Logitech Releases Washable Keyboard

MrSeb writes "Logitech has released its first washable keyboard. We're not just talking about 'splash proof' either — you can take the K310, immerse it in up to 30cm of water (12in), and give it a good scrub. The only limitation is you can only use standard washing up liquid — oh, and Logitech says you should try to keep the USB connector out of the water, too. Once you've washed the keyboard, simply leave it to dry. The user guide says it takes eight hours to air dry, and that you shouldn't use a hair dryer. There are actually drainage holes on the backside of the K310, to help speed things along. This isn't the first washable keyboard — HP and Kensington have both had models on the market for a while — but the K310 does seem to be the first reasonably attractive, consumer-oriented washable keyboard. It goes on sale at the end of the month for $40."

Comments

Every keyboard is washable

[Osgeld]

just use a screw driver, still takes about 8 hours to dry and your not sitting there wondering if your not holding a blob of water under the spacebar that will fry the encoder

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[mirix]

Yeah, going by the 8 hours to dry stated in the summary - almost all electronics are washable by that standard (provided batteries are removed, etc).

And to think that motherboard manufacturers have been missing out on marketing them as "washable" all these years...

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[Osgeld]

computer collectors routinely take their mobo's out and run them through the dishwasher (I personally wouldn't do it without distilled water but whatever), so yea I guess the manfac's have been missing a marketing point

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[Anonymous Coward]

Mmmm. I find that if I use a screw driver, the orange juice leaves a sticky residue which interferes with the keyboards function.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[crafty.munchkin]

Might have to give that a try, have been wondering about the accumulated crap between the keys for a while... though I did see this and considered getting it...

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[Anonymous Coward]

It goes a lot faster (less than an hour) if you can pop all the keys off. Vacuum and damp rag on the main keyboard assembly, bucket in a deep sink with Dawn or similar soap and hot water for the keys. Let them soak for 5 minutes, agitate/stir around a few times, soak for 5 more minutes. (Much like cleaning Lego bricks.) Then it's just a matter of wiping the keys down and blowing them dry. Canned "air" seems to be the fastest way. The fun part is popping all the keys back in and in the right order. Just don't lose any in the process of cleaning them.

Unfortunately not all keyboards are designed with keys that can be removed and of course this only works if you're not such a slob that sticky stuff actually gets all the way inside the main keyboard assembly where the contacts are, but rather the average junk that often builds up on the keys and the flat surface under them. (But I'll give logitech credit for coming up with a keyboard where you can simply throw the whole thing under the sink and not worry about corroding the contacts. If they could make it bluetooth wireless and dishwasher safe then I'd be sold on it for sure.)

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[mug funky]

if you just use the vodka you get a much cleaner keyboard.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[mug funky]

i've seen the older (transparent shell kind) mac pro keyboards go through the dishwasher before.

dry them on top of a coffee machine where the cups go.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[chthon]

Indeed, Jerry Pournelle did this twenty years ago under his shower, with standard keyboards.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[TapeCutter]

Many years ago I dropped a full cup of coffee on my MB at work. After I finished cursing I drained it out into the dust bin and kept right on typing without a problem. The next day it had dried out properly but the sugar in the coffee had recrystalised and ceased the keys.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[whoever57]

just use a screw driver, still takes about 8 hours to dry and your not sitting there wondering if your not holding a blob of water under the spacebar that will fry the encoder

Why bother with that effort? I have cleaned keyboards in a dishwasher. Just leave them for a few days before attempting to use.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[cheater512]

Seized?

Easy solution - redissolve the sugar with water, then let dry again.
You probably should have rinsed the keyboard off before allowing to dry in the first place.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think you and I know the same kinds of computer collectors. In fact, I don't think you know many people at all that don't wear white coats if you believe that story.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[Anonymous Coward]

if you just use the vodka you get a much cleaner keyboard.

I dunno, when I use vodka my keyboard gets blurry.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[Anonymous Coward]

I can vouch for this. Every keyboard is indeed washable.

Oh, wait, you wanted your keyboard to work after being washed? Why does everyone have to be so picky these days?

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[jimshatt]

It's edible too! Will it blend? Probably makes a nice smoothie...

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[hawkinspeter]

A better solution is to aways drink coffee the way it's meant to be drunk: black, no sugar.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[jimshatt]

Only at first. Drink much more and you're keyboard will get 'puky'. After that you'll want to clean it THOROUGHLY!

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[cheater512]

Better still: Don't spill your coffee or anything else on your keyboard.

Problem instantly goes away. :)

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[DrXym]

I could potentially see people dousing an old board with distilled water, or gently removing grime with a swab and alcohol / water. Maybe some specialists even have industrial washers that spray the board in a controlled way with a closed water system. I'm having a hard time believing many people would want to put a board into a dishwasher even on the lowest setting, even without a tablet, unless they wanted to totally ruin it.

Dishwashers involve powerful jets of water which would have no trouble breaking off bits of solder or loose connections, or getting inside microswitches. Even if the board wasn't damaged it would have to be dried for days at low humidity to ensure all the moisture was gone. Also it can't be good for the water waste treatment system if all that shit from pcbs ends up there.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[allanw]

Those ubiquitous black IC's are plastic packaging which is not moisture sealed. Not sure if it'd actually affect the silicon to soak it in water for a bit though and use normally. But if you ever order any parts, they come in moisture sealed bags with big warning labels saying that you must reflow solder the IC's within 24-72 hours of opening the package or else too much moisture from the air will seep into the packaging, causing them to act like popcorn when you bake them to 350C for soldering. So if you leave them out too long you're supposed to slowly bake them to get rid of all the moisture before reflow soldering.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[Anonymous Coward]

If your going to go to the effort of taking a keyboard apart to clean it, might as well do it thoroughly.

- Pop all the keys off.
- Put the keys in a hand towel, all together, so that you can package them together.
- Run that hand towel under warm water, shake vigorously so that they scrape any caked on dirt loose.
- Use the towel to cover the drain if you don't have a strainer over your drains.
- Spray the keys down with the hand sprayer on your kitchen sink, or grab a couple in your hand and hold them in the water stream if you don't have a hand sprayer.
- Set the keys on a dry towel face up.
- Fill the sink with a little warm water and dish soap.
- Scrub the casing until clean, use a plastic scrubber if you have stubborn dirt.
- Shake the larger flat parts of the casing away from anything they could smack against.
- Set on a dry towel.
- Use a soft paint brush on the circuitry until it looks clean.
- By time your done it should all be dry enough to reassemble.
- You may have to blow into the bottom of the keys if they have slits in them.

Sounds complicated, but after doing it a few times it only takes about 10 minutes. Slowest part is reassembly since you need to get all the keys in the correct order.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[blackicye]

Depends on what solvent you use.

If you substitute water for isopropyl, naphta or other exotic solvent, you can probably just dunk the whole keyboard for a rinse and be good to go an hour later.

Spot test your keyboards for melting with your chosen poison first though.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[gmack]

My HP washable doesn't need to be dry to use it according to the manual and I've used it several times wet. It also sounds like it is much nicer to type on than that "rubber dome switches" Logitech since mine gives me a normal keyboard feel. It's also the first keyboard I have actually liked since I lost my old keyboard in a move 11 years ago. Having tried the screw driver method on keyboards in the past I have to say it's much nicer to be able to just hose the thing off and turn it upside down and shake it a couple of times before using.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[blackicye]

Those ubiquitous black IC's are plastic packaging which is not moisture sealed. Not sure if it'd actually affect the silicon to soak it in water for a bit though and use normally. But if you ever order any parts, they come in moisture sealed bags with big warning labels saying that you must reflow solder the IC's within 24-72 hours of opening the package or else too much moisture from the air will seep into the packaging, causing them to act like popcorn when you bake them to 350C for soldering. So if you leave them out too long you're supposed to slowly bake them to get rid of all the moisture before reflow soldering.

The main reason the moisture needs to be controlled is because of heat applied by soldering processes.
Moisture will turn into steam rapidly and cause the PCB/chip layers to de-laminate (a.k.a. Popcorning.)

If the electronics are going to be operating at normal room temperatures, some moisture is generally not a problem.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[Dogtanian]

Why bother with that effort? I have cleaned keyboards in a dishwasher. Just leave them for a few days before attempting to use.

I even had an O'Reilly *book* about ten years back that explained how to clean your keyboard in the dishwasher

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[TheStonepedo]

Metals exposed to distilled water tend to leach into the water.
Soft water may be a better fit for your application.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[Anonymous Coward]

some PCB are washed at the factory that's the point of water soluble flus, a water jet is not going to break off solder

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[Bert64]

Tried that, and the solvent dissolved the letter off the keycaps, leaving me with what is effectively a das keyboard...

