Slashdot Mirror


What Developers Can Learn From Anonymous

snydeq writes "Regardless of where you stand on Anonymous' tactics, politics, or whatever, I think the group has something to teach developers and development organizations,' writes Andrew Oliver. 'As leader of an open source project, I can revoke committer access for anyone who misbehaves, but membership in Anonymous is a free-for-all. Sure, doing something in Anonymous' name that even a minority of "members" dislike would probably be a tactical mistake, but Anonymous has no trademark protection under the law; the organization simply has an overall vision and flavor. Its members carry out acts based on that mission. And it has enjoyed a great deal of success — in part due to the lack of central control. Compare this to the level of control in many corporate development organizations. Some of that control is necessary, but often it's taken to gratuitous lengths. If you hire great developers, set general goals for the various parts of the project, and collect metrics, you probably don't need to exercise a lot of control to meet your requirements."

22 of 120 comments (clear)

  1. What the group has to teach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What the group has to teach is simple: If all you want is to disturb the normal process, and highlight certain aspects, then you don't need much organization.

    Wake me up when anonymous actually produced something non-trivial.

    1. Re:What the group has to teach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Everything I need to know about Anonymous I learned in Junior High School.

    2. Re:What the group has to teach by jones_supa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly. Destroying anarchistically random stuff all over the Internet and putting the label "Anonymous" on it, not much sophistication required.

    3. Re:What the group has to teach by poity · · Score: 2

      It doesn't seem like the author has convinced himself, either.
      FTA:

      I've seen a lot of organizations function with neither shared vision or a plan. I've yet to see a successful software project without both.

      If you read all the way to the end, you'll realize it was just an attention-grabber intro that didn't get analyzed all that much (cue infoworld rubbing their hands together and grinning), and that he's just against managerial interference when a group of devs are working well together. Well, no shit...

      --
      your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    4. Re:What the group has to teach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually this is incredibly hard, no matter how you put it. Humans, and I mean every one in the species, are by nature social creatures. We all, not crave, but need attention, approval to some degree. Pulling off stuff like that but resisting the urge to stamp your name on it, or even a nickname is quite incredible.

      My only issue with them, is that they make it easier for politicians to push people into using real credentials on the net. I enjoy my anonymity, we might lose that sooner or later, but I would have prefered it was later.

      As for what they do ... well, banks are supposed to be secure, isn't that the reason people trust banks, why they deposit money there? If they start losing customers, it's not because the customers saw their data online, but because their false advertisment for security.

      Politicians ... well, they're representatives of the people, there's this thing called transparency, if the guy I voted for, the I NEED to know about it, even if it reveales personal aspects of his personal life. Isn't this what democracy is about? Needs of the many over the needs of the few?

      In the summary it says "the organization simply has an overall vision and flavor." for religion or politicals this is called doctrine. As long as they don't make the mistake those two do, of focusing on a few individuals or something more than the basic idea, the movement will keep on going virtually unhindered for years.

      What they're doing is wrong, but there's no other alternative, police, and other law enforcement bodies are useless in these situations, and the press ... well, the term yellow journalism appeared two seconds after the term journalism was created.

    5. Re:What the group has to teach by johnlcallaway · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Banks are supposed to be secure .. and a responsible person would notify the bank if they found the door unlocked instead of giving out private information to strangers on the street.

      Politicians are representatives of the people. Their personal lives are not important, only what they do when on the job. Other people have jobs, should their employers have access to their private lives???

      Anonymous gets all the attention they need within their own group and by the publicity they generate. Kind of like serial killers who thrive off the publicity and kill more so they get more attention. 'They' know who they are, and they know people are talking about them. It's not necessary for them for people to know their name. In fact, it's the secrecy that is so attractive, doing something wrong, and talking with your buddies about it but knowing your buddies aren't in on the secret.

      Anonymous is a terrible model. For one, it requires fanatical devotion. How many programmers out there are going to get that fanatical about rewriting 20 year old COBOL code??? I'm sure it works great for open source products where people can get excited about what they are doing. But for the other 90% of tasks out there, I seriously doubt it will work.

