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With 'Access Codes,' Textbook Pricing More Complicated Than Ever

jyosim writes "Some see it as the latest ploy by textbook publishers to kill the used book market: 'access codes' for online supplements for course work. In some cases professors require students to purchase these codes in order to even see the required homework. One U. of Maine's student's struggle to find a reasonably priced textbook demonstrates the limits the new publisher practices put on students, but some argue that ultimately the era of digital course materials will be better for student learning."

22 of 400 comments (clear)

  1. Businessmen by Tommy+Bologna · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They hate that you have the advantages they did in school. Now that they've crossed the bridge, it must be burned.

    1. Re:Businessmen by benjfowler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's the baby boomers. They grew up in the drug-fucked 'free love' Sixties, got free education, raped and pillaged the environment, robbed their kids and grandkids in the asset bubble.

      The "bugger you Jack, I've got mine" Baby Boomer generation are the worst generation. We should take their pensions and health insurance off them, let them die in the gutter and use the pay to pay off the deficit.

    2. Re:Businessmen by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well.. Paul Ryan in particular. The government helped him through his tragedy with social security payments which he smartly used to get through school, and now he wants to be sure no one else can pull themselves up in the same way.

    3. Re:Businessmen by Jawnn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Jeez... Generalize much?

    4. Re:Businessmen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful
      That's what I don't get. Somewhere along the way the "help everyone achieve anything," free-love, equality and peace messages turned into "Fuck you. I made my money and now that I have to pay in, we need to remove the social safety nets. OH, and not just that, but I'm going to make it that much harder for you to make as much money as I did."

      I understand that it's cliche and all-too circular to blame the generation before you for the world's problems, but the baby-boomers really fucked us. Raw.

    5. Re:Businessmen by characterZer0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This happens with every generation. The self-centered jerks reveal themselves as time goes on. The politicians are businessmen are mostly self-centered jerks.

      --
      Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
    6. Re:Businessmen by mcgrew · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's the baby boomers. They grew up in the drug-fucked 'free love' Sixties,

      And?

      got free education,

      So did my kids. So did you. College? Nope, we had to pay, too.

      raped and pillaged the environment,

      We were the generation that got the Clean Air and Clean Water acts passed. It was our parents and grandparents' generations that raped the environment; actually, not OUR parents but the rich kids' parents... who are now fighting for the end of the environmental regs we fought for.

      You sound like an unemployed white racist who blames blacks for his troubles and the black who blames whites for his poverty, when it's the rich of both races that are to blame. It's not my generation, it's the rich of all generations. Mitt Romney's "I like to fire people" isn't an opinion held by many boomers.

      The "bugger you Jack, I've got mine" isn't my generation's attitude, that's Mitt Romney and Donald Trump's income level's attitude.

      You're fighting the wrong enemy in the wrong war.

    7. Re:Businessmen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To rephrase what you wrote, "your sweeping generalizations are wrong because my sweeping generalizations are correct."

    8. Re:Businessmen by The+Second+Horseman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, but Ryan isn't a baby boomer. He was born in 1970, so that either puts him on the tail end of Gen X if you've extended past the "original" timeframe used for that term, or else early GenY. As a slightly-older GenX, I couldn't stand this kind of jackass 25 years ago, and I can't stand them now. He's clearly in love with himself, and how clever he thinks he is, and he somehow doesn't think he's relied on other people to get there. And let's not forget that he's only managed to get a couple of pieces of meaningless legislation (naming a post office and lowering excise tax on arrow shafts) through Congress in 14 years..

      Hell, he even thinks he's brilliant enough to reconcile Catholicism and Objectivism. That's a level of mental contradiction that's only possible if you're shallow or delusional - or you're just a power-hungry, cynical political hack who doesn't have any real principles.

    9. Re:Businessmen by jythie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The point is that the ratio of income from the two age groups is further out of whack then it ever has been, so the older generation is holding on to more wealth rather then the younger one advancing like they normally would. In other words they are putting in the same years of hard work as the previous generation, but not getting the same amount of reward.

