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Intellectual Ventures Tied To 1,300 Shell Companies

dgharmon writes "New research (PDF) shows that Intellectual Ventures is tied to at least 1,300 shell companies whose sole purpose is to coerce real companies into buying patent license that they don't want or need. Those who resist the 'patent trolls' are dragged into nightmarish lawsuits."

140 comments

  1. Ah yes, the American dream... by Yvanhoe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It is strange but many IT entrepreneurs in France don't see the silicon valley as a dreamland. This is a place where you go to get investors, but you certainly don't open a company there. Software patents is really a strategical consideration that make our (moderately) higher tax rates seem a worthy cost.

    --
    The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    1. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would think IT entreprenuers would go to Asia for precisely those reasons and for the cheaper labor. Also, for the "access" to other companies technology and innovation in order to have a "look" - shall we say.

    2. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Daetrin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't worry, with today's globalization if you don't come to the patent infringement lawsuits, the patent infringement lawsuits will come to you. After all, the fact that neither Samsung nor Apple is a French company hasn't stopped them from suing each other in France (along with everywhere else.)

      --
      This Space Intentionally Left Blank
    3. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Funny

      It is strange but many IT entrepreneurs in France don't see the silicon valley as a dreamland.

      Ah yes, France, the Mecca of fine IT judgement.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    4. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by yincrash · · Score: 0

      Except if your company actually becomes successful, there is nothing stopping China from just taking it and making it state owned.

    5. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well... not sure about France but I can say that I was thinking about trying to launch a software company and I was definitelly looking for other jurisdictions...

    6. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There is no relation whatsoever between tax rates and software patents. If you want to talk about higher tax rates, you could point out that you can focus on running your business instead of providing health care for your employees.

      Personally, I wouldn't start a company in Silicon Valley unless I was trying to raise VC lucre and sell out as soon as possible. High cost of living, terrible state bureaucracy, etc.

    7. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by kthreadd · · Score: 0

      But they make business in France, that's why.

    8. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by loneDreamer · · Score: 1

      There is other countries in Asia apart from China...

    9. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean how like how in the US the government can take away your business and give the property to some mega-corp with deep government ties via eminent domain?

    10. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Yvanhoe · · Score: 2

      Yes, it would be good if you kept your hobbyists on your side of the Atlantic, but as much as I find these lawsuits frivolous, it is worth noticing that these were about design patents, not software patents which are still illegal and untested in France.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    11. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I built my first company in the Silicon Valley, sold it, build my second company in Silicon Valley, sold it, and build my third company in Asia
       
      Why?
       
      Not because of "cheaper labor", hacking cost is universal, whether it's in Silicon Valley or in Asia
       
      I built my third company in Asia because I could plenty of talents in Asia, while on the other hand, the younger batch who moved to Silicon Valley are there not because of their interest in hacking but because of money - Technology do not progress because of money, technology progress because of people who want to do something different
       

      --
      Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    12. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Ryanrule · · Score: 0

      Yes, it sucks to pay people what they are worth, and to pay taxes that support those people through infrastructure, education, and safety.

    13. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by kenorland · · Score: 1

      And that's why France has such a thriving startup business culture, right?

    14. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Well Duh. French citizens probably want to work in France. No surprise. But certainly it is a nice place to work too if you're American. Cost of living is high, but it's also high in a lot of areas with a booming economy. Weather is nice, the region is great, etc. You just have to put up with the militant cyclists and occasional hipsters from SF (though they rarely venture outside their safety zone).

    15. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It is strange but many IT entrepreneurs in France don't see the silicon valley as a dreamland.

      I live in Silicon Valley, and I know about a dozen current or former French citizens working here. Starting an IT business in France will give you plenty of bureaucracy and taxes, but no protection from patent lawsuits. You can be sued anywhere you do business, and for most IT companies that means worldwide from the very beginning. I started my first company more than twenty years ago, and was surprised when I announced my first product and my first five orders were all from outside the USA.

    16. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by The+Snowman · · Score: 1

      You mean how like how in the US the government can take away your business and give the property to some mega-corp with deep government ties via eminent domain?

      How often does this really happen, though?

      --
      24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
    17. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by fm6 · · Score: 0, Troll

      And of course in Asia, your female employees can't sue you. Judging from your previously expressed complaints about "political correctness", that must have been an issue.

      As a tech writer, I've collaborated with developers in China, Japan, South America, India, and Russia. And yes, they all were driven by a desire to create and innovate. But so have most of the hackers I've worked with in Silicon Valley. If you couldn't find anybody with that ethic in the U.S., I think you probably have issues that go beyond geography.

    18. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Splab · · Score: 2

      But those aren't *software* patents.

    19. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You don't understand. Europeans have a mission from god to let everybody else know what they do, and why what other countries are doing is wrong.

      Well at least we don't use that viewpoint as a pretense to invade other countries.

    20. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The GP is right. People flock to Silicon Valley from India/China/elsewhere in Asia because of the money, not because of the job(s).

      The job is the means to the end and that end is money.

