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How Internet Data Centers Waste Power

Rick Zeman writes "The New York Times has extensively surveyed and analyzed data center power usage and patterns. At their behest, the consulting firm McKinsey & Company analyzed energy use by data centers and found that, on average they were using only 6 percent to 12 percent of the electricity powering their servers to perform computations. The rest was essentially used to keep servers idling and ready in case of a surge in activity that could slow or crash their operations. 'Worldwide, the digital warehouses use about 30 billion watts of electricity, roughly equivalent to the output of 30 nuclear power plants.' In other words, 'A single data center can take more power than a medium-size town.' This is the price being paid to ensure everyone has instant access to every email they've ever received, or for their instant Facebook status update. Data Center providers are finding that they can't rack servers fast enough to provide for users' needs: A few companies say they are using extensively re-engineered software and cooling systems to decrease wasted power. Among them are Facebook and Google, which also have redesigned their hardware. Still, according to recent disclosures, Google's data centers consume nearly 300 million watts and Facebook's about 60 million watts. Many of these solutions are readily available, but in a risk-averse industry, most companies have been reluctant to make wholesale change, according to industry experts."

170 comments

  1. A sales pitch and a loaded gun by Scareduck · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Buy our product or we'll agitate for standards that make them mandatory." It's shit like this that annoys me mightily about the NYT.

    --

    Dog is my co-pilot.

    1. Re:A sales pitch and a loaded gun by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      Yeah. This article struck me as particularly whiny. 30 Nuclear Power Plants! The horror.

      It's almost like they want you to read a paper newspaper or something.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:A sales pitch and a loaded gun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Buy our product or we'll agitate for standards that make them mandatory." It's shit like this that annoys me mightily about the NYT.

      Genuine question: What are you talking about? I don't understand which product the NYT is claiming you should buy. I've read half of TFA and it just sounds like they're reporting facts. What are they selling you?

    3. Re:A sales pitch and a loaded gun by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't really understand this hostility. I read the New York Times online, everyday. I don't get a paper delivered to my door. Those few, those happy few who actually read this new york times article, read it online.

      The circulation is a million pulp, half a million online.

    4. Re:A sales pitch and a loaded gun by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

      TFS mentions "many of these solutions." Maybe those?

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    5. Re:A sales pitch and a loaded gun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TFS mentions "many of these solutions." Maybe those?

      ... but the NYT doesn't sell "many of these solutions," which I took to be the implication from the original comment. Is the NYT not allowed to notice that some companies have implemented solutions to wasting power while others have not? I fail to see how it's a conflict of interest or any sort of strong arm, as was originally implied.

    6. Re:A sales pitch and a loaded gun by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

      Didn't you get the memo? Culture is now so hypersensitivized to everything that any positive mention of anything, however slight, must automatically constitute an endorsement of it. Ambivalent dismissal is the new acknowledgement.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    7. Re:A sales pitch and a loaded gun by icebike · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah. This article struck me as particularly whiny. 30 Nuclear Power Plants! The horror.

      It's almost like they want you to read a paper newspaper or something.

      I question virtually ALL the claims in the story.
      Its nonsense of the highest order, with no research to back it up. Do you see Google or Amazon publishing utilization rates of server farms?

      Do you see Amazon or Google or any cloud provider having problems paying the power bill?
      Did they not say that "Data Center providers are finding that they can't rack servers fast enough to provide for users' needs"?

      If the power bill is paid, what is the problem?

      Why isn't the harm done to the world's resources (and society in general) by publishing the New York Time evaluated?

      Nancy Nielsen, a spokeswoman for The New York Times Company, said only the limited supply of recycled paper constrained the company from using more of it. She said 6.5 percent of the newsprint used by the company contained recycled fibers.

      ...

      ''The inventory of waste newspaper is at an all-time record high,'' said J. Rodney Edwards, a spokesman for the American Paper Institute, a trade organization. ''Mills and paper dealers have in their warehouses over one million tons of newspapers, which represents a third of a year's production. There comes a point when the warehouse space will be completely filled.''

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    8. Re:A sales pitch and a loaded gun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or maybe when you are so berated with advertising every day, including advertising disguised as "news" stories, customer reviews, comment posts, etc... people just stop trusting those sources when they make positive mentions, or pos-mens, of products.

    9. Re:A sales pitch and a loaded gun by Larryish · · Score: 1

      limpwrist

      OMG the icecaps are MELTING!!!

      Because of DATACENTERS!!11 /LIMPWRIST

    10. Re:A sales pitch and a loaded gun by sycodon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I had a visceral reaction to the article. This is because they are pointing out the obvious and then pretending they are performing some kind of public service and pat themselves on the back.

      Do they really think the data centers don't know these things? Do they really think they are not trying to address them? Power costs are pretty high up on the balance sheet and anyone who's been paying attention knows there are millions of dollars spent on researching ways to bring those costs down.

      So it's kind of like a guy standing at a car wreck watching the rescuers trying to pull someone from a car and saying, "if you don't get that guy out of there, he's gonna die". No Shit Sherlock.

      Just shows that reporters are idiots. Always have been and always will be.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    11. Re:A sales pitch and a loaded gun by bobcat7677 · · Score: 1

      This whole article sounds like the writer doesn't really know what they are talking about and just hates "servers". To start with, the description of a "server" is only marginally correct. The biggest example of "environmental infractions" was a situation where a company failed to get operation permits they were supposed to have...which were later issued successfully (guessing they probably didn't even know they were supposed to get permits to run an f'ing generator). The only wrongdoing apparently being that they didn't pay the government tax...not any actual pollution issues. Intentional redundancy for critical systems is demonized. Given everything else in it is written with an equally alarmist tone, I have to question it's overall validity and any other "fact" stated.

    12. Re:A sales pitch and a loaded gun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just shows that reporters are idiots. Always have been and always will be.

      The sad part is how often people will make that connection when faced with their fields of interest, then turn around and believe whatever the headline says about every other subject.

    13. Re:A sales pitch and a loaded gun by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      The latest installment is describing how one particular Microsoft data center is relying on inefficient diesel generators substantially increasing air pollution in the area.

      So no, I don't think the owners of large data centers are in a big hurry to address these issues. They have other priorities.

    14. Re:A sales pitch and a loaded gun by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Yeah...that whole situation is a mash up of idiots.

      M.S. puts in back up generators "community is outraged"...go figure.

      M.S. runs the generators when expanding or otherwise disconnected from the grid. Oh My! They are using them for the purposes they were designed for.

      M.S. uses less power than anticipated and will be fined, so they go ahead and use the power...for nothing. Stupid bureaucrats. That's the same thinking that is used in setting almost all government budgets, if you don't use, it, you'll lose it. In this case if you don't use it, you'll pay a fine.

      But I really like this part:

      “When they first start up, a big, huge cloud of black smoke comes up,” said Ronald Carden, a forklift driver at a nearby fruit warehouse. “It just kind of makes you nauseous.”

      Yes, diesels smoke when you start them up. Always have. Here again, stating the obvious and pretending it's some special insight.

      Idiot reporters.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    15. Re:A sales pitch and a loaded gun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah. This article struck me as particularly whiny. 30 Nuclear Power Plants! The horror.

      It's almost like they want you to read a paper newspaper or something.

      I question virtually ALL the claims in the story.
      Its nonsense of the highest order, with no research to back it up. Do you see Google or Amazon publishing utilization rates of server farms?

      Do you see Amazon or Google or any cloud provider having problems paying the power bill?
      Did they not say that "Data Center providers are finding that they can't rack servers fast enough to provide for users' needs"?

      If the power bill is paid, what is the problem?

      Why isn't the harm done to the world's resources (and society in general) by publishing the New York Time evaluated?

      Nancy Nielsen, a spokeswoman for The New York Times Company, said only the limited supply of recycled paper constrained the company from using more of it. She said 6.5 percent of the newsprint used by the company contained recycled fibers.

      ...

      ''The inventory of waste newspaper is at an all-time record high,'' said J. Rodney Edwards, a spokesman for the American Paper Institute, a trade organization. ''Mills and paper dealers have in their warehouses over one million tons of newspapers, which represents a third of a year's production. There comes a point when the warehouse space will be completely filled.''

      you can grow button mushrooms on newspaper.
      Stamets has a strain that produces fruit a week after innoculation.

    16. Re:A sales pitch and a loaded gun by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      Again with the handwaving. These consequences don't matter to me; therefore I shall ignore them.

    17. Re:A sales pitch and a loaded gun by nobaloney · · Score: 1

      Genuine question: What are you talking about? I don't understand which product the NYT is claiming you should buy. I've read half of TFA and it just sounds like they're reporting facts. What are they selling you?

      Note the reference to instant updates. They're selling you the idea of being satisfied with a newsprint newspaper. Probably because they can't get anyone to look at their site. Probably because they charge you to look at it, so you find other sources, on the 'net, for which they're accusing you of driving demand to use more power.

  2. On a small-scale, virtualize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Using VMWare or other similar technologies, you can dramatically cut the amount of the energy you need to power your servers. You can even take advantage of on-demand servers, so that if you do suddenly become busy, it'll power up more hardware to handle the load. Great for optimizing around a 9-5 workday.

    1. Re:On a small-scale, virtualize by thoriumbr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or use a mainframe running lots of Linuxes... Can cut the power to 10% while delivering the same computing power. Mainframes have a very good power management this days.

    2. Re:On a small-scale, virtualize by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2

      Mod parent up.

