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Is a Computer Science Degree Worth Getting Anymore?
snydeq writes "Self-taught technologists are almost always better hires than those with a bachelor's degree in computer science and a huge student loan, writes Andrew Oliver. 'A recruiter recently asked me why employers are so picky. I explained that of the people who earned a computer science degree, most don't know any theory and can't code. Instead, they succeed at putting things on their resume that match keywords. Plus, companies don't consider it their responsibility to provide training or mentoring. In fairness, that's because the scarcity of talent has created a mercenary culture: "Now that my employer paid me to learn a new skill, let me check to see if there's an ad for it on Dice or Craigslist with a higher rate of pay." When searching for talent, I've stopped relying on computer science degrees as an indicator of anything except a general interest in the field. Most schools suck at teaching theory and aren't great at Java instruction, either. Granted, they're not much better with any other language, but most of them teach Java.'"
Self taught and degree arn't mutally exclusive.
Most of the really good programmers I know were largely self taught. They probably did a lot of coding in their spare time through high school, THEN went on to get a degree and finally a job..
This is of course why there is a thing between getting a degree and getting hired .. it's called a job interview! An interest in programming prior to formal education is usually seen as a good quality and will put you ahead of a similar candidate who didn't know what a c++ was till his second year. You probably won't even get in the door at most places without the degree however... so still worth getting one until there is a massive (not just one recruiter) shift in thinking among the HR departments of the world.
Also university isn't just about learning a trade (that's trade school). It's about getting a rounded education in stuff you probably don't give a shit about, building non-technical skills that are important (writing for instance), proving that you can tackle non-trivial problems with minimal supervision, and proving that you can handle a certain level of stress.
I second this. This is the crucial point.
Would mod you up if I had any points...
[quote] that's because the scarcity of talent[/quote] Hogwash, no such scarcity exists. There is a scarcity of talented programmers that will work for minimum wage (inside the U.S.). But that's not really the same thing now, is it?
It is very difficult for the average worker when employers collude to artificially lower wages and keep dissenters unemployed:
http://apple.slashdot.org/story/12/01/20/1433231/doj-investigates-google-apple-and-others-for-no-poaching-agreement
In fairness, that's because the scarcity of talent has created a mercenary culture: "Now that my employer paid me to learn a new skill, let me check to see if there's an ad for it on Dice or Craigslist with a higher rate of pay."
Actually, in true fairness people do this because most companies have no loyalty to their engineers are more than willing to ship their jobs overseas or give it to some less experience person so that they can pay the person shit wages while overworking them.
Um, what? We just went through the worst recession in years, and recent CS grads were still getting jobs without a whole lot of effort.
Now we're knee deep into WTF territory. If you have a CS degree, why the hell are you working an IT job?
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
In my previous job my manager was asked to provide a list of keywords that would be used as a filter for resumes.
The list of keywords did not reflect what is in the advertised job description, so if you didn't guess the correct keywords, you were never going to get through.
More and more it's just blind luck if you will put in the phrases that are important, at the same time as writing something that will parse well enough to demonstrate good communication skills.
That's why the whole, "I have a CS degree but I can't get a real job because I don't have experience!" excuse is BS. Anyone worth their salt as a programmer who has a CS degree can MAKE THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE at ANY TIME!
Actually, that excuse is not bullshit in large part, but not because of the employers – because of idiot recruitment agencies. When I was looking for a job (thankfully, in work now), I had several recruitment agencies tell me I was insuitable because I did not have 5 years experience coding for the iPhone. When it was pointed out to them that 1) The iPhone API had only existed for 2 and a half years 2) I had apps in the store, making money 3) I had 10 years of experience coding for Cocoa on OS X, and a bunch of stuff before that, they typically came back with "yes, but those were all hobby projects, not actual industrial experience, we can't accept that".