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[Fallingwater]

I almost got a (fantastically paying, sigh) job at a company that specializes in washing computer electronics.

When a flood or a fire occurs in a datacenter, you see, some machines are inevitably damaged beyond hope, and those are junked; however, plenty more end up with caked dust, grime, fire retardant foam, mud and soot in every nook and cranny, including all the connectors, and this stops the machine from working despite the hardware being perfectly fine. My job would have been to take apart the computers in question to the smallest bits, disconnect everything and wash the affected board with a suitable cleaning solution, then dry them out, reassemble the whole thing, hit the power button and hope the magic smoke stays in. The cost of doing this is about 10% of the cost of replacing all the affected machines.

I was practically certain to get the job, then the economic crisis hit and they stopped hiring and had to resize themselves. *sigh*

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[trum4n]

i personally have dishwashered mobos, video cards, keyboards, random pci devices. Does no harm. Boards are conformal coated these days. let it dry, and youre good.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[IflyRC]

That's only going to happen after he's found his keyboard very, very attractive.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[Anonymous Coward]

I work with some sensative equipment that has to be water cooled, including some random parts without heat exchangers/heat sinks (in other words, it isn't just all protected by stainless steel). They do warn of damageto metal componets due to using too pure of water, and suggest the resistance be monitored and kept below 2 MOhm-cm. Distilled water we've used has always fallen short of this. Considering that is for constantly circulating water for months at a time, and that if using water for cleaning it won't stay as pure for very long, I don't think this would be a big issue for the occasoinal washing of electronics.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[kelemvor4]

I could potentially see people dousing an old board with distilled water, or gently removing grime with a swab and alcohol / water. Maybe some specialists even have industrial washers that spray the board in a controlled way with a closed water system. I'm having a hard time believing many people would want to put a board into a dishwasher even on the lowest setting, even without a tablet, unless they wanted to totally ruin it.

Dishwashers involve powerful jets of water which would have no trouble breaking off bits of solder or loose connections, or getting inside microswitches. Even if the board wasn't damaged it would have to be dried for days at low humidity to ensure all the moisture was gone. Also it can't be good for the water waste treatment system if all that shit from pcbs ends up there.

I've run motherboards through the dishwasher without problems before.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[wesk]

I prefer to just strap the stuff to the roof of my car and run it through the car wash.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[N0Man74]

Same here. I remember the first time that I did this for a mobo and video card... While a PC was running (with the case off), I accidentally spilled a smoothie right on top of it! After pulling the power, then using hand-cleaning and a dishwasher on both the video card and mobo, I used both for at least a couple more years.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. I've been washing keyboards in the dishwasher for years now. The only trick to it is making sure it is bone dry before plugging back in.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[Anonymous Coward]

You didn't get the joke

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[Anonymous Coward]

Precisely. I worked for an industrial electronic design and manufacturing company for about 5 years (after studying Electronics Engineering, and before going back to university and getting the degree in Computer Science). After wave soldering printed circuit boards, they would be washed (with warm soapy water and a light plastic scrub brush) by completely immersing them in water, and gently scrubbing. The solder flux was water soluble, and was easily washed off, and it was a poor conductor of electricity. You really wanted to wash it off! Chips are hermetically sealed according to Texas Instruments Mach32 procurement program (used by all chip makers including Intel, Arm, Motorola, et. al., and mandatory for anyone selling to the US millitary). The program demands chips withstand full immersion in water, spin tests, thermal shock (both hot and cold), fine leak tests, gross leak tests, altitude/pressure tests, centrifuge tests, etc. I've seen all kinds of people who don't know any better yelp "OMG! DOn't get it wet, it will be ruined forever!!!", and my thoughts are: shut the power off, wash thoroughly, and then let it dry (we *did* use hair dryers, on cool setting, and after production ramped up we used a Sears Kenmore dishwasher but without hot water or the hot dry cycle). Unplug the keyboard. Wash it. Soak it. Scrub very gently. Let it dry completely (the space between the chip and the printed circuit board often is the last place where the water stays, make sure its all gone before you reapply electricity). When its all dry, for sure, plug in and use.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[Anonymous Coward]

You are an idiot. Regular water in a dishwasher, printed circuit boards (dozens at a time), when I worked for a vendor making industrial control circuit boards. "Solder washing off??" WTF! Go ahead buck wheat, try to 'scrape off' solder! Its like 'scraping off' the welded on doors of your car ya freakin' boob! Circuit boards are fibreglass, "oh, it might wash off", chip leads are made of tin "Oh, it might rust" --NOT!, hermetically sealed chips are hermetically sealed --go use a dictionary to see what that means--. BEFORE you open your highly uninformed "I'm just guessing here, I don't really know" mouth, you should keep it shut and listen to other people who actually know. As the saying goes: "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." On the other hand, if your guessing is all you know, you shouldn't try to do any of this, you clearly can't think, clearly can't follow directions, and would fuck it up if you tried to wash electronics. You would leave the power on, use a sand blaster, and then yelp "it broken, it broken". You shouldn't also be allowed to use square pieces of paper (only round), and should be required to wear a helmet all day long (in bed too). Oh, and don't use alcohol.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed, Jerry Pournelle did this twenty years ago under his shower, with standard keyboards.

Gaad... it'll be a year before I can get that image out of my mind.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[stoatwblr]

Blutak is much cheaper and just as effective (so is silly putty) The actual crud under the keys is best removed using a vacuum cleaner with a crevice nozzle - popping keycaps makes the job go faster.

Most decent modern keyboards are designed so that a cup of "whatever" won't get into the membrane layer but simply runs down the top shell and out drainage holes - this falls apart when people leave the keyboard sitting in the resulting puddle. I spent a lot of years in my youth cleaning up desk calculators (remember them) which had coffee through them and the one rule for getting out sugar was "you can never have too much water"

There are far worse things than coffee spills though. Cat urine is corrosive if not weashed out immediately, and OJ or coke don't come in much better.

Re:Every keyboard is washable

[cthulhu11]

DEC commonly told people to clean their LK201 keyboards by running them through a dishwasher. Mind you, the end result was still a crappy-ass LK201. When I worked for a company that made physically large specialty computers, there was a Maytag on the production floor that they used to wash boards.

Does it come in a one handed version?

[hawks5999]

Just checking.

Re:Does it come in a one handed version?

[theshowmecanuck]

Yeah, now you can go back to sticky keys being a user access feature.

Re:Does it come in a one handed version?

[cerberusss]

Does it come in a one handed version?

The "college version"? This is the reason why I never buy second-hand laptops from students.

Re:Does it come in a one handed version?

[Anonymous Coward]

I take it you stopped masturbating when you left college? No?

The flaw in your logic. I see it.

Re:Does it come in a one handed version?

[kloffinger]

From TFA - "if you regularly spill Coke or other sticky and/or goopy fluids on your keyboard"....... I wonder what kind of goopy fluids the slashdot audience might "spill" on their keyboards.......

Re:Does it come in a one handed version?

[Tastecicles]

Coffee. Done that, keyboard survived - laptop didn't (Toshiba Equium A100 had a pint of fresh-off-the-boil Java and instantly started belching smoke like it was on fire).
Honey. Done that, too. Keyboard didn't survive.
Sugar syrup. Done that, too. Keyboard didn't survive, neither did the PS/2 port.
Tap water. Guess what? Blew the keyboard and the PS/2 port.

Here's the best (and probably most surprising one if you're not up on when water and electricity *do* mix):

Rain water. Straight from the sky, into the guts of an IBM Thinkpad 760C (yes, pre-Lenovo) when I was out on the field and needed a decent sized screen for fairly instant reviewing of digital photos. Water went straight through the drain holes in the keyboard, settled on the motherboard... and the thing kept right on motoring. As it does to this day, as a multi print server.

Re:Does it come in a one handed version?

[Like2Byte]

"Does it come in a one handed version?"

Wait. What? Gah!!!

Re:Does it come in a one handed version?

[theshowmecanuck]

Maybe it's because it's natures distilled water it might not have enough impurities in it to conduct. Pure water is a pretty good insulator. And at the relatively low voltage of most of the circuit board aside from power couplings (including the socket, but even that is fairly low voltage), it might not be enough to short out with rain water. That would be my guess.

At a research smelter (only 6 megawatts... enough to be commercial size for some metals) I helped commission and run, we used deionized water as coolant in the electrical buses. The electrical buses we used went to the cathode and anode of the arc furnace. The ones to the anode were far larger. The power/current load is so high that wire can't carry the load and you use buses. We went up to six megawatts and 20,000 amps of DC power (using DC instead of AC was part of the research). Normally commercial arc furnaces use AC power, but they still use buses to connect the furnace to the power supplies. It is pretty much the default at any smelter of this size and bigger (and even smaller).