    21. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is strange but many IT entrepreneurs in France don't see the silicon valley as a dreamland. This is a place where you go to get investors, but you certainly don't open a company there. Software patents is really a strategical consideration that make our (moderately) higher tax rates seem a worthy cost.

      I have a IT company in France, and I have one in the UK too. And much as I love the place, I have to correct you.

      The only reason my IT company in France is still open, is that its the only legal way for me to be resident here and work from home as it takes on subcon work from the UK company so that I can do the labor side of it. Nobody in their right mind would *choose* to base in the sprawling mess of legislation, visits to the chambiers du metiers, social taxes, rules around business operation and employment and finally having a french accountant (in reality, they really work for the state, at your cost and to your detriment).
      I'd close the French SARL in a flash and get my business out of dodge if I found a viable legal alternative. Of course we're talking smaller startups here, not large companies, but from little seedlings mighty oaks grow. The culture is terrible too, I know all about the weeks in august where almost nothing gets done because whole companies pont their holidays to those weeks and it lets you take 4 days off and get 3 weeks holidays. Great for staff, terrible for the companies and a hidden cost. God help me when we have a infrastructure issue in that period because we work uk holidays. Skeleton staff if we're lucky...

      I worked in Sophia Antipolis too for a while for a exceedingly well known french company, and... I still wouldn't choose to work for a french company, in France, given the choice. Cutting through the middle management and chinese walls everyone erects to protect their little cozy corner of the business, sorry, I'd rather be flayed to death by scented bootlaces or take up a role as corporate snowball juggler through hell. Which is probably why I work for my own company taking consulting work from other countries...

    22. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And we haven't been taking orders from god for some time now

    23. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not because of "cheaper labor", hacking cost is universal, whether it's in Silicon Valley or in Asia

      Um, what? Cost is going to cheaper where the pay is less. What are you on about?

    24. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a difference between paying them and paying leeches aka many unions who have hangers on that don't do shit but are on the payroll one way or another.

    25. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by kelemvor4 · · Score: 2

      You mean how like how in the US the government can take away your business and give the property to some mega-corp with deep government ties via eminent domain?

      How often does this really happen, though?

      You'd be surprised, apparently. There are (numerous) law firms whose sole practice revolves around defending eminent domain defendants. Law firms don't stay in business if there are no citizens to suck dry needing their services.

    26. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by slashrio · · Score: 1

      What, you were not 'active' in Libya and are not 'active' in Syria?

      --
      "Trump!!", the new Godwin.
    27. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by slashrio · · Score: 1

      American income tax is unconstitutional and only serves for paying the banks their interest over the money they loan to the government but print for free.
      Your income tax isn't going to any infrastructure other than that of the banks.

      --
      "Trump!!", the new Godwin.
    28. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      How can someone with such poor English skills create companies? You have errors in every single sentence!

    29. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Need to create a company? There's an app for that! If not there will be.

    30. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How can someone with such poor English skills create companies? You have errors in every single sentence!

      English is likely not his/her first language... How many languages do you speak fluently??

    31. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Overrated? OK Mr teabagger, waste another point on me, because Ryanrule's comment was insightful and I'm repeating it. Flamebait, overrated, redundant, fine, I have a lot more karma than you have mod points. Mod away, baby. Maybe wasting points on me will keep you from unfairly modding someone else.

      Ryanrule said Yes, it sucks to pay people what they are worth, and to pay taxes that support those people through infrastructure, education, and safety.

    32. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Thuktun · · Score: 1

      You mean how like how in the US the government can take away your business and give the property to some mega-corp with deep government ties via eminent domain?

      How often does this really happen, though?

      One notable example from my neck of the woods are the businesses shunted out of the way so that Richfield could offer Best Buy a choice spot for their new corporate headquarters using eminent domain and tax-increment financing.

      http://caselaw.findlaw.com/mn-court-of-appeals/1073064.html
      http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/05/realestate/05domain.html

      A smaller business and residences were basically kicked out to make space for a big fish, all in the name of larger tax revenue. This wasn't even "deep government ties", this was an external business the city was trying to court into moving in.

    33. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How can someone with such poor English skills create companies? You have errors in every single sentence!

      Maybe he Asian.

    34. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Ryanrule · · Score: 1

      Fine, do that. I hope you SOLD your company though, because anything you ship over there is theirs now, asshole.

    35. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by doccus · · Score: 1

      Actually, I was surprised that you had to go to the lengths you did to state your point here, on /. I would have thought that the fact that France, like Greece and Spain, had to come begging with "hat in hand" to it's EEC overlords, due to a "minor financial imbalance" would make it obvious what the business climate in these countries is like. After all, they didn't get there (in the soup) for no reason at all!

    36. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My state can't print money and they tax my income. I think your argument just broke.

    37. Re:Ah yes, the American dream... by slashrio · · Score: 1

      The constitution is about limiting the authority of the federal government, not of the individual states, except for the cases mentioned in the constitution where the federal government got the authority to rule.
      I think your argument was a non-one.

      --
      "Trump!!", the new Godwin.
  2. and this surprises by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    who?