      I seem to have a different idea of the fun stuff I want to work on than what my boss wants me to work on. Without his telling me what to work on, it's doubtful the stuff he finds important would ever get done. Oh wait .. I work on the stuff he finds important because if I didn't he would fire me.

      Seems to me like Anonymous is more like the establishment than they are willing to admit.

      --
      I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
    6. Re:What the group has to teach by Dodgy+G33za · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When a politician stands on the podium with their wives and children, it is them that have brought them into the discussion. When they preach conservative "family" values that effect the whole of the electorate, but are happy to sleep with hookers, then no, they do not have a right to privacy. Same with those that preach morals from the pulpit or the vatican balcony and then don't report the kiddie fiddlers to the police.

      The thing is, those is public office often get additional protections (killing a cop is worse than killing a non-cop for example). With privilege comes responsibility, and the other side of the coin is that a cop who abuses their position, or a politician who is a hypocrite, should be called to account.

    7. Re:What the group has to teach by canadiannomad · · Score: 2

      I find it interesting how democracy, a selection of one of two similarly leaning people by a minority of the populous, is considered so superior to a group of smart people trying, no matter how misguidedly, to educate people about how broken the system is.

      --
      Hmm, the humour and sarcasm seem to have been be lost on you.
    8. Re:What the group has to teach by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

      Yyyyyyeah... the moment I finished the summary, I wondered, "wait, don't we already have Agile development?"

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    9. Re:What the group has to teach by Dodgy+G33za · · Score: 2

      Not true.

      Google "kevin rudd and family" and you will see the Ex-Australian Prime Minister at Labor party conferences with his family.

      Put "tony blair and family" into your favourite search engine and you will see them posing outside of no.10 Downing Street.

      You can try "angela merkel and her family" or "nicolas sarkozy and family"..... well, I could go on but you get the picture?

  2. Depends on your requirements by melonman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I was reading "The mythical man-month" only this weekend, which starts with the observation that "everyone knows" that two kids in a garage can do more than a corporate development team, and then points out that, if this was actually true without caveats, corporations would hire two kids in a garage every time. There's a difference between producing a standalone program and developing/maintaining a product system.

    --
    Virtually serving coffee
    1. Re:Depends on your requirements by Missing.Matter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What you've just said is something many entrepreneurs find out too late: that ideas are dime a dozen, and execution is what really differentiates successes from failures. Strong organizations differ significantly from "two kids in a garage," in that they have people who are experienced in execution and all it entails including: capital management, marketing, legal, supply chain, distribution, manufacturing, personnel, security, infrastructure etc. These things all need to coordinate with R&D and work on specific timelines to sync with departments, and this is all happening in parallel. Two guys in a garage operate serially, so management isn't really needed.

      I know most people here are developers, so most of us see the world in developer-colored glasses, so saying things like "Just hire good developers and let them loose and they'll churn out good work and you'll be a success." is just plain wrong. They'll do what good developers do: develop. And that might be enough to make a good product (or in some cases a good prototype or preproduction product), but it's not enough to make a successful product. This is also why the "two guys in a garage" stories are few and far between; their efforts were met with a good deal of luck and happenstance which drove their success. Right place, right time sort of stuff. Everyone else with the next big idea in their garage met with failure because they lacked execution.

    2. Re:Depends on your requirements by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

      TMMM is right but not for the reasons you cite. I have often extolled the merits of using a more or less autonomous team of highly skilled developers instead of following the corporate habit of using a closely managed team of so-so, interchangable programmers, preferably outsourced to some cheap-labor outfit in India or China. Few corporations want to go that route, but not because the autonomous team would be more expensive, or produce poorly maintainable and undocumented code, unfit to hand over to a support team. Neither is (or has to be) true.