Electrical buses for a multimegawatt arc furnace (multiple buses went to each of the cathode and anode) look like connected lengths (end to end) of 2 x 12s, but made out of solid copper. Solid that is, except for water pathways down the middle to keep them cool. We had a several hundred thousand dollar dionizing system just for the bus water. Kept in a cabinet 7 feet high by 5 by 5 feet. Dionized as much as possible to make sure there was as little conductivity as possible in the water, but also to ensure there was no scaling and unintentional theremal insulation in the channels (coolant can't efficiently cool the copper if there is scale there). But if scaling were the only issue, there are better alternatives than water. But electrical insulating properties was also highly important.

I also remember doing some other engineering experiements in a different place where we actually had to add impurities to some water we needed to use to measure... something. But that was so freakin' long ago I can't remember anything except being pissed because whatever we were doing didn't work because the water was insulating some current. It might have been affecting some kind of meter, but who knows.

Working on these projects, testing new engineering designs at size, was kind of like Mythbusters every day. Cool job. Just not enough of them around to be able to rely on. Eventually had to get a 'real' job where getting contracts or employment was/is more assured.

Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[GoodNewsJimDotCom]

I'm using a 20$ head set. I have a 10$ keyboard by them, and like a 15$ Optical Mouse. All my Logitech stuff works well and lasts for years. When I used Belkin, the stuff had weird errors and conflicts here and there. Logitech seems like it is the quality goto product when you're looking to be economical.

I was wondering if other people have had a good experience with this company?

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Osgeld]

I have a 3 button logitech serial mouse that was a few years old when I got it in 1990, still works fine
I also have random stuff from them from keyboards to mice to game controllers, always seems like a safe bet at a slightly more than reasonable price + for many many years ALL of the OEM people sent out their computers with logitech gear (granted in different colors and silkscreens)

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought a high-end, gaming keyboard from Logitech.
And there are several key combinations that don't register. Key combinations that have come up in games and been integral to progress. Its left-down-z, to be specific. So, no, I would not recommend their keyboards.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not sure if astroturd.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who modded this down? sounds like a legitimate complaint to me.

turfers turfin'?

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[MachDelta]

The only Logitech peripheral I wasn't happy with was a webcam a few years back. I've had two keyboards, a handful of mice (I still miss my mx500/518s), two speaker sets, and a pair of headphones. They were all acceptable or better. My keyboard is almost 9 years old and still kicking - albeit minus a good bit of the labels and finish. And yes, it survived the dishwasher just fine.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[werewolf1031]

Who modded this down? sounds like a legitimate complaint to me.

turfers turfin'?

Maybe he was modded down because he was using the arrow keys to play a game instead of WASD or ESDF.

Or, less jokingly, maybe he was modded down because he's full of manure. I have a Logitech Illuminated keyboard, which is decidedly not a "gaming" keyboard, yet it can handle at least 4 simultaneous keypresses in-game (possibly more but I haven't checked).

I'd say either he's out to bash Logitech, he got a lemon, or he's Just Doing It Wrong.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a G15 v2 and it was a horrible piece of shit. I can confirm the other anon cowards comments.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Zibodiz]

Largely personal preference, but I won't buy anything but Logitech. I get about a year out of a battery in my laptop mouse with a 4' range. My MS laptop mice never lasted more than 6 months, and have a range of about 18" LOS (which really sucks if your only USB ports are on the left side of your laptop). I've had 3 MS and 5 Logitech wireless mice, with pretty consistent results from each, except that Logitech desktop mice use 2 batteries and have twice the range. The only real complaint I have is that the keyboard encryption can only be set up from a Windows application, and has to be re-set every time the batteries run completely dead, which is a nuisance for full-time Linux users like myself. In my computer shop, Logitech's the only 'name brand' we carry.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[crafty.munchkin]

whereas my G15 v2 is awesome!

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Chaonici]

My Logitech Illuminated Keyboard is wonderful, but it has a few keys that have mysteriously stopped working. Google has thoroughly failed me in diagnosing the issue, and because of how the keyboard is built, I can't take it apart or take any keys off without risking damage.

It has made me rather unhappy with Logitech. My next keyboard might be a different brand.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny because MS mice (and Dell and a host of others) are basically re-branded Logitech mice.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[crafty.munchkin]

I've had pretty much a near-perfect run with Logitech equipment. Currently I have the following logitech gear at home: a Harmony 1100i universal remote, an Xbox360 Guitar, a g15 v2 keyboard (which as mentioned above, is dirty, but still going great), a g500 mouse, a pure-fi express iphone dock, and a webcam. There's also a couple of other logitech mice on the kids computers. All of which I've been very impressed with.

In a professional capacity, I'm currently typing on a logitech k120 keyboard and using an ergonmic mouse. Though I have used the mk510 and mk710 desktop sets in a previous job - and they are the only devices I've ever purchased from logitech which failed to impress me, and that was mainly due to the key shape on the keyboard.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Bieeanda]

I've been using Logitech stuff for over ten years. When the charger contacts on an unfortunately designed wireless mouse/keyboard base station went awry, they exchanged the old arrangement for a completely new model KB/M. When that sadly went a few years later, they did the same.

On the other hand, my third mouse in the last year is due to be delivered by courier tomorrow. It's an M705, and I'm convinced that there's a design flaw in the primary button switches. I know the warning signs though, and there's minimal hoop-jumping for a replacement these days, so I'm happy.

Definitely going to look into a different model of Logitech mouse when the warranty finally expires, though.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Anonymous Coward]

and my original G15 that I bought over 5 years ago is still kicking ass.
yeah the paint where I rest my wrist is gone, but it gives a cool contoured look!

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[betterprimate]

Logitech's hardware is known for its durability and innovation since the 90s. Logitech's premium products used to be great and may still yet be. They were the first at the optical trackball when trackballs had more popularity. That ball looked like a red and black tropical, poisonous toad. Belkin are notoriously bad for everything they produce and are to be avoided like the plague. They are cheap quality at a steep price and are were usually pushed at places like Best Buy, Computer City, etc. I've been using mac hardware for the past five years so my input may be aged. If you work with computers, consider going mac. I'm not be being shill; it's all about the workflow and the expectancy of your hardware and your own time. Many people geek out on hardware and it's cool if you do. I did when I was a kid, but when you depend upon your hardware for your livelihood, meh..... A race car driver doesn't change his/her own tires.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[slashrio]

Not really.
One time (about 3 years ago) I bought their USB headset which performed excellently (once it was recognised by my hardware) but for some reason it suddenly died. "Well", I thought, "Why not buy another one, as the quality (except for the breakdown) was near to perfect."
So, off I went to the shop, bought one (A-0008), and was quite happy with it. Until one earshell broke off. Then I got complaints from others who had to listen to me as I spoke through the mike, that there was a terrible 50 Hz humming sound which they had to endure. And then the one earpiece left started making crackling noises if some low-frequency sound were sent to it.
Then, there is my Logitech Mouse M305. Middle button a total failure. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
I don't think I'll buy there expensive crap anymore...

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think they make cheap shit and sell it for too much. Specifically, a lot of their headsets are pretty trashy and fragile. I liked my logitech mx510, but I like my razer mice a lot better and they last longer for the same price range.

Their keyboards all have squishy keys, and have bad ghosting. Their high end keyboards don't have linux drivers for the extra buttons that are, for some reason, on a separate usb device internally.

I think they've gone downhill a bit.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[GoodNewsJimDotCom]

Mac do get quality notoriety for not having many viruses. The problem is that if you naively think you're immune, that's when you run into unexpected problems. I'm still stuck in defensive mode on my PCs ever since the buffer overflow viruses of the early 2000s. I think if just one vulnerability hits my work machine, I'm out dozens of hours for reinstall, and lose lots of work and files that weren't worthy of backup. So I only browse limited websites in case one has a vulnerability.

I'm still not sure why Windows doesn't release a secure version. It'd be as simple as not allowing .exe out of their install directory. Every .exe gets its own registry that can't mess with other values. Then there would be a shared memory sector to transfer data between applications. This wouldn't help with old aps, but future aps could conform. To run old aps, you'd have to manually click "it is trusted". People would have the incentive to make their .exe trusted because it'd get more downloads from the Internet :) Once Microsoft Windows would be able to be friendly with the Internet, they'd have a better ability to compete. It shouldn't be that incredibly hard for them at MS to write this secure version, all it needs is put up sandbox values that you can't write to the same global registry as drivers write to, and that you can't escape the install directory. It shouldn't even take a huge rewrite, just some modification with existing code.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[jones_supa]

When I used Belkin, the stuff had weird errors and conflicts here and there.