    1. Re:and this surprises by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what?

    2. Re:and this surprises by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i don't know

    3. Re:and this surprises by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      naturally

  3. FTFA by Daetrin · · Score: 4, Funny

    Patent trolling took off after the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office began issuing a flood of questionable âoebusiness methodâ patents related to things like software and, believe it or not, a crustless peanut butter and jelly sandwich. In 2006, lawyers used such a patent to threaten Research in Motion with an injunction against the BlackBerry and extract a $612 million payout.

    Well that's clearly why the BlackBerry has been having trouble in the market, RIM spent too much of their product development time working on sandwiches, and patent infringing sandwiches at that.

    --
    This Space Intentionally Left Blank
    1. Re:FTFA by game+kid · · Score: 3, Funny

      I agree. They should've used ice cream instead of peanut butter and jelly, before Google could've caught on to that idea.

      --
      You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
    2. Re:FTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Patent trolling took off after the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office began issuing a flood of questionable âoebusiness methodâ patents related to things like software and, believe it or not, a crustless peanut butter and jelly sandwich. In 2006, lawyers used such a patent to threaten Research in Motion with an injunction against the BlackBerry and extract a $612 million payout.

      I can't post a simple (cent symbol) which is in fact part of US English normal symbol set and yet this quote has a lot of accented chars... why? Because it's quoted text?

    3. Re:FTFA by Smallpond · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Patent trolling took off after the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office began issuing a flood of questionable âoebusiness methodâ patents related to things like software and, believe it or not, a crustless peanut butter and jelly sandwich. In 2006, lawyers used such a patent to threaten Research in Motion with an injunction against the BlackBerry and extract a $612 million payout.

      Well that's clearly why the BlackBerry has been having trouble in the market, RIM spent too much of their product development time working on sandwiches, and patent infringing sandwiches at that.

      Blackberry is an obvious mistake. The crustless PB&J uses strawberry.

      Anyway, why hasn't someone pointed out that Intellectual Ventures was founded by the ex-CTO of Microsoft Nathan Myhrvold and still partners with Microsoft on patent deals. Are all the MS haters asleep?

    4. Re:FTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyway, why hasn't someone pointed out that Intellectual Ventures was founded by the ex-CTO of Microsoft Nathan Myhrvold and still partners with Microsoft on patent deals. Are all the MS haters asleep?

      Because that's assumed public knowledge around here, I guess

  4. Old news by jeti · · Score: 4, Informative

    This American Life reported this over a year ago. The podcast is well worth hearing:
    http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/441/when-patents-attack/

  5. What happened to the days of hitmen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    This is one person who actually does deserve to die. Painfully.

    You know there is an obvious failure in society when shit people like him can get away with doing so much damage to thousands, possibly even millions of people through the effort that actual decent people were putting in to help the poor.

    Funny how regulators and law get involved when a company is copying other people, but when it is a BLATANTLY obvious troll like this, HE GETS AWAY WITH IT. IN A COURTROOM. WHY?! ARE THESE PEOPLE STUPID? Every single one of those judges should be locked up for being clinically unstable.

    1. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by postbigbang · · Score: 4, Funny

      Dude, put down the whiskey now, and stay out of Colorado, k?

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    2. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by ocean_soul · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The trolls very rarely get away with this stuff in a courtroom. Most of the time they settle out of court, because the defendant does not have the resources (in case of a small company) or it's just cheaper for them (in case of larger companies defending). Patent trolls are, most of the time, very scared of actually having to go to court. If this happens they will probably lose. And if they lose a dangerous, at least for them, precedent would be set.

    3. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The trolls very rarely get away with this stuff in a courtroom. Most of the time they settle out of court, because the defendant does not have the resources (in case of a small company) or it's just cheaper for them (in case of larger companies defending). Patent trolls are, most of the time, very scared of actually having to go to court. If this happens they will probably lose. And if they lose a dangerous, at least for them, precedent would be set.

      Funny, these guys don't seem scared.

    4. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by andydread · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yep .. See Oracle vs Google. If Oracle had asked for a reasonable ransom maybe Google would have just payed it and be done with it. However Oracle asked for billions of dollars and so Google told them to go fuck sand. So the sued and many of their patents got re-examined and thrown out by the USPTO while other patents were found by the jury NOT to have been infringed by Google. This is the nightmare scenario that trolls fear. Also, see Judge Willian Alsup and Judge Richard Posner. Its mostly in the Eastern District of Texas they can consistently get a away with this crap.

    5. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by amiga3D · · Score: 3, Informative

      Apple is one of the few patent trolls that actually produces a product. They don't have to live in fear. They have lots of money, lots of patents, and a huge market with an actual profit margin. They're a beast.

    6. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 4, Informative

      In the usual parlance, the fact that Apple makes competing products clears the of the trolling charge. They only sue direct competitors AFAICT. When you competewith Apple you know you're competimg and you know you could be sued. Trolls lie in wait with patents you don't expect because they don't make a product you could compete with.

    7. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey you, around here we get drunk on one thing and one thing only, water.

