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Microsoft Pollutes To Avoid Fines

An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft's Quincy data center, physical home of Bing and Hotmail, was fined $210,000 last year because the data center used too little electricity. To avoid similar penalties for 'underconsumption of electricity' this year, the data center burned through $70,000 worth of electricity in three days."

25 of 295 comments (clear)

  1. Wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    You get fined for saving electricity now?
    Where is this world going...

    1. Re:Wait, what? by GigaplexNZ · · Score: 4, Informative

      Windows 8 doesn't require a Microsoft email account. It merely highly recommends a Microsoft account that doesn't have to be tied to Microsoft email services (mine is tied to GMail). You're still welcome to use a local account and skip the cloud features of Windows 8.

    2. Re:Wait, what? by El+Puerco+Loco · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, what kind of sneaky company would ever write it's contracts in such a way that you have to pay for their product whether you use it or not?

    3. Re:Wait, what? by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 4, Funny

      You know that making shit up and putting "probably" in front of it doesn't make it correct, right?

      Probably not.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
  2. stupid inaccurate title as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    It was a perfectly sane response to the situation, and btw the generation is from hydro so really what added pollution was there?
     

    1. Re:stupid inaccurate title as usual by icebike · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Title there is ONLY because it was Microsoft.
      Any other company, and it would go unnoticed.

      Why wasn't the Washington state utility board dragged thru the mud on this one instead of a company acting responsibly to reduce energy consumption?

      --
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    2. Re:stupid inaccurate title as usual by rgbrenner · · Score: 5, Informative

      Microsoft signed an agreement to use X amount of electricity, almost certainly to get a lower price per kwh. They then used/purchased less electricity than they agreed to, and no longer qualified for the discount (hence the 210k "fine").

      What's the problem here?

      Can I get the same agreement for my home? I "promise" I'll use 1 billion kwh/month. Same pricing if I don't though.. right?

    3. Re:stupid inaccurate title as usual by Your.Master · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is that there isn't a rational basis for not just allowing Microsoft to pay for $70k in power and not use it -- donate it for free back to the energy company, if you will. They have to actually waste the electricity to get lower prices. This situation isn't good for anybody.

      - The environment loses because, although this utility is a hydro source, energy is fungible and it's likely that a fossil plant had to make up the difference somewhere in the grid. I could be wrong, it's possible it would just have been dissipated (or just not extracted from the plant in the first place).
      - The utility loses out on $140k.
      - Microsoft has to burn a bunch of energy to no end.

      In this round, Microsoft got off easiest. Last round, the utility got off easiest. But there's no effective difference between this and Microsoft paying $70k and *not* consuming that power, except that the utility potentially can sell $70k of power elsewhere, which is actually good for them, or at worst, non-bad. Why is that not happening?

    4. Re:stupid inaccurate title as usual by Your.Master · · Score: 5, Informative

      And actually, according to this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/24/technology/data-centers-in-rural-washington-state-gobble-power.html?pagewanted=all&_moc.semityn.www

      That's the same argument Microsoft made. The utility company tried to call their bluff, Microsoft wasn't bluffing so they started their heaters, and the utility company folded.

    5. Re:stupid inaccurate title as usual by icebike · · Score: 4, Informative

      Wanapum Dam is not the only supplier of power to Washington State:

      Bonneville Dam provides a significant amount of power to the Pacific Northwest and they are a federal agency.

      Sigh.....

      Wanapum Dam is the only dam owned by Grant County Public Utility District.
      Grant County PUD is the ONLY power company selling power to Microsoft's Quincy Data Center.
      It is the ONLY dam germane to this story.

      Would you like to throw out any other unrelated facts while you are on a role here?

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  3. This is not a Microsoft issue by Jailbrekr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is an issue with a utility company. The fact that it was Microsoft is a red herring. If anything, utilities should have a pricing structure that punishes overconsumption and rewards under-consumption. In this instance the utility is ass backwards and they should be the ones who are shamed.

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    1. Re:This is not a Microsoft issue by queazocotal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Infrastructure costs money to put in.
      If you need signisicant extra infrastructure put in for your use, the normal pricing structure is likely to assume that you will use it, not simply (as a data centre might) leave it idle unless other power fails.

      The real fail is that Microsoft failed to negotiate a proper contract to avoid the needless waste of resource.

    2. Re:This is not a Microsoft issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The utility companies have no incentive at all to punish overconsumption. They make more money that way.

      They have very good reasons to punish underconsumption....if you don't buy enough from them they have trouble covering their costs.

      That is why electricity costs always go *up* during economic recessions....people scale back their use and so the companies have to charge more to maintain the same levels of profitability.

      And the utilities can get away with this because they are natural monopolies.

    3. Re:This is not a Microsoft issue by Mashiki · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There's an easy answer. They could simply build some wind mills or slap in some solar panels and then have the utility pay them at 30-80c/Kwh via a FiT(feed in tariff) like we do here in Ontario for green energy. I'm sure that it would all balance out in time.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  4. How? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 5, Funny

    To avoid similar penalties for 'underconsumption of electricity' this year, the data center burned through $70,000 worth of electricity in three days.

    What'd they do, shift all the load to AMD servers?

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  5. PPA's by ArhcAngel · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Basically large companies need to know what their costs are going to be long term. They enter in to Power Purchasing Agreements with electricity generators much like leasing a building. Based on these agreements the electricity generator knows what is expected of it's power plants and maintains them to meet these requirements. If demand is lower than expected they may have to shut down a plant or two since there isn't an economical way to store electricity on such a large scale. It costs a lot of money to shut down one of these facilities and even more to ramp back up. Rather than eat these costs many PPA's include penalties that will cover these contingencies. Since I'm tl;dr the article I don't know if that's what happened here but it makes sense that if Microsoft overestimated it's power needs on its PPA then these fines would have been to cover the plants down time. Since another comment mentioned hydro generation I'm guessing Microsoft running inefficient on purpose to avoid the fines didn't hurt the environment too much.