In my books, Belkin is a garbage brand.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Krneki]

Same experience here, until I bought a 100E mouse, one button kept doubled clicking after 1 year. :( Still under warranty, but I had to revert back to my older Logitech mouse (still working).

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Anonymous Coward]

The old Logitech stuff was solid and earned the reputation that Logitech banks on, but the new stuff is the same cheap crap as everything else - definitely not worth the ridiculous markup. My keyboard is an old one by Siemens. I wash it occasionally.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's called Key-Rollover. Keys on keyboards due to the matrix layout of the switches are grouped, and you can only use one key per group simultaneously. Added to that, USB keyboards support a max KRO of 6 keys simultaneously. Many keyboards however only support a KRO of 2.

Try holding left and right shift while typing the brown lazy fox sentence or just typing the alphabet. You will see that unless you have a pretty expensive keyboard or use PS2, that some keys just won't register.

In any case, this problem isn't just with logitech keyboards, it's with pretty much all USB keyboards. A lot of manufacturers try to fix this by placing WASD in a separate group or changing the groups a bit so that it avoids a lot of common scenarios, but unless you shell out a lot for a mech keyboard with a thought-out key layout, you will have this problem.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[camperdave]

My Logitech Illuminated Keyboard is wonderful, but it has a few keys that have mysteriously stopped working. Google has thoroughly failed me in diagnosing the issue, and because of how the keyboard is built, I can't take it apart or take any keys off without risking damage.

It has made me rather unhappy with Logitech. My next keyboard might be a different brand.

Maybe you should wash it.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[olau]

My girlfriend had a Logitech keyboard. Forgot the model name, probably middle-of-the-road. Anyway, the keypress action was horrible. Sometimes when you didn't hit a key spot on, it would go down alright but just not register the press.

Hence, I'm staying away from Logitech keyboards.

At work, we bought Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000 when we started (15-20 USD). Horrible build quality, especially space bar, but really nice to type on. Ctrl is in a much better spot for Emacs'ing. They don't seem to be good for more than 3-6 years of everyday typing, though. I recently bought a Microsoft Comfort Curve 3000 (also 15-20 USD), and so far am liking it despite some annoying innovations (like insert being put away).

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[olau]

Damn, I forgot to tell my anecdote - my girlfriend's original Logitech finally died one day, but at that time she had inherited a computer from her brother, with the same goddamn keyboard.

I managed to kill that keyboard by accidentally spilling half a glass of milk over it last week, despite washing and taking it apart for drying. So eventually she had to accept getting a new one.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[YttriumOxide]

I've been using mac hardware for the past five years so my input may be aged.

My main two desktop systems at home are both iMacs; my main work laptop is a 17" MacBook Pro; and I've got an old PPC Mac Mini laying around that I'll probably repurpose for something one day. I say this in advance to indicate that I definitely do like Macs. The OS is easy and unobtrusive; I can use advanced shell scripting that I'm comfortable with from the Linux/Unix world; and so far the hardware has been extremely reliable and good.

All that said however, I absolutely can not stand to use Apple's mouses and keyboards. The built in trackpad on the MacBook Pro is fine and I'm happy using it on the road, but when I'm at my desk at work, I have a basic Dell laptop and keyboard that came with the docking station for one of my other laptops. At home, I use Logitech for both mouse and keyboard.

My main complaint with Apple's offerings is comfort. The keyboards don't have enough response to really feel I've typed something, which slows me down significantly; and the mouses don't fit comfortably to my hand for any kind of extended use (but at least they're not specifically right-handed devices; as a lefty, that really bugs me).

Each to their own of course - if you're comfortable with something, use it.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[lexsird]

I'm a hard core computer gamer, and a forum warrior. I am hell on keyboards. With that said, I have been through a G15, it served well for years, before one of the keys sticking. I replaced it with a G19 that is serving well as we speak. I had one of their G5 mice for years. I have a story for that one.

The G5 gaming mouse finally started going bad on me, and at the worst possible time it seemed in my games. Hence sending me to high levels of pissed off rage, I had a replacement in hand when it at last pissed me off for the last time. Instead of hanging on to it like a pack rat, I let my rage have a run and went to destroy it and toss it in the garbage. I figured it would be cathartic.

So there I am, swinging this mouse by the cord like it's a flail. I bring it down on the hard kitchen tile for the death blow, expecting it to shatter into pieces. It didn't. I was like wtf? So began the rage of repeated slams on the floor. I stop and examine my handy work, and just one of the mouse buttons is skewed off to the side and broke. I could have beat someone to death with it. Jesus! So I pitched it quickly in the trash before it decided to have it's turn with me. lol.

I was impressed and wanted another one, but they had stopped making them that well and I got a cheap assed, reissue of it that didn't impress me at all. If you come across one of those older G5, the high end ones, with the weights you can put in it, those are Dinobot tough.

My current mouse is a Razor Naga. The mouse is handy for MMO's and such, but the fucking SOFTWARE controlling it is god damn annoying as fucking humanly possible. You have to LOG IN to some server on the Internet to get your profiles. Yes, you read right. HAVE TO FUCKING LOG IN FOR YOUR PROFILE. The mouse is awesome or I would be writing them with instructions on how they could jam their mice and software far up their asses. If I find a mouse that I like close to as much as the Naga, I will be sending those instructions. That is unless they have a palace revolt and give me some software that doesn't make me feel like my damn mouse company is watching me like some damn creepy fucks. When this Naga goes, they can suck a bag of dicks, I'm done with them.

A washable keyboard is something to look into. Here's the burning question, will the damn thing last long enough that it needs washing? I normally advise people to just get a cheap keyboard and chuck it when it gets dirty. I've taken a few of them apart, it's not worth it, unless you are dirt poor, AND cheap.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[David Gerard]

You need a Model M.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Anonymous Coward]

They were the first at the optical trackball when trackballs had more popularity. That ball looked like a red and black tropical, poisonous toad.

I've got three thumbwheel models from the late 90s. Wouldn't trade them for any mouse - I see them occasionally for sale used at the same price I paid new. The new design may be just as good, but 15 years out of one device with no RSI...I won't be happy when they finally fail.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Bert64]

THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG

its quite strange to type while trying to hold both shift keys...

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Anonymous Coward]

wtf modded this informative? Logitech employees?

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[KiloByte]

Unless you're using a Google keyboard with that useless search button, there's a key named Caps Lock for that... :p

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Anonymous Coward]

This. (I am typing this on an genuine IBM Model M and I have two more "salvaged" Model Ms waiting just in case the one I am using wears out before the next millenium.)

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Anonymous Coward]

pro-tip: the $ actually goes in front of the number!

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[drinkypoo]

Yes, I am somewhat rabid about Logitech input devices. I have only had some marbles and the like go bad on me, they have kind of a funny roller arrangement and I don't expect it to last forever. They are astoundingly good about warranty replacements, including of gifts for which you have no receipt. I have never had a compatibility problem with a Logitech mouse. Bluetooth pairing actually works. Etc etc.

However, I tend to use cheap keyboards. I just go to yard sales and buy the keyboards with hubs in them whenever I see them. I'm not spoiled by a fancy keyboard so I can still type when I use other computers. Right now I have a stack of dell media keyboards with hubs and volume knobs three deep if you count the one I'm currently using. I get them for $5 or less (not a bad price with a hub in) and I use them until turning them upside down and shaking them doesn't fix them any more and then I bin them and get another. I used to replace keyswitches and such but this is much easier.

If I'm getting a keyboard like this I want it to have a backlight.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[drinkypoo]

I had a model M, but I got tired of looking for the tiny herd of buffalo that were apparently rampaging loudly around my desk.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[schitso]

My G930 headsets (~$150) just broke after 6 months of use. Fsck Logitech.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Anonymous Coward]

To run old aps, you'd have to manually click "it is trusted". People would have the incentive to make their .exe trusted because it'd get more downloads from the Internet :) Once Microsoft Windows would be able to be friendly with the Internet, they'd have a better ability to compete. It shouldn't be that incredibly hard for them at MS to write this secure version, all it needs is put up sandbox values that you can't write to the same global registry as drivers write to, and that you can't escape the install directory. It shouldn't even take a huge rewrite, just some modification with existing code.

They called it Windows Vista.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[snowraver1]

I got:

HE QUIK BROWN FO JUPED OER HE LA DOG

This was on a Lenovo USB Keyboard

Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted! Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a fairly old 5.1 system, a webcam, and a G15 keyboard from Logitech. They all work great. The speakers have lasted at least twice as long as my previous set (klipsch 5.1s died within 6 months after warranty ran out). On the other hand, I've owned or been a party to 4 Logitech G7 wireless mice that all randomly stopped transmitting for a few seconds at a time, constantly.