      Mainframes still get a bad rap from those that remembered the early 90s and 80s. But the new IBM series can run 10,000 vms of redhat and unlike VMWare the vms can share ram with each other. The powerpc processors have something insane like 32 mbs of l3 cache per core. Also you can set the mainframe to open or close the number of VMs per load dynamically all by itself.

      Mainframes have alwaus been 15 yeats ahead of lintel servers. VMWare is doing things today mainframrs did in the 1990s.

    3. Re:On a small-scale, virtualize by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 0

      Benchmarks, or stfu.

    4. Re:On a small-scale, virtualize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that was the whole point of this article, you stupid twat.

      Why are you worried about benchmark scores on servers that typically only run computations 12 percent of the time?

      You people eat up artificial gimmicky numbers like nothing. It's amazing.

    5. Re:On a small-scale, virtualize by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      and you people eat up fast-talking sales pitches like nothing. Show me the numbers,

    6. Re:On a small-scale, virtualize by hawguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      that was the whole point of this article, you stupid twat.

      Why are you worried about benchmark scores on servers that typically only run computations 12 percent of the time?

      You people eat up artificial gimmicky numbers like nothing. It's amazing.

      I think the problem is that while you can run 10,000 linux instances on a single mainframe and maybe it can keep them all chugging along at 12% load (though it seems like it would take a rather sizable mainframe to be equivalent to 12% of 10,000 or 1200 standalone servers), but when your peak load comes and those linux servers that are nearly idle all night long are suddenly 80% utilized, can the mainframe keep all 10,000 instances running along at 80% utilization?

      And can it do it more cheaply than on VMWare and Intel? You'd need around 300 4 socket 8 core CPU Intel servers to handle 10,000 instances using up one core each of CPU power, figure around $10M for the cluster and 10 - 15 racks -- can you build the same mainframe for $10M in less space?

      I really don't know the answer.

    7. Re:On a small-scale, virtualize by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      I do not know. I do know the newer mainframes shut off cores and turn them on depending on load. This will save power while I imagine it would be difficult or impossible to do this with a server farm that easily.

      While the other poster wanted benchmarks I think this would be impossible to do on a reasonable budget. Mainframes have always been about I/O and load and transactions per hour. A datacenter is one hell of an I/O load network wise and this is something the mainframe would be better at.

      IBM mainframes are very expensive and that is for sure. However so is running a server farm where the electrical costs in a year easily outnumber the fixed costs of the hardware. I imagine less heat too for 2 or 3 mainframes vs 700 blades. But there is the issue of the mainframe being the central point of failure. Since this slashdot perhaps a mainframe guru could care to comment on this in terms of the new one that just came out next month?

    8. Re:On a small-scale, virtualize by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Here you go for the recent release last month. Here is more info on on getting linux to run.

      It may not be computationally faster at all compared to a datacenter, but I/O wise where transactions per hour as well as cooling and electrical costs can bring an advantage.

    9. Re:On a small-scale, virtualize by hawguy · · Score: 2

      I do not know. I do know the newer mainframes shut off cores and turn them on depending on load. This will save power while I imagine it would be difficult or impossible to do this with a server farm that easily.

      VMware will do the same thing, but at a server level -- DRS can migrate virtual servers off of lightly used physical servers and then power off the physical server. Bringing them back online will take a few minutes since it needs to wait for the physical server to reboot after it's powered back on.

    10. Re:On a small-scale, virtualize by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      It's not like Intel platforms are completely devoid of any power saving features. Processors have power-saving features, drives can be low-power versions (they do make enterprise versions of them) or solid state, and in a cloud environment you can shut entire servers off when they're not needed to handle the load.

    11. Re:On a small-scale, virtualize by rgbatduke · · Score: 1

      All? You mean there is more than one? And here I thought that it was just some individual's internet handle...

      --
      Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
    12. Re:On a small-scale, virtualize by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Saying a 32MB L3 cache PowerPC CPU is better than Intel CPUs is like saying Intel Xeons are better than ARM A7.. just look at the performance benchmarks!

      having 32MB of cache is trading off cost, power, and latency, for better data locality, which is almost completely useless for normal PC workloads.

    13. Re:On a small-scale, virtualize by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      just FYI VMWare can share RAM with the VMs - its often used to provision more Windows systems than could otherwise exist on the underlying hardware, as a lot of RAM is used just to provide the same pages of static OS code - no need to have a copy for each instance if it never changes.

      It's one big reason to use VMWare over HyperV, not that that stops anyone using MS stuff from using HyperV simple because it has that big M branding on it :(

    14. Re:On a small-scale, virtualize by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      What IBM is selling is a consultancy service--IBM will solve your problems for you, and IBM will charge through the nose for it. What the benchmarkers want is the data so that they can draw their own conclusions.

    15. Re:On a small-scale, virtualize by Compaqt · · Score: 1

      Does that work on a copy-on-write basis?

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    16. Re:On a small-scale, virtualize by jacobsm · · Score: 1

      I'm a mainframe professional, and basically they never fail. They're over engineered, no cheap off the shelf parts for them, because if you're a Fortune 500 company running your most profitable computing infrastructure on mainframes, where downtime measured in seconds can result in billions of dollars in losses or fines, the money spent is well worth it.

    17. Re:On a small-scale, virtualize by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      The original question was could they handle the load in a reasonable response time instead of a cloud? I can see for banks running things around the clock or the FAA traffic, but could it be a cheaper more efficient use than a rack of 400 servers in a huge warehouse?

    18. Re:On a small-scale, virtualize by jacobsm · · Score: 1

      In short, yes. IBM's virtualization environment, zVM has over 40 years of production use, with enhancements being added all the time. A zEC12 processor with 3TB of memory and 32 engines can efficiently manage several thousand zLinux virtual guests without breaking a sweat.

  3. Oh, not slanted at all. Nope. by bmo · · Score: 2

    >This is the price being paid to ensure everyone has instant access to every email they've ever received, or for their instant Facebook status update.

    Way to trivialize users' needs.

    Crikes.

    --
    BMO

  4. Corrected URL by Rick+Zeman · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have no idea how the URL got mangled when Timothy moved the anchor text to a different part of the article, but here's the correct link:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/technology/data-centers-waste-vast-amounts-of-energy-belying-industry-image.html?hpw&pagewanted=all

  5. So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Worst case, if we just include first world people, it's only about a 100W per person. Change a few lightbulbs, set down the heat, set the AC up by a degree, and you've reduced your power consumption by that amount. Of course, we need to talk about energy here, not just power, but hey.

    And since when does a tech site need to spell out "millions" and "billions"? Are we not able to grasp mega and giga?

    1. Re:So? by vlm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Worst case, if we just include first world people, it's only about a 100W per person

      Rough engineering estimate, a watt continuously is a buck per year.

      For commercial I'm completely unimpressed. That's like the depreciation on my desk and chair, or the dept "free" coffee budget for a month. A tiny fraction of the overhead lighting power, which is a tiny fraction of the HVAC power, which is a tiny fraction of my salary. In terms of environmental degradation, the gasoline I burn to commute is worse than my share of the corporate data center (based on a KWh being about a pound of coal, so 16 pounds of coal per week, and commute four times per week is about 4 gallons or about 24 pounds of gasoline)

      For residential I'm amazed. They need to make $100/yr off my mom who doesn't even have internet access just to pay the electrical bill. I donno if they can make $100 of me per year and I'm always on the net doing "stuff". One interesting comparison WRT advertising is "one million page views per year = one thousand dollars per month or about a penny per pageview". Donno how true that is anymore. But it would imply that just to pay the electric bill the average person would have to visit 27 web pages per day, every day, which seems pretty high across an entire nation.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    2. Re:So? by flaming+error · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Our energy supply is finite, and so our energy usage should be measured in units of energy, not dollars.

      Prices are not based on market forces or total costs, they are based on government policies.

      And our money supply itself is schizophrenic, as in disconnected from reality. It's value fluctuates by moods, it's continually debased by printing more, it's backed only fractionally, and then only by the good faith and credit of future taxes on today's kindergartners

      Measuring energy with dollars is like scoring sporting events by the applause of drunken fans.

    3. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's value fluctuates by moods,

      Sort of how people decide to use apostrophes.

    4. Re:So? by flaming+error · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I will not have my English judged by as infamously poor a writer as you, Anonymous Coward.

    5. Re:So? by Ken_g6 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The Earth receives 170PW of energy from the sun. The sun's total output is 380YW (trillion trillion Watts). How much of that we can capture and use is limited mainly by how much money we spend. So I would say that measuring energy with money makes perfect sense.

      --
      (T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
    6. Re:So? by flaming+error · · Score: 3, Funny

      The sun's total output is 380YW (trillion trillion Watts). How much of that we can capture and use is limited mainly by how much money we spend.

      Oh yeah. I sometimes forget that dollars trump Physics.

    7. Re:So? by evilviper · · Score: 2

      Our energy supply is finite, and so our energy usage should be measured in units of energy, not dollars.

      Of everything we have and do on this planet... Electricity is the closet thing we have to an infinite commodity. Until the entire surface of the earth is shaded, all wind ceases to blow, all rivers stop flowing, all tides stop, all mountains have been leveled, all thunderstorms cease to be generated, the mantle and core cools to surface temps, and we've burned every last calorie of biomass... until then, there's plenty of electricity to be had, and the only limitation is the cost of converting the energy into usable forms of electricity.