      And blackjack.

    8. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by realisticradical · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think this situation is pretty clear evidence against the existence of corporate hit men who take out people who harm the big businesses. I'm sure there are plenty of execs who wish they had the ability to get rid of this guy. But since he's still around it's pretty clear that they don't.

    9. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by amiga3D · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I believe having a portfolio full of bullshit obvious, vague and simple patents and using them to intimidate and vanquish competition qualifies as trolling as well.

    10. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One fraction of man-eating lizards demands from another faction of man-eating lizards billions of
      snakes on a stick ($). Usually they throw each other a bone when something like that comes up,
      but not when one side gets too greedy. The lizards took the matter before another group of
      man-eating lizards who arbitrate and mediate between factions. This time around these black robed arbitrators
      slapped one faction around the ears and told them to go 'fuck sand' (borrowing that from the above post).

      The lizards use snakes on a stick as a unit of exchange to acquire supplies and slave labor. This
      ensures that only the most successful projects for managing livestock on the planet are continued and
      those that do not produce results are rapidly terminated. For this reason there is strong competition
      between projects with the goal of acquiring as many snakes on a stick exchange units as possible.

    11. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't whack each other, they just whack little munchkins like yourself nobody has ever heard of (and then will never hear of again).

    12. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Also, see Judge Willian Alsup and Judge Richard Posner.

      Yes, these two are amazing. Any judge who learns to program Java for a trial deserves credit.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    13. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2

      People believe all sorts of things.

      Patent troll is a pejorative term used for a person or company who enforces patents against one or more alleged infringers in a manner considered aggressive or opportunistic with no intention to manufacture or market the patented invention.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_troll

    14. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by sjames · · Score: 1

      We don't have a good term for what Apple does. As you point out, it isn't QUITE trolling since they are producing products. However, they certainly do seem to be employing the same sleezy tactics.

    15. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Fine, Apple is a patent douche, happy now?

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    16. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by FranTaylor · · Score: 2

      It IS trolling when apple sues people for making products in markets where apple isn't.

      For example the $200 tablet is not competing with the $600 tablet. If I want to buy a google nexus 7 there is NO WAY I am going to end up with an ipad, and vice versa.

    17. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by Maow · · Score: 1

      Also, see Judge Willian Alsup and Judge Richard Posner.

      Yes, these two are amazing. Any judge who learns to program Java for a trial deserves credit.

      I seem to recall that the judge had learned Java previously for reasons unrelated to the trial, perhaps as a hobby.

      Did you hear otherwise, and if so, have you got a link? That would be quite a feat and a sign of being dedicated to his job.

    18. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by VortexCortex · · Score: 2

      We don't have a good term for what Apple does. As you point out, it isn't QUITE trolling since they are producing products. However, they certainly do seem to be employing the same sleezy tactics.

      Those sleazy tactics involve weaving a collection of questionable or down right bogus patents into a lawsuit, then casting it any and all opponents in the hopes to hamper them or catch a few who are unable to litigate, thus netting huge settlements. Sounds pretty much like the definition of trolling to me -- Drag-Net is another name for trolling too. Have you ever even been fishing before? Or has the Internet leached away all other reality leaving only it's pedantically demented definition of "troll" in tact and removing any connection to its basis in the aforementioned fishing acts?

    19. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Informative

      I think he programmed previously as a hobby, but he learned Java for the trial.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    20. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by dell623 · · Score: 1

      It's the same market. I am not a big fan of Apple, but you're kidding yourself if you think a 7" tablet has no impact on the iPad, even if Apple do not release a smaller iPad. Think of it this way, how many people are going to buy both a 7" tablet and a 10" tablet? Most will buy one or the other and live with the compromises. Just like most people will either get an ultrabook or a more portly larger laptop. They won't get both.

    21. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by gutnor · · Score: 1

      How that would make all the other companies in the sector that also have a bs patents portfolio but chose to cross license it instead ? We were told/sold in the past that big companies only got patent to defend themselves - you know, for the greater good. That is false, they use their patent portfolio to intimidate (cross license or we sue) and raise the barrier of entry in the market.(better not enter our market until you can pay the ticket in)

      Since Apple has started suing other companies instead of cross-licensing like a good boy, it seems that there are lawsuits left and right between all the big players. In /. parlance, that makes a flamebait, not a troll.

    22. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Much better. And now you know what a patent troll is!

    23. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Since when is wikipedia a good citation? Especially about something controversial, like he meaning of a twenty year old word? Remember, anybody can edit it, you don't have to be a lexicographer, all you need is an opinion enough others share. How about http://dictionary.reference.com/

      Main Entry: patent troll
      Part of Speech: n
      Definition: a company that purchases a patent, esp. from a bankrupt firm, and then sues another company claiming that one of its products infringes on the purchased patent
      Etymology: 1993
      Usage: derogatory; also patent trolling, (n.)

      Although I'm afraid the definition is a bit nebulous, it's not in Webster's.