I've been buying Logitech peripherals for 13 years, and now that I think about it, every problem I've had with one has been a mouse. From the aforementioned G7s to a 4 button ball mouse, before scroll wheels were even popular, which literally melted in the middle of a round of Quake 2.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[DrVxD]

They were the first at the optical trackball when trackballs had more popularity. That ball looked like a red and black tropical, poisonous toad.

Yep. In fact, I'm using one right now - it's been in almost daily use for well over a decade, and it's still going strong. Excellent bit of kit.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[mcgrew]

I have a wireless mouse/keyboard combo from them, and it's worked fine for ten years now. The keyboard is having some problems, but that's because I left the batteries in so long they crystalized and leaked; I'm going to have to disassemble it, but it's my own fault. I should have removed the batteries.

IIRC I paid $75 for it. Money well spent.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[hurfy]

HE QUIC BROWN OX UMPE OVER HE Z OG

lol, very interesting. Bottom of the barrel keyboard...not even a chinese name on it.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[Transaction7]

Glad you have. I have a Logitech keyboard and optical mouse and the letters etc. have quickly worn off, which is a minor pain in the posterior, and Caps Lock comes and sticks on if I type a lot of the keys near that. I'm looking for a good keyboard, mostly for use in Word, Outlook, Firefox and sometimes IE Internet browsing, Contacts, etc., etc. and getting discouraged. I've had and gone through Dell, Microsoft, Logitech, and some no-name keyboards or ones the brand name of which I can't recall, and even the more expensive ones from Microsoft I have used either had problems when I got them or stopped working properly before long. First one letter or function key quits, then more, or striking one key gets me something I did not type, the touch on some keys gets to be too light or much too hard to push, or the markings rub off, etc. I need a good tactile feel to alert me if I type something wrong, etc., and reliability when my typing gets up around 80 wpm. Ideally, a keyboard should be designed to keep coffee, peanut shells, staples or paper clips, dog fur, dirt, etc. out and to let me clean it simply and easily, preferably without having to wait eight hours before using it.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[betterprimate]

Macs are vulnerable just as much Linux is vulnerable to viruses. There is no difference in the approach of securing each system and each one can be nailed down tightly. I was actually referring to Mac hardware as this is hardware discussion. Even though I prefer OSX, I still run Win7 and Ubuntu on Mac. It's a hardware thing and a preference to a BSD-based OS. When you purchase a Mac, it's under warranty. When you extend it with applecare, you're set. In a production environment, I rely on my macs. If there is ever a hardware failure (though rarely), I get the best service and sometimes it's in their best interest to give me a brand new machine.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[betterprimate]

Different strokes for different folks. I feel awkward typing on anything other than a mac keyboard. I also use a magic mouse and can't seem to transition from it; it feels like a *real* response due to its design and weight. I also have had the same experience with mac hardware. It's definitely reliable. I have two iMacs, an aged MBP transformed into a free-for-all desktop, and an Air for my primary machine. Plus, if shit breaks, you got reliable service even when you have a deadline in two days.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[rpstrong]

Also an unabashed M fanboi. I've owned several for about as long as I've been using computers, with one that I would take from job to job. BTW, you can get spare parts ranging from buttons to a full keyset ($20, no key caps) at Unicomp. Unicomp is a company in Kentucky which now owns the original IBM patent and continue to offer the Model M in a wide variety of key arrangements, including custom, for around $80. I haven't dealt with them yet, but I expect to soon - I've got one board with a bum Ctrl key that I hope to save.

Re:Anyone else have good experience with Logitech?

[rpstrong]

I used to drive a coworker nuts because I kept the optional keyboard 'beep' sound switched on on my terminal (pre-PC days). I really didn't do it to annoy, it was because I could type more accurately. The keyboard action sucked, and the only way to know the key was pressed enough was to either see it on the screen or to hear the chirp. Much of my work was data entry; my eyes were on the source documents, not the screen - hence, the beep. Annoying her was simply a bonus.

Been washing them for years...

[BWJones]

Dude... I've been washing my keyboards for years. Spill coffee in them? Run EM under the tap and dry them out. Spill beer in it, stick it in the dish washer. Air dry.

Re:Been washing them for years...

[arkane1234]

The fact that you do it and it still works proper is mere coincidence.
Especially with tap water, and not disassembling.
This is designed for being washed without disassembling, so no risk.

Re:Been washing them for years...

[phantomfive]

Maybe, but I've heard lots of stories of people washing their keyboards, and not very many stories of broken keyboards as a result. My guess is it's normal for keyboards to be able to withstand a washing.

Re:Been washing them for years...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been washing keyboards for years, and have never had one break. Leo Laporte even recommends putting keyboards in the dishwasher and just giving them a few extra days to dry (http://www.grc.com/sn/sn-196.htm)

Re:Been washing them for years...

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is, whenever you (inevitably) spill beer on your keyboard, you're probably too drunk to fix it right.

Re:Been washing them for years...

[Anne Thwacks]

Electronics is normally washed as a final step in assembly - partly to remove the flux from soldering. The only things that would not like it are speakers with cardboard cones and batteries of all kinds. If you are certain the device has neither, there will be no problem washing it. However, if you want to remove carpet fluff and other large objects, dismantling is generally a good idea.

I have washed a lot of Cisco kit, Sun servers, etc, and I recommend, "In the Bath, with Fairy Liquid and a large back brush" but always clean the bath before using it for bathing!

Re:Been washing them for years...

[Zoxed]

I have done it several times with 2 different keyboards on our "family" PC (i.e. the one that the grubby little kids used to use !). Warm shower, stiff brush and air dried, usually for several days whilst they were away visiting granny. Always worked fine afterwards.

Re:Been washing them for years...

[Anonymous Coward]

But now you have been given PERMISSION to wash your keyboard. Don't you feel that this customer empowerment is invigorating?

Re:Been washing them for years...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been putting my Model M in the dishwasher for years. I thought that was the whole reason for having detachable cables.

Re:Been washing them for years...

[Alomex]

The fact that you do it and it still works proper is mere coincidence.
Especially with tap water, and not disassembling.

Not at all. At University we used to wash keyboards all the time, from many different manufacturers. You just have to let them dry for at least twenty four hours, but preferably over the weekend.

Re:Been washing them for years...

[pregister]

I've found putting them in an oven on the lowest heat setting with the oven door left open dries them out in an hour or so. Never had one not recover. The worst was an entire glass of tang / vodka with so much tang powder in that the spoon would almost stand up in it (not my drink).

Re:Been washing them for years...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've done the same for decades. Whenever I find a good, but dirty keyboard (e.g. Cherry G80) abandoned somewhere, I just toss it in the dishwasher. I'd say they have a better than 50% chance of working after letting them dry in the sun for 1 week. That's good enough for free keyboards, but may lead to dissapointment with your beloved Model M or expensive Gamer keyboard.

Meh

[Gazzonyx]

Meh. The keyboard that I'm using (Kensington, FWIW) is "water proof"; it has two holes in the bottom where liquids that are spilled into the keys can drain out. It also (in theory) dries quickly after a cleaning because of these holes. Best $15 keyboard I bought in college.

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

You bought more than one $15 keyboard in college?

Re:Meh

[Gazzonyx]

Yeah, I got a Spanish keyboard down at Walmart. I think it was $12. I touch type, so it was a deal. It also screws with anyone that tries to use the desktop that it's on.

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I have the Kensington washable keyboard too. I don't know why the summary makes such a big deal about this Logitech board. The Kensington is a normal black usb keyboard that cost me $35 and has been out for at least a year.

This is perfect...

[mark-t]

... for when I'm wanting to use my computer while bathing. Accidentally dropping the keyboard won't cause catastrophe. But is it bluetooth?

Re:This is perfect...

[Grayhand]

... for when I'm wanting to use my computer while bathing. Accidentally dropping the keyboard won't cause catastrophe. But is it bluetooth?

Nope. it says to not get the USB wet.

Re:This is perfect...

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it is USB. Read the summary.
Washing it while its plugged in will destroy it and probably your USB controller if not your entire motherboard.

Re:This is perfect...

[KaoticEvil]

No, it is USB. Read the summary.

You must be new here...

Re:This is perfect...

[Anonymous Coward]

You must believe that the fact that idiots never read TFA or more than skim TFS means we should excuse them being idiots. It doesn't. It means we should point and laugh. So take your little apologetic ass a level higher in the conversation and make fun of the idiot instead of the people doing the right thing, mmkay.

Dishwasher?

[jamesh]

Call me when I can put my keyboard in the dishwasher. When I spilled honey on my last laptop keyboard i took the whole keyboard out, ran it under warm water for a few minutes, sat it in the drainer for 30 minutes to kind of dry, then put it back together. It outlasted the rest of the laptop. Most keyboards can take this sort of abuse.