      Also:

      I'd be willing to guess their incomes were not much different (in 70's/80's dollars) to today's youth, but their standards of living were probably lower.

      That is part of the point, their incomes WERE different. They were doing much better then people of similar age today.

    10. Re:Businessmen by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The Boomers was really a short sited generation.

      At least we can handle homophones.

    11. Re:Businessmen by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Personally, I put it down to the Boomers deciding that Rules Are Bad(tm). Yes, the powerful can manipulate the rules to their own ends. Yes, rules sometimes prevent you from doing what you want. But sometimes, rules are all that prevent the powerful from simply taking everything they want. Sometimes, rules are the only thing preventing a person from acting like a self-centered asshole. Rules are necessary; they just need to be *good* rules.

    12. Re:Businessmen by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think so, as the generation that went through the depression and WWII tried to work together, not constantly stab each other in the backs.

      My grandma talked about how the neighbors and her would get together to make "hobo soup" so that those traveling the rails would have a bite to eat when they stopped in their little town, and in return, without asking mind you, she never had to split a single rick of wood and every chore that needed doing would be done by a hobo. The entire town looked after each other and if someone got sick or hurt the others would come round to help them get back on their feet again.

      It went from that to a serious "Fuck you I'm entitled and you're not" attitude which i truly believe came from being spoiled rotten. The previous generation had suffered and struggled and during the boom years of the 50s was generous to a fault with their kids, only the kids just took the cash and not the lessons to appreciate what they had and help those who had less. If you'd have pushed a Gordon Gecko style character in the 40s and 50s he'd have been looked down on as a piece of self centered trash, their kids looked at him as a hero and a perfect example of their ethos.

      Sad really but that's just how it turned out and now as they get old they scream and whine and demand million dollar treatments to keep their asses from the grave just a few more months.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    13. Re:Businessmen by drooling-dog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As a tail-end "baby boomer", what has always struck me the most about successive generations is how incredibly passive they have been in the face of some really serious shit being done to them. This isn't about one generation screwing the next any more than it's ever been. It's about a war that's been waged in the U.S. against the middle and working classes (of all ages) for the past 30 years. Public education has been under attack, along with labor unions, Social Security, Medicare, etc. But instead of hitting the streets and demanding a better deal, all we've seen since then (except for OWS) is helpless whining and complaining, just like yours. And mine, too, for that matter, because times have changed and we've forgotten how to act.

      If your parents did you any disservice, maybe it was a failure to instill a sense of collective power and efficacy. But it seems that every generation through history has had to discover that on its own.

  2. Mark of a shitty instructor by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hey Kids!

    If your instructor is doing something like this to you, he/she is an asshole. If you can run FAR away or, if you can't avoid the person teaching, be cautious at every turn. If a prof is inflicting this type of B.S. on students then they another jerk you need to avoid in getting your education.

    The unis that I have worked at are trying to avoid this every chance they get by developing their own online course system or (ugh) using Blackboard. Most profs I personally know do things to try to avoid extra costs to their students. This type of behavior is the mark of a jerk.

    1. Re:Mark of a shitty instructor by __aaeihw9960 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've found that in most cases, the instructor isn't the one to blame, it's the university/college. In my experience, the instructors genuinely want to keep costs down, but an administrator has AN EXCITING NEW PROGRAM for your students to try. So, they mandate that all intro-level X classes use Y book with Z code. Now, obviously this doesn't stand in your higher level courses, but I have yet to see a higher level course that uses these codes.

  3. Citation Of Fact Needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    some argue that ultimately the era of digital course materials will be better for student learning.

    And some say that The Stig has three testicles, but only uses one at a time in order to prevent sextuplet pregnancies. But, the statement has no basis in fact.

    The web is not the least bit short of 'some saying' that digital learning is better than anything prior and those that question this "wisdom" are old luddites that fear change, lack vision and want to stymy progress. But, simply saying that repeatedly does not make it a fact.