    24. Re:What happened to the days of hitmen? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      But to a very different effect. Apple is trying to clear away competition so it can increase its market share so they will sell more product. Trolls want you to sell lots of product, but reap a hefty share of your profits via the legal system and/or extortion.

  6. But Nathan says... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Clearly, this is God's work.

    1. Re:But Nathan says... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Fuck Nathan and his buddies Balmer and Elop. These asshats know exactly what they are doing. This is a systemic campaign to abuse the system to destroy any FOSS competition in the market.

  7. nightmarish lawsuits by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

    Ahhh... The system works, perfectly. It actually runs itself. Who could ask for more?

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  8. Look people, this is Corporatism at its finest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First you write the laws. Then you exploit the laws to punish others.

    This is why anarchy is best. Down with false property!

  9. that's 1300x the job creation! by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Funny

    Intellectual Ventures are true American heroes!

    1. Re:that's 1300x the job creation! by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      You're a master of spin. You should be in politics.

    2. Re:that's 1300x the job creation! by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      If they make lots of money for their clients, then they certainly are.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    3. Re:that's 1300x the job creation! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He should be working for Intellectual Ventures!

      You're hired! No, not you, Trepidity!
      Hell, you're hired as well, you pointed out great genius, you must be one of them too!
      Threegether we could rule the universe!

    4. Re:that's 1300x the job creation! by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      their clients

      Who??

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    5. Re:that's 1300x the job creation! by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      and be crowned King Nothing!

  10. Intellectual bondage? by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

    It says they're "tied to at least" blah-blah companies.
    They're asking for it, so who brought the whip?

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
  11. Patent Trolls by NonSenseAgency · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sounds like a clear case for the application of the Rico Act.

  12. hey now by phantomfive · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    tied to at least 1,300 shell companies

    Hey now, don't forget corporations are people! This story is racist.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:hey now by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      So? Soylent Green is people, too, but I don't hear anyone campaigning for its rights.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:hey now by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      You're right, we really need to start a campaign for the protection of soylents.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:hey now by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm more leaning towards mincing corporations to feed the hungry.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:hey now by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      No doubt that will be effective.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re:hey now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoa, ease up there, we've already got a malnutrition problem in this country, we don't need to poison our wells any more..

  13. nightmarish lawsuits? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Perhaps Kafka needs to assert his IP at this point???
    The Trial

    Oh wait....

  14. Wow... Organized Crime? by joocemann · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This sounds *exactly* like how organized crime (mobs) operate. Where the hell is the FBI I'm paying for? Will they please focus on relevant issues?!?!?!

    1. Re:Wow... Organized Crime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nope, too busy working for the MPAA/RIAA raiding foreign websites on controversial and/or illegal grounds.

    2. Re:Wow... Organized Crime? by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Insightful

      To point out the obvious, the FBI investigates crimes. Smart criminals decide to not break the law, because then they get the police on their side.

      What these guys are doing is not illegal, just anti-social.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:Wow... Organized Crime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Sounds like" organized crime? If it walk like a duck and talks like a duck...

      Most of organized crime is oriented around finding legal loopholes to 'legitimize' their scams. Have no doubt the mafia are chest deep in the IP muck.

    4. Re:Wow... Organized Crime? by joocemann · · Score: 4, Informative

      It is illegal to conspire or collude for the purpose of extortion, and it is also illegal to burden the courts with persistent unreasonable litigation.

      The real Mob conducts their 'crime' in similar ways that, on the surface, appear legal. What you see in movies/HBO is not what really goes down.

      This documentary will stream on netflix. You will see why it was hard for the FBI to crack down on the Mob -- that they conducted themselves very much within the scheme of what has the appearance of legal activity.

      http://www.cnbc.com/id/43392317/?__source=vty|mobmoney|&par=vty

      If you don't watch it to learn what I mean, I'll give you a breakdown of one example given in the film.

      1) Dude1: decides to build a new construction in a place with mob influence.

      2) Wiseguy1/Wiseguy2 stop by and have a casual conversation about how Dude1 *will* buy his concrete from "Legit Company A", a company that charges about $1/cu.ft. over normal market prices.

      If Dude1 agrees, life goes on as normal and it would appear that Dude1 isn't a good shopper.

      If Dude1 disagrees....

      3) Deliveries from various orders needed for the business never come.
      4) Protests/Picket-lines show up at the build site.

      If Dude1 still disagrees.....

      5) Wiseguy1/Wiseguy2 have a physical intervention that changes Dude1's mind, or ends Dude1.

      ---------

      It isn't a reach to say that the topic at hand follows these same 'on paper' techniques to extort money. It is very much the same a minor difference being that the lawyers don't actually do physical intimidation, but rather legal.

      I hope this has been informative.

    5. Re:Wow... Organized Crime? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The real Mob conducts their 'crime' in similar ways that, on the surface, appear legal.

      You're saying that the Mafia doesn't kill people, doesn't sell drugs, and doesn't destroy property to intimidate people? Right.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    6. Re:Wow... Organized Crime? by ByronHope · · Score: 1

      The lawyers do use physical intimidation, if you don't act as directed by a court the Police will physically take action. The Law is the ultimate form of physical intimidation.