      If anything... Absolutely ANYTHING... can be properly measured in dollars, it's electricity.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    8. Re:So? by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "Our energy supply is finite,"

      If you mean "the sun", yes, but that will take a while. Some of our Currently More Convenient supplies are finite.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    9. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rough engineering estimate, a watt continuously is a buck per year.

      If you're American-centric. Elsewhere, it's easily double that.

    10. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We're not talking capturing 5%, the relevant range is much lower. Within that range, there aren't any physical limitations, just cost limitations. If the price of electricity was $0.50 per kilowatt-hour, we'd start covering the deserts with solar panels and extracting power from many other sources. Costs will rise asymptotically as one approaches a physical limit.

      OTOH, our knowledge of physics is incomplete, a profit incentive will encourage novel approaches that will likely exceed our theoretic maximums. The Malthusian predictions are a good, reoccurring example of this phenomenon. Insurmountable problems are generally circumvented if someone can make a profit by doing so. There are limits obviously (e.g. why we don't have smartphones that last weeks between charges), but it's rather arrogant to assume we know which limits are real and which are mere artifacts of incomplete theory.

    11. Re:So? by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 1

      You may want to read this before you start talking about how much energy we can use.

      We can't just produce an infinite amount of energy here on Earth; all that energy ends up as waste heat. A back-of-the-envelope calculation is hard, but say we actually used all the sunlight we receive. An ideal earth-sized blackbody would be 5.3 degrees C. A body that reflects 30% more light than that (as the Earth does) should theoretically be about -18 degrees. The average surface temperature on Earth is about 14 degrees, so we can chalk up about 33 degrees to the normal atmospheric greenhouse effect. Absorbing all energy from the sun would get rid of that 30% thing and (assuming linear effects) raise the average surface temperature to ~37 degrees.

      In the not-so-distant future we're going to have real problems with energy use, purely based on the waste heat. How much we can use of the sun's energy--or any other source--has nothing to do with dollars.

      --
      Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
    12. Re:So? by flaming+error · · Score: 1

      and the only limitation is the cost of converting the energy into usable forms of electricity.

      Ok. Try calculating the cost in joules instead of dollars. I think you'll find that once we have to expend 1 joule of energy to extract one joule of electricity, this virtually infinite commodity will be quite useless.

    13. Re:So? by snarkh · · Score: 1

      The sun produces more energy in a millisecond than our civilization has used since the beginning of time.
      There is no scarcity of resources per se, just the scarcity of our ingenuity to devise methods to capture it.

    14. Re:So? by vlm · · Score: 2

      Rough engineering estimate, a watt continuously is a buck per year.

      If you're American-centric. Elsewhere, it's easily double that.

      In most civilized areas of the US (not the coasts) its about half that. Especially purchased in bulk.

      That's why its called a Rough Engineering Estimate instead of a precisely calculated and verified data point.

      A bad rough engineering estimate would be a couple orders of magnitude off, like 1 cent or 100 bucks per Wy. That was what was so shocking about some Iraq/Afganistan stories from a purely EE standpoint... what happens to your systems analysis decisions when electricity costs the equivalent of 100 bucks per Wy or whatever it was.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    15. Re:So? by foniksonik · · Score: 1

      Not so. Energy time shifting and location shifting is just as important as generating it.

      Even if its a net loss - if you can move energy from where its lying dormant or being wasted to where it can be used - it can be worth it.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    16. Re:So? by flaming+error · · Score: 1

      I'm not talking about storing and transporting energy, I'm talking about extracting the energy you want to store or transport.

      Would you burn 100 joules to extract 100 joules? If you're in the energy production business, you'll soon be out of business.

    17. Re:So? by AntEater · · Score: 1

      I think you just did.

      --
      Alex, I'll take keybindings not used by Emacs for $400....
    18. Re:So? by evilviper · · Score: 1

      "Ok. Try calculating the cost in joules instead of dollars."

      How about YOU shut your idiocy-spewing mouth for a few seconds, and do it yourself? You seem to have some horrible form of tourettes, where you just can't shut up no matter how big of an idiot you make out of yourself. If you think there's some practical limit, then get off your ass and either do the math, or look up some sources who have already done it for you. The fact is, you're horribly, massively, terribly, insanely off-base, so just TRY to prove otherwise.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    19. Re:So? by flaming+error · · Score: 1

      The practical limit is when the energy harvested equals the energy spent to do the harvesting.

      For a hundred years it's been standard practice in the industry to abandon coal mines, oil wells, and gas deposits as they approach the stage of zero net energy return. In the future the industry may tolerate smaller net energy returns than in the past, but no industry can long tolerate zero or negative returns.

    20. Re:So? by justthinkit · · Score: 1
      You start off talking about "using all the sunlight we receive", and your following remarks may be appropriate for that (or not, see below). Then you conclude:
      .

      In the not-so-distant future we're going to have real problems with energy use, purely based on the waste heat. How much we can use of the sun's energy--or any other source--has nothing to do with dollars.

      Your remarks are not appropriate to, for example, hydro power. Water is going to tumble down mountains anyway. In doing so, heat is going to be given off. If we stick a generator in the way, less heat is given off at the source and more elsewhere. The only extra heat from hydrothermal is do to conversion & transportation losses.

      And in thinking further about your base premise, it sounds like B.S. to me for the same reason -- sunlight is going to hit the ground, with some bouncing back. Stick a solar cell in the way and you get pretty much the same thing -- maybe slight differences in absorption (like the conversion loss mentioned above) but hardly a huge difference in what is happening. Either a rock is heating up, liberating energy locally, or electricity is being created and used elsewhere...liberating energy there.

      --
      I come here for the love
    21. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Using energy is equivalent to creating heat is equivalent to increasing entropy. If you are not re-radiating energy to space, you are heating the Earth. It's pretty irrelevant what happens to the energy between absorption and re-emission: from the perspective of global temperature and thermodynamics, it's all heat.

      Your use of the phrase "liberating energy" suggests that you don't have a good grasp of what energy is, or conservation of energy. You might want to go here for a little light reading:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_budget

      Or just refrain from commenting because you have no idea what you're talking about.

    22. Re:So? by justthinkit · · Score: 1

      When a battery is used, energy is liberated. Energy that was IN the battery is now outside the battery. Liberation.

      --
      I come here for the love
  6. Well duh by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2
    That capacity is in reserve for bursts of activity, which are when something important happens. "Oh, sorry, can't service your request, we're at capacity now, come back later when you've totally lost interest or forgotten about this." Typical lack of insight by the NYT. They did what comes naturally, write the story about how something is bad and then find a lawyerly justification later. I mean, how would it be if they spent all that money on consultants and then failed to find that things are bad?

    Oh, and the little shitty comment "This is the price being paid to ensure everyone has instant access to every email they've ever received, or for their instant Facebook status update" by the submitter is totally uncalled for. That's not what it's about, but it's the reaction the NYT is looking for. Reload these comments at -1, you'll see the submitter's "First post!" comment there. What an idiot.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  7. so.. why not modern eniac? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not make a room sized server with a kajillion CPUs, host everyone in VMs, and then you can do all the power management in one place, turn off all non necessary CPUs, ramp up as needed.

    1. Re:so.. why not modern eniac? by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 2

      because that would mean absolutly every one would have everything not only in the cloud (a horible idea) but in one cloud security and stability nightamare. one bomb could kill the internet.
      but if they do build your suggestion they need to name it the multivac

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
  8. Automatic provisioning? by Compaqt · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wonder if the excess servers could be left off, and during rush periods, they could be turned on via IPMI?

    --
    I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    1. Re:Automatic provisioning? by rhsanborn · · Score: 1

      I was thinking the same thing. It seems companies like Facebook, Google, Apple, and Amazon could pioneer in these areas. I imagine the saved electricity cost would more than make up for the development efforts.

    2. Re:Automatic provisioning? by guruevi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's already how many datacenters do it. Still, that capacity takes about 2-10 minutes to come up to speed so you still need somewhat of a buffer. What they need is instant-on servers which the big guys are experimenting with but the problem is not Google or Netflix or Facebook, they run a pretty efficient operation, it's the rest of the business world who'd rather buy an IBM or HP honking piece of metal that converts 20% of it's power to heat before anything remotely useful has been done than experimenting with what they need and could do to improve on such designs.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    3. Re:Automatic provisioning? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "I wonder if the excess servers could be left off, and during rush periods, they could be turned on via IPMI?"

      Of course yes.

      But then, powering on a server via IPMI can take everything between 30 seconds to three minutes (discounting the case that any of its partitions need to be checked...).

      Now, imagine your mails are stored in a server that is now off. Will you want to wait for minutes to get to them?

    4. Re:Automatic provisioning? by Sorthum · · Score: 1

      Well... yes. My employer runs three racks of servers all in; we don't have the bandwidth / R&D budget to investigate better options. The big players (Google, Amazon, etc) need to pioneer research in this area, at which point it will (ideally) trickle down to the masses.

    5. Re:Automatic provisioning? by Foolomon · · Score: 1

      The problem is that without accurate measurements of power consumption to support capacity and availability management data centers aren't able to do this as effectively as they could.

      Companies such as nlyte and Modius do have solutions that address some of these issues. CA has a complete suite that address the entire DCIM space: ecoGovernance, which is a data aggregator / analyzer / reporter; ecoMeter, which provides accurate measurements of data center resources (including CRAC units, etc.) for the purposes of availability management; and ecoDesktop, a poorly named solution that ensures optimal usage of desktops and development / test servers by understanding usage patterns and using auto-shutdown / wake-on-LAN to shut down and startup machines when they are not being used to conserve electricity and ultimately save money.