    I'd like to see some fact based scientific evidence that these new technologies and techniques do in fact provide better learning that before. Does the online material for Chemistry 201 genuinely provide better learning than the third-time-used and battered text book originally printed 10 years ago? I just can't see how it can. The actual course material hasn't changed and simply replacing a paper book with an ephemeral online copy of the same doesn't seem likely to improve learning.

    I can see that the new online material can make for more profits, greater ease for professors, greater portability provided you've got power and internet where ever you go, and even greater ease for quick look-ups by students. But, none of those benefits prove greater learning. None of them prove faster learning, better retention, deeper or easier understanding...

    But, despite the lack of proof; "iPads for all students" continues to be a daily headline where 'some say it greatly enhances education' and no proof is ever given.

  4. Re:college is becoming a cash grab and we need bet by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, as I've said before we need to uncouple job training and university study again.

    University studies were meant for people that wanted to learn and study. Right now the whole meme is that you go to university to get a better job. There is nothing wrong with that, but that isn't what universities were created for. Not everyone should go to a University and there should be no shame in that.

  5. Re:Rate them down by Stirling+Newberry · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "Look you get this free web site..."

    Please don't insult our intelligence, the e-sites reduce grading time. Charging your students for homework on top of tuition that is going up faster than inflation, and has for three decades, in the face of falling efficacy, is highway robbery of the young. You should be ashamed of yourself, but obviously are not.

  6. Re:It isn't really the publishers fault. by mx+b · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Writing assignments is not that hard. And I say that having just finished preparing the tutorial and assignment for the class I'm teaching tomorrow.

    This is true. Professors that use online homework because they do not want to bother are incredibly lazy in my opinion. I write my own assignments to tailor them to our lecture discussions. I will even revise homeworks based on unique questions I get every semester. I applaud you for making your own tutorial for your class. I feel this is what everyone should really do... if they had the time.

    The lack of time is partly also due to the overcrowding of schools. I have known instructors to get overloaded during semesters because the university doesn't want to pay to hire another adjunct (or to make someone full-time, etc). Not condoning it, but I can sympathize, having had overloaded semesters myself. Not even necessarily overloaded with classes, but the class sizes have become so huge that maintaining your own assignments and grading them by hand is an all day affair and you simply run out of time. At some point, I just have to stop grading because I realize I haven't eaten all day, or the laundry needs done, or dishes washed, or hell, sometimes I just want to be a human and spend some time with the wife or the cats.

    I like being able to give direct feedback, and to know how my class is doing myself (in an online machine-graded course, all you have is statistics, but students can cheat or get the right answer by the wrong reasoning sometimes, and you cannot have any clue what they are truly thinking unless you sit and read their papers and grade by hand), but again I can sympathize with the lack of time to do such things. There's a lot of problem with this whole education system all the way up the chain, and while I am not happy with the proliferation of shitty textbooks and online testing systems, I think we should recognize that in many cases, this is not the sign of a lazy professor but an overworked professor. We need to overhaul everything, and I will be on record stating I do not mind paying more in taxes if it goes to fund professors directly to allow class sizes to be smaller, and instructional material to be more unique. Perhaps it will only begin to change if we all start to send statements to this effect to our congresscritters.

  7. Businessmen my ass by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What is a 'wealth' gap? Who decides there is a certain amount of wealth that each age group is supposed to have, what are those numbers?

    Nice strawman. It's not about "deciding" how much each group is supposed to have (in a moral/deontological ethical way). It's about the gap between the two groups that is measurable (and thus comparable/quantifiable) accross the decades. The gap is there, it's measurable, it's obvious, and it requires explaining. Yours is not an explanation by any stretch of the definition. Furthermore, you are asking "who" "decides" how much each group has. That same question begets the following one: who decided that the income gap must be greater than the ones in prior decades/generations?

    Ok, so those in the 55+ demographic are the ones who started and built back in the 70's/80's many of the recognized companies that exist today and in doing so they made some good money. That is exactly what they intended to do.

    This would be nice and dandy if these were the very first folks in the history of the US who made up companies that made money. Alas, they were not. There were businesses and businessmen before them, quite successful and their companies still exist today. And yet, the generational income gap present at the times preceeding the Baby Boomers was never the way it is now. Hand waving is not a valid argument.