    7. Re:Wow... Organized Crime? by joocemann · · Score: 1

      I didn't say that... here's a hint "...on the surface..."

      Also, anyone that knows the mob knows they do not sell drugs. It brings heat and the real mob isn't as risky as the movie mob.

    8. Re:Wow... Organized Crime? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I didn't say that... here's a hint "...on the surface..."

      Oh, so you're implying under the surface, Intellectual Ventures is killing people? Or some other illegal activity?

      Also, anyone that knows the mob knows they do not sell drugs.

      Things that 'anyone knows' are often wrong. I don't even know why you think that. I mean, maybe they don't, but they sure get accused of it. And why not? It's profitable.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    9. Re:Wow... Organized Crime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This sounds *exactly* like how organized crime (mobs) operate. Where the hell is the FBI I'm paying for? Will they please focus on relevant issues?!?!?!

      Nope...they are too busy surveilling the guy operating the corner 7-11.

    10. Re:Wow... Organized Crime? by joocemann · · Score: 1

      Watch the documentary I linked earlier so you can understand this conversation. Your quick google search to 'prove' the mob deals drugs is irrelevant and likely an outlier/deviant.

      Once you understand how the mob actually works, then you can re-read this whole conversation and see the striking similarites between the mob and this litgious cabal.

      Or you're a troll...

    11. Re:Wow... Organized Crime? by phantomfive · · Score: 1
      I assume you are referring to this link?

      Once you understand how the mob actually works, then you can re-read this whole conversation and see the striking similarites between the mob and this litgious cabal.

      The difference is one stays legal and the other doesn't. both are immoral dirtbags.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  15. Shell companies by machine321 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Summary is wrong, it's actually 1300 Exxon-Mobile companies,.

  16. I don't understand by Crypto+Gnome · · Score: 5, Insightful

    why anyone is complaining so loudly.

    This behaviour is the natural and logical outcome of the current patent system.

    Did anybody seriously expect anything different?

    --
    Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
    1. Re:I don't understand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why on earth would that be a reason not to complain? No matter if I saw it coming or not, I can still be unhappy about it. If the only reaction to being unhappy about something is just to accept it as the natural state of things then nothing will ever improve, things improve when enough people make it clear they don't consider it acceptable. Complaining is part of that process.

  17. They claim to fight parasites? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    (if you don't get it, RTFA)

    Now that's rich... but hey, I have a proposal, why not cut out the middle man? Instead of siphoning away money from real companies to fight mosquitos, just shut down and presto, one of the biggest parasites of today instantly wiped out.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  18. Give IV a break. by sconeu · · Score: 3, Informative

    They're doing G-d's Work.

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    1. Re:Give IV a break. by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Dammit. Someone took me seriously. I was going for "Funny".

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  19. If you pay one, the rest come knockin' by symbolset · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That makes the right strategy "All my wealth for defence, not one dime for tribute." Pay the danegeld and you'll never get rid of the Dane.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  20. FBI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We are busy investigating more cases of who stole naked pictures from a fellow American citizen.

  21. So easy by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When congress finally crafts a law to eliminate patent abuse an easy measure of success is if companies like this are destroyed. Not hurt but close up shop like most of the buggy whip companies. When a company exists only to sue vibrant and healthy companies they are a parasite, that is they provide no value to society while simultaneously damaging it.

    The politicians blah blah about cutting red tape and creating jobs but what about protecting us from evil like this? I can't imagine the flowering of new developments that would take place without bloodsuckers like these.

    One of the things that hold third world countries back is that if you have the slightest bit of success some Mr Big / Warlord / Village chief / Crimelord / Well connected bureaucrat will come along and take whatever you have. There are few property rights in these countries. Yet in the western world the bloodsuckers have perverted the very thing that use to make us successful (property rights) where they do the very thing that those property rights were supposed to prevent.

    My suggestions for IP reform are to significantly raise the bar as to what an invention really is. If someone invents a cool new battery don't let someone patent the use of that battery in everything. Shorten the life of a patent from 20 years to 10 years after the first significant use of that product. (or 20 years whichever comes first)

    Software patents; how about no. Change the lifetimes for different categories of patent. Drug patents, 10 years. Material patents 15 years. Electronic patents 5 years.

    Limit the damages to a tiny percentage of the wholesale value of a product.

    Only allow the original inventors or companies that are implementing the product to launch a lawsuit. If you are sitting on a stack of patents they all you are doing is holding back the progress of humanity.

    If a company has more than 30% of a market then make the licensing of their patents mandatory for a nominal cost.

    Don't let universities charge too much for patents. Yet don't let their professors hive of some research to create a company and then patent the crap out of it.

    Have an independent government department for patent invalidation. Having the patent office invalidate a patent is having them say they were wrong. Also judges need to be able to invalidate a patent.

    Again raise the bar for what gets patented. I'm looking at you one-click-purchase!