      Disclaimer: I am a CA employee, but I'm speaking from the perspective of one who was in IT for 18 years. This stuff is quite good.

    6. Re:Automatic provisioning? by Vegemeister · · Score: 2

      2-10 minutes? A machine in S3 suspend should come up a hell of a lot faster than that. Ballpark 6 seconds.

    7. Re:Automatic provisioning? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's already how many datacenters do it. Still, that capacity takes about 2-10 minutes to come up to speed so you still need somewhat of a buffer. What they need is instant-on servers which the big guys are experimenting with but the problem is not Google or Netflix or Facebook, they run a pretty efficient operation, it's the rest of the business world who'd rather buy an IBM or HP honking piece of metal that converts 20% of it's power to heat before anything remotely useful has been done than experimenting with what they need and could do to improve on such designs.

      You Fing idiots!

      When you're global its always 5pm somewhere! I can see throttling down locales during off peak hours but if your still growing and serving the globe out of only a single handful of locales then you are always keeping certain locales active just to service the neighboring timezones.

      Has any one actually mentioned or read about the opencompute.org platform??? OK, it's not perfect but its evolving!

      The industry is responding... but it takes time!

  9. Gee thanks Slashdot! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not like we needed that power anyway.

  10. Don Boudreaux summed this up nicely by roystgnr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    in this letter and comment.

    The most ironic point: "Should we discover (as we undoubtedly would) that tens of thousands of copies of today's NYT were printed, delivered, and sold to subscribers who never read Glanz's report, do we conclude that the NYT needs a new and less-wasteful business model?"

    1. Re:Don Boudreaux summed this up nicely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a about as classic as you can get to a textbook example of knee jerk defensive reacation to external criticism. Even if we accept that the NYT is 100% hyprocritical, that doesn't change the truth or not of the issue they are pointing out, and so is mostly irrelevant to the bigger picture.

      The criticism (more like challenge) isn't personal. Be open to it, improve yourself by it, and profit by it. Or defensively lash out, keep your head in the sand, and lose out in the market to those with more open minds and less of an ego to protect than you.

  11. Running out of power by trancemission · · Score: 1

    I know of a couple of data centres in the UK which are essentially 'full' even though there is plenty of bandwidth and space. The penalty for using too much power has also increased and enforced more.

    To be fair they are in densely populated areas - both commercial and residential.

  12. not bad by ssam · · Score: 1

    so 30 Billion watts for something like 2 billion internet users. That's not to shoddy. Probably similar to the amount of power used at the client end (though that ought to be falling as people move from desktops to laptops and tablets). Global power usage is 15 Tera Watts, so data centres are about 0.2% of energy use.

    So, what would do more to save the world, made data centers twice as efficient, or make transport 5% more efficient. Unfortunately if the former that's easier.

    1. Re:not bad by Qwertie · · Score: 4, Informative

      Google's numbers are especially tame. 300 million watts (total) is far below one watt per user (gmail alone has at least 350 million accounts). Certainly if you use Google services on your 30-watt laptop, you use more power than Google uses to serve you. According to Google, "in the time it takes to do a Google search, your own personal computer will use more energy than Google uses to answer your query."

      Since Google offers almost all services for free, it has a strong incentive to minimize resources per user. I expect the paid services are the ones that use the bulk of the energy, but all data centers together are still a tiny fraction of total worldwide power usage.

    2. Re:not bad by Tastecicles · · Score: 3, Interesting

      that's how they're designed (from someone who's designed and executed datacentre solutions). I got out of the game not long before the AMD Opteron 4100 series came out (mid 2010), but at 5.83W per core they're a pretty damn smart solution even by current standards. You're talking about server power consumption of WAY LESS than .001W per request. Probably 5,000 requests are processed before the thing drinks a Watt. If my Atom-powered netbook could handle that kind of workload I would be well happy.

      There's nothing wrong with datacentres sitting idle, the "wrong" comes into it when people burn 500W on a PC with 19" monitor just to scroll down Facebook.

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    3. Re:not bad by haruchai · · Score: 1

      Are they playing Crysis WHILE reading Facebook? That's some serious multitasking.

      My desktop's power consumption, incl 23" monitor varies from 150 - 170W, depending on usage.
      In sleep mode, it drops to 15W and will hibernate after 10 mins, falling to 3W

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    4. Re:not bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why so many have moved go smartphones. Why use energy just to read an update on FB.

      My household has four smartphones and two laptops and a tablet. We use the smartphones all day, tablet at night and laptops when it's the best option.

      My power bill is $100 mo every month and down to $50 / mo in the winter (gas heating). That's for two adults and three kids.

  13. Sad sad article... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There are so many aspects left unexplored. Part of the problem is that power is also wasted on inefficient code. Bad abstractions and poor data structures. Reasons schedule pressure and untrained monkeys doing coding in PHP. It is too much focus on the ones running the data centers, part of the problem is who they are buying their software of.

  14. Not all DCs are Google or Facebook by tokencode · · Score: 3, Informative

    This article is simply trying to make news where there isn't any. Of course only a fraction of the power consumed goes into actual computations. For starters you need to account for cooling. Roughly speaking for every watt of server power load, you nede to account for 1 watt of cooling energy. This essentially halves the potential efficiency. In addition to that, you need to account for the amount of power it takes just to maintain state when you talking about a data center of that scale. Non-volitle memory requires and consumes power just to retain its current values. Unline Facebook and Google, most datacenters do not have 100% control over the hardware and software being run. Additionally datacenters often charge for power, space, etc and the client simply pays for what they use. In many instances efficiency is not for the datacenter to determine and one could argue that it may not even be in the datacenter's financial interest. Great strides have been made in scaling power consumption to fit computational demand but this is more of a hardware/software issue than a datacenter issue.

  15. Re:Oh, not slanted at all. Nope. by Technician · · Score: 2

    This is the reason there is a race for high performance chips that draw little power. Your tablet may sip power and take a few seconds to render a Facebook page, but the server sending milliions of pages needs to sip little power too. Whoever makes the best server chips wins.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  16. google and facebook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    spying isn't wasting power

  17. Brilliant definition of "server" FTFA . . . by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Funny

    A server is a sort of bulked-up desktop computer, minus a screen and keyboard, that contains chips to process data.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:Brilliant definition of "server" FTFA . . . by Pieroxy · · Score: 2

      A server is a sort of bulked-up desktop computer, minus a screen and keyboard, that contains chips to process data.

      Does it means servers have mice?

    2. Re:Brilliant definition of "server" FTFA . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. The only rodents connected to servers are hamsters. They generate the power that's being wasted...

  18. So much Wastage Today by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    first helium balloons, now data centers. its nice that slashdot is shaming humans today on their wasteful energy practices.

    i had decided that i was going to just shoot myself to eliminate my wasteful means, but i guess that would create "waste" as well. people would report the smell, the police would then arrive, news reports, etc.

    maybe ill pre-dig a grave and bury myself alive. that should do the trick.

    1. Re:So much Wastage Today by farkus888 · · Score: 1

      I've been working out this exact solution. The problem so far is the amount of energy I've burned through in these various data centers while searching for the most efficient way to dig the hole.

      --
      thats right, I rarely use capitals. deal with it. but don't mistake my laziness for stupidity
  19. See older article by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    How much power is being wasted by sites that do not honor "do not track"?

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  20. Lovely. by 7-Vodka · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is lovely. Let's worry about problems that don't exist, as if we don't have enough catastrophes to worry about.

    Power is money. As long as there is a somewhat unhampered economy in the locus of data centers (and there is), then every entrepreneur will attempt to economize power usage. You don't have to worry about it because the entrepreneurs that use power efficiently will eat the lunch of those that do not, ceteris paribus (all other things equal).

    Ipso facto this problem will solve itself. Case closed.

    In fact, now that I speculate on the possible reasons for publicity like this to be drummed up, it is to campaign for government regulations that will instruct entrepreneurs how they 'must' handle such a problem. Unfortunately nobody can write such regulations because they cannot foresee every circumstance and possibility, much less predict the future. Nobody on this earth can even tell a single other person what ideal type and amount of preparation is for power efficiency considerations. This is why we have economic calculation.

    If such regulations are enacted, ipso facto they will cause the problem itself.

    --

    Liberty.

    1. Re:Lovely. by Albanach · · Score: 2

      Power is money. As long as there is a somewhat unhampered economy in the locus of data centers (and there is), then every entrepreneur will attempt to economize power usage.

      You conveniently ignore that power is also pollution. Gas, coal and oil pose current threats while nuclear power has huge costs associated with future care of spent radioactive materials. Western countries have been very slow to price any of these costs into the electricity supply cost.

      As a result, your hypothesis that the market will take care of it is flawed. The price that the data center owner is faced with is incomplete. Therefore their desire to save costs is less than it should be in a properly functioning market.

      While you believe that government regulation would result in an inevitable doomsday, it is in fact necessary where an industry - in this case the electricity generating industry - has costs outside their identifiable production costs. It's not an infringement on 'Liberty.' to make sure an industry and its customers are absorbing all the costs associated with their enterprise.

    2. Re:Lovely. by maxwell+demon · · Score: 2

      Just steer the discussion to another point of wasted energy. Do you have an idea how much energy it costs to decrypt DRMed media? I'm sure if you add up the extra power needed for all those DRMed media every time they are used, I'm sure you'd get a very impressive number, too.

