new competitors in the 7-inch tablet game?"

34 of 354 comments (clear)

  1. Who cares? by jmorris42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I get really tired of this frame of stories that assume Apple is the alpha and the omega.

    Who cares about a possible iPad Mini that isn't drinking the Kool-Aid already? Just another iOS device, they already come with a range of displays, connectivity, etc. If you have already bought into the iOS ecosystem you might want one, otherwise not so much. What other OEM adding a new screen size would be a major story on /.? Newsflash! Dell adds new display option to their laptop line, discuss.

    And for that matter, I don't really care about the Amazon or Nook tablets because they are trying to run the same Apple game plan, poorly. I don't want to semi-buy a tethered device that is more a tethered window into it's owner's cloud than a computer that [I] control. And to a great extent I toss the new Google Nexus 7 (by Asus) into the same pile.

    Look around and you can buy tablets in any size, build quality and price that can be unlocked, accept removable media, even boot from that external media. Want one with a keyboard? Yup. Good cameras, sensors, etc. How much ya willing to pay? In other words, tablet computers instead of iPad clones. You can keep your subsidized[1] media players; I'm a nerd and I buy computers.

    Just don't expect to buy a computer from a media company and get anything useful. Which is what B&N and Amazon are, Apple is in the process of becoming and Google is greatly desiring to be.

    [1] Well not subsidized from Apple of course, there you pay more for the chains... but they are just so stylish!

    --
    Democrat delenda est
    1. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      People care about what Apple is doing because Apple has historically set the trend for pretty much every market that they have entered

    2. Re:Who cares? by Bogtha · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Who cares about a possible iPad Mini that isn't drinking the Kool-Aid already?

      Pretty much everybody, because whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, Apple defined this market with the iPad. You say it yourself, all the major competitors are basically following Apple's lead. Every tablet from every competitor is compared to the iPad in reviews. The tablet market was practically non-existent before the iPad was released. It's not so much a tablet market as an iPad market with a few hangers on.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    3. Re:Who cares? by bhunachchicken · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Who cares about a possible iPad Mini that isn't drinking the Kool-Aid already? Just another iOS device, they already come with a range of displays, connectivity, etc. If you have already bought into the iOS ecosystem you might want one, otherwise not so much"

      And this is where a lot of people (no offence) fail to understand how Apple really operates. Apple will make it their job to ensure that you must have one, that you cannot live without one, that you are a social outcast without one.

      They want people to say "Oh, look! A smaller iPad! I didn't want one before, but now that it's smaller, fits in my handbag, and is cute, I want one!"

      What will they use it for? Nothing that they can't already do on a computer or a standard iPad, that's for sure. But the fact that it's yet another Apple Fashion Accessory[1], they will buy buy buy buy buy! Because if you don't have one, you're weird.

      I don't have an iPhone or an iPod. I have an HTC Desire and a Sandisk Sansa (with Rockbox). What do people say to me?

      "Why do you use that? Why don't you get an iPhone/iPod? Everyone else has one."

      And when the iPad Mini comes out, it will be like no 7" tablet existed before it, and that Apple has reinvented the market again. Everything else will be a copy (like those copycat Asians at Samsung). We all know it to be true - this is what the general public will believe.

      [1] - I don't believe there actually is a tablet market. Just an iPad market. No one wants tablets, just something that makes them look cool and hip. Like everyone else.

    4. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I went with a kindle instead of an iPad not for the price and not for the size, but because of the eInk display. It makes for a much nicer reading than any display I had sofar. Of course this makes the kindle solely a book-reading device. But for this, it's close to optimal.

    5. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, that sounds totally believable. Apple has a long history after all of undercutting the competition and selling their devices cheaper than the competition.

      Bwahahahahahahahaha....

    6. Re:Who cares? by bazorg · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I would only add that it's a new market with lots of margin for growth, therefore I do expect a lot of people to be interested, regardless of kool-aid drinking history. I'd expect the Windows tablet market share to grow a lot when they get MS Office to run on it, and I'm sure there's other players like Nintendo who will get a slice. Apple will probably remain the leader in the high end, Android the overall leader and who knows what follows.For me, the mini iPad is more meaningful if thought in terms of price rather than screen size. If they sell it for just above the Nexus or Kindle price, it will be yet another awesome success for them.