    If a suit asks for one amount and wins a much lower amount then the difference should be deducted from the awarded amount. So if they ask for a billion and win 100 million then you subtract 900 million resulting in 0 (zero dollars). This should be for all lawsuits.

    Lastly if a lawfirm sues for a patent that later becomes invalidated then they can be hit with treble damages. (That is treble what they demanded.)

    1. Re:So easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if they ask for a billion and win 100 million then you subtract 900 million resulting in 0 (zero dollars).

      The point of a civil suit (in most countries) is a to undo a civil injustice. Saying "you're a greedy shit, you get nothing" is not the domain of judges. Yes, Johnathan Swift noticed 400 years ago, this incites greedy lawyers.

    2. Re:So easy by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 1

      The point is to make them ask for what might actually be a reasonable amount, instead of abusing the system. If a company worth 10 million is being sued for 1 billion then any sale in progress will collapse. But if they are being sued for $500,000 then the value of the company drops during litigation but can still go through. Also the big number impress the jury. They feel bad knocking 300 million down to the actual value of $30,000 so they don't and knock it down to a few million. But if it had started $50,000 they are more likely to hit the $30,000 that would fit the damages calculated.

      The big number lawsuits just create unnecessary stress.

      This also can destroy other financing. If your bank sees your tiny company being sued for a billion then your line of credit can dry up fast.

    3. Re:So easy by CBravo · · Score: 1

      love your post... thanks

      --
      nosig today
    4. Re:So easy by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      Change the lifetimes for different categories of patent. Drug patents, 10 years. Material patents 15 years. Electronic patents 5 years.

      While I hold a similar view of how patents have harmed more than helped a lot of innovation, I would disagree with shortening the patent lifetime of a drug to 10 years, as it typically takes 12 years to get a drug from conception to hospitals. This only leaves you 8 years of having your product in the market place to recoup your R&D expenses. Unless you can shorten the approval process to 2 years, it would be unreasonable to shorten the patent lifespan to 10.

      You typically only hear about wonder-drug X when it's filing for FDA approval, once it enter/passes the final round of clinical trials. There are many other trials that come before that, and another year or 2 of moving from a new molecule to a process of production. I think that 20 years is just about right considering the large time-investment in getting the product to market.

      Remember, getting FDA approval is the biggest hurdle. Once you have that, have a viable product, it is extremely easy for another company to reverse engineer it (the full specs and method of manufacture are not all that secret, a certain amount of transparency and 'open-source-ness' exist thanks to the protection of the patent). Until the point of patent approval, the R&D is highly guarded, but in order to manufacture it, secrecy cannot be maintained for long.

    5. Re:So easy by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 1

      Ah but my suggestion is that the clock partially starts when the sales start. Or a certain number of years. That way if a drug takes a while to go through the pipe then my 10 years hasn't started. But this way if some company completely hits a home run, say curing all cancers, and wants 1 million per dose then they will only get 10 years from that golden goose. Right now if you hit that home run I suspect that regulatory approval would be near instant and it would be 2032 before it went generic.

      Keep in mind that one of the reasons for the slow pipeline is that most new drugs suck. They are only arguably better than existing ones and only through intense marketing are the drug companies able to sell their $100 per dose drug over the just as good older $0.05 per dose drug.

      Also there would be another patent reform for drugs. Often a drug is given a patent for one use only to be granted a later patent for another use. So you might have a stomach drug that is also good at 50mg for helping pregnant women. As doctors note this second use the company comes along and patents it. So as the 100mg stomach pills go off patent the drug companies go after doctors who tell pregnant women to just buy the older stomach pills and cut them in two. The difference in price can be 100x.

    6. Re:So easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just don't get it why you americans can copy your legal system fees from some sane country? Loser pays is super great in preventing stupid legal extortion schemes. Note that the loser doesn't always pay (judge gets to decide), and legal fees have to be sane ( again, judge decides). Basically this just protects little people from getting sued into oblivion with obviously bogus cases. If the case does have some merit everyone usually pays their own legal fees. Also, damages are awarded according to real money lost, not some made up astronomical number. I guess you just really like your system where winner takes all.

    7. Re:So easy by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      Except it wouldn't. You don't have "The Cure for Cancer" _until_ it has passed the efficacy and safety trials. It's all well and good identifying a molecule in a lab that you think is sure-fire at killing cancer cells in rats/mice. It's another thing altogether to prove that it works in humans (including performing a placebo trial) and doesn't kill patients.

      To do this you have to manufacture it in that bona fide factory, so that there's no side effects of the manufacturing process i.e. you have to make real batches of it.

      Transferring the product from the lab to the plant takes a couple of years. You have to ensure you equipment can produce the Drug Substance. The DS has to be stable enough to transport (the cure for cancer will likely be a protein, so you'll have to freeze it) then your Drug Product plant has to perform robustness trials, engineering trials and finally validation. The data from this you can submit to the FDA for review, and if they say okay, you can then produce clinical trial batches (and placebo batches).

      Now you can start trialling on animals proper, and then assuming you don't kill them, you may go trial on humans with real and fake product. Then you have to wait for a while to get lots of test data back to be sure the product works and is safe.