      Save the environment! Fight DRM! :-)

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    3. Re:Lovely. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, that's a pretty neat idea! I like the concept of a market responding to price, supply, and demand - along with regulations. Now, if only we had some way people could hear about problems that needed sensible regulation. Maybe we could tell them stories, or they could read something written on a paper to learn about it. Then when they know a problem exists, they could tell their leaders to work on regulation to ensure that the problem was addressed.

      Maybe the stuff they read could be shared online, too?

    4. Re:Lovely. by bcrowell · · Score: 1

      Power is money. As long as there is a somewhat unhampered economy in the locus of data centers (and there is), then every entrepreneur will attempt to economize power usage. You don't have to worry about it because the entrepreneurs that use power efficiently will eat the lunch of those that do not, ceteris paribus (all other things equal).

      This would work fine except for all the externalities, which include global warming, people breathing particulates emitted by diesel backup generators, and a ruinous series of wars that the US has fought in the Middle East. All of these amount to government subsidies for energy consumption.

      From your sig, it looks like you're a libertarian. Me too, woo hoo. Hope you're voting for Gary Johnson, who I think is a better candidate than Ron Paul anyway.

      But just because we're libertarians, that doesn't mean we have to accept it when other people pump pollution into our lungs or create conditions such that malaria can invade the latitudes where we live. We certainly wouldn't accept it if other people dumped liquid pollution on our lawns, or smeared anthrax on our doorknobs.

      And just because we're libertarians, that doesn't mean we have to imagine we're living in some fairyland where markets are perfectly efficient. I would be happy if I could buy webhosting that was energy-efficient and yet highly reliable, the equivalent of a Honda Fit. In a perfectly efficient market, that webhosting would be available, and it would be cheaper than webhosting that was energy-inefficient and highly reliable, the equivalent of a Porsche 911. In reality, you can't buy the webhosting equivalent of a Porsche 911. The reason is partly the distortion in the energy market brought about by government and partly just the reality that markets aren't perfectly efficient.

    5. Re:Lovely. by bcrowell · · Score: 1

      Oops, meant to say this: " In reality, you can't buy the webhosting equivalent of a Honda fit."

    6. Re:Lovely. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sorry, this is an idealistic fantasy. In the absence of regulation, more efficient products will emerge when manufacturers believe that it is sufficiently profitable to produce them. Producing more efficient products does not guarantee more profit, and so your claim that "every entrepreneur will attempt to economize power usage" is false.

      Also, why do people who favor oversimplified views of the world so often complicate their writings with ostentatious phrases like "ipso facto" and "ceteris paribus"?

    7. Re:Lovely. by Qzukk · · Score: 2

      That's ok, in my experience with just about all forms of shared hosting, you can't get a Porsche either, you just end up with the equivalent of a Yugo.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    8. Re:Lovely. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the big picture data centres aren't the biggest energy hogs or wasters.

      As for the price being incomplete, go ahead get the power companies to charge more for electricity but across the board - to everyone.

      You'd be hurting more than Facebook and Google.

      If you say it doesn't work that way then the whole story and your points are not important or relevant.

    9. Re:Lovely. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd accuse you of over-use of latin phrases, but absentem laedit cum ebrio qui litigat, and de gustibus non est disputandum.

      p.s. Veni, vidi, vici; quod erat demonstrandum.

  21. "town" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Lovely wriggle phrase: "a medium-size town".

    Most people will substitute "city" or "urban" as they read, from the distinction "town and country". In some places 'city' and 'town' are synonymous, in others a 'town' is too small to be called a city, what other first-world countries would call a 'village'.

    Well, it's the NYTimes, so let's try a NY definition.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_divisions_of_New_York#Town
    " The town of Hempstead (Nassau County) has about 756,000 people (2000 census), making it more populous than any city in the state except New York City. Red House (Cattaraugus County), the least populous, has 38 permanent residents (2000 census)."

    It's a hideously unspecific term for that hides more than it reveals, perfect for yellow journalism. And we're supposed to take /anything/ from this NYT article seriously?

    1. Re:"town" by Glendale2x · · Score: 1

      How many Libraries of Congress is that?

      --
      this is my sig
  22. Re:First post? by rtfa-troll · · Score: 3, Funny

    First post? ...on my own submission? LOL.

    No no; you see you made the mistake of shutting down your server between the post and when it was put up by slashdot to save energy. You are just too slow to achieve internet time like Google or Facebook and will never make it in the market. Let this be a lesson.

    --
    =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
  23. What's the alternative? by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Take the case of me and Google. My share of their power is about 1W electric (that's usually about 3w thermal).

    However, I estimate that their maps and local business info features alone easily save me at least a couple of hundred miles per year of driving. That would be about 10 gallons of gasoline per year, which is 38 W thermal that I'm not burning thanks to the info they're providing. Google provides at least a 10 to 1 payback in energy savings just for this one case.

  24. Meaningless numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    These are completely meaningless numbers. What matters is power per user compared to the power per user spent by alternative methods or other data centers. If the data center is using one tenth the power for running my database that I would by running my own server, then the data center is a boon energy-use-wise - even if the data center could theoretically decrease their power usage even further.

    In any case identifying wasteful use of energy in this way is entirely the wrong way to go about it - does the NYT plan on identifying and writing about every little way someone somewhere could decrease energy usage? If the price of energy isn't enough incentive for data centers to use less energy, then either the price of energy is too low or your notion of the value of energy is inflated or you just need to wait a bit while the energy inefficient data centers go out of business. In the first case, the solution is to include the externalities of energy usage into the price of energy through taxes (rather than the current subsidies). In the second case, well, you need to fix your views. In neither case is it relevant how data center operators choose to do their business - that is merely a symptom of the underlying forces.

    This is why altruistic energy saving is pointless - if your decrease in consumption does not result in a decrease in dirty energy production, then you have done precisely nothing to help the environment. All you have done is decrease the price of energy by enough so that someone else is willing to use the energy that you didn't use at that price. Conservation does not save energy, it only saves you money and decreases the price of energy for other people. The latter point might actually be a pretty nice thing to do - people in the third world certainly have a pressing need for cheaper energy. It just doesn't help the environment.

    For conservation to make any difference to net energy use you need to conserve so much that oil can be shooting out of the ground yet no one wants it because they don't have any use for more energy. Never going to happen! The only solutions are to increase the price of energy to the point where people won't want to use that oil shooting out of the ground because of the tax expense (cap and trade does this, banning use of oil does too) or to come up with another way of producing energy that isn't dirty and is cheaper than oil. The first solution isn't going to make you any friends as a politician and it only works if almost everyone in the world is in on it (never going to happen!). The second solution is the only hope if you want to avoid more CO2 release. Though I guess at the point that we are all drowning in rising oceans perhaps there will be enough will to really make the first solution work. I doubt it, though - a third alternative is geoengineering, which will be necessary anyway at that point. Feel like rolling those dice?

  25. I'm part of the problem. by bcrowell · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm part of the problem. Wish I wasn't, but I don't seem to have any choice.

    I run a small web site, and if it goes down, there are various consequences in my personal and professional life that can be extremely annoying and embarrassing. To stay sane, I need the site to have good uptime. Over the years, this has caused me to gradually migrate to more and more expensive webhosting, now ~$100/mo.

    The average load on my dedicated server is extremely low, so it's basically like one of the extremely wasteful boxes described in TFA. My site is basically I/O-intensive: I serve big PDF files. In terms of CPU, I'm sure the site would run fine on a low-end ARM, or as one of a dozen sites running off of the same Celeron chip. So by comparison with either of those hypothetical, energy-efficient setups, virtually all of the electrical power is being wasted. I'm a small fry, but there are millions of sites like mine, so I'm sure it adds up. (It would be interesting to know how much of total server-center power consumption comes from the "long tails" of the distribution such as Google and Facebook, and what percentage from cottage industries like me.)

    There are basically two problems. (1) Nobody will sell me high-reliability webhosting on low-end hardware. The only way to get energy-efficient hardware is to get cheap webhosting. I've tried cheap webhosting. Cheap webhosts have low reliability and nonexistent customer service. (2) Sometimes you get spikes in demand, and you want some excess capacity to be able to handle it without crashing the server. Maybe you get slashdotted. Actually, in my case one thing that has been a problem is that some people apparently run IE plugins that are supposed to accelerate large downloads, by opening multiple connections with the server. When these people hit my server and download a large PDF, the effect is very much like a DOS attack. My logs show one IP address using 300 Mb of throughput to download a 3 Mb PDF. I've written scripts that lock these bozos out ASAP, but on a low-end machine, these events would bring my server to its knees instantly.

    1. Re:I'm part of the problem. by rvw · · Score: 1

      There are basically two problems. (1) Nobody will sell me high-reliability webhosting on low-end hardware. The only way to get energy-efficient hardware is to get cheap webhosting. I've tried cheap webhosting. Cheap webhosts have low reliability and nonexistent customer service. (2) Sometimes you get spikes in demand, and you want some excess capacity to be able to handle it without crashing the server. Maybe you get slashdotted. Actually, in my case one thing that has been a problem is that some people apparently run IE plugins that are supposed to accelerate large downloads, by opening multiple connections with the server. When these people hit my server and download a large PDF, the effect is very much like a DOS attack. My logs show one IP address using 300 Mb of throughput to download a 3 Mb PDF. I've written scripts that lock these bozos out ASAP, but on a low-end machine, these events would bring my server to its knees instantly.

      Have you taken a look at Amazon EC2, S3, and their other services? Post a question on their forums or on stackexchange and describe your situation, and I bet they can give you a solution that is cheaper and more reliable.