    Wonder what their incomes looked like 20-30 years ago when they were building their businesses (either as early employees of founders)? I'd be willing to guess

    Why guess? Verify.

    their incomes were not much different (in 70's/80's dollars) to today's youth, but their standards of living were probably lower.

    So if their income weren't that different from today's youth (which is not true), and their standards of living were lower (they were), then the income gap as measured today is greater than what it was in the past, say, as a function of the decade in which the measurements took place.

    So to the 18-35 crowd who hasn't made as much money I'd ask, where are the companies that you started?

    Red herring. Not every Baby Boomer was an enterpreneur, and yet the gap between the average Boomer and the average Gen X/Y is greater than the gap that same Boomer experienced with respect to his then senior. Ergo, enterpreneurship is not a factor. It is if you want to present a fallacy as a logical argument, though.

    Where are the years of hard work you put in building wealth?

    Where were the years of hard work the Baby Boomers put when they were young that resulted in a narrower income gap with relation to their then seniors, narrower with respect to the currently observed income gap?

  8. Re:Never buy from the student bookstore by jmerlin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's these stupid elementary courses. Basic undergraduate things where professors who spend most of their time preparing material for their seniors and/or grad students don't want to have to sit down and plan out a semester for the class that has 20 different sections because EVERYONE has to take it. Take Trigonometry for example (calculus, algebra, physics, and a few others also fit this bill). The text I've seen used is $150. That includes a $70 access key. The access key works once. ONCE. The access key allows you to create an account on the publisher's website for that book. The account created lasts for 180 days, if I remember correctly. What it gives you access to is a digital copy of the book (in a web-browser only, not a PDF, they send you data page-by-page), and lacks all of the useful features a digital system should provide (the ability to search, the ability to tag notes inline, etc).

    All this hassle for what? The publisher created a system that would automatically generate questions for each class, and would automatically grade the homework for you (no more professor/TA slaving over your papers).

    The key itself is $70. You can buy the key alone. That's 180 days access to the book and the online course materials (generally required if the text is being used). Not only are these texts garbage on content, but a key to let you flip through pages in a book, do some e-homework assignments, and then lose access to the thing you paid for. Great. And what about the physical text book if you pay the $80 extra for it? Well.. it has less than a 1 star review on Amazon. Terrible text. Awful. It's also at edition 10, hilariously enough. Because elementary trigonometry is a cutting-edge and rapidly evolving field, right? And heaven forbid if you wanted to use edition 9 for your class that requires edition 10, because the access keys from versions before 10 DONT WORK ON THE COURSEWARE FOR VERSION 10. Holy shit. It's so abundantly clear at this point that these systems were designed to screw over students in the most obvious and terrible ways possible. At this rate, I expect in a few decades that all you'll have to do is pay, then wait a few years, and you'll be given your degree.

    Fuck modern texts. You can probably find a classic text on the subject you're interested in, or find what you need in research papers you already have access to via your university. Classic texts are TIMELESS, resell at 90-95% (in good condition), and your library (university or muni) probably already has at least one copy. They're also WAY better, and they don't have 20 editions after 4 years of republication. These modern "textbook" things are a huge, huge scam. So is most of the higher education system. To quote Good Will Hunting:

    See, the sad thing about a guy like you is, in 50 years you're gonna start doin' some thinkin' on your own and you're going to come up with the fact that there are two certainties in life: one, don't do that, and two, you dropped 150 grand on a fuckin' education you could have got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library!

    A person who "learns" (it's more rote memorization of derivation and integration rules) calculus from a modern calculus text is woefully less capable than someone who can handle Apostol or Spivak. It's the difference between learning algorithms from some anemic cheat-sheet type Cliff's Notes reference and CLRS. It's dramatic and obvious. Spend your $200-1000 per credit and $150 on a text book that has no relevance outside of 4 months of your life if you wish, but when you want a real education, when you realize later on that you actually need to learn something, hopefully you'll better know where to find it.