      Pass that hurdle and then, only then, can you sell "The Cure for Cancer" to the world. There will be no fast tracking a product through approvals anymore. No matter how many lives it might potentially save if it got out 10 years earlier, you cannot push through all the products that a pharma company claim is the newest and best cure for cancer, otherwise we'd be flooded with therapeutics that best case do nothing, worst case they might actually harm/kill people.

  22. Shut down east texas by Ryanrule · · Score: 1

    Problem solved. Many problems solved.

    Might wanna go ahead to take out west texas too. Maybe flood the state, keep the big cities above water?

    1. Re:Shut down east texas by redneckmother · · Score: 1

      Problem solved. Many problems solved.

      Might wanna go ahead to take out west texas too. Maybe flood the state, keep the big cities above water?

      If you flood Texas, many of the big metro areas will inundate first. That might be a Real Good Thing (tm).

      Fortunately, I live at a relatively high altitude in a sparsely populated area.

      Bring it on!

  23. Corporate reproduction by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If corporations were people, it would take 9 months of effort and hundreds of pounds of input to create one and you wouldn't be finished until you had successfully pushed a watermelon through a garden hose.

    Instead we have this company spawning 1300 "children" in a year or two. Ridiculous.

    Sounds like Charlie Stross got it right in Accelerando--as a reaction to those 1300 corporations, useful corporations with actual products are going to have to react defensively, and in an exactly reciprocal fashion. Samsung is going to have to spawn 1300 child corporations and use them to hide their assets. "Oh, you were trying to sue for infringement of your phone interface? I'm sorry, Samsung Electronics 867 doesn't produce that phone. Try Samsung Electronics 335." *ring* "Samsung Electronics 335. Oh, no, you can't sue us for that phone interface. We sold it yesterday. To whom? Call back tomorrow." *ring* "Samsung Electronics 335. Yes, we sold that phone interface to Samsung Electronics 779." *ring* "Samsung Electronics 779. Oh no, you can't sue us for that phone interface. We sold it yesterday. To whome? Call back tomorrow..."

    1. Re:Corporate reproduction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just need to patent the autonomous creation of the child shell corps.

    2. Re:Corporate reproduction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Instead we have this company spawning 1300 "children" in a year or two. Ridiculous.

      Obviously mutant clones. Kill them with fire!

  24. Patent Troll-a-rama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Intellectual Ventures is a clearing house of patent troll-dom. They aren't the only ones mind you, but they are among the worst. Rat Bastards!

  25. 1300+ shell companies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get them from tax evasion.

  26. 1300 shell companies by billstewart · · Score: 1

    1300 shell companies all tangled up in a maze of twisty little patent lawsuits sounds like a plot device from Charlie Stross's Accelerando.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  27. I would like second to this. by boorack · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are already laws in place to deal with those crooks. The problem is selective application of laws - ordinary people will be jailed for years for having a little bit of marijuana in possesion, while crooky ruling elite is clearly above the law and they can do whatever they want. And if they break laws (stealing billions in the process), enforcement officials will cover it up (instead of doing what they're supposed to do) or some law retroactively legalizing criminal ruling crooks' behavior will be passed.

    Wake up folks, 2012 US of A is a two-tiered society, pretty much like medieval Europe. Technology and cheap energy is the only thing keeping standard of live relatively high but if it ends, you'll get back into dark ages sooner than you think.

  28. 1300 - 1 = 1299 by fritsd · · Score: 2

    And if they lose a dangerous, at least for them, precedent would be set.

    Oh noes! You mean... they have to continue trolling with only their remaining 1299 shell companies!

    --
    To be, or not to be: isn't that quite logical, Slashdot Beta?
  29. Misleading title. by kelemvor4 · · Score: 1

    Because I was expecting to find an article about a large number of shell subsidiaries. http://www.shell.com/

  30. This all is very sad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was seeking my first patent when I was eight years old. Also sought copyrights and branding since then... By fifteen I was sure I had at least one patentable idea that was new and not used and useful... Now after 40 I am sure I can conceive more than one patentable anything at a steady rate... But I CANNOT YET get a _patent_! Despite all my ideas having turned into VERY SUCCESSFUL products about five years AFTER I do the initial move for it. Machines, ideas and software alike. Same goes for copyrights and brands. Should be alarming, the idea of patent to most people mean: WILL NOT LET YOU USE IT. Economics says that it is not rational to hide new inventions... but not all people involved in it are RATIONAL. Patenting is used as a way to block and obstruct, not in bona fide economics ways. Something/someone is rotten somewhere very deep... people know better the evil genius/crazy inventor/mad scientist/world dominator Islamic categories than... no adequate counterexample! Maybe Superman? The first step to hide a technology is to patent it! THEN you have lawful (legal) control against anyone wanting to use it or even remotely interested in having the product in the market constantly! Maybe we are not getting the best of what we have achieved...

    1. Re:This all is very sad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny... two guys in there look like sons of people I grew up with... and two more like sons of people who were around me... and another one like me...