    2. Re:I'm part of the problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This sounds a lot like the problem BitTorrent was invented to solve. It has the neat property that the required bandwidth does is approximately constant regardless of the number of concurrent downloads. If only browsers made it easier to seamlessly download small files using bittorrent - Opera implemented this,. but it didn't catch on.

      Some BitTorrent-like protocol (if possible modified for lower latency) would also be nice for solving the problem that hosting a site gets more expensive as the site gets more popular. Since this is one of the most common reasons for advertisements on the WWW, it could also lead the way to a more advertisement-free web. But the current protocol is not suited for serving HTML, so in your case it would only be used for the pdf files.

    3. Re:I'm part of the problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When these people hit my server and download a large PDF, the effect is very much like a DOS attack.

      I have three words for you:

      "Content Delivery Network"

    4. Re:I'm part of the problem. by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      Get two geographically diverse cheap hosts rather than a single expensive host, and be one of dozens or more VMs on their hardware. Round robin on your DNS. Add more hosts as needed. If there is transactional information needed then it can get harder.

  26. How you can help: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Figure out how to 1) make computers boot faster and 2) reliably support suspend/sleep/etc. Using free software, of course, and please don't restrict yourself to linux.

    1. Re:How you can help: by tepples · · Score: 1

      Using free software, of course, and please don't restrict yourself to linux.

      Which *BSD are you thinking of in this case?

    2. Re:How you can help: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any of them. All of them. Try opensolaris. And minix too. For starters. Maybe haiku or menuetos or riscos can be turned into something usable as a server. I'm sure there's work to be done in the open bios replacements too. More hardware support, network booting, WOL enhancements, you name it.

      We need diversity, certainly more than we need the bloat that the big few are slowly but steadily acquiring. So let's not all do the same thing to the same code base. Look around a little.

  27. Boot times suck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most servers have crap boot times, fix this plx.

    1. Re:Boot times suck by Bengie · · Score: 1

      That's why you use VMs and never turn the machines off. Just live migrate the server around.

    2. Re:Boot times suck by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      That's why you use VMs and never turn the machines off. Just live migrate the server around.

      No, that's why you run your services on a shared pool of servers with containers separating unrelated services. VMs are for Windows.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    3. Re:Boot times suck by dirtyhippie · · Score: 1

      I like orangutans!!!! (I don't remember what this thread is about either)

  28. Wave of the future, man! by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

    Tablets are (apparently) ousting desktop PCs and laptops as consumer devices. These are by necessity low-consumption, hence low-capacity devices (as in, they can barely play an HD video without screeching to a bloody halt), they're certainly not going to be doing any what an 80's admin would have considered big iron work. This would be left to... well, big iron. The infrastructure is already there; thin clients, virtualisation on multicore beasts that can chew through 4k CGI rendition in practically real time, cloud storage and fast broadband. Hey, did I mention the word "theoretically"?

    There's your justification. Thirty Gigawatts is what 66 million average desktop computers (at 450W a pop, not including displays) consume. Think about what 66 million netbooks, or tablets, consume?

    Asus EeePC (Atom): 40W (according to the wallwart I've got plugged into the side of mine) each. 2.64GW.
    iPad: from what I've read, 10W a piece - and the screen uses 6 of that. 660MW.

    Sod it, add them together. That's 132 million computers, accessing a virtualisation service for a total power cost of change from 33.5GW.
    That's a might less than 132 million desktop machines doing their own thing yet costing 59.4GW *on their own* - not including the aforementioned server infrastructure. Why aren't we doing this?? According to Gartner the number of personal computers in use around the world hit one billion way back in 2008. This is slightly more than significant.

    Commence to shootdown citing personal security concerns in 5... 4... 3... 2...

    --
    Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    1. Re:Wave of the future, man! by Bengie · · Score: 1

      My i7-920 quad core with an ATI6950 doesn't break 300watts while playing video games. Closer to 100watts idle. Not sure where you get 450watts short of a dual-GPU OC'd CPU.
      Intel's Haswell CPU is claiming to use 1/20th the platform(CPU+Motherboard) power while idle than Ivy Bridge and maintaining the same performance.

    2. Re:Wave of the future, man! by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      I'm going by what my high-draw 5 year old factory clocked 2.8 P4 draws with its hungry heifer of a GeForce 8600GTS. 125W for the CPU, 90W for the GPU, 170 for the mainboard & RAM, 25 for the hard drive, 30 for the DVDRW, 3 fans at 5 each. It was built as a budget gaming rig, I still use it to play fairly recent (read: less than 2 years old) games.

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
  29. Watch this ad and we'll add capacity by tepples · · Score: 1

    "Oh, sorry, can't service your request, we're at capacity now, come back later when you've totally lost interest or forgotten about this."

    How about this: "We've gone green, and we keep some of our servers turned off. We'll have the page ready for you once you're done watching this interstitial ad."

  30. What's more efficient than PHP? by tepples · · Score: 1

    Part of the problem is that power is also wasted on inefficient code. [...] Reasons schedule pressure and untrained monkeys doing coding in PHP.

    At work we have a reasonably trained monkey coding in PHP. What language would you recommend that is more efficient for a web application, balancing programmer efficiency with runtime efficiency?

    1. Re:What's more efficient than PHP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you have a reasonably trained monkey in PHP then a proper setup can help with efficiency. Byte code caching, php-fpm and a reasonable database backend that allow for procedures could save energy. It is not the language in itself that is the problem it is the untrained part. But for some sites a native code like C++ or Google Go could be worth it and loose part of the programmer efficiency. But that trade off is mostly like saving servers i.e. having five servers instead of ten.

    2. Re:What's more efficient than PHP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just about any of them. Php is pretty awful, performance-wise. I switched to JSP and got a 50% reduction in CPU usage, along with a rather nice 50ms off my initial page load latency. C# would also be reasonable. Both of these environments are just as productive, if not more so.

    3. Re:What's more efficient than PHP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Php is pretty awful, performance-wise

      Having used it for a decade, I think PHP is all around bad, but there is one thing that it does that none of the other players even bother trying to do: encourage developers to use stateless design. You know, the way the HTTP protocol was designed to work before we had all these sessions and hibernate and everything else that makes it when I push back in my browser I go somewhere other than where I came from, or makes it impossible to link to trademark pages on the USPTO website because it's all in cache for about 5 minutes before the server decides someone else's state is more important than it is for me to share my search results.

      The RESTful design people are working on it, too bad about HTML's lack of support for it and having to kludge your way through every request to cope.

    4. Re:What's more efficient than PHP? by tepples · · Score: 1

      I switched to JSP and got a 50% reduction in CPU usage, along with a rather nice 50ms off my initial page load latency. C# would also be reasonable.

      Wouldn't that require upgrading to a more expensive hosting plan that supports Java or C#? Wasting money on licenses is as bad as if not worse than wasting money on power. Or what am I missing?

    5. Re:What's more efficient than PHP? by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't that require upgrading to a more expensive hosting plan that supports Java or C#? Wasting money on licenses is as bad as if not worse than wasting money on power. Or what am I missing?

      You're missing the part that Java is free and that there is also an open source version. What licenses are you talking about?

    6. Re:What's more efficient than PHP? by tepples · · Score: 1

      You're missing the part that Java is free and that there is also an open source version. What licenses are you talking about?

      The license for the panel software that the hosting company installs for Java customers, for one thing. It appears from my limited research that the requirement for Java support constrains the choice of hosting provider.

    7. Re:What's more efficient than PHP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PHP is pretty awful just because it crazy type unstrict. It will try to make any code compile and do something. What it does, who knows. A minor typo in PHP and you won't get so much as a warning, just odd problems.

    8. Re:What's more efficient than PHP? by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      nothing wrong with PHP, and if you have a small scale system, then there's little to no gain from rewriting it. However....

      if you have a lot of systems then a rewrite in the most efficient system you can get will benefit you a lot. This is why Microsoft has said that 88% of their datacentre costs is in hardware and power, and is also the reason why they're migrating back to native C++ code! (yep, bye .NET, don't let the door hit your bloated ass on the way out).

      I always said if you want programmer productivity then a script language, like PHP, is the way to go, but if you want performance you need to go a lot more C/C++. Java and C# are compromises that offer you neither enough performance or productivity.

      So for you, if you're running multiple servers with your PHP code, then there could be a benefit for you to rewrite it in C/C++ as you'll be able to serve the same number of users using fewer servers. (worked for Facebook after all), but unless you're running 3+ servers, there's not going to be much point in it for you.

    9. Re:What's more efficient than PHP? by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      I've run several Java-based websites onto several hosting companies (both dedicated servers and shared hosting). I've never had to pay for any "panel software". All I ever needed was an SSH access.

    10. Re:What's more efficient than PHP? by Compaqt · · Score: 1

      He saying you need to write your website in C.

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
  31. Lovely. More free market crap. by ukemike · · Score: 1

    As long as there is a somewhat unhampered economy in the locus of data centers (and there is), then every entrepreneur will attempt to economize power usage.

    There is not an "unhampered" energy economy. The energy economy is massively subsidized in several ways. The US government has spent trillions in wars and foreign aid to secure energy supplying areas. Our natural gas glut right now is going to be paid for by future generations in the form of devastating environmental damage, like damage to our water tables. Our continued use of fossil fuels in general will also be paid for mostly by future generations in the form of the costs of global climate change. If the full cost of energy was represented in the price of electricity then data centers would behave very differently.

    All things are interconnected. You claim that data centers are a market that behaves rationally, but data center's main feedstock comes from a market that is distorted to the point where it is threatening the continuation of our civilization.

    --
    -- QED
  32. Which is what cloud computing is about by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    I know the term is horribly abused on a regular basis, but that's the whole point of cloud computing. It looks like a horrible idea because today it usually is, but eventually we'll get used to it and figure out how to make it work most of the time and then we can have a lot less idle resources as they can just be turned off. Even if it doesn't get you entirely out of colocated resources, if it can decrease the amount of hardware you have to have lying around doing nothing most of the time there's a place for it.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  33. Breaking News: Slashdotters Miss the Point Again! by Press2ToContinue · · Score: 0

    Slashdotters are right - it must be ok to waste power because: 1) It's less than other power we are consuming (or wasting?) 2) it's in the name of progress 3) It's not us who are wasting it This is the same thinking that says that if you have a million dollars, it's ok to just thow $100k in the garbage can. Thank G*d slash-dotters don't run the world. Stick to writing code and keep your opinions out of saving the planet, because there wouldn't be one for you to code in if we listened too closely to your my-math=your-reality reasoning.

    --
    Sent from my ENIAC
  34. Virtualization by notdotcom.com · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is one major reason that companies (even very large companies with "money to spare") are moving towards virtualization with incredible speed.

    I'm not going to go digging for numbers right now, but the statistics show that something like 100 percent of Fortune 100 companies use virtualization, and perhaps 85-90% of Fortune 500 companies.

    The larger virtualization solutions will actually take the servers that are idle, migrate them to another host machine, and power down/suspend the "extra" machine(s) that was/were being used during their core business hours.

    Virtualization also allows for spikes in cpu/network, and then can take that power back when everyone goes home (a print server, an intranet web server, a domain controller, etc). So, physical machines actually DO get turned off when they aren't being taxed, and with more and more "software defined networking" the interconnects between systems can be scaled and moved also.

    Now, I don't know how the big players are using this (e.g. Amazon, VMware, Rackspace, Google). I can't see inside their datacenters, but one would think that something like AWS would have a huge stake in saving power by turning off idle instances and moving VMs. Not only for the power savings from the server directly, but for the (approx) 30-40 percent more energy that it takes to cool the physical machines.

    It's also worth noting that larger companies are putting their datacenters in areas with plentiful (cheap) power. Places like Washington state, with hydroelectric power and a cooler average ambient temperature, allow for a huge savings on power right off the bat. Add things like dynamic scaling of server and network hardware, lights-out datacenters, and better designed cooling systems (look at Microsoft's ideas), and there is a huge power savings across the board.

    How much energy does the NYT use to print paper copies of the newspaper, distribute and deliver them, harvest the trees and process the paper? Now compare that with the energy that the online NYT uses. Which allows for more people to view the publication for less energy? I'm positive that it is the electronic version.

     

    --
    Grandpa: My Homer is not a communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a communist, but he is not a porn star.
    1. Re:Virtualization by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      This is one major reason that companies (even very large companies with "money to spare") are moving towards virtualization with incredible speed.

      No, they move to virtualization because they think, they run their services on Windows, and because their admins read VMWare ads in glossy magazines.

      There are non-virtualization solutions such as VServer, OpenVZ and LXC (and infrastructure based on those), not to mention traditional multiple services on a physical host. And any non-crappy server-side application can share load between multiple servers.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    2. Re:Virtualization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is 100% of fortune 100 companies use VMware. 98% of fortune 500 companies use VMware. 96% of fortune 1000 companies. Stats according to there site. http://www.vmware.com/company/customers/

    3. Re:Virtualization by Compaqt · · Score: 1

      It's not just because they read something in a magazine. It's a matter of security in depth, i.e., if someone is able to penetrate one application that shouldn't mean they get access to the entire machine.

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    4. Re:Virtualization by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      It's a matter of security in depth, i.e., if someone is able to penetrate one application that shouldn't mean they get access to the entire machine.

      Or exploit one of the numerous vulnerabilities in hypervisors, VM management, or pseudo-networking between VMs. Like any additional software, virtualization reduces security.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  35. Welcome to the Peak/Average conundrum by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is the same "problem" that faces airline companies, taxi drivers, power companies, cell network operators. Consumers pay for these services by usage and so total revenue is proportional to average use but the costs are heavily skewed towards capital costs and so are proportional to the peak load that you can service. In that case, there's a fundamental tradeoff -- either we have to degrade service when demand hits the 95th percentile (just as an example) or we have to figure out a way to pay for the extra capital investment that's not needed 95% of the time.

    There's a few alternatives you can do:

    (1) Overprovision and soak it up into the price structure for all consumers. This is what most power companies do -- they build enough power generating capacity for peak load and then charge a bit more per KWH to make up for the increased outlay.

    (2) Overprovision and charge extra at peak. This is the airline solution -- they always have service available but under contention the last few seats are exorbitantly expensive. Essentially those that need peak service are paying to leave a few seats open all the time in case they need them.

    (3) Don't overprovision: this is the taxi solution. This means that service degrades significantly under peak demand -- anyone trying to get a cab home on a Saturday night in a major city has experienced this. Those that do get a cab pay the usual fare, everyone else waits around a while. This is also the solution that California has routinely deployed for their inability to provide peak power during heat spells -- same price for everyone but rolling blackouts for the unlucky few.

    That's it -- there aren't any clean answers when you are making compromises between peak availability and average efficiency. You've either got to pay for the extra capacity when you don't need it or else you have to suffer when you don't have the capacity when you do need it.

    1. Re:Welcome to the Peak/Average conundrum by downhole · · Score: 1

      Good summary.

      One other possibility, at least for servers and datacenters, is to move more of it to enormous virtualized systems such as ECC. The idea being that if you hosted a huge number of diverse websites on what is essentially one system, then they can all share capacity. Any individual site might get slammed at any time, but it's very unlikely that they'll all be slammed at the same time, so each site can have what is for it's own purposes an insane level of extra capacity, but the whole system may have very minimal overprovisioning compared to its total load.

      --
      I don't reply to ACs
  36. The also waste power on spam filtering by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

    Think of how many data centers have dedicated appliances for filtering spam. If they want to save on power they should take some actual action against spam instead of just being reactionary.

    The data centers (and to a larger extent ISPs) remind us that spam is an economic problem. It is costing everyone money every day, so that a handful of spammers can make a lot of money pushing fake pills, fake watches, etc. If the data centers seriously want to reduce wasted power they should instead invest some human time and effort into making it more difficult for the spammers to make money. Do that, and everyone wins. Keep filtering spam, and nobody wins.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:The also waste power on spam filtering by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

      What kind of solutions do you propose? And how many of those would require extra human effort -- with lighted offices (servers don't need lighting); desktop or laptop PCs that probably use a lot more power than those servers; transportation energy (commute to work); construction costs of their workspace (costs more to house and comfort a human than a server rack) and just the cost of paying the employee?

      There's a reason we're just filtering spam -- that's the cheapest effective option.

    2. Re:The also waste power on spam filtering by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

      What kind of solutions do you propose?

      I believe I outlined the correct solution in my previous message, but I can be more verbose if you prefer. It all comes down to preventing the spammers from getting paid. It has been shown before that the majority of the vendors who pay spammers have their own transactions processed through a very short list of credit card processing agencies. Either shut them down or get them to clean up their acts and the spammers revenue streams dry up rapidly.

      Combine that with actually taking action against registrars who knowingly register domains to spammers and you'll change the game rapidly. The spammers still want the classic TLDs for their domains at some point along the way, and will for a while yet.

      And how many of those would require extra human effort -- with lighted offices (servers don't need lighting); desktop or laptop PCs that probably use a lot more power than those servers; transportation energy (commute to work); construction costs of their workspace (costs more to house and comfort a human than a server rack) and just the cost of paying the employee?

      It could be done with just a handful of employees, telecommuting if they'd like. The investment is minimal. The human networking is the more lengthy part, but requires minimal expenditure of capital.

      There's a reason we're just filtering spam -- that's the cheapest effective option.

      Don't fool yourself. Filtering is not effective. It is a continual waste of time, power, and other resources. It only encourages the spammers to get more creative in their strategies to get around filters.

      You don't win a war by getting bigger guns. You win a war by convincing your opponent that they are better off not fighting the war. The filters only encourage bigger guns.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    3. Re:The also waste power on spam filtering by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

      What kind of solutions do you propose?

      I believe I outlined the correct solution in my previous message, but I can be more verbose if you prefer. It all comes down to preventing the spammers from getting paid. It has been shown before that the majority of the vendors who pay spammers have their own transactions processed through a very short list of credit card processing agencies. Either shut them down or get them to clean up their acts and the spammers revenue streams dry up rapidly.

      Combine that with actually taking action against registrars who knowingly register domains to spammers and you'll change the game rapidly. The spammers still want the classic TLDs for their domains at some point along the way, and will for a while yet.

      What would stop the spammers from just switching to different processing agencies or new registrars? Not a rhetorical question -- I'm legitimately curious if there's a way to prevent this. Or if it's difficult enough to set up a payment processor or registrar that playing whac-a-mole for long enough might be enough? I get the feeling it would be harder to stop some rogue Nigerian processors/registrars than it would be to set them up, but I could be wrong there.

      There's a reason we're just filtering spam -- that's the cheapest effective option.

      Don't fool yourself. Filtering is not effective. It is a continual waste of time, power, and other resources. It only encourages the spammers to get more creative in their strategies to get around filters.

      You don't win a war by getting bigger guns. You win a war by convincing your opponent that they are better off not fighting the war. The filters only encourage bigger guns.

      ...and unfortunately part of the way you convince your opponent that they're better off not fighting the war is by getting bigger guns than they have and possibly beating them (or anyone else who challenges you) into submission. Now, you can do this two ways -- you can build up your own arsenal to the point that they obviously won't stand a chance (ex: the USA's stockpiles of nuclear weapons and such) -- which is analogous to improving filtering in the hopes that eventually spam will become unprofitable. Or you can sabotage/destroy their capacity to defend themselves -- analogous to the approach you propose.

    4. Re:The also waste power on spam filtering by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

      What would stop the spammers from just switching to different processing agencies or new registrars?

      There isn't much to stop them from switching, however the number of available companies for both services is limited and controlled by the respective industries. Furthermore doing business with known spammers comes with definite risk that each company needs to evaluate on their own. In both cases the companies could lose their ability to do their job as a result of the business they do with spammers, which obviously is not good for their long-term business strategies in most cases.

      Hence, each time they switch, the number of places they can switch to is limited*.

      Or if it's difficult enough to set up a payment processor or registrar that playing whac-a-mole for long enough might be enough?

      That is one of the main things that play in favor of my proposal. For example, if you want to buy a .com domain, you have to buy it from an approved registrar - not just anyone can sell it to you. Similarly, if you want to accept VISA / MC / AmEx / Discover / etc for payment, you need to select a processing house to handle your transactions (and of course they get a cut). There are a limited number of processors for that, too (generally set by the card itself).

      *You may be aware that recently ICANN voted to start selling global TLDs to anyone who is willing to pay the upfront costs. People have pointed out this means that whoever buys a gTLD becomes the ultimate registrar for it, and can sell domains in whatever way they like underneath said TLD. This could change the game significantly...

      you can build up your own arsenal to the point that they obviously won't stand a chance (ex: the USA's stockpiles of nuclear weapons and such) -- which is analogous to improving filtering in the hopes that eventually spam will become unprofitable

      The problem with that logic is at the end of the statement. No amount of filtering will effectively make spam unprofitable, at least not without consequences for legitimate email. The spammers constantly find new ways to get around filters, and filter have to be retrained to handle it. Eventually, the spammers will win when they manage to get their spam to look enough like regular email that the false positive rate of spam filtering reaches unacceptable levels and filtering has to stop being retrained.

      Or you can sabotage/destroy their capacity to defend themselves -- analogous to the approach you propose.

      The advantage of my proposal - on top of the fact that a group at Georgia Tech showed some time ago that it actually does work and have real benefits - is that it directly targets the spammers and benefits all the legitimate email (and non-spamming users of the internet). Spam filtering cannot claim that.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  37. power by NoNsense · · Score: 1

    I'm in the DC industry, we pay for 100% of the power we use, so we only use what we need. True we have to keep the lights on, the servers on, the cooling, and the rest of the support equipment. There are efficiencies lost in power conversion and everything else. We cannot control the idling servers -- that's what virtualization does, it helps move the loads to a common machine and eliminates waste. I get what the article is saying, but a DC normally can't control the customers processing.

    --
    So there.
  38. Planning for peak is not waste by fikx · · Score: 1

    My first thought when I saw the post was: "bean counters strike again: Look at the wasted resources that aren't used all the time!"
    having extra capacity to handle peak usage is not waste. Never will be. Making sure the extra capacity is efficient is another question, maybe the article linked talks about that, but I always get riled up when someone sees idle capacity and calls it waste.

    --
    AB HOC POSSUM VIDERE DOMUM TUUM
  39. So...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OK, so they're wasting power. What is it that the NY Times wants me to do? Stop using these companies' services? Get my green on, and start complaining about the effect on the planet?

    All these websites are free--I'm not paying for what they waste. I'm not investing in them. If they want to waste power, that's their poor cost-management. It seems like a no-brainer to look at where money is being wasted and try to fix that.

    We're not short on electricity and having power outages all the time. And again, they're paying for the power. What should we do if they were twice as efficient? Shut down 15 nuclear plants?

    Really though, I would like to see more server-side processing and a lot less flash. I'm tired of websites (news sites being the worst offenders) that have 20 flash ads, especially the ones that tie up way too much CPU time for something like a button...that opens a link. Or a mouseover. No idea how many useless conditional statements and random loops are going on there.

    Also, NY Times is writing about how bad data centers are, when a huge fraction their business is dependent on these data centers being always available so people can get breaking news from them.

    1. Re:So...? by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      OK, so they're wasting power. What is it that the NY Times wants me to do?

      Buy VMware products, and pretend that you can keep half of the datacenter off, then get paged, drive to the data center, manually activate hundreds of servers, and "transparently" move running instances of your servers, still connecting to the users waiting responses, to those servers. Then wait there, so you can reverse this once users are not requesting as much.

      Yes, it's exactly as stupid as it sounds.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  40. Resource allocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The normal way of allocating resources is simply by cost/ benefit. When the cost of powering idle servers is greater than the loss of customers due to latency problems, providers will cut back. Why make things more complex then that. Incidentally the electric power providers have far worse problems building capacity for peak loads.
    Perhaps those of you who fear nuclear power should advocate washing clothes at night. That might reduce peak loads more that data center schedule changes.

  41. set_error_handler by tepples · · Score: 1

    A minor typo in PHP and you won't get so much as a warning

    Even if you set an error handler that converts all errors to ErrorException?

  42. I agree completely, but it's still a hack by dbIII · · Score: 1

    Virtual machines - working around the limitations of operating systems that cannot effectively do a few tasks at once.
    There is also the security aspect of having Chinese walls between things on the same system, but it was initially as accidental as NAT stopping people getting in, and despite a lot of work to avoid exploits it's not really any better than some of the solutions within an OS.

  43. I call shenannigans, by drwho · · Score: 1

    so, that would be like a million servers, maxing out their 300 watt power supplies for every second of every day? Hrm, sounds a bit unlikely. Well, okay, figure it consumes about just as much power to cool as the server consumes, since it is (in theory) not putting any chemicals into high chemical potential...well, yes, then there's the inefficiency of air conditioning, offset by the natural cooling by fans and heat sinks (of buildings, not servers). Still that's a lot of power. I know that cisco gear has no concern for one's electrical bill and that the old Sun servers did live up to their name in some ways by pumping out heat...but still....

    You know, there's this whole country Iceland with lots of cheap electric power and natural cooling, that doesn't consume any fossil fuels to produce it. Maybe we could put some servers there?

    1. Re:I call shenannigans, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "so, that would be like a million servers, maxing out their 300 watt power supplies"

      Servers tend to have much larger power supplies than 300W.

      A million servers sounds like a very low estimate for Google's world-wide data center total.

    2. Re:I call shenannigans, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not the first person to consider putting data centers in Iceland: http://facilitygateway.com/news/?p=1342, but there are problems inherent in sticking your servers 800 miles from the mainland.

      dom

  44. 4 ways to consume less resources by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. Implement orchestrated Virtualization and Paravirtualization where security, regulatory and other compliance requirements allow... but only duplicate kernels and guest operating systems where it makes sense. (i.e. Eucalyptus, OpenStack, Xen, KVM, LXC).

    2. Persist data separately from compute resources in order to reduce idle CPU and disk. (i.e. S3, Walrus, Swift, GlusterFS, ZFS, Ceph).

    3. Make hardware improvements... perhaps using solid state drives (where higher I/O is demanded) or using un-cabinetted server grid technologies such as OpenCompute to improve air flow and reduce cooling costs.

    4. Provide self-service dashboards and APIs for elastic provisioning of resources that can be monitored by IT service managers or resource brokers as well as the user who is consuming these resources and offer incentives for intelligent resource consumption.

    - Asher Bond
    Elastic Provisioner, Inc.

  45. NYT and another dirty secret by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The NYT's whole business model is based on exposing dirty little secrets that sell column inches of newsprint and ad space.

    If they had been reading IT/Web technology papers or /. articles they would have seen the ones regarding Facebook and the open source & open hardware models being developed. Not to mention the wildly inventive things Google has done over the years, which we only find out about when they have already moved onto the next phase.

    Others have said it regarding the basic method of calculating service level versus service maximums yet the NYT still doesn't get it. Of course, buying the digital version of their product is more expensive then the print. Yep, they got all that technology stuff figured the heck out. 'Cause that's what they do there in NYC. Figure things out. And sell ads.

  46. Small wonder why LFTR technology being revived. by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

    I've talked in the past on why liquid fluoride thorium reactor (LFTR) should be the immediate future of nuclear power generation.

    Here's one thing I haven't mentioned: LFTR's can be scaled down to 50-80 MW powerplants which are amazingly small and require very little real estate to operate one. Because of its very small size, an 80 MW LFTR could be almost near the site of the big server farm itself, and that could mean the server farm doesn't need a land-wasting big solar power farm nearby or have to be located in an area with a lot of power generating capacity (what few people know is that Apple located in server farm in North Carolina because there are plentiful coal-fired power plants generating a lot of power in that state, which means Apple can continue to operate the server farm in case there are problems with the solar power farm).

  47. Overheated Ethernet sockets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Has anyone actually ever seen an overheated Ethernet socket?

  48. apple's server farm going green by colonel+spalding · · Score: 1

    Isn't Apple's server farm in NC going to be mostly solar and all green? Certainly a good precident.