Re:Dishwasher?

[Anonymous Coward]

"honey"? Is that what kids call it these days?

Re:Dishwasher?

[asmkm22]

You can run a keyboard (or practically anything in a PC other than disk drives or batteries) through a dishwasher. Just don't put it on the super hot 'pots and pans' cycle. Also expect to reapply thermal paste to the cpu and graphics card.

Re:Dishwasher?

[CheshireDragon]

yes, it was jizz. I don't know how the hell any one could get 'honey' on a keyboard. Did you knock the jar over and wait 10min for it to drip out on the keyboard? Or you must know of a good way to sling honey around that I haven't heard of yet.

Re:Dishwasher?

[Anonymous Coward]

Skymall's been advertising dishwasher-safe keyboards and mice for a while.

Re:Dishwasher?

[Anonymous Coward]

What's your number?

Re:Dishwasher?

[Anonymous Coward]

1-888-YO-MAMMA

That's right, bitch, I ate your mother out. Deal with it.

As others have pointed out, 'washable' electronics is nothing new.

Otherwise, I find Logitech equipment fine; their keyboards are no IBM M-series quality, and I wish there was a trackpoint option, but there's good tactile feedback, nice travel, and their micro-receiver is nice. Only thing I wonder is: why don't they just use bluetooth. Licensing costs, probably (or the fact that bluetooth hasn't once been made to work without severe loss of hair :) )

Re:Dishwasher?

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out this blog post: http://blogs.helsinki.fi/pervila/2011/06/07/keyboards-and-dishwashers/
Looks like you can wash almost any keyboard out there.

Re:Dishwasher?

[Celarent Darii]

Butter and honey on warm toast is delicious, but it does tend to get everywhere especially as you try to read headlines and eat breakfast at the same time.

Re:Dishwasher?

[Anonymous Coward]

Call me when I can put my keyboard in the dishwasher. When I spilled honey on my last laptop keyboard i took the whole keyboard out, ran it under warm water for a few minutes, sat it in the drainer for 30 minutes to kind of dry, then put it back together. It outlasted the rest of the laptop. Most keyboards can take this sort of abuse.

I've run dozens (60-100) of keyboards through the dishwasher. I'm the tech coordinator at a little high school and the keyboards get pretty disgusting after a year or so. Over the summer I take them home and run them through the dishwasher. You can get about ten in a load. I use dishwasher detergent, but don't use any of the drying settings.

I never know how long to leave them out before using them again, so they generally sit around for a few weeks before I take them back to school.

Re:Dishwasher?

[Anonymous Coward]

Most cheap keyboards will survive the dishwasher.

If you have a 'gaming keyboard' or anything with macro keys, etc, I wouldn't risk it, but I used to have 2 old keyboards stacked on top of my tower so that I could swap them out for my active one and throw it in the dishwasher.

every logitech keyboard i've had

[ClioCJS]

has eventually failed after I've spilled water on it. Wireless keyboards. I gave them good on the 5 year warranty replacement, though. Every set was replaced 2 or 3 times. Got my money's worth. But to me, that does not meet any definition of "waterproof". That's something that would impress me.

Re:every logitech keyboard i've had

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi! Are you talking about the keyboard in question? It seems to be new...

Running out of ideas?

[werewolf1031]

Much as I've enjoyed Logitech's products over the years, and still do, I think they're running out of ideas.

https://www.getezeyes.com/

Just like their G600 is a blatant rip-off of the Razer Naga, they seem to have reached a bit of a wall when it comes to having new concepts of their own. They should just go back to doing what they did best: refining what they had iteratively, making improvements with each device generation, rather than "hey, those guys over there are doing something we're not, we gotta get in on that!".

My 2 copper. Still enjoying my Logitech Illuminated and G700, but having doubts about where the company is headed at this point.

Re:Running out of ideas?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought their solar-powered wireless keyboard was pretty neat.

Re:Running out of ideas?

[drinkypoo]

Well, when did Logitech ever invent anything? I guess they came up with a pretty fancy mouse sensor. But generally their bread and butter has been doing what everyone else is doing, but better. Starting in the DOS era I would breathe a sigh of relief when I saw a Logitech mouse card because I knew it would not require some retarded driver and that it would actually work in DOS and in Win 3.1. It wasn't until PS/2 mice proliferated that you could reasonably expect to plug a mouse in and have it work on the first go.

Re:Running out of ideas?

[davewoods]

Well, when did Logitech ever invent anything?

Just off the top of my head without looking anything up I thought of two:

1. Logitech MX Revolution: Introduced the first mouse that has a scroll wheel that switches between free-spinning, and standard, to allow incredibly quick and smooth scrolling with just a single flick of your finger.
2. Logitech Anywhere Mouse MX: Darkfield technology allows the mouse to detect movement on practically any surface. Including incredibly clean glass.

If I took the time to look up information, I am sure I would find many more interesting inventions listed. Like maybe their DiNovo, it was a media-centric keyboard that was wireless and had a charging station.

Anyway, I am kindof a Logitech flunkie, so I guess maybe my views are a little biased, but whatever.

no need for this...

[CheshireDragon]

I already do that with my keyboards and some of my oldest ones are over 10years old. I let them dry for a good 24-48hrs though. I have other comps to work with in the mean time.

Model M

[TheGoodNamesWereGone]

Model Ms have been going in the dishwasher for two decades. Just sayin'..

Re:Model M

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, that's because model M's annoy people so much that they want to torture them as much as possible. The fact that most of them don't die from this doesn't mean it's not emotionally satisfying for people having to listen to that clicking racket, day in, day out. Oh for FUCK'S SAKE JUST GET A REAL KEYBOARD ALREADY!

Antique != good.
Sturdy != quality.

Re:Model M

[olau]

Aw, come on, mod parent up, it's funny!

(Yes, I enjoyed model M too. My surroundings probably didn't.)

Re:Model M

[John Bresnahan]

Why funny? I was given a Model M keyboard that was really filthy from 20+ years of use in a local college. It was so dirty that I wasn't willing to use it as is. Since I had nothing to lose, I put it in the upper rack in my dishwasher and ran it through a short cycle (with soap, no less).

It took a couple of days to completely dry out, but after that is was like new and worked perfectly.

Re:Model M

[Anonymous Coward]

Two decades? You'd think they'd be clean after one.

Re:Model M

[jimbodude]

I did this too. These industrial strength keyboards are totally worth washing and continuing their use.

Re:Model M

[John Bresnahan]

D'oh! I wasn't seeing the post to which you were actually responding.

Yes, the Model-M is very noisy. But it's the best keyboard I've ever used. And, as several have noted, it can take a licking and keep on ticking (a la the old Timex watch commercials). Maybe a better version is: "It takes a shellacking and keeps on clacking!"

Re:Model M

[Misagon]

I wouldn't dare do that to a precious Model M, or to any of the other mechanical keyboards in my collection.
I have had rubber-dome membrane keyboards break because of just a tiny droplet of water in the wrong place on the membrane.
Right now I am typing on a Japanese-made quality keyboard worth $250, that I think will outlive that Logitech by several decades as long as I do not put it in the dishwasher.

When I need to clean a (newly acquired second-hand) keyboard, I usually do this:
* Remove the keys, using a key-cap puller tool. Put them into a washing bag (like what women use to clean push-up bras). Put the bag into a bowl with a few Denture Cleaning Tabs and pour warm water over it just to cover the bag. The tabs will start to fizz, and this will clean the keys. Let simmer for a few minutes, then rinse and hang to dry. Using a washing bag helps this process a great deal.

* Unscrew and clean between switches with a vacuum cleaner.

* Wash the plastic case with a dishwashing liquid under the shower. I may need to rub with a sponge if it is especially dirty.

* Clean electronics with q-tips dipped in isopropyl alcohol.

I suppose that plastic parts could be washed in the dishwasher, but then you must be sure that it does not get too hot. ABS plastic melts at around 110-150ÂC and could start warping at 75Â C. PBT keys, such as is used for Model M keys do withstand higher temperatures.

I admit,

[Penurious Penguin]

I've never had a touch-screen anything, so be advised. With all the nonsense with touch-screens corrupting sacred UIs, why not a touchscreen keyboard? Now I may be going in odd directions, but it seems the touchy-feely (*8, Uni*, Gno*) sorts could have their cake and maybe have a slice of it too. Imagine an AI keyboard that catered to the user's ergonomics rather than the user to the the device.. What I imply, is a keyboard that could learn the user's ergonomics, kind of like voice-recognition -- and adapt accordingly. Something like this might be a useful range between voice-command and static hardware. And it could be almost like sandboxing the pestilent frenzy of bubbly touchy simpletardation mongers, yet they could play and so could "we". A harmonious mixture of the classically practical -- and restless innovation?