    7. Re:Who cares? by Papaspud · · Score: 5, Informative

      iPod touches are $199 +, no way they are going to be less than that. I'm thinking more along the lines of $299+.........

      --
      Everything above is my opinion....YMMV
    8. Re:Who cares? by Omestes · · Score: 4, Informative

      vapor ware

      I doubt that means what you think it means.

      A product with a definite release date, and working existent models is not vaporware. It is unreleased hardware.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    9. Re:Who cares? by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't have an iPhone or an iPod. I have an HTC Desire and a Sandisk Sansa (with Rockbox). What do people say to me?

      "Hipster." I have a Sansa with Rockbox, too, but stopped using it approximately the first time I ever saw an iPod Touch.

      I don't believe there actually is a tablet market. Just an iPad market. No one wants tablets, just something that makes them look cool and hip. Like everyone else.

      Well, that's just precious! In the real world, people love tablets. There are a lot of people who want portable, Internet-capable devices without lugging around laptops. I'm sure there's some tiny portion of the tablet market who likes being seen with them, but the owners I've seen tend to use them while lounging around their houses watching Netflix or playing games.

      Note: I don't have an iPad and I'm not defending my own purchasing decisions. I have a Nook Simple Touch that I use purely as an ebook reader because I don't really have a need for anything else between my phone and laptop. But it's sheer ignorance to claim that tablets are a fad just because you don't like them. Lots of people do, and manufacturers have made a few billion dollars selling them without an end in sight.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    10. Re:Who cares? by AK+Marc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The tablet market was like turbos in cars. GM did them in the '60s so bad that nobody wanted them again. Even with the Turbo Trans Am in the '80s, that failed miserably. Then companies like Saab and Volvo had turbos everywhere and did fine, beating GM in price, economy, and performance with turbos.

      I used tablets in the '90s. They were heavy (heavier than laptops). They were slow (speced similar to low-end laptops). And they were expensive (priced similar to high-end laptops). And the OS sucked. Mostly windows where a touch was a click, and dragging was neigh impossible. They required styluses. The few that were bought were very limited in scope (the only deployment I saw was for doctors, or places with test units).

      So, every time someone said "tablet" after that, it was slow, heavy, expensive, like "turbo" meant oil-burning and unreliable. Until someone came in and did it right, without regards to what had come before. Apple created the tablet market. There had been tablets before, but no market for them. There was a market for them like touchpad and touchpoint are separate markets. It was a funky laptop market until Apple stepped in and showed everyone else how it was done. Well, the Kindle may have made a name for itself, but it was a reader, not a tablet.

    11. Re:Who cares? by Golden_Rider · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I went with a kindle instead of an iPad not for the price and not for the size, but because of the eInk display. It makes for a much nicer reading than any display I had sofar. Of course this makes the kindle solely a book-reading device. But for this, it's close to optimal.

      Have to agree here. I, too, have a Kindle (the older non-touch one), and it is close to perfect for reading text. Which is what I personally want to do with my "reader device", I could not care less about a colour display or web browsing / facebooking / whatever. I just want to read books I purchase on amazon or texts/manga I upload via USB. The eInk display is absolutely perfect for that, especially when reading outdoors on a sunny day - but even indoors, it feels (at least to me) far more comfortable on the eyes than a backlit display.

      If Apple a new "iPad Mini", it will probably have some uber awesome "retina" display and cost upwards of $300 - and any ebook reader with an eInk display will still be better for reading books and have a longer battery life, too.

    12. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No one is still using a 10 (let alone 15) year old laptop for anything. Certainly no one I'd listen to regarding my technology choices.

    13. Re:Who cares? by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apple's laptops last ten to 15 years and can be passed down in the family.

      Oh wow! People are still using PowerBook G3s?

      The only person using a 10-15 year old Mac laptop are the poor people in Ethiopia who were gifted them as some part of charity program, or some kids children being mentally abused by their anti-nerd father. I don't think I've even seen one of those fluro coloured Macbooks in 3 years and they were all the rage before the aluminium look era.