    --
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    1. Re:PPA's by ewanm89 · · Score: 5, Informative

      There is a an economical way to store large amounts of electricity though, it's called pumped storage plant, basically it's a hydroelectric plant where the generators and turbines can be used in reverse to pump water back up to the top reservoir, then when needed it's released again to get electricity again. Turning a mountain into a very big gravity powered rechargeable battery.

    2. Re:PPA's by Darinbob · · Score: 4, Informative

      Utilities make money by selling electricity, it's typically in their best interest to encourage more energy use. California and some other states have "decoupled" the revenue to try and fix this. Utilities are given fixed pricing; if the customers use less electricity then the utilities pocket the difference, if the customers use more electricity the utility loses money. Now it's an economic incentive to encourage customers to conserve, get rid of inefficient power generators, improve the distribution and transmission infrastructure, etc.

    3. Re:PPA's by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well then nobody should bitch when ANY company, be it MSFT or fricking Toys R' Us, blows through power just to keep from getting fined. If the cost of blowing through the power is less than the fine, which thanks to the agreement it most certainly is? Then they would be dumb NOT to blow through the power, and would get called to the carpet for blowing shareholder's money by taking fines over meeting their end of the agreement.

      But I'm sure just as the article's flamebait headline suggests its just another excuse for clickbait. if people have a problem with this? then they should outlaw those agreements.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    4. Re:PPA's by Immerman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Since folks seem to be listing their favorite emerging high-capacity energy storage technologies here I'll add my own - liquid metal batteries. Batteries the size of shipping containers containing the three layers of molten materials: a metal base, a lighter electrolyte, and an even lighter metal "cap". Since the electrodes are liquid they don't suffer from the degradation that eventually renders normal batteries ineffective. And as long as they're seeing heavy enough usage the internal resistance provides enough heat to keep everything molten, and the potential charging/dischargeing current is pretty phenomenal since you don't have to worry about destroying your electrodes in the process..

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  6. Typical Slashdot title by bi$hop · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have a love/hate relationship with Slashdot. One thing is for sure: I'm tired of all the *nix fan boys who find every possible way to smear Microsoft. Here are a few alternative titles, just to irk the haters:

    "Microsoft wisely saves $140,000 by simply using electricity."

    "Microsoft deliberately uses electricity to avoid ridiculous fine."

    "Microsoft forces utility board to reduce ludicrous fine by $10,000."

    "Microsoft exposes power company's pollution-inducing practices."

  7. An even more economical way to store electricity by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Pumped storage plant has been used since the 1960's, but it does require a dam.

    On places where there is no dam, this method can not be deployed.

    However, technological advancement has enabled us another way - by using ultra-capacitors.

    http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/piprod/documents/Session_D_Miller_rev.pdf

    Advancement on capacitor technology resulted in capacitors that can store HUGE amount of electricity for a LONG time, with miniscule loss.

    And many are being deployed in power grids - not only as a power storage but also acting as a power stabilizer - the ultra-capacitor can "soak up" power spikes and release power during "brown outs".

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  8. Re:Load contracts by jrumney · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually, after RTFA, the real problem seems to be that Microsoft spent too long running off its emergency diesel generators - 100 times as long as its neighbour Yahoo (which was also fined for underestimation of use, and paid up without resorting to these sort of tactics). And it seems that Microsoft did not waste $70k worth of power, they threatened to do so, and even started to do so to make it clear that they were prepared to carry the threat out, but the utility settled for reducing the fine to $60k, and Microsoft called off the wastage.

  9. Re:An even more economical way to store electricit by GrpA · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I take it then you've never heard of compressed-air power storage?

    Same principle as with dams, except very large air tanks are used. Scroll compressors and turbines make it possible the most efficient way of storing excess power as well, and the system is near-zero maintenance, unlike batteries. Demand response is also good and the most useful thing about this system is that it scales down to tiny installations - to the point that it could be used to save power from solar during the day for overnight use.

    GrpA

    --
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  10. Re:An even more economical way to store electricit by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 4, Informative

    There are not more than 8 factories that I know of, that are producing industrial-grade ultra-capacitors, that are to be deployed for the purpose of power-storage / power-stabilizing, near power generating plants and also in the power grid.

    And all the factories are churning out ultra-capacitors as fast as they can.

    But it is not enough.

    That is why it will take some time for more ultra-capacitors to show up in places that need them.

    The bottle-neck is with the manufacturers.

    The main patent for the ultra-capacitors is owned by Sanyo, of Japan.

    They were actually trying to find ways to develop an ultra-capacity rechargeable battery. They came up with the idea of using nano-scale materials (that was back in the late 1990's or so) and successfully produced a re-chargeable NiMH battery that can keep the charge for as long as 36 months, and at 97% capacity.

    That patent was subsequently licensed to other re-chargeable battery manufacturers - including GP and Energizer.

    And later, someone found that the same technique can be also used in enhancing ultra-capacitors, so they licensed it to capacitor manufacturers.

    However, the industrial grade capacitor manufacturers in this planet that we live in happen to behave much like OPEC.

    There are only few manufacturers and they control the market, and they restrict the manufacturing to only a handful factories - so that they can charge an arm and a leg for their products.

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