Re:I admit,

[Havenwar]

I'm fairly sure touch screen keyboards have been tried or announced and failed, or is about to come, or some such. I've heard it before anyway. As for the rest of that stuff, that's impossible.

Oh, the long version? Right. Voice recognition adapts to the way you speak by two factors, one, you speak, two, you correct it when it gets it wrong. This doesn't work for keyboards, because we expect the keys to be in certain places. They can't just one day go "oh you use these keys a lot, let us move them closer for you!" because the user would have to re-learn the keyboard over and over again. Basically with voice recognition the user doesn't change the way they speak (much), but with keyboards the user has to change the way they type with every change to the input device that's done.

So, sorry, it's one of those things that sound really neat, but has no conceivable use-case in the real world. If you think people would accept this sort of thing, try buying a bunch of different keyboards with different layouts and then just grab a friend, and switch his keyboard out. Every few hours or days. Dvorak, Qwerty, Qwertz, different languages, shapes, models.

See how long it takes before he vows to piss on your grave rather than ever buy a keyboard you've made to mimic this behaviour.

Re:I admit,

[Misagon]

There used to be a company called FingerWorks that made a touch keyboard called TouchStream that adapted to the user. You could shift your hand a little bit during typing and the keyboard would adapt to that shift and still interpret your relative finger taps even though they would occur outside the printed key rectangles.
The touch surface was also a multitouch touchpad, which interpreted more types of gestures than any touchpad before or since.

In 2005, FingerWorks had financial problems and was acquired by Apple, supposedly for its patent portfolio.

limited appeal

[fragMasterFlash]

The only limitation is you can only use standard washing up liquid

So Cheetos dust stains are basically permanent?

Dishwasher

[betterprimate]

Seriously. If they're not attached to a laptop, just run them through without the heat/dry cycle. I've been doing it for 13 years. Just give them a liberal 48 hours to dry out. And for fuck sake, don't add soap.

slashdot

[matt007]

Slashdot : ads for nerds.

Re:slashdot

[jones_supa]

If this was about a random Logitech keyboard, it could have been just a blatant advertisement. However a keyboard that has been ground-up designed for dishwashering is kind of a new concept so it is interesting to discuss about it.

Washable keyboards

[Animats]

This is hardly the first washable keyboard. The IBM PS/2 keyboard was made to be machine-washable. There are many washable flex keyboards. They're not even expensive.

Most keyboards that don't contain speakers can be washed and rinsed, provided you use de-ionized or distilled water that won't leave solids behind when it evaporates. After all, PC boards usually go through a dishwasher-like cleaning step after soldering.

Re:Washable keyboards

[wonkey_monkey]

The summary acknowledges this - it's only Logitech's first washable keyboard, so why the hell it was deemed newsworthy by the editors is beyond me.

Re:Washable keyboards

[Krneki]

Well, thanks to user comments I know it's ok to wash the keyboard in the dishwasher.

Re:Washable keyboards

[Anonymous Coward]

The IBM Model M was not made to be machine-washable, it is an urban legend. The springs will erode, you cannot do it a single time. Above some guy claims he washed his Model M in the dishwasher for two decades, he made it up. For a few years Model Ms were made with draining holes. Which means they could cope with spilled liquids, so the liquid wouldn't reach the springs but run out of the bottom instead. These draining holes are not in the early and not in the late versions.

This thread is full of loud idiots btw. It's like a thread about OS, and everybody advises each other Windows 95 in the end. Right. What I see is a bunch of amateurs, apparently, because professionals wouldn't use the cheapest of the cheapest consumer grate input devices. One got to wonder. Would they buy the cheapest shoes if they would be walking 8 hours a day? Would they buy the cheapest throw away Chinese cars if they would drive for a living? So I guess they aren't in IT for a living, otherwise they would be using $20 Logitech crap made for consumers and amateurs.

Can't they fix their mice first?!

[tlim]

After a while, the Logitech mice go bad and out comes the dreaded double click problem. It's as if they _want_ those mice to be broken on purpose after a certain amount of time. Fix the damn mice please!

Re:Can't they fix their mice first?!

[Anonymous Coward]

I've fixed the same logitech m705 mouse repeatedly. here's the procedure. unscrew the bottom, and remove the top side. take care because there are buttons on the top that will have to be disconnected. invert the mouse with the top off so that the laser apparature faces UP and using a small flat tip screw driver, pry off the rectangular plastic cap over the offending button. be careful because it's easy to break the tabs off. also the small white piece that sticks out of that slot in the top can pop out and go flying. without it the button and the mouse are useless. TAKE CAREFUL NOTE OF THE ORIENTATION OF THE RECTANGULAR CAP!!! If you don't put it on right the button won't work. The way it goes on is counterintuitive, so mark or better still photograph it, and see you reassemble it the right way.

once it's off, you will see the mechanics of the switch itself. there's a part that if you push on it with a screwdriver tip will actuate the switch. When you work the switch with a screwdriver tip or other sharp object, you'll see part of the switch separate and come back together when the button released. the double clicking problem is caused by corrosion or other buildup in that location. clean it out with alcohol on a Q tip, piece of papertowel or other similar thing. let dry and reassemble.

I've done this twice and the last time it took less than 20 minutes. with these instructions it should take little time or effort. removal of the screws requires damaging the label and probably voids the warranty. I've saved myself about a hundred dollars worth of new mice thus far.

Re:Can't they fix their mice first?!

[dark_requiem]

Easy solution, slow down on the Diablo! Every high-end mouse I've destroyed this way, I can attribute to either D1 or D2.

You mean I wasn't supposed to use the Dishwasher?

[Anonymous Coward]

I threw my USB keyboard in the dishwasher waited a day and plugged it in, tada still works.

why not a touchscreen keyboard?

[sconeu]

Two words. Tactile feedback. Even the mushiest keyboard lets you feel that you've hit the key. With a touchscreen keyboard you need to use visual feedback and take away your eyes from the screen or from your source material.

Re:why not a touchscreen keyboard?

[Havenwar]

Yeah, my main problem with my laptop is actually the opposite... the keyboard is so flexible with mushy keys that even if _I_ feel I hit the key, the computer doesn't always notice. I presume because the entire keyboard flexes with my push putting the actual key-switch further away from the key top. Or some such. Learning to type really really softly is more of a challenge than it should be, but hey, I've been typing on heavy mechanical switches for 20+ years.

Re:why not a touchscreen keyboard?

[Penurious Penguin]

I lucked out with all these replies; I thought they'd be a lot more vicious. However -- and I fully understand your point -- between responsive LEDs, sound, and maybe even a very subtle vibration-response, I have confidence that it could work, but not so much that it will. One of the comments (Misagon) in this thread mentioned a company (FingerWorks) and their method (TouchStream) which although acquired by aPpLE, was working on something similar.

Re:why not a touchscreen keyboard?

[FranTaylor]

not true, my tablet makes nice satisfying click sounds when i push the virtual buttons. Since the speaker is in the tablet, you can feel the sound.

Preventing the sharing of bacterias

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't RTFA (hey, is this Slashdot!) but I guess the expected customers will be hospitals and the like, where sharing bacterias is a big no-no.

Re:Preventing the sharing of bacterias

[Dr_Barnowl]

There are specific keyboards for hospital settings. Things like keyboards covered entirely in a flat membrane of silicone rubber, with two conductive sensors to detect wiping, and firmware that refuses to let you type unless you wipe it every ten minutes or so.

The king of peripherals

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't buy fancy mice. I'm serious. I have two Logitech mice I got for free during the initial rebate craze. Today they cost about three bucks. These suckers have lasted through intentional punishment.

My good friend is on his third Logitech G6. I am on my second Razor Naga.

Hundreds of dollars wasted on fancy mice instead of sticking to the simple ones every elementary school trusts to children.

VT Terminals

[Anonymous Coward]

Back in the '90s, I was working at a VAX/Unix shop, using VT terminals. It was the end of the era for green-screen terminals, but there was one thing about them that you couldn't do with the PCs we had at the same time -- you could dish-wash the keyboards.

All I'm saying is this is an old concept. Call it a feature, sure, but don't trumpet it as an innovation.

I've given up on Logitech

[CardinalCathyn]

I *love* their products, but until they re-release the TrackMan Marble FX, I'm buying nothing from them.

Clearly...

[niftymitch]

Clearly they intend clean up in this market.
Sadly the folk that need this are ignorant that it is needed
With the possible parent as an exception.

