Finnish Bureaucracy Takes Issue With Crowdfunded Textbook

linjaaho writes "Senja Larsen, who runs popular Facebook study group Senja teaches you Swedish, collected $14,161 via Kickstarter's crowd funding service. The project caught much media attention in Finland (TV and all major newspapers), since it is the first crowdfunded book project in this country, and among the first Finnish crowdfunded projects. (Previous ones include the movie Iron Sky, the role-playing game Myrskyn Sankarit, and the Wishbone headphone wire manager). Now, after successfully collecting the funds for the book (and after the book has been edited and printed), the National Police Board of Finland has asked Senja to submit a statement [PDF; Finnish] concerning using crowdfunding to finance a project [PDF; Finnish] and the terminology used. It is possible that all the funding collected must be returned. The main problem is that direct translations of terminology at Kickstarter, such as 'bounty' and 'support,' are interpreted to mean collecting money without giving anything back, and this kind of operation requires a permit which can be only given to associations, not to private persons, and it takes long to apply for such permit."

Comments

.gov gone wild

[Kergan]

Yet another case of bureaucracy gone wild...

Re:.gov gone wild

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not bureucracy gone wild, just common citizen doing things

So you're quite happy to live in a world where every time you want to "do things" you have to go scouring through law books and beg the government for permission?

Re:.gov gone wild

[Jerry Smith]

It's not bureucracy gone wild, just common citizen doing things

So you're quite happy to live in a world where every time you want to "do things" you have to go scouring through law books and beg the government for permission?

http://www.forbes.com/2010/07/14/world-happiest-countries-lifestyle-realestate-gallup-table.html

I guess s/he probably is. And since his/her gouvernment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index is considered pretty decent, Kickstarter might rethink some of the terms and conditions. They could be misinterpreted, after all.

Re:.gov gone wild

[ewanm89]

Kickstarter is operating under US law in terms of monetary transfers, from the Kickstarter FAQ:

To be eligible to start a Kickstarter project, you need to satisfy the requirements of Amazon Payments:

—You are 18 years of age or older.
—You are a permanent US resident with a Social Security Number (or EIN).
—You have a US address, US bank account, and US state-issued ID (driver’s license).
—You have a major US credit or debit card.

Re:.gov gone wild

[zyzko]

Actually, in this case the defense of Senja Larsen is that she is doing business, not collecting money without giving anything back - which is easier in Finland than getting a permit for asking money for "nothing" or a "good cause".

The law is considered by many associations a relic and it can be abused - for an example Electronic Frontier Finland was sued by the state because their website stated that according to their rules they can receive donations and there was an account number visible. State lost - but they "had to prosecute" because someone anonymously demanded so.

On the other hand the law:

- Prevents money laundering.
- Makes it easier to shut down shady operations which for an example state to collect money for cancer kids and the money goes actually to Thailand vacations of a few "charitable persons" and the kids get two used playstations - at least there is some oversight on who can publicly collect money.

Re:.gov gone wild

[asdf7890]

It's not bureucracy gone wild, just common citizen doing things

So you're quite happy to live in a world where every time you want to "do things" you have to go scouring through law books and beg the government for permission?

And I suppose you are happy living in a world where kids can't have decent chemistry sets because TERRORISM!!1!, and where it is difficult to get through an airport with a laptop because TERRORISTS!!!, in fact where you have to be intimately rubbed down by the TSA in said airport because TERROR!!!!!!!, and so on and so forth.

America: the land of the brainwashed-into-thinking-they-are-more-free-than-others.

Re:.gov gone wild

[Anonymous Coward]

Is publishing a textbook illegal?

For some textbooks, such as the Young Earth Creationist ones, it should be.

Now if they labeled their material as works of moderately entertaining fiction, it might be another story.

Re:.gov gone wild

[cheekyjohnson]

How do you know he doesn't oppose both?

Re:.gov gone wild

[Kjella]

So you're quite happy to live in a world where every time you want to "do things" you have to go scouring through law books and beg the government for permission?

In a lot of cases where I'd call it preemptive crime prevention, yes. For example if you pretend to be a doctor but don't have a license to practice medicine, we don't have to wait for an actual malpractice case. You are already breaking the law just by trying. If you operate a restaurant I don't mind that you have to have a permit so that health inspectors both know you exist and have a right to investigate your facilities before you put people in the hospital. If you pretend to operate a charity, I don't mind that you need a permit that requires documentation that the money goes where you say it's going and is not a fraud. I don't mind that the government must approval of your rental units before there is a house fire where someone doesn't get out because there's no fire exit and you're charged with manslaughter.

A permit is not something the government should hand or not hand out on a whim, it should have a clearly defined list of requirements and those who fulfill the requirements should get a permit. Of course you could say that the "free market" should fix this, that people would simply stop going to unsanitary restaurants but the practical experience has been that the market hasn't fixed this so instead of quoting dogma we found a solution that did. Sure you can have too much bureaucracy as well, but a lot of the time the businesses trying to fly "under the radar" without a permit do so because they are breaking a lot of other laws and regulations that are there for a reason. If I just pick a place to eat at random I don't expect great food, but I do expect that it's fit for human consumption. It's really not too much to ask.

Huh?

[ericloewe]

Aren't you supposed to get something (say, a copy of the final product) in exchange for your contribution? Sounds like some Bureaucrat thinks his workload is a bit low...

Re:Governments are the enemy

[AK Marc]

People asking for donations without the intention of delivering are a major problem. That fraud takes billions every year. Finland has a law to cut down on that. That way, if someone is asking for money, you know they are legitimate, as they have filed all the proper papers and are traceable, even if not fully vetted. I don't see anything unusual or even onerous about this law. But it seems silly that someone entering a business venture didn't find out commonly known rules related to it.

Sounds crazy to a USian

[shaitand]

Basically this seems to suggest that all charity and donations would require a special permit. Even asking someone for help when starving.

But after a bit of thought, it occurs to me that people in Finland don't have to beg for help. Here you need no permit but the collection jar on the counter is for something like a child with cancer. In Finland you wouldn't need a collection jar. Poor and hungry or in need of shelter would beg here. In Finland they would be fed, housed, and given medical treatment without any begging.

We truly are barbaric here in the US in some ways.