      Incidentally I also have a fully working Dell Inspiron 4100 here. It was a cheap laptop when I bought it and still works as good as it did that day. I use it every so often as a science experiment (literally data collection since it has a serial port). This works very well because unlike any Apple portable product which becomes essentially useless after a few years without a power cord I bought two Inspiron 4100 batteries about 4 months ago and the laptop happily hums away for 8-10 hours at a time unsupervised (dual battery slots).

      You can keep justifying your expensive habit anyway you want.

  2. Surface is 10 inch. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    "The past few months have seen Google and Microsoft unveil their 7-inch tablet offerings — the Nexus 7 and Microsoft Surface, respectively"

    Nope. Surface is a 10 inch tablet.

  3. Eink by sehryan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Put the focus back where it belongs for their particular devices - Eink.

    There are a ton of people who don't want to look at yet another computer screen when they are reading, which is why those people (me included) go for the Eink devices instead of the 7" tablets.

    That is the space that made them popular, and that is the space they need to put the focus back on as a differentiating - and positive selling - factor.

    --
    The world moves for love. It kneels before it in awe.
    1. Re:Eink by wvmarle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And battery life.

      These Kindles may not continue forever, they do last very very long on a charge - Amazon claims up to two months, based on half an hour reading a day, so about 30 hours of constant use.

      The iPad 3 is reported to last only around six hours.

    2. Re:Eink by Havenwar · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm almost ashamed to mention but you might not have noticed the slight flaw in your comment there. 12 is actually less than 30. The point of the E-ink devices are the longer battery life, specifically because they don't have to be recharged every night. You might be tied to an outlet yourself, but some of us actually leave such luxuries behind for more than 12 hours in a row at times, and then a less power hungry device for a very low-tech task is quite appreciated.

      You can bring an e-ink device with you camping for a week and get a few hours reading in every day. Can't do that with a tablet. Plus you can read it in full sunshine! And yes, it doesn't have a backlight so it's useless in the dark... but then a separate little campinglight works quite well and uses a lot less energy per hour used than all the extra power a tablet uses just to keep that screen glowing.

      So it's no contest, really, if all you want to do is read OR if you want to be able to stay away for a few days without having to hit a power outlet... then it's E-ink all the way. It's apples and oranges.

    3. Re:Eink by tibman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Might as well hold onto your books. I've been trying to sell mine and it's a waste of time. The used-book store offers a quarter a book (about 3% of the price i paid). Online sales are better but you have to factor in packaging costs and fuel. Sounds silly that packaging costs would matter but if it costs 20cents for packaging and 60cents in fuel then that 2$ book sale only made you 1.20$ (15% of original price). If you add up all the hours you'll spend managing them and shipping them one by one.. total waste.

      My suggestion is to donate them someplace that really needs them. A school, a prison, or a deployed unit in Afghanistan.

      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
  4. Why should they care? by Ami+Ganguli · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Kindle hardware is just a channel to sell e-books. If Kindle hardware sales dry up due to competition from other tables, it's not a problem as long as the other devices that people buy support the Kindle App.

    --
    It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
    1. Re:Why should they care? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If Kindle hardware sales dry up due to competition from other tables, it's not a problem as long as the other devices that people buy support the Kindle App.

      The problem is that Apple has slowly been making it harder to make its devices sale channels (unless you're willing to pay the Apple tax). Not only they forced Amazon to remove in-app book purchasing, they even made them to remove the button that would take the user to Amazon's Kindle web store in the browser. Right now Kindle app on iOS is a plain reader only, and you have to know where to buy the books on your own.

      On the other hand, there's iBooks, which is more prominently there (every iOS device bugs you to install iBooks as soon as you open the app store), and lets you browse the books and buy them, not just read them. I suspect Apple is diverting quite a few iOS users who'd otherwise go to Amazon that way.

  5. It's all about the content by HTMLSpinnr · · Score: 4, Informative

    Amazon and Nook are all about consuming content. Initial tear-downs of the Kindle Fire purported them to be built at a loss, or at the very least, sold "at-cost". The profits are in App sales, Kindle books, Newsstand subscriptions, and Music/Video content.