      There are a few other reasons corporations steer away from crack teams:
      - Many managers are good at managing resources but they suck at managing people. In HR Lingo: they find talent management difficult. Which is true for talent in almost all non-managerial career paths, by the way. So they prefer to manage by the numbers, hire 3 mid-level c# guys, a senior UX designer, and a junior db person, rather than hire 5 (or probably fewer) crack programmers who, combined, posess all the necessary skills between them. The first group comes off the shelf. The second group needs to be found, which is harder.
      - Corporate IT managers favour predictability and accountability over speed, quality and cost. They prefer to wait a bit and get a mediocre product that comes with a well defined SLA at a fixed cost, over a superior product that is "likely" to be developed faster and "probably" costs less. Quotation marks indicate that we're dealing with stuff that is not part of any SLA.

      The two kids in a garage produce better work, and work faster and cheaper... most of the time. However the actual effort and results from project to project are hard to predict, and more difficult to manage. That is why corporations don't go for autonomous crack teams even if they can be an order of magnitude better. Thankfully some corporations are starting to see the value of having such people on the payroll (or on long term contracts), letting them organise their own work and steering on outcome rather than process, often in projects designated as "pilots" but set up to come up with production-ready software. It's how I make my living these days...

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
  3. Do we need Anonymous to learn this? by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    the organization simply has an overall vision and flavor. Its members carry out acts based on that mission. And it has enjoyed a great deal of success — in part due to the lack of central control. Compare this to the level of control in many corporate development organizations. Some of that control is necessary, but often it's taken to gratuitous lengths. If you hire great developers, set general goals for the various parts of the project, and collect metrics, you probably don't need to exercise a lot of control to meet your requirements

    This is standard common sense, and the negative effects of over/micro-managing and red tape are recognized (and felt) not just in software but in all endeavours (even within families.) We know what to do about that in all forms of organizations and projects.

    That people and project still fall far from the well-known solutions, that has more to do with human behavior, team dynamics and the economics of the incentives/rewards, disinsentives/penalties, (whether tangible or psychological, subjective or objective) than anything else.

    Anonymous, with its faceless nature (that precludes the realities of disinsentives and penalties), and incoherent goals, has nothing to teach us or anyone engaged in a real-life project or mission subject to incentives and disinsentives, and the realities of identifiable human relations.

    The article might be good to drive traffic (ZOMG, Anonymous in teh titl3!), I'll give the author that </journalistic-attention-whoring>

  4. Re:Exactly by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 2

    Exactly, in most corporate environments you have to go through so many bosses (most of which shouldn't be making technical decisions) before you can ever get anything done.

    Citations please. True that those organizations exist, but in my experience, they are the exception rather than the rule. Obviously, saying that most companies are like that makes good stuff for posting in teh slashdotties water coolers, but c'mon.

  5. History backs this up... by McCat · · Score: 2

    I remember a /. comment from a week or two back that mentioned a colleague/peer who was told he had to submit reports on the number of new lines of code produced every week. Through editing and refining the software, he ended up with a net loss of 20,000 lines of code (and submitted -20,000 in his report). Ultimately, he ended up submitting weekly reports that didn't really "mean" anything-- but was never questioned because his work was good and profitable. Just this week my supervisor was gone on vacation. Our department ran more smoothly than it has for months because my peers and I took care of all our necessary duties and paperwork without having to deal with the stress of a boss fretting about reports getting submitted and said boss being fired for insufficient job performance. However, while the principle holds true, I think there are guidelines required for it to be the most practical principle by which to run a company/department. For example, employees need to have firm directional guidance for their work-- just no heavy-handed iron-fistedness.

    1. Re:History backs this up... by McCat · · Score: 2

      I think your comment illustrates how people like you can "learn from Anonymous."

  6. What Black can learn from White by tverbeek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The only lesson here is that creating chaos doesn't require any kind of organizational structure (which is almost tautological). Producing something orderly is a whole different question, and unless you happen to have an infinite number of monkeys at your disposal, the chance of that happening in a finite period of time is pretty damn improbable.