Smells like No True Scotsman

[Kaz Kylheku]

Well, it's not actually the world's first washable keyboard, just the world's first pretty, consumer-oriented washable keyboard.

If you take any category of thing and add more and more restrictions, you can arrive at a world's best, world's first, etc.

Hospitals

[Anonymous Coward]

Have been using washable keyboards in emergency rooms for years, at least in the UK.

No Model M

[reve_etrange]

It's real steel springs or nothing, baby.

So "Ads disabled" doesn't mean what I thought?

[ratbag]

It's new, it's washable, but it's already been done at least twice by other companies. So it ain't news, it's an advert. Grrr.

Lies

[rebelwarlock]

What the hell are they talking about? Every roll up keyboard I've ever seen is washable. Those little things are awesome, if a little quick to wear.

Re:Lies

[drinkypoo]

Every roll up keyboard I've ever seen is washable. Those little things are awesome,

if by awesome you mean complete shit to type on and a lifespan best measured in hours if you type vigorously. They have only one purpose in life, enabling poolside computing. Not sure how you're supposed to point though. Maybe a wacom in a baggie.

ALL ELECTRONICS is washable, ffs.

[FridgeFreezer]

I realise there's a low quota of hardware nerds on here, but most electronics gets washed on the production line to remove flux and contaminants.

The biggie with *any* electronics is to not use anything that causes damage or corrosion, and to have the device powered off until it's absolutely dry (if using water) to prevent shorts or electrolytic corrosion.

The best thing is isopropyl alcohol, aside from being a bit of a hazard to some paint/stickers etc. it's about the top thing for cleaning electronics.

Any keyboard

[Bert64]

I have frequently washed regular keyboards in this way... So long as you leave it a long time to dry (usually overnight in the boiler closet) they work just fine afterwards. Considering how cheap keyboards are, i saw nothing to lose by washing it and having already bought a new one, now had a spare.

Fantastic Customer Support

[goldcd]

Bought a keyboard from a bargain bin, then realized one of the lifters was missing on the back. Mailed Logitech to see if they sold replacements - Sorry, but we've put a whole new keyboard in the post to you gratis.
Bought a Logitech Harmony, couldn't get a thingie to work (software issue on my PC) - Indian call centre guy (I only mention this as my heart had initially crashed when I heard the accent) was fantastic, talked me through installing and using alternate client, stayed on phone until I'd confirmed it was all working - and then called me back the next day just to check everything was OK before he closed the case.
Remote finally died, as things do - No repair service we're afraid, but here's a 50% voucher off any Harmony you might wish to replace it with.
Logitech are one of the very few companies that I will definitely pay extra for. I feel emotionally attached and if I hear they've had a bad quarter, I feel bad - I'm rooting for the guy that's swimming against the tide in the general race to the bottom.

Re:Fantastic Customer Support

[Anonymous Coward]

Bought a keyboard from a bargain bin, then realized one of the lifters was missing on the back. Mailed Logitech to see if they sold replacements - Sorry, but we've put a whole new keyboard in the post to you gratis.

Bought a Logitech Harmony, couldn't get a thingie to work (software issue on my PC) - Indian call centre guy (I only mention this as my heart had initially crashed when I heard the accent) was fantastic, talked me through installing and using alternate client, stayed on phone until I'd confirmed it was all working - and then called me back the next day just to check everything was OK before he closed the case.

Remote finally died, as things do - No repair service we're afraid, but here's a 50% voucher off any Harmony you might wish to replace it with.

Logitech are one of the very few companies that I will definitely pay extra for. I feel emotionally attached and if I hear they've had a bad quarter, I feel bad - I'm rooting for the guy that's swimming against the tide in the general race to the bottom.

I've had just the opposite experience with Logitech customer service. A Harmony remote lcd screen died in less than 1 year. Logitech said it was my fault. Finally got them to replace it on warranty; but they said that "once" it happened again they wouldn't replace it. I too was offered the 50% discount; which is what I paid on amazon. A little used joystick stopped working after a dozen rock fetch emails I finally gave up completely on Logitech. I have a speaker system from them that has a flakey power switch after less than a year. I've owned many many Logitech products over the years; but the current company doesn't stand behind its warranty and the products are weak. I'll bet if washing the keyboard causes it to fail they'll say something like you must use water from Oregeon.

Re:Fantastic Customer Support

[davewoods]

Hey, me too! I used to subscribe to the e-mail their CEO sent out every quarter with their latest news and info on how the company was doing. Any time I buy any peripheral, I buy Logitech.

I have a G15 keyboard at home, and I brought my G9 mouse to work.

My only complaint with the company is that my MX Revolution has consistently poor connection issues, though I did buy it when they first introduced it, and it only started having problems a couple Months ago after constant use. I would say 6 years was a good lifetime.

A possible enhancement to this keyboard

[Taco Cowboy]

If they can make the USB connector detachable from this keyboard, then we do not need to worry about wetting the USB connector and ruin the whole thing
 

Re:A possible enhancement to this keyboard

[Dogtanian]

If they can make the USB connector detachable from this keyboard, then we do not need to worry about wetting the USB connector and ruin the whole thing

Hey Slashdot? Can we please have a 'Stupid' option included in the moderator drop down list?

In this case I'm not sure whether we need a "Stupid" moderation for the OP's post, or a "Whoosh" moderation for yours...

Re:A possible enhancement to this keyboard

[davewoods]

Apparently "Funny", and "Redundant" will have to do for now.

Every parent in the whole world

[David Gerard]

Every parent of a small child IN THE WHOLE WORLD will be ordering one of these. I will next time the small child destroys another keyboard - currently on her third. AAAAAAAA

Re:Every parent in the whole world

[drinkypoo]

You're better off buying $3 keyboards, because the small child will find a way to destroy the more expensive ones, too. Disposable culture is abhorrent but as long as we live in one it's got its enjoyable side. Besides, as has been repeated ad infinitum above, most keyboards will survive a trip through the dishwasher.

And if it is anything like the Kensington washable

[Anonymous Coward]

it is complete crap to try to touch type upon.

Squisy, mushy, limited key stroke, no key feel at all. Might as well have been an old Atari 400 flat keyboard for all the typing quality it offered.

I advocate

[SpaghettiPattern]

Although IANAL I advocate to speed up drying using a spin dryer/centrifuge to speed up the process. It nowhere states that it's not allowed so we should go for it, just like dogs in the microwave.

Yeah, I'm a guy that always sleeps like a baby at night. I'm never hindered by any rational sentiments whatsoever.

Doesnt look that comfortable...

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like crap to actually use for.. i dont know, typing words on.

nothing new here

[Tastecicles]

I have a Keysonic silicon rubber keyboard (foldable, rollable, completely watertight and very, very rugged) that's been in my kit for years.

correction: logitec created the first peeable keyb

[Anonymous Coward]

correction: logitec created the first peeable keyboard.
now you can go and pee on your boss keyboard , after he pisses you off.

Free?

[Anonymous Coward]

With every subscription to Vivid online...

Other Methods

[dhermann]

I prefer my cleaning method of turning the keyboard upside-down and shaking out bagel crumbs from three months ago and hair from a person that is definitely not me. I feel like it's really clean after about nine or ten good shakes.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have to bother with the screwdriver. I worked at an Internet cafe about 12 years ago and we used to dishwash the keyboards with the cuppercino cups. We never had a keyboard failure but if we did, keyboards cost less than the $40 Logitech are charging. The secret is to leave them drying overnight.

Seal Shield

[wuzzleface]

Been using one over a year. they make a range of washable products: keyboards, universal remotes, mice. All dishwasher safe. They include a cover for the USB connector. http://www.sealshield.com/

Excellent

[operagost]

FAP tag added.

Been using a dishwasher safe keyboard for ages

[Anonymous Coward]

These things have existed for a long time for hospital keyboards/mice that need to be sterilized or at least disinfected. They're not even very expensive. I've been using my current "Seal Shield" keyboard for years now without issue. Many trips under the sink and through the (medium) dishwasher cycle. don't even give it time to dry in between other than a quick towel down.

Good stuff.

But, but...

[virgnarus]

If I have a clean keyboard, what will I turn to when I need to acquire emergency food rations?

Microsoft natural elite...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've unscrewed them, pulled out the circuit board, dish washer-d, drieded overnight and reassembled no problem.

Current one actually looks about due.

My keyboards tend to get hair under the keys, so I'm not sure if not dismantling them would work... things would probably clump.

Anyone know if I can just leave the PCB in it and wash?

fap

[Anonymous Coward]

fap fap fap fap fap

Still using my iFeel mouse

[HalAtWork]

I'm still using my iFeel mouse that I got for $15 in a bargain bin 10 years ago. Too bad nothing actually makes use of the rumble feature.