    Thus, if their consumers are running iPad minis, Amazon already has most of that taken care of. There's a Kindle app for iPhone and iPad, and they've recently released the Cloud Player (music) for iPhone and Amazon Instant Video app for iPad. Those loyal to their content will still be consuming it, regardless of the device. Amazon doesn't have a foothold in all facets of iPad like they do in Kindle Fire or other Android devices (i.e. Appstore), but it's "good enough", right?

    To a lesser extent, same applies for B&N. NOOK apps are available for both.

    Now the risk for both of these companies is those who aren't loyal to a content provider and the default presence of iTunes.

    --
    $ man woman *
    -bash: /usr/bin/man: Argument list too long
  6. Re:E-Ink by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They'll survive because nobody with two brain cells to rub together enjoys reading on a backlit and always-refreshing screen.

    Spoken by a person reading slashdot on a "backlit and always-refreshing screen".

  7. E-ink by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Amazon, B&N and all the others will survive because they have E-ink screens, which are far superior (and, sadly, more expensive) for their specialized purpose.
    If people wanted a color 7" tablet to do more than just reading, e-readers would have been gone from the market already. The only benefit a dedicated e-reader has over one of those cheap 7" no-name Android tablets is the screen. Even the cheapest Android tablet outperforms an e-reader in every way... except the screen.

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  8. Re:Idea by andy16666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most Apple customers these days aren't part of the fanbase. They're just regular people lately.

  9. How will Apple survive the price drop in tablets? by Animats · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Tablet computers are becoming a commodity. A 7" tablet from China is only $70. On Amazon, you can now get Android tablets from $60. Since the Allwinner ARM system on a chip came out for $7, with no US intellectual property to run up the price, the compute power in low-end tablets has been quite impressive. Tablet computers are going to be something you buy in a blister pack at the convenience store.

    How will Apple, with all their expensive stores on expensive real estate, and a business built on huge markups, deal with that? Their pricing is around $400, over five times the price of the competition. They can't maintain that margin.

    There's a market for luxury items. The CEO of Rolex says "We are not in the watch business, we are in the luxury business. The volumes are small. Apple is too big a company to take that route. Apple may have to try coming out with lower-priced lines to compete.

  10. Re:E-Ink by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No, it's not. Books - especially fiction books - are 99% text with the most basic layout possible, and minimal typesetting differences throughout the book. Your typical website has a far more complicated layout and typesetting requirements, often uses color, and generally requires scrolling (rather than page flipping) to conveniently read. Not to mention the whole interactive angle with clicking links; books only have an occasional footnote.

  11. Re:E-Ink by macs4all · · Score: 3, Informative

    They'll survive because nobody with two brain cells to rub together enjoys reading on a backlit and always-refreshing screen.

    You do realize, of course, that active-matrix LCDs (like the IPS panels used in ALL Apple products) do not "flicker" (like the unavoidable consequence of "always-refreshing" CRTs).

    Flicker in LCDs does NOT come from "refresh"; but rather from asymmetric-drive signals. Modern LCDs have hardware compensation for this. Hence, they don't flicker. At all.

    This is why reading text on an LCD is much less fatiguing than reading it on, say, a CRT. e-Ink displays are also "comfortable" for this same reason; but that's not the point: The point is that properly-designed active-matrix LCDs don't flicker any more than e-Ink displays, at least as far as human eyes are concerned. And until the U.N. Non-Human Rights Treaty passes in 2030, we don't have to worry about making displays tuned to horses, dogs, cats and pigs.

  12. Re:How will Apple survive the price drop in tablet by assertation · · Score: 3, Informative

    People have been saying that about Apple since Apple existed. They have come out with a few lower priced things over the years, but those products came and went while the expensive stuff remained.

  13. Re:How will Apple survive the price drop in tablet by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There's a market for luxury items. The CEO of Rolex says "We are not in the watch business, we are in the luxury business. The volumes are small. Apple is too big a company to take that route. Apple may have to try coming out with lower-priced lines to compete.

    You have a good point, and I used to think the same, but consider that Apple has been selling high-priced laptops for over a decade, despite the emergence of $350 laptops, they still manage to sell them for $2000+. Not only do they sell them, their marketshare is increasing. I don't claim to understand HOW they do this, but they do. And so far, they've managed to keep selling iPads for some reason, too.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  14. Umm, how will they (and Apple) survive the Nexus? by edremy · · Score: 3, Informative
    I spent the last week with a Nexus 7- it simply blows the Fire and Nook away. It's not even close.