    --
    http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    1. Re:What Black can learn from White by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 2

      The fact that Anonymous is able to get literally thousands of people to agree on a common target, launch a program(which they developed), and stick with running it for more than a few seconds with little to no feedback from it is truly a remarkable feat of organization

      That is a false statement. A hand of people decide to attack a target. Thousands of sheeple out to stick it to the Man are running the program with little or no knowledge of what the program does, how it does it, or who is actually being attacked. The programs are developed by a small group of people and not the thousands of sheeple.

      Basically, Anonymous consist of a very small group of deciders, some or all of whom are the technically skilled group who created the tools, and a massive group of idiotic followers who simply do what they are told when they are told so they will feel like they are empowered when they are just sheep. These same followers think that DDoS the CIA's public website is the same as hacking into the CIA's internal network and servers. They mistake tearing down posters for doing real damage.

      That is your "having their shit together".

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  7. Yeah, if your goal is anarchy by Dachannien · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And it has enjoyed a great deal of success - in part due to the lack of central control.

    But Anonymous hasn't really done anything that requires the true contributive efforts of more than a few people at a time. LOIC doesn't count, because "here, run this" isn't in the same ballpark as actually contributing code to a project. The person/people who wrote LOIC still exercised control over the actual software and made decisions about what features went in and what didn't.

  8. Re:Best practices by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 2

    the organization simply has an overall vision and flavor. Its members carry out acts based on that mission. And it has enjoyed a great deal of success — in part due to the lack of central control. Compare this to the level of control in many corporate development organizations. Some of that control is necessary, but often it's taken to gratuitous lengths. If you hire great developers, set general goals for the various parts of the project, and collect metrics, you probably don't need to exercise a lot of control to meet your requirements

    This is standard common sense, and the negative effects of over/micro-managing and red tape are recognized (and felt) not just in software but in all endeavours (even within families.) We know what to do about that in all forms of organizations and projects.

    That people and project still fall far from the well-known solutions, that has more to do with human behavior, team dynamics and the economics of the incentives/rewards, disinsentives/penalties, (whether tangible or psychological, subjective or objective) than anything else.

    Anonymous, with its faceless nature (that precludes the realities of disinsentives and penalties), and incoherent goals, has nothing to teach us or anyone engaged in a real-life project or mission subject to incentives and disinsentives, and the realities of identifiable human relations.

    The article might be good to drive traffic (ZOMG, Anonymous in teh titl3!), I'll give the author that </journalistic-attention-whoring>

    Micro-management shouldn't be the object. The object should be to develop a system to distribute best practices.

    First, best practices care about a lot of things beyond management. Secondly, best practices cannot be defined without first having something to compare (favorably) across an spectrum of things, and not just one spectrum, but a multiplicity of them (coding, process, management, etc.) In the management spectrum, micro-management sits on the polar opposite of management-related best practices. Ergo, one cannot describe or study best practices without first identifying and understanding the pathological case one has to avoid (at best) or directly deal with (at worst): in this case, micro-managing.

    This could apply to Anonymous or to software development where more experienced workers can share their best practices with less experienced workers.

    But herein lies the problem: anonymous and software development are not comparable, not unless you want to stretch the definition of problem statement. But that's just Reductio ad Absurdum just to fit an argument.

    The other is to focus on the process of making critical decisions. The problem of decision making can only be solved by developing a methodology of decision making along with some basic rules to follow when making certain types of decisions.

    Which problem of decision making are we referring to here?

    If this is Anonymous then it's what is a legitimate vs illegitimate op. Emphasis should be on the process of decision making so that there is a standard process or guideline for choosing an op.

    How does this draw lessons for software development, and to general projects and missions with identifiable players? Is it a legitimate argument that requires Anonymous as an example (which is what the article says, remember the topic)?

    If it's software development then developers need to know when to use certain designs and when not to use them or when certain tools work best and not others.

    But that's a myopic view of software development because software development does not work in a vacuum. There is an organizational context at play that will guide (or force) a developer's hand into what choices to make. One cannot talk about the former without considering the later.

  9. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion