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Apple Reportedly Luring Ex-Google Mappers With Jobs

Posted by timothy on from the cash-grass-or-apps dept.

TechCrunch reports that Apple, facing a substantial backlash (and some snarky competitive advertising) over goofs in the mapping software included in iOS 6, is going after the problem with a hiring spree. Here's TechCrunch's lead: "Apple is going after people with experience working on Google Maps to develop its own product, according to a source with connections on both teams. Using recruiters, Apple is pursuing a strategy of luring away Google Maps employees who helped develop the search giant’s product on contract, and many of those individuals seem eager to accept due in part to the opportunity Apple represents to build new product, instead of just doing 'tedious updates' on a largely complete platform." Meanwhile, writes reader EGSonikku "Well known iOS hacker Ryan Perrich has gotten the iOS5 Google Maps application to run on iOS6 using 'a little trickery.' (YouTube demonstration.) He has not released it yet due to crashing issues but states 'it mostly works.'"

33 of 334 comments (clear)

  1. Hiring ex google employees? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's innovative ...

  2. Not really a news story by Dyinobal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't really see how this is a news story. I mean it makes completely sense to try and lure away experienced professionals away from another company on a similar project.

    1. Re:Not really a news story by Tough+Love · · Score: 5, Insightful

      it makes completely sense to try and lure away experienced professionals away from another company on a similar project.

      The story is that a company known for boasting about its innovation prowess and suing the rest of the industry over imitation is doing this.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    2. Re:Not really a news story by tysonedwards · · Score: 5, Informative

      Typically, contractors are exempt from such agreements as it would violate their ability to seek gainful employment upon completion of their agreement with the original company.

      Non-Compete Agreements are intended to protect trade secrets from being shared with a third party while the content of them would be reasonably considered still valid.

      If Apple were attempting to attract current, full-time employees than the Non-Compete argument still applies as long as it's content reasonably enables them to continue to seek gainful employment to which they are qualified.

      --
      Thirty four characters live here.
    3. Re:Not really a news story by Guy+Harris · · Score: 4, Informative

      Of course it does, which is why most companies make you sign non-compete agreements when they hire you. I'm not sure of California's rules on non-competes

      At least as of 2008, they had no legal standing, with some narrow exceptions (Edwards v. Arthur Anderson LLP).

    4. Re:Not really a news story by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Funny

      ianal, but ...

      I've found these sorts of posts much more amusing now that I mentally make the substitution "ianal" -> "I'm anal".

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    5. Re:Not really a news story by leromarinvit · · Score: 4, Funny

      In case of Apple stories, shouldn't it rather be iAnal?

      --
      Proud member of the Ferengi Socialist Party.
  3. This. by Tastecicles · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's not like they don't need help...

    --
    Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    1. Re:This. by exomondo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Between that, the stupid 'card view' app store layout, music app problems, wifi login issues and the battery life, iOS Vista really needs some work to get it up to scratch.

    2. Re:This. by ifiwereasculptor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I see this kind of comparison a lot, so I'll help you understand how it works: Apple bashing gets modded up because of patent lawsuits, high prices, abused workers at third-world manufacturing plants, common or old features being touted as crazy innovations and all of the above combined with gigantic lines for their products, which implies their typical customer's perceived affinity with technology. Google bashing, on the other hand, is often modded down because it happens mostly on comments pertaining to Apple stories. Which means they are probably flamebait and certainly offtopic, thus the rightful moderation. Your example fits nicely. On the other hand, on stories about either Google, privacy concerns or driverless cars, Google bashing is often modded up, so if that's what you fell like doing, lurk for a while and select your stories with more care in the future.

      On a related note, X fans will always think that X's competitor Y is being given an unfair advantage, so a wiser approach would be to just let it go.

    3. Re:This. by Smurf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not like they don't need help...

      Actually, a good chunk of those funny blunders falls into the third of these categories of problems with Apple's iOS 6 Maps:

      1. 1. Functionality that was there in the old (Google Maps-based) version, and that was lost in the new one.
      2. 2. Errors due to outdated or incomplete information, which conduces to bad navigation directions, misplaced locations, and other funny results. (That is, funny if you are not depending on the feature).
      3. 3. Errors in rendering of certain features (Hoover Dam, Eiffel Tower) which can be quite hilarious.

      The first category includes things like directions for public transportation, pedestrians, and bike trails, as well a more robust search system, but it doesn't produce funny errors, they don't get pointed out very often.

      The second category makes a good chunk of the hilarity, but it's something that Apple will (slowly) correct as they refine their databases. Google has many years of headstart here, so it's no wonder their database is in much better shape.

      The third category is the one that produces the most hilarious errors but... well, it turns out that it reflects artifacts in the renderings produced by the flyover feature, a feature that AFAIK is not really part of Google Maps, and thus the criticism is rather silly!

      Yes, Google has similar flyovers in Google Earth, but that's a separate product. Furthermore, Google Earth is plagued by similar errors in rendering. Examples:
      In Google Earth, go to this location in Houston: 29.713347 -95.382174, and follow the bayou (river) as it goes West and South-west towards the Texas Medical Center. See how all those bridges appear to sink to the level of the water? A similar example can be found in Philadelphia: 39.958905 -75.180871.

      tl;dr My point is: The 3D rendering errors are funny but not exclusive to Apple. The inaccurate database is easy to fix, but will take time. The missing features are the real problem and we don't know if Apple even intends to add them.

  4. I thought he died by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 5, Funny

    Apple Reportedly Luring Ex-Google Mappers With Jobs

    What did they do, prop him up and pull a string wrapped around his wrist to beckon them over?

    Sorry. I need sleep. Or help.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  5. Data by Dan+East · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Apple's problem is primarily with the data, not the actual mapping application. Considering how deep Apple's pockets are, I'm really surprised they weren't able to license a better / larger set of GIS data. There are number of competing mapping companies out there, so I have a hard time believing that, given enough money, one of them wouldn't have provided Apple with what they needed.

    Now as for the actual application, I believe Apple's map application is superior to Google's in a number of ways. I've always preferred vector / real-time drawn maps over pre-rendered tiled raster maps (which is what Google's are).

    So as for Google maps, why hasn't Google released a stand alone app yet? After all, that's all Google Maps are with Android is an app on the marketplace. Is Apple blocking Google, or is Google (perhaps wisely) letting Apple go it alone for a bit so people will miss the functionality Google provided, then they can step in and save the day (before Apple has a chance to improve their product enough)?

    --
    Better known as 318230.
    1. Re:Data by QilessQi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I respectfully disagree that the primary problem is the data. Have you seen the comparisons of Apple's "virtual flyover" with Google's "street view"? Flyover looks nice for certain scenes, but others are full of bizarre Dali-esque digital artifacts and distortions.

      Give me real photos from street level, any day.

      --
      Koans and fables for the software engineer
    2. Re:Data by De+Lemming · · Score: 5, Informative

      Google has a maps app ready, and it's already submitted to Apple. The only thing holding it back is Apple approving it. So that may be next week, in a year (like they did with Google Voice) or never (under the "duplicates a native service" rule).

      Sources:
      http://9to5mac.com/2012/09/20/google-has-an-ios-6-maps-app-awaiting-approval-it-is-solely-up-to-apple-to-approve/
      http://mashable.com/2012/09/20/google-maps-ios-6-apple-approval-report/

  6. Smart Move by stephanruby · · Score: 5, Funny

    At least with Google employees, Apple won't need to email them a pdf map of their office location.

  7. Re:No thanks by Nerdfest · · Score: 4, Funny

    Come on, think of the awesome sales pitch these guys are getting. "Don 't be Evil"? Screw that. Come to the dark side. You have no idea of the full financial advantage of the dark side. Watch those that believe in open standards tremble at your feet.

  8. iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't use Apple products, so maybe this isn't as surprising to others as it is to me, but why the fuck can't an app that ran fine on iOS 5 also run fine on iOS 6? Why is "a little trickery" needed, and even then there are still issues?

    Furthermore, wasn't iOS 5 only released to the public in October of 2011? I mean, that wasn't even a single year ago! Is smartphone and tablet crap shat out so rapidly that backward compatibility can't be retained even after only 11 months?

    How is it that Microsoft, who aren't exactly known for creating the most robust software, can maintain backward compatibility with operating systems released decades ago, but Apple (also a very well-funded company, with access to basically any talent they need) can't even manage to retain compatibility with a system released not even a year ago?

    1. Re:iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Maps is a core OS app, like Safari or Mail, and as such it gets used by other applications. It only gets updated when the OS gets updated.

      Google reportedly has plans to release their own Maps application. This seems to be more about licensing then about compatibility. It's entirely possible this wasn't solely Apple's doing, but very well could've been due to Google's.

    2. Re:iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? by king+neckbeard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I suspect it's not a technical problem, but rather, a we-hate-google problem. As for why you need trickery to run it, it's probably related to the software being default software that was removed with the update.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    3. Re:iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? by PixetaledPikachu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't use Apple products, so maybe this isn't as surprising to others as it is to me, but why the fuck can't an app that ran fine on iOS 5 also run fine on iOS 6? Why is "a little trickery" needed, and even then there are still issues?

      Furthermore, wasn't iOS 5 only released to the public in October of 2011? I mean, that wasn't even a single year ago! Is smartphone and tablet crap shat out so rapidly that backward compatibility can't be retained even after only 11 months?

      How is it that Microsoft, who aren't exactly known for creating the most robust software, can maintain backward compatibility with operating systems released decades ago, but Apple (also a very well-funded company, with access to basically any talent they need) can't even manage to retain compatibility with a system released not even a year ago?

      this has nothing to do with backward compatibility, this is a solid case of "I don't want to pay you for features that my customers need, and I can't provide decent replacement, but my users will buy my stuff anyway, so why bother"

    4. Re:iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? by NameIsDavid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      this has nothing to do with backward compatibility, this is a solid case of "I don't want to pay you for features that my customers need, and I can't provide decent replacement, but my users will buy my stuff anyway, so why bother"

      No, it has to do with Google putting restrictions on the use of map data, including not allowing turn-by-turn navigation. Apple knew that it couldn't have a core feature of its product permanently beholden to a competitor and the restrictions it might impose down the line. So, realizing that bringing maps in-house would not get any easier down the line, it decided to rip off the band-aid now. Every other smartphone platform has done the same. Microsoft uses its own maps. Nokia owns Navteq and Google we all know about.

    5. Re:iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What I meant is that if that is really the case Apple should have taken the necessary time or invested the necessary amount of resources to have a good alternative solution. I highly doubt that Google's terms were anywhere as bad as you describe, though. Google has a long history of allowing other to license the use of its technologies, unlike Apple.

      I think that Apple has long adhered to the Agile Software Development concept of committing 'just enough' development resources to a product to implement 'just enough' features to make that product a viable choice for people to buy. You can see this in earlier releases of the iPhone OS where they left out a long list of features like 'copy/paste', 'mark mail as read' and a whole lot of other small and small-ish features who then crept into later releases. People voted with their wallets and bought their iPhones anyway because the feature set was still complete enough to make the devices interesting. This time Apple simply underestimated what 'just enough' is when it comes to mapping applications. Apple also seriously underestimated just how much people use maps on their smart-phones. I think Apple's mad scramble to hire people with cartographic experience makes this obvious. Unfortunately for them Apple will not be able to catch up with Google Maps unless they shell out a significant proportion of their vast cash reserve, which I hope they do since I applaud any serous competition Google gets.

      --
      Only to idiots, are orders laws.
      -- Henning von Tresckow
  9. Whatever happened to, "It just works?" by bogaboga · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I thought Apple never did wrong because every pundit was detailing its so called, "attention to detail...". So what happened?

    One did not need elementary school education to realise that its maps iteration was not just crazy, but it was just bizzare, showed incompetence and was taken as a reckless joke by many of us.

    So again, what hapened to, "It just works?"

  10. Re:Honestly... by should_be_linear · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sometimes I look at comments everywhere and it seems as if people would be totally happy to see nothing but Google and Android everywhere.

    If Apple and Microsoft PR departments only thought about all consequences of suing people around and behaving unethically in all cases where ethics remotely mattered ... You cannot expect /. crowd to forget in weeks what is their default corporate behavior.

    --
    839*929
  11. Re:No thanks by ifiwereasculptor · · Score: 4, Funny

    You're thinking of Dead Steve. Zombie Steve is still at Microsoft.

  12. Re:No thanks by maccodemonkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Come on, think of the awesome sales pitch these guys are getting. "Don 't be Evil"? Screw that. Come to the dark side. You have no idea of the full financial advantage of the dark side. Watch those that believe in open standards tremble at your feet.

    Yes, because Google Maps is such an open standard. /s

  13. Re:What Happened by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Informative

    Search is completely broken. Completely.

    I use map search a couple times a day. I've been using Apple maps for a month, including a drive from New Jersey to Los Angeles. It has only failed to find what I was looking for a few times over that period, for me on par with Google (which sometimes cannot find things that should be easy). Google has decided what I want is really in China on more than one occasion... so I would not say Apple search is totally broken. It seems some areas are worse than others.

    I wonder how many of the items not being found in Apple maps are people not typing in very specific search terms. That's where Apple really needs to improve, is on search term parsing. Although even there some general terms like "food" seem to work just fine.

    You are reporting the map errors you see right? That's the only way things get better, and if Apple gets a lot of reports from a region perhaps they can figure out why their dataset is so out of whack for that location.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  14. Re:frist psot! by gnasher719 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    what would apple do if samsung did this to them? what would the courts reactions be?

    Excuse me? You realise that at some point Apple, Google and others had agreements not to headhunt each other's employees, and _have been told by courts that such an agreement is illegal_?

    Hiring Google ex-employees and even more hiring Google employees is something that Apple is _expected_ to do by Californian law. Free market. Free choice of employees to work for whoever pays most.

  15. Re:No thanks by feedayeen · · Score: 5, Informative

    Yes, because Google Maps is such an open standard. /s

    They provide access to their API, anyone can freely integrate it into their software, websites, or Android apps and even insert their own maps.

    https://developers.google.com/maps/

  16. Re:No thanks by maccodemonkey · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, because Google Maps is such an open standard. /s

    They provide access to their API, anyone can freely integrate it into their software, websites, or Android apps and even insert their own maps.

    https://developers.google.com/maps/

    Misleading, at best.

    Google charges you if you go over a certain number of users:
    http://searchenginewatch.com/article/2122151/Google-Maps-API-to-Charge-for-High-Volume-Usage

    If you want access to map tiles, you simply can't get them, and Google will send their lawyers after you if you reverse engineer.

    At least with Apple maps commercial use is free. And Bing will let you license the raw map tiles and provide you with an API to get them.)

    (Citation: I've worked on software that implemented Maps from scratch and tried to license from Google. Google also made the news recently when they raised their rates: )

  17. Re:No thanks by maccodemonkey · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'd believe Florian Mueller and Steve Jobs when he was alive before I'd believe searchenginewatch.

    Google work for you?
    https://developers.google.com/maps/faq#usagelimits

  18. the new HQ looks like an asshole from space, too by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Funny

    but why the fuck can't an app that ran fine on iOS 5 also run fine on iOS 6?

    Apple to Customer: "You know that mapping app everybody uses? The one that's practically the most popular iOS app? The one that works so well? You can't use that any more."

    Customer: "Why not?"

    Apple to Customer: "Fuck you, that's why not. Now get back in line. And by the way, did you know that you prefer the walled garden because it provides a more seamless end-user experience? Now repeat that after me: "I prefer the walled garden because...""

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.