    For that matter, it blows away the iPad as well. After using it for a week, going back to iOS feels like going back in time. The Nexus is easier to use, more flexible, more responsive and it just plain feels slicker. I suspect an honest comparison between an iPad mini and the Nexus won't come up too well for the iPad. I'm sure it will still be bought in droves by the faithful, but Apple's been passed by Google.

    --
    "Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
  15. Pricing will be a challenge for Apple by JDG1980 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Assuming they actually do release it (has anything official been announced yet?), Apple is going to have a hard time setting a good price for the iPad Mini.

    The Nook Tablet, Kindle Fire, and Nexus 7 all start at $199. Therefore, Apple won't be able to price the iPad Mini much more than $250 unless they want to be seriously beat out on price by A-list competitors. It's one thing to be beaten on price by bottom-of-the-barrel crap like Archos, but until now, the iPad has been quite competitive on price with equivalently powerful systems from A-list vendors such as Samsung. No other 10-inch tablet provides equal performance to the iPad at a substantially cheaper price. In fact, no consumer tablet at any price can beat the iPad 3's display resolution. Apple's success comes not only from providing a slicker product, but also from the fact that they've pretty much abolished the "Apple tax" on portable hardware, and used their supply chain dominance to leverage prices way down.

    At the same time, Apple can't sell the iPad Mini for much cheaper than the iPad 2 ($399), because if they do, it will cost them a substantial number of sales on the better hardware. A lot of tablet users would gladly drop from 10 inches to 7 inches to save $150, if the user experience is otherwise the same. Apple doesn't want to cannibalize its own profit margins on their high-end tablets.

    I'm sure their marketers have crunched all the numbers. My prediction: if the iPad Mini does see production, it will start at $249 or $299 for the cheapest model. Just low enough to lure over a decent number of Nexus/Kindle/Nook users, just high enough to keep the iPad 2 competitive. Also, the screen resolution will be 1024x768.

  16. Re:How will Apple survive the price drop in tablet by sootman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And there are cheaper music players than iPods, and cheaper laptops than MacBooks, and yet somehow Apple has turned into the biggest company on the planet than isn't a bank or oil concern. Apple is selling more and more computers, phones, and tablets year over year, every year. (The only thing that's going down is their iPod sales because everyone's buying iPhones instead.) The whole market is growing--people are buying tablets who never bought computers, and cell phones are literally going to hit the points where 99% of the PLANET owns one. (Did you know their iPhone business--something that didn't even exist five years ago--is bigger than the entirety of Microsoft?)

    Apple is not a niche, small-volume luxury company like Rolex. You're comparing a multi-hundred dollar, multi-feature device to a multi-thousand dollar, single-function device--of course Rolex is going to have orders of magnitude less volume.

    I always laugh when posts like yours get high "Insightful" mods. You're cherry-picking all these little facts here and there while ignoring the hundred-billion-dollar elephant in the room.

    > How will Apple, with all their expensive stores on
    > expensive real estate, and a business built on
    > huge markups, deal with that?

    LOL. Have you ever heard "you've got to spend money to make money"? Apple retail stores have the highest profit per square foot ratio of any retail chain by a HUGE margin. (Almost 2x higher than #2, Tiffany.) And it's been like that for five years.

    Also: you really think all these companies with razor-thin margins are going to thrive in Apple's place? You can ask Dell how well that strategy worked for them long-term. And have you ever used a generic tablet? I have, and they all suck in every way you can imagine. Apple's resources give them the ability to make things people actually want.

    I'm not saying Apple will reign forever, but it will take them a LONG time to fall.

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  17. In the UK, it's almost all vapourware by rklrkl · · Score: 4, Funny

    Another US-centric story I see. Here in the UK, the story reads to me as "unreleased Kindle Fire and unreleased Nook Color vs. rumoured unreleased iPad Mini and unreleased MS Surface and - shock horror - released Nexus 7". In other words, a pretty useless story for non-US citizens - please try harder next time. Oh, and yes, I have a Nexus 7 because that *has* been released outside the US and is therefore the default 7" tablet winner in my books.